AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-04-27, 21:25   Link #121
cindialai
Tsukimori
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Send a message via MSN to cindialai
can anyone confirm how good is Ocha!Subs 's subs?
__________________
cindialai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-27, 22:31   Link #122
falloutgal
Madao
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dole Queue
I really liked the first ep and am really looking forward to the rest of this series! Like a previous poster, it also reminds me of 'Toki wo Kakeru Shoujo', plus the SD bits are cute Honey&Clover-esque, yay! But am also on the side of those who can't take the whole premise seriously, it just ain't working as a believable alternate reality for me...will have to take it as satire (or just ignore it) and enjoy the fluffy stuff ^_^
falloutgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 02:32   Link #123
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
You know, I'd really like to see this but Ocha!subs released episode one at a file size of 464MB. Eps 2 and 3 are 230ish MB each as well.

There's just no bleeping damn reason for those kind of file sizes. I'll be waiting for someone else which is unfortunate because the translation and subtitling might actually be good.
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 02:46   Link #124
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
I can see a problem with 460mb but what's wrong with 230mb? Especially if this is a HD rip or a good sd upscale.
Westlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 02:49   Link #125
tripperazn
Toyosaki Aki
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by cindialai View Post
can anyone confirm how good is Ocha!Subs 's subs?
Nothing has struck me as noticeably wrong with the subs so far, by just watching ep 2 of Ocha. There is some awkward phrasing, but then again which group doesn't? Solid subs, though very poorly seeded. It took me all of this afternoon to get the file.
__________________
tripperazn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 04:42   Link #126
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You know, I'd really like to see this but Ocha!subs released episode one at a file size of 464MB. Eps 2 and 3 are 230ish MB each as well.

There's just no bleeping damn reason for those kind of file sizes. I'll be waiting for someone else which is unfortunate because the translation and subtitling might actually be good.
know how you feel, its the same for Macross Frontier lot, some of the veteran subbers such as Aone, Shinsen and Menclave & Co. been pumping out ridiculous file sizes of upwards of 300mb+, but the most insulting part is that they aren't even in HD. Then comes along a group like AiA&I-Z and they give you HD quality in 170MB file size! amazing.

well the point being is that while the file size is big, i have to admit Ocha! animation quality is HD. The visual style of simple but very clean and bold lines makes the HD quality stand out.

230mb doesn't seem more reasonable, and the quality is still good, so for a new group it's commendable.

so to get in to discussion of the details of this series, so things been bothering me about the military stuff in this.

someone mentioned the water bottle, and i have to admit, you do hang it on your back pack like that. It's far easier to hang it from your belt where it's easy to reach.

Another curious thing was the library force using the SDF type 89 rifle for training, yet for operations they use a Mac-10 variant with extended barrels, almost like the carbine version.

while i can understand why they would use this model, due to the territory they protect (urban/indoor/CQB) i don't know why they don't train using it.

i mean the type 89 fire the 5.56 NATO round, it's far heavier and accurate then the standard calibre that the mac-10 use (.45ACP), even with the extended barrel the bullets still go everywhere at anything approaching range as you can see.

it's just baffling.

but hey, it was great seeing the media nazi's using mp5, with all the body armour both sides are wearing, those 9mm are going to have a hard time knocking out any of the library people.

too bad that can't be said if your hit with a .45 round, as some of those poor media troopers found out in ep2.




as for ep3, wow.

i was quite sadden to see a more though account of the incident 20yrs ago, i hope kasa-chan has brushed up on her VIP bodyguard training, although im a bit concerned over the present image.

looks too tight fitting, i mean, i hope she's armed with a pistol or at leased a knife.

__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 07:36   Link #127
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
i was quite sadden to see a more though account of the incident 20yrs ago
Yes indeed. The flashback underscores the seriousness of the confrontation between the two factions, which Kasahara failed to realise throughout her training. While firefights seem to kept to a minimum, people do get killed during operations. That's why Dojo feels the need to be very harsh on her, because she is treating the whole process like a high school game.

