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Old 2007-11-04, 10:24   Link #21
quashoko
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Not every one is a genius like sasuke, itachi, pein, e.t.c. and not everyone cab train like naruto so not every one will be able to master all elements.

But if every one could use all elements easily, why would it be lame? We will get to see more different elemental jutsu.
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Old 2007-11-04, 20:25   Link #22
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No, it would be horrible. Because then there's no "fighting against the odds".
"I use earth!"
"Oh, then I use lightning!"
"Oh, then let me switch to wind, hah!"
"Fire!"
"Water!"
"CAPTAIN PLANET!"

-_-
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Old 2007-11-04, 21:49   Link #23
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Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
No, it would be horrible. Because then there's no "fighting against the odds".
"I use earth!"
"Oh, then I use lightning!"
"Oh, then let me switch to wind, hah!"
"Fire!"
"Water!"
"CAPTAIN PLANET!"

-_-
That was funny...you forgot the element of "Love"...

Either way, given Kakashi Handles 2 Elements outside his original affinity, I don't see a reason why a skilled Shinoby could not handle the 5 of them.

I see it that having the affinity of an element is you can handle say element to its full potential, while any other elements can be used as secondary choices of Jutsus, in this case you don't find yourself in that type of loop of everyone pulling out the correct counter.
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Old 2007-11-05, 20:31   Link #24
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Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
As said one post earlier. If it was the case, then why would Yamato emphasize to Naruto so much that he's lucky to be wind in order to counter Sasuke's raiton.

And after explaining his Fuuton would improve Sasuke's Katon, why not -if it can be taught- just teach him water elements, since it seems to be achievable in a few weeks thanks to KB?

Because it can't be taught.
Well the difference is that a person cannot have both affinities naturally(unless it's a BL), but can learn to use another element. So it's probably better in explaining if we separate natural affinity from just being able to use another element.

Lets say Naruto's affinity is wind and Sasukes is fire. So Naruto will naturally be stronger in the use of wind, because it comes naturally to him, whereas Sasuke's strength lies more with fire and therefore he'll be stronger in that area. It makes sense than to use the areas where you'll gain the greatest amount of power with the greatest amount of ease. So learning other elements and to use them would not be easy, but rather it probably would take longer and put more strain to use.

Since Naruto's affinity is stronger than Sasuke's than it makes sense for Naruto to use more wind. This does not nec. mean that he only has to use wind, but he should pick techniques which will be more effecient. In other words he can learn other techniques to maybe surprise an opponenet, but if he soley concentrated on techniques that he cannot naturally use than those techniques are just watered down version than if the person could use those elements naturally.

Now I believe that it was mentioned compining two elements would become a BL, therefore since FR is formed by putting some wind element into normal rasengan than adding water to it would actually become a BL.

Therefore IMO it makes perfect sense that Yamato would say something like that, because he knows Sasuke will put emphasis on his strengths.
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Old 2007-11-06, 02:12   Link #25
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Originally Posted by tkdtiger View Post
Now I believe that it was mentioned compining two elements would become a BL, therefore since FR is formed by putting some wind element into normal rasengan than adding water to it would actually become a BL.
Combining two elements to create a NEW element would be a bloodline, but otherwise it would just result in the kind of attack that Naruto and Yamato combo-ed on.
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Old 2007-11-06, 06:25   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkdtiger View Post
Well the difference is that a person cannot have both affinities naturally(unless it's a BL), but can learn to use another element. So it's probably better in explaining if we separate natural affinity from just being able to use another element.

Lets say Naruto's affinity is wind and Sasukes is fire. So Naruto will naturally be stronger in the use of wind, because it comes naturally to him, whereas Sasuke's strength lies more with fire and therefore he'll be stronger in that area. It makes sense than to use the areas where you'll gain the greatest amount of power with the greatest amount of ease. So learning other elements and to use them would not be easy, but rather it probably would take longer and put more strain to use.

Since Naruto's affinity is stronger than Sasuke's than it makes sense for Naruto to use more wind. This does not nec. mean that he only has to use wind, but he should pick techniques which will be more effecient. In other words he can learn other techniques to maybe surprise an opponenet, but if he soley concentrated on techniques that he cannot naturally use than those techniques are just watered down version than if the person could use those elements naturally.

