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Old 2007-11-16, 01:41   Link #21
Phenomenal
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Moria using Odz STRENGTH is not Moria using his OWN strength. Moria does have a devil fruit you know.
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Old 2007-11-16, 01:54   Link #22
patnam
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but i dunno why Moria's bounty is higher than Sir Crocodile and "bear", although his power is weak......
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Old 2007-11-16, 02:04   Link #23
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NO. The entire arc was a waste, The dragged out Odz fights with the SH, Hogback, Moria etc. The only relevant highlights in this arc was Kuma (bringing us info about Blackbeard) and Ryuma (Zoro getting a new sword). Everything else that happened in TB was a waste.
Some might consider factors like, Brooke joining the crew and Luffy becoming even more imfamous for taking down another schihibukai as being "revevant highlights"... really what more did you expect to happen?
And what did you want out of the fights exactly, i mean now it sounds like your complaigning about fights dragging on, and yet you wanted more fighting... that's kind of mixed up

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Now Moria a Shichibukai got his *** kicked while running away after Odz is defeated? That's crap, So your telling me Moria got a 320 million dollar bounty for sitting in Giants stomach's his whole career? Having no power of his own?
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but i dunno why Moria's bounty is higher than Sir Crocodile and "bear", although his power is weak......
you got a weird definition of "no power of his own", cause he has certainly shown that he does have quite a bit of power. It's just that he makes much use powerful minions. Bounties do NOT reflect a characters personal strength, they reflect the overall threat the characters present. Luffy doesn't have a 300 million bounty because of his own power alone, part of that bounty comes from the company he keeps with him. swordsmen used swords, Marksmen use guns, Moria uses minions... it's all relative really... think about Mihawk fighting without his sword, sure he might be strong, but he won't be as strong as he is when he fights with his sword.


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Hell it was a waste for the SH to even try to beat Odz for freakin umpteen chapters because it was only a STALL for Luffy to come with a power-up to save the day. Bad writing.
if that's how you felt then why didn't you complaign about it last chapter... Sure Luffy didn't really start the ass kicking, but last chapter made it clear that strawhat crew wasn't gonna beat Oz and that luffy was gonna do that job, and that their only purpose was to stall Oz for Luffy to show up... long fight or short, that fact from last chapter doesn't change...

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Moria using Odz STRENGTH is not Moria using his OWN strength. Moria does have a devil fruit you know.
it is only through Moria's shadow powers that he is able to use Oz's strength and add to it... When you think about it, Moria using Oz is not that much different then Mihawk using his sword
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Old 2007-11-16, 02:14   Link #24
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Moria would've been a very real threat to the government I'd imagine. He wasn't focused on getting strong as hell minions back then, so he could take someones shadow then poof they're dead if they're in the sunlight. Combined with his own shadow that he can make it a physical being, how is that NOT dangerous? The advantage the SHs have here is that he wants their shadows, not their life (luffy's at least, but I'm sure he wouldn't complain about having Zoros and Sanjis).

I'm not exactly satisfied how the fight turned out, but it's not like his bounty is just a decoration.
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Old 2007-11-16, 02:14   Link #25
Phenomenal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Some might consider factors like, Brooke joining the crew and Luffy becoming even more imfamous for taking down another schihibukai as being "revevant highlights"... really what more did you expect to happen? And what did you want out of the fights exactly, i mean now it sounds like your complaigning about fights dragging on, and yet you wanted more fighting... that's kind of mixed up
Considering IF Brooke even joins the crew. The entire arc was a waste. Odz fight was dragged out but we don't get any one-on-one with a Shichibukai? Bad writing.

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you got a weird definition of "no power of his own", cause he has certainly shown that he does have quite a bit of power. It's just that he makes much use powerful minions. Bounties do NOT reflect a characters personal strength, they reflect the overall threat the characters present. Luffy doesn't have a 300 million bounty because of his own power alone, part of that bounty comes from the company he keeps with him. swordsmen used swords, Marksmen use guns, Moria uses minions... it's all relative really... think about Mihawk fighting without his sword, sure he might be strong, but he won't be as strong as he is when he fights with his sword.
No, Moria had a devil fruit, Moria IS a Shichibukai and I am quite sure your ability has ALOT to do with your POWER. *Turns to Look at Blackbeard*

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if that's how you felt then why didn't you complaign about it last chapter... Sure Luffy didn't really start the ass kicking, but last chapter made it clear that strawhat crew wasn't gonna beat Oz and that luffy was gonna do that job, and that their only purpose was to stall Oz for Luffy to show up... long fight or short, that fact from last chapter doesn't change...
Cause Phenomenol thought that once Luffy pwned Odz he would have to go head up with a Shichibukai (bring some excitement)...Moria, but I opened my lunch bag only to have a baloney sandwich.