Quote:
Another curious thing was the library force using the SDF type 89 rifle for training, yet for operations they use a Mac-10 variant with extended barrels, almost like the carbine version.
Judging from the cutscenes included in the OP, I think the Library Corps do use their assault rifles for certain operations. Like you've noted, they used their submachine guns in Ep2 and Ep3 probably because they anticipated most of the fighting to take place indoors where the extra range is not needed.

By the way, thanks for naming the weapons. I was wondering if the soldiers were using real weapons, because I thought the Library Task Force snipers were using Remington M700 rifles. Did I get that right?

As for why they trained with assault rifles instead of their submachine guns (I presume you are referring to Ep1), I think it's because they were undergoing endurance training. That being the case, it makes sense for the cadets to be carrying a heavier than normal load. During my cadet days, I was required to put on half-battle order (webbing, four dummy magazines, two full water bottles, M-16 rifle) while training on our obstacle course. Sometimes, we're required to put on full-battle order as well (half-battle order plus full pack). That's a total load of at least 20kg (44 pounds), if not more. I am as chibi as Dojo in real life, so you can imagine the nightmare I faced each time I had to clear the high wall (1.8m wall, first obstacle in the course) in full-battle order. It's extremely demoralising if you slam into the wall because you can't jump high enough on the first try.

The thing is, we only need to carry our rifles during the actual physical test. Needless to say, we literally flew through the test because we've already become so heavily conditioned by that time.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 07:48   Link #128
SuperKnuckles
Anime Hobbyist
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You know, I'd really like to see this but Ocha!subs released episode one at a file size of 464MB. Eps 2 and 3 are 230ish MB each as well.

There's just no bleeping damn reason for those kind of file sizes. I'll be waiting for someone else which is unfortunate because the translation and subtitling might actually be good.
File size is about perfect. I have a MAJOR problem with my hard drive size that always nearly fills but I tend to delete all anime I watch anyway. 200+ MB seems alright. Some higher quality ones that go beyond 300+ is ridiculous but I got used to it.

I do have some issues with Ocha!subs where they leave out a few translation lines or flub some of the dialog that changed the meaning of what's been said. Otherwise, it's very watchable at least.
SuperKnuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 08:39   Link #129
DragoonKain3
Osana-Najimi Shipper
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mt. Ordeals
God, that took forever to get eps from Ocha (lol @ their distro ). I would've made a reply post earlier, but decided to skip and see if eps 2/3's background info would change my mind at how ridiculous the series's premise is.


Well, Ocha's subs compared with the others seems to indicate that the library protection act was an act that's pushed through federally. So that makes way more sense than the local governments passing such a law (it's one thing about uniforms, and it's another about maintaing a military with a heavy upkeep), but that's not without its flaws.

For one thing, an episode brings out a very good point... if there's such a big conflict about the two acts, then why hasn't the ruling party amended one of the laws? Especially when public peace and human lives are at stake here. And that's not going into how the library act got passed in the first place, when:
a) the people who were pro-media enforcement act didn't just lose power all of a sudden, and so I'm wondering how'd it even got through
and
b) even if those who were against the media enforcement act were in power during that time, it would've made more sense for them to amend the act to something much less severe if they wanted to keep the act in check, rather than pass the ridiculous law that opposes this act

And lulz at the journalist. What happened to the neutrality? While it's true that it's always nice to save people's lives, it's another matter when it's a pre-planned method of aid.

I'm sorry, while the fight against censorship is something all anime watchers (of all people) would know something about, the way it's handled diplomatically and politically in this series is the stuff of lulz. While it's true that these kind of conflict over censorship (not to this scale mind you) happens all over the world and not just in Japan, you've really really REALLY got to be kidding me if all these things in the anime aren't 'really that farfetched'.



On to the romance part, I LOVE Tezuka! People complaining about the whiny and indecisive male harem lead? Well, here is his polar opposite. Much better than that shrimp of a brat, of whose opinion of mine dropped sharply at eps 3. You're one of the people who brought her into the special task force, and yet you think she's not good enough to tango with the rest of the crew? If eps 2 was of any indication, while her action plan required more thinking, her military knowhow seems to be good enough to fight against the enemy. Which really is all that matters in the battlefield, as she's a soldier not a commander.