Now I believe that it was mentioned compining two elements would become a BL, therefore since FR is formed by putting some wind element into normal rasengan than adding water to it would actually become a BL.

Therefore IMO it makes perfect sense that Yamato would say something like that, because he knows Sasuke will put emphasis on his strengths.
I don't get it. You're just further proving my point here.

Fire > Wind.

If Sasuke's "Main" affinity is fire, and Naruto's "main" affinity is wind, then the Fire will just be even stronger.

As in, you're telling me Yamato taught Naruto's wind and then instead of training him in water, is going to let his main affinity become even more dangerous to him?

Doesn't make sense.
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Old 2007-11-06, 06:43   Link #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
As said one post earlier. If it was the case, then why would Yamato emphasize to Naruto so much that he's lucky to be wind in order to counter Sasuke's raiton.

And after explaining his Fuuton would improve Sasuke's Katon, why not -if it can be taught- just teach him water elements, since it seems to be achievable in a few weeks thanks to KB?

Because it can't be taught.
Just wanted to point out that here you seem to be contradicting yourself, pointing out that Sasuke's natural affinity is Katon, but he knows a Raiton technique. This being the case, your argument is that Sasuke was born with an affinity for Raiton as well as Katon, and so he was able to learn Raikiri. This seems questionable at best, considering he'd been practicing Katon jutsu since he was very little, and only focused on Raiton after training with Kakashi. Also, everyone has discussed how the Uchiha clan was the most talented in the ways of Katon jutsu. No one has ever discussed any Uchiha with an affinity for Raiton, which suggests that either: A) Sasuke learned this elemental technique fresh, or B) Sasuke is the first and only Uchiha born with two elemental affinities. I'm not saying that there wasn't some Uchiha born with a Raiton affinity, and since they were murdered we might never know, but it seems silly that such a great emphasis would be placed on their Katon affinity with absolutely no mention of other affinities. I'd think that, if other affinities circulated amongst the Uchiha, someone would have surely said something by now.
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Old 2007-11-06, 11:36   Link #28
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Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
I don't get it. You're just further proving my point here.

Fire > Wind.

If Sasuke's "Main" affinity is fire, and Naruto's "main" affinity is wind, then the Fire will just be even stronger.

As in, you're telling me Yamato taught Naruto's wind and then instead of training him in water, is going to let his main affinity become even more dangerous to him?

Doesn't make sense.

No, you got that wrong.

There is no such thing as "Main affinity", there is only elements of affinity, each person has only one, but each person is capable of learning Jutsus of other Elements outside their affinity.

and then, the reason why Naruto practiced with wind, it because that's his element of affinity, and the purpose to focus on this in the trainng, was made to finish the Jutsu Yondaime started.
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Old 2007-11-06, 13:42   Link #29
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@El Frenchie ^ Rurik I think explained it better than I did. I was trying to say that people naturally only have 1 affinity, but they can learn to use elements not attributed to their affinity.

I know that it terms of science and in the real world it seems fire is stronger, but even in the real world fire cannot survive without air. Lets say you can control air molecules. There is a small candle with a flame lit. You remove the air surrounding the candle, which creates a vaccuum. The flame will extinguish since it cannot survive without the air that fed it. So even though in the real world fire grows stronger with more air it also grows weaker with less air.