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it is only through Moria's shadow powers that he is able to use Oz's strength and add to it... When you think about it, Moria using Oz is not that much different then Mihawk using his sword
Actually not, Moria is using Odz STRENGTH he only used HIS own devil fruit powers to protect Odz and add a little bit of tricks. Whoopdey do.

BAD WRITING!!
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Old 2007-11-16, 02:25   Link #26
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Considering IF Brooke even joins the crew. The entire arc was a waste. Odz fight was dragged out but we don't get any one-on-one with a Shichibukai? Bad writing.
Honestly, given the love for Brooke, if he doesn't join the crew the arc would be SOMEWHAT of a waste.

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No, Moria had a devil fruit, Moria IS a Shichibukai and I am quite sure your ability has ALOT to do with your POWER. *Turns to Look at Blackbeard*
It almost sounds like you're saying Morias minions have nothing to do with his devil fruit power. Not all DF are made to enhance your physical power, for example the Noro Noro fruit. Like Slayerx said, Morias minions aren't much different from Mihawks sword. They both obey their master fully.


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Actually not, Moria is using Odz STRENGTH he only used HIS own devil fruit powers to protect Odz and add a little bit of tricks. Whoopdey do.
Do you even realize that if not for Morias DF powers, the crew wouldn't have even fought Oz?
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Old 2007-11-16, 02:38   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Nuzzles View Post
Honestly, given the love for Brooke, if he doesn't join the crew the arc would be SOMEWHAT of a waste.
Even if Brooke joins the arc would still be a waste.

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It almost sounds like you're saying Morias minions have nothing to do with his devil fruit power. Not all DF are made to enhance your physical power, for example the Noro Noro fruit. Like Slayerx said, Morias minions aren't much different from Mihawks sword. They both obey their master fully.
NO! Mihawk's power IS raw unlike Moria using Odz strength.

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Do you even realize that if not for Morias DF powers, the crew wouldn't have even fought Oz?
The crew was fighting Odz before Moria jumped in. Moria using Odz SOME MORE is a waste.
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Old 2007-11-16, 03:09   Link #28
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Moria using Odz STRENGTH is not Moria using his OWN strength. Moria does have a devil fruit you know.
How? Odz was alive and kicking because Moria used his "own" "devil-fruit powers" to achieve that. Odz's fighting, regardless of Moria's interference, was Moria's strength.

And, I agree with the reference to Mihawk. Odz as a body - not with his soul - is not much different than the sword Mihawk carries. Mihawk needs to use his abilities to make the sword work - otherwise the sword is useless as it is, and that is the same with Moria. And, the way he tried to command Odz is a lot similar to Mihawk commanding his sword.

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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
The crew was fighting Odz before Moria jumped in. Moria using Odz SOME MORE is a waste.
Actually, if Moria wouldn't have joined the fight, Odz would have lost. Moria changed the course of the fight.
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Old 2007-11-16, 06:12   Link #29
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Moria would simply survive 5 minutes longer even if he saved himself (without luffy fainted) so I see no reason for "Bad Writing" just because we lost one shichibukai.Sounds lore like:

Ace dies and people calls it bad writing
Moria dies/loses and people calls it bad writing
Sanji dies/loses and people calls it bad writing
Blackbeard dies/loses and people calls it bad writing and rest random whinings...

Thats not bad writing, its simply overrated fanboyism.Moria lived more than enough, he chose to fight in Oz rather than going one one.Besides we still have 5 more shichibukai, if we keep getting replacements all the time ,letting "cool" characters alive and allow them to get back for revenge then this series will never ever end...Oh hell I think this was one of the best arc ever and dont care abut rest, it still keeps going

ps: I just cant think what you will think if Luffy owns Kuma before leaving.shichibukai is not the only reason making it One Piece
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Old 2007-11-16, 15:18   Link #30
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Well chapter translation is out!

And from what it sounds like, Moria wasn't beaten down while retreating, but beaten down when he was about to start fighting himself. He yells out to Oz that he's about to join the fight just as soon as he leaves the cockpit, but just as he's leaving, that's when Luffy gives Moria a nice nightmare gumo gumo Pistol to the face. It sounds like it was enough to KO Moria, but after that Luffy finishes them both off with gumo gumo Storm... So if the Pistol didn't KO Moria, the storm probably did... sounds like Moria may indeed been down and out... i can see Moria waking up and fighting after a pistol, but not after a storm

Funny thing to note is that the rollling pirates think that Luffy is about 3 times stronger after his upgrade to nightmare Luffy... considering how strong Luffy is normally, 3 times is quite a lot... it does make me wonder how normal Luffy would have faired... he probably would have been below the strength needed... a 2 times Luffy would have probably given Oz an even fight instead of 3 times Luffy delivering a quick defeat.