All in all though, Shibasaki is the roxxorz. Despite being a gossip monger and extremely into her looks (at least compared to our heroine), this person has a very good head on her shoulders despite what most anime archetypes would say. By far and away my favourite character of the series so far.
__________________

Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever
Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)
DragoonKain3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 09:15   Link #130
Vexx
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I can see a problem with 460mb but what's wrong with 230mb? Especially if this is a HD rip or a good sd upscale.
1) 230MB is on the outside edge of tolerable -- but as others have said there is really no reason for that size of encode, aka it doesnt actually add value (but that is a tech discussion issue). To me its more of an indication of encode skill.

2) Not a lot of point in watching ep 2 and 3 unless I have seen ep 1.

3) Many people on the web have some sort of data-transfer or bandwidth restrictions. I am one of them .
Vexx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 09:26   Link #131
SuperKnuckles
Anime Hobbyist
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
For one thing, an episode brings out a very good point... if there's such a big conflict about the two acts, then why hasn't the ruling party amended one of the laws? Especially when public peace and human lives are at stake here. And that's not going into how the library act got passed in the first place, when:
a) the people who were pro-media enforcement act didn't just lose power all of a sudden, and so I'm wondering how'd it even got through
and
b) even if those who were against the media enforcement act were in power during that time, it would've made more sense for them to amend the act to something much less severe if they wanted to keep the act in check, rather than pass the ridiculous law that opposes this act
I would think the scenario would happen if the idea of a federation of states is taken literally. As in the centralized and individual ruling states having their own say and overlapping one another. It is a very strange dynamic and it does stretch things quite far. Yeah, I do agree that if peoples' lives are at stake and it turns into a civil war, you'd think they'd reconcile if at least for security's sakes. Japan in that situation must be very well off if library books are worth dying for.

Quote:
And lulz at the journalist. What happened to the neutrality? While it's true that it's always nice to save people's lives, it's another matter when it's a pre-planned method of aid.
Does not surprise me personally. Many journalists only feign neutrality in real life. Though obviously, anime tends to stretch it pretty far even if it concerns deadly firefights. Deithart in Code Geass anyone?

Quote:
I'm sorry, while the fight against censorship is something all anime watchers (of all people) would know something about, the way it's handled diplomatically and politically in this series is the stuff of lulz. While it's true that these kind of conflict over censorship (not to this scale mind you) happens all over the world and not just in Japan, you've really really REALLY got to be kidding me if all these things in the anime aren't 'really that farfetched'.
Certainly the premise seems to overtake realism, but I still don't think the idea is actually impossible. Just very improbable as it stands now. Also, I think that kind of inter-state warfare is more likely in the United States than anywhere else since the battle lines are already drawn with inter-state rules that directly clash a lot of the times and it may get worse in the future.

Quote:
On to the romance part, I LOVE Tezuka! People complaining about the whiny and indecisive male harem lead? Well, here is his polar opposite. Much better than that shrimp of a brat, of whose opinion of mine dropped sharply at eps 3. You're one of the people who brought her into the special task force, and yet you think she's not good enough to tango with the rest of the crew? If eps 2 was of any indication, while her action plan required more thinking, her military knowhow seems to be good enough to fight against the enemy. Which really is all that matters in the battlefield, as she's a soldier not a commander.

All in all though, Shibasaki is the roxxorz. Despite being a gossip monger and extremely into her looks (at least compared to our heroine), this person has a very good head on her shoulders despite what most anime archetypes would say. By far and away my favourite character of the series so far.
I admire Tezuka's brashness, but he just seems way too advantageous of people and his social skills? NADA.