As you can see the "pokemon" idea of elements does have it's flaws, but one must remember that it's a work of fiction therefore real life science does not need to really apply. I mean Kishimoto has lightning stronger than earth, but one can easily claim that earth can be used as a ground and therefore will redirect the current and therefore earth should be stronger than lightning, but in a work of fiction there is no need to get so complicated. In a sense sometimes it's just better to look at things simply rather than trying to construct complex scenerios, which the author probably never intended. Many people when they learned about the elements did express concern about elements and affinities being placed in Naruto so you were not the only one to question the idea of using elements, but the use of earth, wind, fire, and water (lightning was considered by many cultures to be another form of fire) has been used by many cultures in both religion and stories.
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Old 2007-11-06, 18:56   Link #30
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Quote:
Just wanted to point out that here you seem to be contradicting yourself, pointing out that Sasuke's natural affinity is Katon, but he knows a Raiton technique. This being the case, your argument is that Sasuke was born with an affinity for Raiton as well as Katon, and so he was able to learn Raikiri. This seems questionable at best, considering he'd been practicing Katon jutsu since he was very little, and only focused on Raiton after training with Kakashi. Also, everyone has discussed how the Uchiha clan was the most talented in the ways of Katon jutsu. No one has ever discussed any Uchiha with an affinity for Raiton, which suggests that either: A) Sasuke learned this elemental technique fresh, or B) Sasuke is the first and only Uchiha born with two elemental affinities. I'm not saying that there wasn't some Uchiha born with a Raiton affinity, and since they were murdered we might never know, but it seems silly that such a great emphasis would be placed on their Katon affinity with absolutely no mention of other affinities. I'd think that, if other affinities circulated amongst the Uchiha, someone would have surely said something by now.
We know the Uchiha had an extreme affinity with fire, which showed through almost all of their individuals, and certainly through their array of techniques.

-But- it doesn't mean that one person couldn't have more than one affinity at birth. If Sasuke just lived working on his fire jutsu, he just could've been unaware of his second affinity, much like Naruto was completely unaware of his wind affinity.

Quote:
No, you got that wrong.

There is no such thing as "Main affinity", there is only elements of affinity, each person has only one, but each person is capable of learning Jutsus of other Elements outside their affinity.

and then, the reason why Naruto practiced with wind, it because that's his element of affinity, and the purpose to focus on this in the trainng, was made to finish the Jutsu Yondaime started.
According to you, then, that's the reason why they didn't train Naruto in water? To finish Yondaime's jutsu? That's hardly relevant since Sasuke has fire jutsus. Wasn't his aim to "Catch up to Sasuke" and Kakashi saying "Sasuke makes him that determined!"

etc?

Quote:
@El Frenchie ^ Rurik I think explained it better than I did. I was trying to say that people naturally only have 1 affinity, but they can learn to use elements not attributed to their affinity.

I know that it terms of science and in the real world it seems fire is stronger, but even in the real world fire cannot survive without air. Lets say you can control air molecules. There is a small candle with a flame lit. You remove the air surrounding the candle, which creates a vaccuum. The flame will extinguish since it cannot survive without the air that fed it. So even though in the real world fire grows stronger with more air it also grows weaker with less air.

As you can see the "pokemon" idea of elements does have it's flaws, but one must remember that it's a work of fiction therefore real life science does not need to really apply. I mean Kishimoto has lightning stronger than earth, but one can easily claim that earth can be used as a ground and therefore will redirect the current and therefore earth should be stronger than lightning, but in a work of fiction there is no need to get so complicated. In a sense sometimes it's just better to look at things simply rather than trying to construct complex scenerios, which the author probably never intended. Many people when they learned about the elements did express concern about elements and affinities being placed in Naruto so you were not the only one to question the idea of using elements, but the use of earth, wind, fire, and water (lightning was considered by many cultures to be another form of fire) has been used by many cultures in both religion and stories.
Well.. I know. But I'm not challenging the fact it's simple.

As given, we have a chain of elements who each have a weakness and strength compared to the others: Fire > Wind > Lightning > Earth > Water > Fire.

That's what Kishi told us. And that's why I'm wondering why they wouldn't teach Naruto water if it is possible to teach elements.

=======

Other thing:

Quote:
There is no such thing as "Main affinity", there is only elements of affinity, each person has only one, but each person is capable of learning Jutsus of other Elements outside their affinity.
Then why the hell make affinities a gene, a trait of a character then? If anyone can learn any element, there's absolutely no point if it's not a "main" affinity that distinguishes it from the others.

As in, there's no point giving -any- affinities at birth, they'll just learn them.

AND

IF for example, your affinity at birth is more powerful/easy-to-use/"puthereatacticaladvantage"

Then why is Sasuke only using Raiton lately?

This screams plothole.
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Old 2007-11-06, 23:35   Link #31
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About all this elemental affinity stuff, it's just that an affinity. If you have an affinity for a particular element, than that means you naturally will lean towards it. Any technique involving it will be easier to learn for you than it would be for someone else who lacks that affinity. Think about in the real world how the majority of the top athletes in the world all have certain gene sequences that lend themselves to superior performance. However, despite this genetic edge there are others who by sheer virtue of training and hardwork can compete at the same level.