Also, at the end of the capter, the rolling pirates says that all the shadows are returnign to their owners. So the shadow issue does sound like it's been resolved. This is what i would find to be questionable writing... it either means that Moria was lying about the shadows not returning even if he's KO'd, or Oda just messed up. this ending does feel a bit rushed and that's when such screw ups tend to happen... i kinda like my, island sinks and all the zombies get purified idea better

But i would point out that, Moria not fighting solo against Luffy is NOT bad writing... wanting to see Moria fight is nothing more than personal taste. Bad writing(specifically bad story telling) is when something doesn't make sense, something is misleading or when th author contradicts himself, and Moria getting beaten in this fashion does none of that since it does seem to fit in with the situation and Moria's character. He highly underestimated Luffy and never expected Luffy to come flying with such high power; he also relied heavily on Oz... as such, he did not get serious right away and when he did decide to get serious it was too late and he got himself KO'd...
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Old 2007-11-16, 15:44   Link #31
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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
How? Odz was alive and kicking because Moria used his "own" "devil-fruit powers" to achieve that. Odz's fighting, regardless of Moria's interference, was Moria's strength.

And, I agree with the reference to Mihawk. Odz as a body - not with his soul - is not much different than the sword Mihawk carries. Mihawk needs to use his abilities to make the sword work - otherwise the sword is useless as it is, and that is the same with Moria. And, the way he tried to command Odz is a lot similar to Mihawk commanding his sword.

Actually, if Moria wouldn't have joined the fight, Odz would have lost. Moria changed the course of the fight.
Moria used Odz COMBAT STRENGHT that is not Moria's own power in battle.

Again Mihawk is using his OWN strength to make the sword do damage not using another fighter's powers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx
Well chapter translation is out!

And from what it sounds like, Moria wasn't beaten down while retreating, but beaten down when he was about to start fighting himself. He yells out to Oz that he's about to join the fight just as soon as he leaves the cockpit, but just as he's leaving, that's when Luffy gives Moria a nice nightmare gumo gumo Pistol to the face. It sounds like it was enough to KO Moria, but after that Luffy finishes them both off with gumo gumo Storm... So if the Pistol didn't KO Moria, the storm probably did... sounds like Moria may indeed been down and out... i can see Moria waking up and fighting after a pistol, but not after a storm
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Old 2007-11-16, 15:46   Link #32
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Moria used Odz COMBAT STRENGHT that is not Moria's own power in battle.

Again Mihawk is using his OWN strength to make the sword do damage not using another fighter's powers.



You're taking the meaning of strength far too literally.
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Old 2007-11-16, 15:59   Link #33
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Also, at the end of the capter, the rolling pirates says that all the shadows are returnign to their owners.
I think these are the shadows that are placed in Luffy. We have only seen the shadows leaving Luffy. We haven't seen any shadow leaving zombies (like Odz), and entering others' (like Luffy's) bodies.

So, I guess, it is not concluded yet. Moria is down (though, he can awake at any time, it may only need a few seconds with the white eyeball regaining its colour - it happened to Zoro, Sanji and others a few times already), and he still hasn't done anything for the shadows returning to their original owners.

So, I will wait for the next few chapters to make a decision on the finishing of the arc.

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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Moria used Odz COMBAT STRENGHT that is not Moria's own power in battle.

Again Mihawk is using his OWN strength to make the sword do damage not using another fighter's powers.
Moria combined his own strength with Odz's strength in the battle, especially in the second part, when he used his devil fruit ability to transform Odz's body. That, gomu gomu power is not Odz's own strength.

And, Odz is still a tool after all, that is created by another person and used by Moria. That is the same with Mihawk's sword. And, lastly, there is a meaning to having special swords in this world, it may not be required to illustrate the strength of someone, but it can be used to test his abilities at max - and Odz is just like that for Moria (like the huge sword Mihawk carries on his back).
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Old 2007-11-16, 16:16   Link #34
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Originally Posted by The Phenomenol View Post
Moria used Odz COMBAT STRENGHT that is not Moria's own power in battle.

Again Mihawk is using his OWN strength to make the sword do damage not using another fighter's powers.
Moria uses his powers to make Oz stretch and in turn makes Oz more powerful... Yes Oz has his own strength, but when it comes down to it, the same could be about Mihawk's sword... it's descirbed as the strongest sword in the world. Mihawk adds his strnegth to the strength of his sword to allow the sword to use even greater strength... Mihawk's sword will be strong in anybody's hands, but Mihawk makes it even stronger. and them goes for Oz and Moria, Oz is strong on his own but Moria makes him stronger.

when you think about it Oz is kind of like a sword, only with a bit more free will and with more varied fighting ability.