I think Doujo's reasoning makes more sense in the battlefield terms and Shibasaki plays a bit too coy for my tastes but I suppose she does get the job done.
SuperKnuckles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 09:46   Link #132
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
I'm sorry, while the fight against censorship is something all anime watchers (of all people) would know something about, the way it's handled diplomatically and politically in this series is the stuff of lulz. While it's true that these kind of conflict over censorship (not to this scale mind you) happens all over the world and not just in Japan, you've really really REALLY got to be kidding me if all these things in the anime aren't 'really that farfetched'.
I think it comes down to what standard of "reality" you're using, in the end. And also perhaps to the kinds of political contexts you're familiar with. Besides, as many of us have repeatedly pointed out, I don't think the author intended to make her novels fully realistic. More likely, she was toying with a hypothetical idea that the Japanese could easily relate to, due to similar situations in their society. And far more likely, she probably just wanted to set a romance in this hypothetical setting, because it's certainly easier to write a romance rather than a political satire. Not to mention, it'll probably be more popular too (hence more potential earnings - writers need to eat).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
On to the romance part, I LOVE Tezuka! People complaining about the whiny and indecisive male harem lead? Well, here is his polar opposite. Much better than that shrimp of a brat, of whose opinion of mine dropped sharply at eps 3.
Let the 'shipping begin?

I think you're the first person to like him, lol. I find him presumptious and overbearing. He has the same rank as Kasahara, but he presumes to have the authority to lecture her in front of two superior officers? It'll seem as though he was trying to catch attention at a fellow cadet's expense. He isn't actually like that, of course, but that is the impression he gives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
You're one of the people who brought her into the special task force, and yet you think she's not good enough to tango with the rest of the crew? If eps 2 was of any indication, while her action plan required more thinking, her military knowhow seems to be good enough to fight against the enemy. Which really is all that matters in the battlefield, as she's a soldier not a commander.
On the contrary, I think Dojo is trying to protect Kasahara rather than demean her. I suspect he is at a point where he is not sure if he is romantically attracted to her, or if he admires her romantic idealism.

Bear in mind that he was probably the first officer to notice her "monstrous" potential, and also the last to agree to accept her into the Task Force. Personally, I think the clincher occurred when Kasahara blurted out her dream of following in her Prince Charming's footsteps.

On one hand, Dojo feels that she is not ready for actual combat, but on the other, he wants to help her achieve her goal. Being the impetuous hothead that she is, there was a possibility that Kasahara could have been injured, or worse, killed in action. So, Dojo compromised. He'll let Kasahara into the Task Force for the moment, but he won't allow her into battle until she develops greater situational awareness.

It's noticeable that Dojo is taking extraordinary steps for her, to the point where Genda knows that she is his "special" subordinate. I think that says a lot about the leeway Dojo is extending to Kasahara without her knowing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoonKain3
All in all though, Shibasaki is the roxxorz. Despite being a gossip monger and extremely into her looks (at least compared to our heroine), this person has a very good head on her shoulders despite what most anime archetypes would say. By far and away my favourite character of the series so far.
Yup, Shibasaki is great, as long as you don't have any secrets to hide.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 11:04   Link #133
falloutgal
Madao
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dole Queue
Wahaha! What's with Tezuka's out-of-nowhere confession?! Such a cute expression to go with it as well ^_^ Though at the moment I think I still prefer Doujo as her love interest. I agree with TinyRedLeaf's above post, Doujo has conflicting interests and his personal sentiments seem to be colouring his judgement. Is he being overprotective, as even Tezuka (her biggest critic) thinks Kasahara should join the battle? Plus Genda taichou wanted her in. I've yet to watch ep 4 where I assume Kasahara will save the day, Doujo will change his opinion of her and fall even harder... But I really want to see her going out with Tezuka just for the laughs!

The museum battle in ep 3...found it rather boring, no suspense whatsoever, still think they should stick with the fluffy stuff...

The back story about the trigger incident at Hino - I take it that was the first major bloodshed in this 'war' so I can kinda believe that was enough to invoke full policy change and go all-out self-defense...but the politics and governance during this whole era still feels iffy. And all the exposition fell somewhat flat and anti-climatic for me. Call me bloodthirsty but I was expecting something on a larger scale to incite the present civil war. Will have to tell self it was the culmination of some long chain of events...

Last word, Shibasaki is evil - threatening with pimples...!
falloutgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 11:51   Link #134
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Yes indeed. The flashback underscores the seriousness of the confrontation between the two factions, which Kasahara failed to realise throughout her training. While firefights seem to kept to a minimum, people do get killed during operations. That's why Dojo feels the need to be very harsh on her, because she is treating the whole process like a high school game.