The same principle is operating here, the affinity means that should you train it the elment that you have that affinity for will, in general, produce techniques of superior strength than someone who lacks that affinity. However, none of that precludes the option of learning about techniques that involve elements you do not have an affinity for or having an affinity for more than one element. We know that Kakashi and most likely his dad have lightning elemntal chakra affinity and that special white chakra. Also Kakashi has learned doton, kaiton and suiton techniques. The thing about a bloodline is that this allows you to blend elemental chakra types together to create new ones. So long as you are simply using multiple elemental types and staying within the limits of the 5 you haven't violated any rules that Kishimoto has established.

It is highly possible that Sasuke has two elmental affinities, both lightning and fire. As an Uchiha it can be assumed he has fire, lightning could be considered iffy. However, for anyone who says that since he's Uchiha him having another elemental chakra affinity either makes him an incredibly rare ninja or is just plain and simple out of the question I have to ask, where do you think more Uchiha come from? Madara was the first Uchiha and his children would be the only ones who would inherit his Sharingan. However, unless the Naruto-verse is planning on getting especially funky he would have had to mate with a woman to produce children. Those children would also have to mate with other (non-Uchiha) to produce more children and establish the clan proper. All of those other people could easily bring in the requisite genetic variation to have all the other elemental affinities floating around the gene pool. It's just that the Uchiha clan value the fire element (most likely cause that's Madara's exclusive affinity) and use knowledge of techniques that involve it as a rite of passage, which would naturally result in any other elemental techniques and/or affinities being ignored until they begin new training as chunins. Funny enough, this is when Sasuke learned chidori, in training for the final leg of the chunin exam and after having established himself as a man of the Uchiha clan by mastering Kaiton techniques.

As far as Sandaime's title of The Professor goes, as others have said he knew every jutsu in Konoha, while Orochimaru in his quest to know every jutsu period would definately know jutsu that would not be present in Konoha.

For Kakuzu, the fact that he knew and was capable of performing all the techniques of all the elemental chakras is a big thing. Kakashi said that most Jounin know 2 elements and that it takes a lot of time to learn them. Having total mastery of all 5 elements and being able to use them so freely would indicate that he is a high class and very powerful ninja, which he was. I mean think about it, Kakashi and Sarutobi are some of the few ninjas who don't have a bloodline that we have seen use more than 1 elemental jutsu well and even combine them together for more effective attacks and they are both considered powerful ninja. Kakuzu outclasses both of them in this regard and borders on having a bloodline limit in terms of proficiency thanks to his heart trick. This allows him to have an affinity for all 5 elemental chakra types, something that most likely is impossible. Elemental techniques are also considered very powerful, so it would be a big deal for Kakuzu to have the abilities he had.

Finally about Pein, his Rinnegan allows him to master all 6 elements. Since we only know of 5 so far, it is quite likely that the 6th is exclusive to Pein/those with Rinnegan. I also proposed a theory in another thread that the 6th is some kind of void element that allows for elemental fusions. However, we don't know what Jiraiya's comment means. It could be taken at face values and mean he has affinity for all the elemental chakras allowing him to do any elemental jutsu and like Nidaime doesn't need a source for them, or a bit deeper and mean he can do any elemental fusion like the Yonbi (most probable in my opinion), or something else entirely. Regardless as was established with Kakuzu, having mastery of all the elements is a big thing and denotes an especially capable and powerful shinobi, which Pein certainly is.
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Old 2007-11-07, 03:01   Link #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
We know the Uchiha had an extreme affinity with fire, which showed through almost all of their individuals, and certainly through their array of techniques.

-But- it doesn't mean that one person couldn't have more than one affinity at birth. If Sasuke just lived working on his fire jutsu, he just could've been unaware of his second affinity, much like Naruto was completely unaware of his wind affinity.
But every character we've seen who was born with more than one affinity (definitively) has been able to combine them into a BL. Haku: Wind+Water=Ice, Shodai: Earth+Water=Wood. Contrary-wise, we've seen lots of people who can use attacks out of different elements, yet appear to have an affinity for only one element. Kakashi, Sasuke, and Sandaime are the prime example of that.




Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
That's what Kishi told us. And that's why I'm wondering why they wouldn't teach Naruto water if it is possible to teach elements.
It's possible that they will later, but I think at that time they were trying to inspire Naruto by telling him that this was a technique even Yondaime couldn't finish. In that way, he'd be more likely to work harder to complete the jutsu so he could say he did something even the greatest hokage could not.



Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
Then why the hell make affinities a gene, a trait of a character then? If anyone can learn any element, there's absolutely no point if it's not a "main" affinity that distinguishes it from the others.

As in, there's no point giving -any- affinities at birth, they'll just learn them.
But affinities are important in the respect that they determine elemental strength. It opens up the possibility of one person having trained their affinity more than another, and possibly using a submissive element to overpower it's dominating element. In the example of Sasuke/Naruto, it'd be like Naruto using his wind to blow Sasuke's fire out. If you think about it, that possibility must exist since short, strong, concentrated bursts of wind can put out flames.


Quote:
Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
IF for example, your affinity at birth is more powerful/easy-to-use/"puthereatacticaladvantage"

Then why is Sasuke only using Raiton lately?

This screams plothole.
This I can't argue with. Perhaps Sasuke is only using Raiton because he's worked so hard on developing the techniques and he wants to show them off. If you think about it, ever since Sasuke learned Chidori, it's been his favorite technique to use. He used it three times in the fight against Gaara, and didn't use a single fire technique. I think he's just been using it, and it alone, as of late because he recognizes it is a more powerful and versatile technique, with far more manipulative opportunities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darkprimus
Madara was the first Uchiha and his children would be the only ones who would inherit his Sharingan. However, unless the Naruto-verse is planning on getting especially funky he would have had to mate with a woman to produce children. Those children would also have to mate with other (non-Uchiha) to produce more children and establish the clan proper. All of those other people could easily bring in the requisite genetic variation to have all the other elemental affinities floating around the gene pool.
Yes, but I would think that, within the children of Uchiha who inherit Sharingan, they would also inherit the fire affinity that Madara has (or so we've assumed). It doesn't make sense, biologically or genetically, for Sasuke to inherit the dominant bloodline traits of Madara in one aspect (Sharingan), but not in the other (Fire affinity). Yes, I recognize that children are a mix of dominant and recessive genes from both their parents but, one would think, such reverence for both of these traits would flow from the fact that they come in a pair.
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Old 2007-11-07, 08:00   Link #33
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I think it's possible to use the lower ranked jutsu's from other elements. But to make any spatially recomposition you need an affinity for the element.
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Old 2007-11-07, 08:07   Link #34
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Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
IF for example, your affinity at birth is more powerful/easy-to-use/"puthereatacticaladvantage"

Then why is Sasuke only using Raiton lately?

This screams plothole.
Because it was never said that fire was sasukes natural affinity... all uchihas know fire and it doesnt seem like he is as talented with fire and uses fire as much as he is talented in his lightning... look how well he can manipulate lightning he can form it into a sword shock it threw his body extend his sword with it.... It seems like sasukes natural affinity is more likely to be lightning and he was just taught katon by his clan like all other uchihas this would also make naruto naturally better then sasuke since wind > lightning

and remember during the chunnin exams when kakashi said "sasuke is like me" this makes me think that his affinity is lightning not fire.
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Old 2007-11-07, 09:18   Link #35
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Originally Posted by El_Frenchie View Post
We know the Uchiha had an extreme affinity with fire, which showed through almost all of their individuals, and certainly through their array of techniques.

-But- it doesn't mean that one person couldn't have more than one affinity at birth. If Sasuke just lived working on his fire jutsu, he just could've been unaware of his second affinity, much like Naruto was completely unaware of his wind affinity.
Again, the Uchihas most of them had affinity for fire, it did not mean all of them had affinity of fire, and certainly not that if they could use more than one elemental Jutsu they have more than one affinity, the reason why Kakashi was surprised at Kakuuzu was not because he could use the 5 elements, it because he could used them at full power all of them. Meaning he had 5 affinity, and this was proven because he had 5 hearts.