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Moria is down (though, he can awake at any time, it may only need a few seconds with the white eyeball regaining its colour - it happened to Zoro, Sanji and others a few times already)
It's possible, but i doubt it... afterall, Gumo no gumo Storm is the same attack the mamanged to KO croc, and this storm has about 3 times the power behind it... i don't think i can see Moria getting back after being hit with that kind of strength.
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Old 2007-11-16, 16:33   Link #35
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Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
It's possible, but i doubt it... afterall, Gumo no gumo Storm is the same attack the mamanged to KO croc, and this storm has about 3 times the power behind it... i don't think i can see Moria getting back after being hit with that kind of strength.
Moria is a few times bigger than Crocodile, and his bounty is more than 3 times. Let's hope that means something when we evaluate the end of the fight.
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Old 2007-11-16, 17:35   Link #36
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i really enjoyed this arc...i hafta admit, when it first started i was like ZOMBIES IN ONE PIECE? WTFBBQ N00B

but yeah this arc has been creative, funny, and enjoyable...it doesn't always hafta make sense. if you think about it, major villains in one piece have been beaten after beating the crap out of luffy and co. doesn't make a lot of sense to me but i still enjoy reading it!
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Old 2007-11-16, 20:12   Link #37
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Finally saw the chapter, did not disappoint.

Although, one question...

Moria: Where did Strawhat get this power?

how could he not know the possible uses of shadows inserted in human bodies?

Also, Lola said he had 2-3 minutes left with the shadows. So that means luffy took way too long to get there, or maybe with the large amount of shadows he had in him the time limit was lower than what those dudes thought it would be?
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Old 2007-11-16, 21:02   Link #38
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Wow!!! Just read the chapter and Moria got OWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2007-11-16, 22:34   Link #39
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Just read he chapter... a couple of innaccuracies with the translation i read before...
1) the zombies mention their only being 2-3 minutes left before Luffy lost the shadows, not that he was 2-3 times stronger (i'm guessing Luffy lost time by taking a few minutes looking for Moria, and it probably took a few mintues for them to stuff all those shadows into Luffy... so it's like 2-3 minutes till he starts loosing shadows 4-5 till he losses them all, or something like that...)
2) Moria WAS retreating from the cockpit, not getting ready to fight himself
(grant it, i do kinda question if the translation i read was wrong, or that particular scanlation was wrong... hmm...)

As for the shadows... it's kind of uncertain with the one panel towards the end... wheather that's all the shadows of the various zombies flying into the air, or if they are just Luffy's shadows. and since that's uncertain we can't varify how true that last statments by the pirates are true... afterall, if it is the case that the shadows won't return if Moria is KO'd, they might not now that and as such would be quick to make the mistake of calling out victory prematurely

It was really quite the ass kicking chapter... i mean, watching a monster like Oz who was just dominating the whole strawhat crew get beat around like that has a lot of impact.

One grip i had though was that Luffy used the sword to cut through Oz instead of cutting off his right arm... i mean, there was a lot of a build up towards Oz loosing his right arm; brooke firing himself through the shoulder, Chopper seeing it as a weak point, and then chopper, sanji, and Zoro all take shots at it in hopes of breaking it... Now THAT's something i feel like their should have been resolution to. that's something i might consider bad writing, putting in all that build up with no resolution (just as i was saying in a pervious chapter about the possible salt disappearing... until it came back)... at the very least i would have like to see the arm chopped off or atleast break. As in all the damage Oz took that arm would have ended up leading to his downfall or something like that... like for example, just as Oz stretches out to hit Luffy when he's vulnarable, his arm breaks off and the attack is ruined... Moria vs Luffy one-on-one on the other hand... well, there wasn't any REAL build up to that fight except in our personal tastes and expections of what we expect to see out of one piece (we expected it to happen cause that's just how things go in shonen and one piece, however, Oda never made any kind of foreshadowing or anything saying that such a battle would occur), and our personal taste and expections don't count, so it terms of good/bad writing it's all right for it to end the arc without it

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Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Moria is a few times bigger than Crocodile, and his bounty is more than 3 times. Let's hope that means something when we evaluate the end of the fight.
Well, when it comes down to it, Bigger =! tougher (Moria in particular doesn't look like the most physcially fit character)... and to a certain extent the same goes for bounties ... and we do know that the nightmare thunder storm has a hell of a lot more power behind it then a normal storm

grant it though... if Oz were to get up again, i would not be as surprised... Oz is a hell of a lot bigger than Croc and has shown he's got the toughness to match his size.

Last edited by Slayerx; 2007-11-16 at 23:03.
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Old 2007-11-17, 00:22   Link #40
ShikaShika
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I was quite pleasantly suprised that the fight ended quicker than I would have thought, though I'd preferably have seen one more chapter of fighting. I certainly don't think this arc was a waste, well no more than the other filler arcs anyway. Brooke joins (you know he will), Kuma appears (and we've yet to hear about Ace) and Zoro gets his new sword, and who knows what more during the following resolution chapters. On top of that it was quite enjoyable.
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