Judging from the cutscenes included in the OP, I think the Library Corps do use their assault rifles for certain operations. Like you've noted, they used their submachine guns in Ep2 and Ep3 probably because they anticipated most of the fighting to take place indoors where the extra range is not needed.

By the way, thanks for naming the weapons. I was wondering if the soldiers were using real weapons, because I thought the Library Task Force snipers were using Remington M700 rifles. Did I get that right?

As for why they trained with assault rifles instead of their submachine guns (I presume you are referring to Ep1), I think it's because they were undergoing endurance training. That being the case, it makes sense for the cadets to be carrying a heavier than normal load. During my cadet days, I was required to put on half-battle order (webbing, four dummy magazines, two full water bottles, M-16 rifle) while training on our obstacle course. Sometimes, we're required to put on full-battle order as well (half-battle order plus full pack). That's a total load of at least 20kg (44 pounds), if not more. I am as chibi as Dojo in real life, so you can imagine the nightmare I faced each time I had to clear the high wall (1.8m wall, first obstacle in the course) in full-battle order. It's extremely demoralising if you slam into the wall because you can't jump high enough on the first try.

The thing is, we only need to carry our rifles during the actual physical test. Needless to say, we literally flew through the test because we've already become so heavily conditioned by that time.

i pretend to have no real knowledge on military stuff, so thank you for the information about the training. learn something new every day.

mine you, you would think that would at leased mixed weapon layout of the force, there were taskforce and local library guards, one to man the outside another the inside. so at leased half of them could of been equipped with rifles.

which makes me think that they are only limited to weapons with low velocity/calibre size. imagine if they were allowed to employ light machine guns? or even auto shotguns? more bloodshed, even if library are outfitted with bulletproof doors.


As for the sniper rifle, not so sure. i don't know much about them,

But on visual alone, it does seem like the same model, right down to the black polymer body.

As for ep3 reason for holding her back, i agree. he wasn't doing it entirely on double standards as they claim. there is a real concern, his intuition told him she was not yet ready. Her indecisiveness about even sending the post card to tell her parents about the new but dangerous job promotion, raise some flags into what she might do when your caught in a full fledge fire fight.

Even a large number of experienced troops got hurt in that battle, a rookie would be extremely lucky to not get hit, especially one like her that seems to act on impulse and don't stop to think about the consequences or has a bout of indecisiveness.

but that is al moot now, she's getting her own action, i'm just worried if she's unarmed.

She doesn't seem to have any visible firearms on her, or any place to hide any either, i mean look at her skirt, something tells me if she has to taken them on bare handed, she gonna have to rip that skirt to move about. while the enemy has clothing that can easily hide any weapon.
__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 12:21   Link #135
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Trivia question: is that a daisy or a crysanthemum in the Library Corps' logo?

Logically, it ought to be a crysanthemum because it symbolises the Emperor. But on closer look, it resembles a daisy more. According to the Japanese language of flowers, a daisy represents "faith". Faith in truth and knowledge, perhaps? Moreover, it might be significant that the Library Corps chooses not to associate itself with the Emperor.

Even if it is a crysanthemum, it's white. A white crysanthemum represents "truth". Flower for thought.

=============

I've finally viewed all three subs and these are my opinions:

1) TSHNN: Arguably the weakest of the three, but it was the first to be released. Furthermore, it seemed like a speedsub, so I think it is unreasonable to expect more.

2) Ocha!: They're the only one to have used HD raws so far. Unfortunately, the subtitles suffer from grammatical and typographical errors. They've also gone for a literal translation, so some sentences come out awkward in English. However, if it's video quality you want, then this is the sub to get.

3) Euthanasia: The strongest of the three, in terms of quality of translation and typesetting. Unfortunately, they've used a SD video source, so the picture quality suffers.

That said, my heartfelt thanks to all three groups. We've gone from zero to three fansubs within a week, after three weeks of no subs. Good effort everyone. Please keep it up.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-04-28 at 14:19. Reason: for the fansub reviews
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 13:28   Link #136
cindialai
Tsukimori
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Send a message via MSN to cindialai
episode 2 the video was kind of slow for me maybe because my x264 vid decoder sucks
__________________
cindialai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 14:44   Link #137
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
Trivia question: is that a daisy or a crysanthemum in the Library Corps' logo?