Quote:
According to you, then, that's the reason why they didn't train Naruto in water? To finish Yondaime's jutsu? That's hardly relevant since Sasuke has fire jutsus. Wasn't his aim to "Catch up to Sasuke" and Kakashi saying "Sasuke makes him that determined!"
Yes, that’s the reason they used Wind Jutsu, because Wind was his affinity and hence was the easiest to learn for Naruto and the one that he can use with more power, in fact Kakashi explained to that the reason why he teached Naruto to Elementally manipulate his chakra was to complete the Rasengan.


Quote:
Well.. I know. But I'm not challenging the fact it's simple.

As given, we have a chain of elements who each have a weakness and strength compared to the others: Fire > Wind > Lightning > Earth > Water > Fire.

That's what Kishi told us. And that's why I'm wondering why they wouldn't teach Naruto water if it is possible to teach elements.
Because as Explained by Yamato, for Water to be really > than Fire, it needs to be at the same level, if you don’t have affinity for Water, and try to fight against someone has Fire Affinity with a water Jutsu, then the Water > Fire falls flat.


=======
Quote:
Other thing:


Then why the hell make affinities a gene, a trait of a character then? If anyone can learn any element, there's absolutely no point if it's not a "main" affinity that distinguishes it from the others.

As in, there's no point giving -any- affinities at birth, they'll just learn them.
Yes there is, because this give us a balance of people having powerful Jutsu for one Element, and not so powerful for any other element.

Without this rule created by Kishi, any Shinoby could had used all the elements at the same power, and thus Kakuzu ability wouldn’t had been that cool to begin with.

Quote:
AND

IF for example, your affinity at birth is more powerful/easy-to-use/"puthereatacticaladvantage"

Then why is Sasuke only using Raiton lately?

This screams plothole.
Because it was never mentioned that Sasuke was Fire affinity, it was mentioned he could use those 2 effectively, which are 2 different things.
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Old 2007-11-07, 10:56   Link #36
Quzor
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Originally Posted by xAdvo View Post
Because it was never said that fire was sasukes natural affinity... all uchihas know fire and it doesnt seem like he is as talented with fire and uses fire as much as he is talented in his lightning... look how well he can manipulate lightning he can form it into a sword shock it threw his body extend his sword with it.... It seems like sasukes natural affinity is more likely to be lightning and he was just taught katon by his clan like all other uchihas this would also make naruto naturally better then sasuke since wind > lightning

and remember during the chunnin exams when kakashi said "sasuke is like me" this makes me think that his affinity is lightning not fire.
Ya know...that's an interesting point. I never thought about Sasuke actually being a lightning-based shinobi, but it would make sense. It explains why, like you said, he hasn't been using fire jutsu as much and his fire jutsu appears to be more ineffective. It would also explain why he has such a significant ability to manipulate lightning, but does not appear to have that ability with fire. In either case, it still validates the point that elemental abilities can be learned, since if Sasuke has a lightning affinity, he learned fire, and vice versa.
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Old 2007-11-08, 00:01   Link #37
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Originally Posted by Quzor View Post
Yes, but I would think that, within the children of Uchiha who inherit Sharingan, they would also inherit the fire affinity that Madara has (or so we've assumed). It doesn't make sense, biologically or genetically, for Sasuke to inherit the dominant bloodline traits of Madara in one aspect (Sharingan), but not in the other (Fire affinity). Yes, I recognize that children are a mix of dominant and recessive genes from both their parents but, one would think, such reverence for both of these traits would flow from the fact that they come in a pair.
The thing is until we know differently it's not impossible to have an affinity for more than one elemental chakra type, they don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive. Since there are 5 elements (6 based on Jiraiya's statement) that would translate (assuming the simplest circumstances) that one gene has 6 different variants allowing for each elemental affinity. Since most pairing is done within clans, and most clans would only have certain affinities being the most common it is easy to see that most people would only ever have 1 affinity. However if there is sufficient diversity remaining you could get 2 different copies of the gene, each which encodes a different affinity.

I imagine with a clan like the Uchiha there would have been tons of men and women who would have wanted to marry into it so that their children would inherit the Sharingan, an obviously dominate genetic trait that is passed down to every child. Heck this could be the origin of the Katon jutsu test. Madara would only want talented ninja coming into his clan and since he prized fire elemental affinity he would want any newcomers to show that they were proficient in it, especially if they had no affinity for it, meaning all newcomers would need to be either genius ninja themselves or jonin level at minimum.

