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Old 2004-08-01, 17:32   Link #61
Sakaki-
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginer
I have just started to play around in the subbing and timing field and yes I do agree. SW is better in getting down the times of the subs and alot better interface for that as well as you can not only listen, but view the video as well. (though lacks the styles and karaoke stuff of SSA)

SW also allows an ADJUSTABLE WINDOW SIZE! SSA however, it likes to stay at full screen. Grrrrrr....
Lets see here now, Timing a 24 minutes episode of abut 300 to 600 dialogue lines takes about 27 minutes or so from a wave file, this is if you just concentrate on the timing and not anything else, this can also go faster depending on the layout of the episode.

Then fine timing "Scene timing" takes about 24 minutes, that gives a time of 51 minutes or so, though on this step you can do a little trick, during the time you wave time encode a lq rip of your raw and boost it up with more keyframes.
Then you can jump keyframes and listen to every line you see pop up on screen at keyframes if they continue or should be cut. (Note i find this style very borring and its not flawless, by not being flawless i mean you cnat check your timing during this pass wich i think is very important.)

So about 37 minutes would be a good speed if you optimised your timing using substation Alpha and Virtual dub to achive your goals.
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Originally Posted by Ky_Kiske
As does a lot of the anime airing now adays

and the leechers too, they're the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked
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Old 2004-08-01, 18:49   Link #62
d-hogan
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Todd speaks

I apprised Todd of this thread and this is his statement:

>From Todd:
A friend of mine first formats the script before I see it. She catches
stupid things and puts it in a format I can use to time. Then sends it to
me. All this while I work on other shows.

I time in real time using both video and audio. So a 25 minute show takes 25
minutes to time. I correct my human error factor of ears to fingers and run
a timing bar tape with the script running in real time and record it (25 min
more). I then go through line by line and fix grammar, timing errors, split
lines up, place text and do credits(usually cast only and song credits). The
editing takes anywhere from 2-3 hours for a 25 minute show depending on
quality and amount of dialogue. LOGH takes a lot longer to edit than, say,
Initial D. I then watch it without the timing bar with friends holding
paper and pencils to catch errors in grammar and timing(25 min more). I may
watch it twice.

25 + 25 + 2hr + 25 = 3hrs 15 min for a 25 min show. Add variable time and
it's 4hrs 40min.

Todd Perkins
Central Anime
(Currently deployed)
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Old 2004-08-11, 01:53   Link #63
crumja
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[QUOTE=Sakaki-]Lets see here now, Timing a 24 minutes episode of abut 300 to 600 dialogue lines takes about 27 minutes or so from a wave file, this is if you just concentrate on the timing and not anything else, this can also go faster depending on the layout of the episode.[\QUOTE]

I challenge that. For something with < 300 lines it might be possible if you click fast enough to catch the beginning and end of the line, but it won't be (unless your timing is off) for a 300-600 lines script. I'm sure most fansub timers will agree with me on that.
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Old 2004-08-11, 09:23   Link #64
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakaki-
Lets see here now, Timing a 24 minutes episode of abut 300 to 600 dialogue lines takes about 27 minutes or so from a wave file, this is if you just concentrate on the timing and not anything else, this can also go faster depending on the layout of the episode.
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. My biggest guess is that you're talking ideal conditions, meaning flawless script, all the line breaks done by the editor, ... etc. Also... 300 -> 600... There is quite a difference between a 300 and a 600 line script. Unless you have some nice timing tools besides SSA (I really can't imagine how they'd work other than voice recognition, maybe something similar to xzombie and even something like that won't help you with overlapping lines) or some special human ability to do this fast, there is probably no way to have a 300+ line script rough timed nicely under 30 minutes. I challenge you on that one too.
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Old 2004-08-11, 10:22   Link #65
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LytHka
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. My biggest guess is that you're talking ideal conditions, meaning flawless script, all the line breaks done by the editor, ... etc. Also... 300 -> 600... There is quite a difference between a 300 and a 600 line script. Unless you have some nice timing tools besides SSA (I really can't imagine how they'd work other than voice recognition, maybe something similar to xzombie and even something like that won't help you with overlapping lines) or some special human ability to do this fast, there is probably no way to have a 300+ line script rough timed nicely under 30 minutes. I challenge you on that one too.
300 lines in 30 minutes is 6 seconds per line
600 lines in 30 minutes is 3 seconds per line
both are doable theoretically, as long as there's not much background noise and that the timer doesn't make a mistake in breaking the lines. If he has to play thru all the excerpts, then he has about 1 second per line of clicking/GUI time for 300 lines and 1/2 second per line for 600 lines. Thus, not much room for mistakes ^^;
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Old 2004-08-11, 10:52   Link #66
LytHka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
300 lines in 30 minutes is 6 seconds per line
600 lines in 30 minutes is 3 seconds per line
both are doable theoretically, as long as there's not much background noise and that the timer doesn't make a mistake in breaking the lines. If he has to play thru all the excerpts, then he has about 1 second per line of clicking/GUI time for 300 lines and 1/2 second per line for 600 lines. Thus, not much room for mistakes ^^;
Forgetting a couple of things here:

MOST anime episodes are 21-22 minutes long (excluding the OP & ED), so the lines would be even more crammed together in this example. More lines in a script doesn't really mean that the there's a lot of short lines usually, it means there are many overlapping lines, meaning there's A LOT of background noise when timing one line. Considering that distracting normal human senses, timing slows down. "theoretically" is another word here saying a human should have complete focus on the wav AT ALL TIMES. Personally I think that's impossible.

Another point I'd like to make. Most timers aren't experts in Japanese, I know I'm not, still I do have a good sense, knowledge, when a certain line starts and ends. I see "bad" timings from reputable groups all the time, not mentioning some names that are present in this thread as well and a good part of those timings has something incommon with reckless timing.

(Yes, I would like to see someone rough time a 300+ episode under 30 minutes with their own timing style not getting bad.)
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Old 2004-08-11, 11:30   Link #67
SirCanealot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
300 lines in 30 minutes is 6 seconds per line
600 lines in 30 minutes is 3 seconds per line
I'd just like to see a video of someone keep up an insane pace like that for 30 minutes, heh.
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Old 2004-08-11, 11:54   Link #68
Heibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
I'd just like to see a video of someone keep up an insane pace like that for 30 minutes, heh.

Well, I keep up with the LOGH pace for 55 minutes at a time. And their scripts are in the 700+ lines category, which increases after editing via line splits. Of course I time in real time as we all know. When I get the overlapping dialog problem I make the lines invisible and manually change the times to reflect their true timing.

I love timing in real time.
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Old 2004-08-11, 12:28   Link #69
SirCanealot
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Timing in real time with a Genlock type thing (I assume that is what you mean) isn't as tiring as:
Left click (start time), right click (end time), left click on grab times - six times per second.

I play RTSes - I know how much pressure that would put on a wrist :P
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Old 2004-08-11, 12:40   Link #70
Kanna
The Triad
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In front of my MHD player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sakaki-
Lets see here now, Timing a 24 minutes episode of abut 300 to 600 dialogue lines takes about 27 minutes or so from a wave file, this is if you just concentrate on the timing and not anything else, this can also go faster depending on the layout of the episode.
...
So about 37 minutes would be a good speed if you optimised your timing using substation Alpha and Virtual dub to achive your goals.
I'll also have to call BS on that. 27 minutes to time an episode in a neat and correct manner is impossible. Granted if the episode had no music, just straight speech and everyone's talking one at a time yes, it is likely 27 minutes will get the job done. If you want to do it right, as in checking the times and adding leadin/leadout times, it'll take much longer. Hell I've been timing for 4 years and I still spend 40 minutes per 230 line episode. Speed timing just leads to errors and inconsistencies, sure I can time an ep in 10 minutes flat, I just won't guarantee it's done with care or accuracy.
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Old 2004-08-11, 13:03   Link #71
Heibi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
Timing in real time with a Genlock type thing (I assume that is what you mean) isn't as tiring as:
Left click (start time), right click (end time), left click on grab times - six times per second.