Logically, it ought to be a crysanthemum because it symbolises the Emperor. But on closer look, it resembles a daisy more. According to the Japanese language of flowers, a daisy represents "faith". Faith in truth and knowledge, perhaps? Moreover, it might be significant that the Library Corps chooses not to associate itself with the Emperor.

Even if it is a crysanthemum, it's white. A white crysanthemum represents "truth". Flower for thought.
i reckon it's a crysanthemum, because looking at the crest i noticed the ends of the petals.

ifit was a daisy, they would be spear shaped.

but if yo look at the Japanese depiction of a crysanthemum, the edge are also not spear-shaped, plus the 12 o'clock petal is always shown to be in the background, as oppose to the others, plus the Diet (house of common/senate) crysanthemum badge has a total of 16 petals in the depiction. we can see 5, assume it is symmetrical, it has ten. if you copy the exact spacing of one petal, you can fit in an additional 6 on the left and right.



it also make sense, the media nazi want to destroy and hide the "truth" that is represented by the knowledge in a book.
__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 15:14   Link #138
Molenir
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
The problem I have with this story, apart from my earlier stated, thousand+ bullets = no hits complaint, is with the limits it has due to its point. Everyone seems to be saying that it should be taken as satire, or allegory. And I can see the point they're making. However when you do that in telling a story, you run up against the limits of satire, in that it becomes unrealistic when translated into a story.

More importantly, it becomes unable to answer questions in a reasonable manner. For example. What happens to the MIA soldiers who assault the libraries? Are they arrested? Does the library maintain prisons as well? Are they turned over to the authorities and charged with anything, or are they just released to come back the next day to assault and potentially kill more library personnel. What happens if they damaged books, or actually killed a member of the library staff? What happens in reverse, if when defending themselves, the librarians kill an MIA thug?

Since the MIA is allowed to invade the libraries, whats to stop the Libraries from prematurely attacking in order to stop them. The best defense is a good offense, and if they attacked and killed all the local MIA people, and killed or seriously wounded all the new ones attempting to invade, that would soon put a stop to their efforts. Of course the reverse is true, in which case we have a sort of cold war detente situation.

My point in asking these things, is that the construct as a whole, in its present form, simply doesn't hold up when approached with logic. Granted most animes are like this, where you have to suspend your disbelief, in order to enjoy the story. But when it comes to allegory or satire, you shouldn't have to. The parallels should be easily drawn, and the whole should be able to stand up to logic, or to put it simply, it fails.

Though I'm enjoying the series, its plot currently fails logically, and by extension so does the attempt at allegory.
Molenir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 15:20   Link #139
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Next, now that I've finally watched Ep3 fully translated, a few points came to mind. The following is my attempt to address Molenir's and DragoonKain3's objections.

(1)
Many of us have trouble imagining the political/diplomatic scenario depicted in the anime. Specifically, it seems impossible that a federal law can be countermanded by local forces in the national government ("why hasn't the ruling party amended one of the laws? Especially when public peace and human lives are at stake here. And that's not going into how the library act got passed in the first place," DragoonKain3).

Well, firstly, it's very interesting to observe that both factions employ well-established rules of engagement. It's been established that firefights can only take place at libraries, not in public spaces. Members of the MIB may arbitrarily confiscate books from bookstores, however, Library Corps members can prevent them from doing so, provided they are going to purchase the books. Again, because it's a public area, no combat is allowed.

Meanwhile, during the Siege of Odawara, it's extremely interesting that both factions declared their rules of engagement before combat, even though "the legitimacy of such actions" is still being pondered, presumably at the Japanese Diet.

So, let us imagine what would make such a scenario possible. My guess? Central government has fractured - there is no real central authority anymore. In effect, there are two governments in everything but name. One is "patriotic", the other is "moderate".