However I am doubtful that the elemental affinity gene would be linked with the Sharingan gene. We know that elemental affinities are passed hereditarily and have been for some time. The odds of that gene which deals with a chakra type also possessing the DNA for the eye mutation that is the Sharingan seems unlikely. Heck I doubt the Sharingan is a single gene anyway. With everything that it does (chakra manipulation, enhanced eyesight, the physical change that is the Sharingan, chakra sensing eye cells, etc...) it's doubtful that any single gene would encode that much information, even master genes in the human body don't encode for that much.
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Old 2007-11-08, 04:16   Link #38
amOKchen
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Maybe he likes lightning over fire because you can variate your attacks more with it.
Or we have simply only seen him use lightning because his enemy had earth affinity.
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Old 2007-11-08, 07:03   Link #39
Quzor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkprimus View Post
The thing is until we know differently it's not impossible to have an affinity for more than one elemental chakra type, they don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive.
Without knowing, we can believe either way. I'm inclined to believe that, until we know otherwise, elemental affinities are mutually exclusive, in that each person is limited to one specifically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkprimus View Post
Since there are 5 elements (6 based on Jiraiya's statement) that would translate (assuming the simplest circumstances) that one gene has 6 different variants allowing for each elemental affinity. Since most pairing is done within clans, and most clans would only have certain affinities being the most common it is easy to see that most people would only ever have 1 affinity. However if there is sufficient diversity remaining you could get 2 different copies of the gene, each which encodes a different affinity.

I imagine with a clan like the Uchiha there would have been tons of men and women who would have wanted to marry into it so that their children would inherit the Sharingan, an obviously dominate genetic trait that is passed down to every child. Heck this could be the origin of the Katon jutsu test. Madara would only want talented ninja coming into his clan and since he prized fire elemental affinity he would want any newcomers to show that they were proficient in it, especially if they had no affinity for it, meaning all newcomers would need to be either genius ninja themselves or jonin level at minimum.

However I am doubtful that the elemental affinity gene would be linked with the Sharingan gene. We know that elemental affinities are passed hereditarily and have been for some time. The odds of that gene which deals with a chakra type also possessing the DNA for the eye mutation that is the Sharingan seems unlikely. Heck I doubt the Sharingan is a single gene anyway. With everything that it does (chakra manipulation, enhanced eyesight, the physical change that is the Sharingan, chakra sensing eye cells, etc...) it's doubtful that any single gene would encode that much information, even master genes in the human body don't encode for that much.
I'm not trying to suggest that the Sharingan gene and elemental affinity gene are one in the same. I'm not even suggesting that they are one gene specifically; they could both be a combination of genes. I only meant to say that it seems like those two characteristics would come in a pair, since they both seem to be so prized among the clan ("X" can effectively use Sharingan, it is time to teach him about his affinity to fire). Admittedly, you may be right about the fire affinity issue, in that Madara only wanted them to be proficient in fire so that it could continue to be passed through the lineage, but considering the reverence that these traits hold within the clan, and the dominance with which they persist suggests, to me, that they come in a pair, regardless of how many genes it takes to make up these traits. Looking at Sasuke's father and Itachi (the only two other Uchiha about which we know anything), it would appear that they carry both traits. Again, I recognize that this may not be the case, but since we know nothing about other members of the Uchiha clan, I'm of the belief that they are linked.
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Old 2007-11-08, 08:24   Link #40
Sabaku Kyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkprimus View Post
The thing is until we know differently it's not impossible to have an affinity for more than one elemental chakra type, they don't necessarily need to be mutually exclusive.
I would agree except for the paper test. Based on one's chakra affinity, the paper reacts a certain way. Fire: it burns, Wind: it splits, Lightning it crinkles. Since the paper seems to only react one specific way per person, that determines your true affinity and having two or more affinities normally isn't possible, else the test wouldn't really be reliable. That's not to say a shinobi can't become proficient in using other elemental jutsu and maybe even prefer to use an element that isn't their affinity, it's just that they will always have a natural inclination towards one element even if only slightly.
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