I play RTSes - I know how much pressure that would put on a wrist :P
You're right. I up arrow key down arrow key for the titles. I right click to back up during my timing run to undo a title(handy little feature) if I jumped the gun.
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Old 2004-08-11, 20:31   Link #72
Sylf
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I think I've timed something just short of 200 lines (one of the LastEXILE) in just over 30 minutes. Since I translated the episode too, I knew line breaks etc pretty well. (rough time only)
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Old 2004-08-24, 22:58   Link #73
Kawaii_tsunami
Apprentice Timer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
im a bit unclear about how the audio and the script goes with the video in the guide it doesnst really make a clear statement how and when...im sorry..but im a newbie to all this, can someone explain?
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Old 2004-08-24, 23:09   Link #74
Darth_E_
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawaii_tsunami
im a bit unclear about how the audio and the script goes with the video in the guide it doesnst really make a clear statement how and when...im sorry..but im a newbie to all this, can someone explain?
?

It's simple. You have two methods to time scripts :

1.Rip a 8bit mono PCM audio file from the raw, load it on SSA and time with it
or
2.Load the video in subtitle workshop and time according to when they move their mouths.

Difference between boths? Method 1 is more accurate , but you have to go over the script twice and check for scene bleeds. Whereas Method 2 is less accurate, but you dont have to worry about scene bleeds alot since you can see when do the frames change in SW.

I personally use and recommend the first method.

Yours,
-Elly
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Old 2004-08-24, 23:11   Link #75
Kawaii_tsunami
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ok thank u
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Old 2004-08-25, 07:35   Link #76
Sakaki-
AnimeONE Typesetter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LytHka
I'm not sure what you're talking about here. My biggest guess is that you're talking ideal conditions, meaning flawless script, all the line breaks done by the editor, ... etc. Also... 300 -> 600... There is quite a difference between a 300 and a 600 line script. Unless you have some nice timing tools besides SSA (I really can't imagine how they'd work other than voice recognition, maybe something similar to xzombie and even something like that won't help you with overlapping lines) or some special human ability to do this fast, there is probably no way to have a 300+ line script rough timed nicely under 30 minutes. I challenge you on that one too.

Yeah i guess its ideal conditions when no one botheres you and no that is accounted for with some splits, and i tend to think that its better with a script where all lines are clumpred together then one where its not.

And i beg to differ 30 minutes is more then enuff if you sit down and seriously do the rough timing.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ky_Kiske
As does a lot of the anime airing now adays

and the leechers too, they're the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked
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Old 2004-08-25, 15:40   Link #77
Kawaii_tsunami
Apprentice Timer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
i dont understand what a bleed or a stutter is quite clearly..and i cant seem to find any...is there a certain way to watch the sub??

this is a great guide too^^
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Old 2004-08-25, 16:55   Link #78
Sylf
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Bleed : When a character speaks a word, the sub for it appears on the screen, then the scene changes quickly, but the sub remains on screen. On some subs, this happens more often, because the subtitle creator sticks to the policy that the sub should remain longer than (x) seconds, no matter what. Some other people can't stand that kind of bleed over...
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Old 2004-08-25, 17:12   Link #79
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylf
Bleed : When a character speaks a word, the sub for it appears on the screen, then the scene changes quickly, but the sub remains on screen. On some subs, this happens more often, because the subtitle creator sticks to the policy that the sub should remain longer than (x) seconds, no matter what. Some other people can't stand that kind of bleed over...
Generally, bleeding over is a problem if the sub is running over into the next scene for a really small amount of time. This gives certain people a weird feeling because it's almost close enough for it to be considered one event, but the scene change the subtitle end are far enough to be a bit annoying. If something _has_ to bleed over (like if the speaker almost carries over into the next scene), usually it's better to extend his/her lines so that there is at least a good 1/2 second intrusion into the next scene.
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Old 2004-08-25, 18:35   Link #80
Kawaii_tsunami
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thank you zalas and sylf!!
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