But both factions, left- and right-winged, wish to maintain the facade of central authority for the sake of retaining some measure of legitimacy. This political scenario has occurred in Japanese history several times. In the Heian era, the Fujiwara regents ruled Japan in the Emperor's name. Likewise in the Kamakura era, where the shoguns again ruled indirectly in the Emperor's name. The Meiji era (Rurouni Kenshin's era) was even more of a tangled political mess, but again, the various factions ruled through the Emperor's name, even though the Emperor was effectively powerless.

Don't ask me why the Japanese like to do this. Why rule in someone's name when you are the de facto ruler? This is simply a feature of their political and legal history. Their ancestors have set such precedents, and all later governments derive part of their legitimacy from these precedents. That is why, in spite of the "hot war" between the two factions, each side still goes to great lengths to observe their established rules. The first side to flout the rules loses legitimacy. In which case, it wouldn't matter how many guns they have, they'd lose power in popular opinion. Meanwhile, the wrangling continues at both national and local levels until a clear winner is established.

Perhaps at the beginning of the political crisis, the right-wing patriots could have overpowered the left-wing moderates. The Hino massacre clearly shows that they could have done just that. However, it's very likely that they miscalculated the effect of creating matyrs. It allowed the left-wing faction to legally justify the formation of their own self-defence forces. Once they've armed themselves, the disagreement could no longer be settled through words alone. The entire nature of the crisis has changed into an unofficial war.

Yet, it's very worthwhile to note a lot of give-and-take still happens in the background. The Task Force allowed the MIB to "confiscate" the third container of books, partly to allow them to "save face", and partly also because they can afford to do so (the Library Corps already had copies). So, things are really quite complex, from a political scientist's point-of-view. And naturally, it seems realistic too. (But of course, I'm biased. )

(2)
Secondly, it's worth wondering what the public really thinks about the whole crisis. They do seem to care enough to allow left-wing moderates to arm themselves. On the other hand, I suspect that most of them would rather not want to get involved in the conflict, if possible. Hence Kasahara's reluctance to inform her parents about her decision to join the Defence division of the Library Corps - like most parents, they would probably not want their children to endanger themselves when there is actually no direct need. Neither faction is directly abusing the public, so why be a busybody and get involved? In other words, the majority of the public probably supports the Library Corps, so long as it recruits someone else's children to do the dirty job.

That's what makes Kasahara important. I think the majority of the Library Corps joined out of a sense of duty and obligation to protect a cherished principle. It seems that few, if any, of them joined with the same passion and child-like zeal as Kasahara.

Which also means that the Library Corps would probably want to use Kasahara as a "mascot" some time down the road. They are already taking very great care to manage her public image, for example, by requesting the journalist to delete the embarrassing photos of Kasahara stumbling over Shibasaki.

(3)
Which brings me to my last point, which I brought up elsewhere. As SuperKnuckles observed, the media is hardly likely to be neutral in this conflict. After all, the MIB is out to gag them, so they do have vested interests in promoting the Library Corps. Ironically, that also means they are exercising a measure of self-censorship. Theoretically, those pictures are fair game to any publisher who wishes to use them in the name of "freedom of expression".

The journalist made a judgement call and decided to destroy the photos on the spot. Now, if you think about it, doesn't that make her as bad as the MIB? So, when is censorship wrong or right? Or rather, when does personal discretion become self-censorship? It's worth thinking about this. At least for me it is, since I'm an aspiring journalist.

EDIT:
(4)
Or, we can opt to shut our brains and enjoy a giggly chick-flick. Toshokan Sensou delivers this in spades.

Last edited by TinyRedLeaf; 2008-04-28 at 17:36. Reason: for grammar and style.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-04-28, 15:31   Link #140
Onizuka-GTO
Holy Beast ~Wuff!~
*Scanlator
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Leeds, UK
Age: 31
Send a message via MSN to Onizuka-GTO Send a message via Skype™ to Onizuka-GTO
too. complicated.

D:

*goes back to focus on the battle of hearts and library books*

pew pew. kyun kyun kyaa! etc etc etc....

*chants*

Media Nazi = bad Justice

Library = Good Justice + Good Read too.

*/chants*

okay. all good.

__________________
Onizuka-GTO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
noitamina, production i.g.

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.