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Old 2007-12-04, 23:03   Link #101
Yakhobian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dauthik View Post
It took about 10 minutes.
Sounds like you have about 10 minutes more patience than the average leecher.

But in all seriousness, there definitely is a noticeable trend towards H264 in more and more groups. Though I have a feeling that XviD encodes still have a while to go before they are effectively phased out of general use.
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Old 2007-12-05, 01:04   Link #102
Vexx
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I'm also noticing that at least *some* of the groups are using h264 for compression advantages that shrink the overall size of the file or permit quality improvements without significant file size increase (a minor win for the Intarweb traffic congestion).

My original argument for sticking with 'avi' was that it was sort of the 'rtf doc' of video and worked across many platforms including handhelds.... that argument is fading as the average computer hardware improves and the DRMization of handhelds takes them substantially out of the picture so screw 'em.

I suspect the more advanced thinking from the handheld folks will soon allow for imports of codec updates especially if open-source handheld operating systems take hold (e.g. Android, etc)
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Old 2007-12-06, 01:49   Link #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm also noticing that at least *some* of the groups are using h264 for compression advantages that shrink the overall size of the file or permit quality improvements without significant file size increase (a minor win for the Intarweb traffic congestion).

My original argument for sticking with 'avi' was that it was sort of the 'rtf doc' of video and worked across many platforms including handhelds.... that argument is fading as the average computer hardware improves and the DRMization of handhelds takes them substantially out of the picture so screw 'em.

I suspect the more advanced thinking from the handheld folks will soon allow for imports of codec updates especially if open-source handheld operating systems take hold (e.g. Android, etc)

Again the minority. It's up to the downloaders to take some initiative and make it playable on their preferred player. I don't see why fansbbers have to take every single niche player into account. Its not their problem. Fansubs are mean to played on PC's with CCCP and MPC mainly. They'd be forever encoding one episode to like 50 or 60 versions, instead of timely releases. I find it ridiculous that fansubbers have to take ever single users needs into account for a service they provide voluntarily.
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Old 2007-12-09, 17:10   Link #104
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In response to the original post, is that a recent series?

It looks like absolute dog turd. Is that how you guys are going on now? I leave the scene for like a year and we're back to smoothing things like it's 2001?

Look man, I am looking on answers, and I can handle the truth!

Edit: Is it about me coming out of retirement and owning everything with my 3 year old AVS file, or is it about Crumja still owning everyone with a 7 year old reprogrammed 2DCleaner?
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Old 2007-12-09, 21:12   Link #105
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It's about extremely shitty warpsharped raws of a series that aired in the first half of 2006, so no need to go all "hurf I r bettar" about it.

Then again some people just don't seem to "get" filtering, but that's getting rarer and raws are getting better.
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Old 2007-12-11, 03:01   Link #106
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Why should I use mkv if it looks the same as Xvid in resolutions fansub groups release their subs even though it takes more CPU power?

My PC can handle Mkv files but there's no reason to act cool and use a new (yearight) yet impractical format. After all, I'm not in it for the quality, I just want to watch the episode.

As for the forcing people to use H.264 thing,
Meh, we all know what happens when the carriage tries to pull the horse.
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Old 2007-12-11, 03:34   Link #107
jpwong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
As for the forcing people to use H.264 thing,
Meh, we all know what happens when the carriage tries to pull the horse.
Fansub groups forced people to upgrade from DivX to XviD back when we were all using the ver. 0.6 level builds, look where we are now.

Not that there weren't bumps in the road, people who wanted to stay with DivX3/4, but Xvid is used almost universally now. The two biggest holdbacks for H.264 right now are that it's not practicle to mux into AVI containers, and people do love their legacy formats, and that there's a marked increase in computer power required going from Xvid->H.264 compared to Divx4->Xvid.

IIRC there's no difference in cpu use on an mkv compared to an identically muxed avi file, the only reason you'd see it "take more CPU power" is if they swaped to a codec that requires more processing power such as H.264 or uped the bitrate, at which point they are no longer the same video.
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Old 2007-12-11, 03:39   Link #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Why should I use mkv if it looks the same as Xvid in resolutions fansub groups release their subs even though it takes more CPU power?
someone please teach him (/her?) difference between container and codec...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
My PC can handle Mkv files but there's no reason to act cool and use a new (yearight) yet impractical format. After all, I'm not in it for the quality, I just want to watch the episode.
please define impractical...
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Old 2007-12-11, 03:47   Link #109
Thingle
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No. You guys aren't answering my question. Why does my CPU need to work harder to play a file that looks the same as with another format that requires less power?
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:02   Link #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
No. You guys aren't answering my question. Why does my CPU need to work harder to play a file that looks the same as with another format that requires less power?
as for softsub - reducing amount of re-encoding significantly. (and improves quality, too - but since you don't care for quality, I guess anything works for you)
as for h264 - reducing bandwidth usage (yes, it affects me)
as for mkv - it enables two points above
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:04   Link #111
Thingle
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So this whole shift to H264 is more of a benefit for the subbers than us viewers? (let's say in 704x396 resolution, where Xvid and H264 looks identical)
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:09   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
So this whole shift to H264 is more of a benefit for the subbers than us viewers?
in short:
less re-encodes -> faster release -> win for viewer
smaller size -> faster distribution -> win for viewer
more a benefit for the subber?
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:10   Link #113
cyth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
So this whole shift to H264 is more of a benefit for the subbers than us viewers?
Depends what you want, but generally the answer is "Yes".
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:13   Link #114
Thingle
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ahhh. I see.
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:23   Link #115
checkers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
So this whole shift to H264 is more of a benefit for the subbers than us viewers? (let's say in 704x396 resolution, where Xvid and H264 looks identical)
No, it's of benefit to everyone apart from those with CPUs that cannot play D1 resolution softsubbed h264, which is anything lower than a p4 or equivalent. Those people will have to convert the file themselves if they want to watch it.

Reasons why it's worth changing to h264-softsub:
o the efficiency of h264 is greater. This means greater quality in the same size, equal quality in a lower size, or some mix of these two.
o softsubs are higher quality. If you have a powerful CPU it's possible to keep softsubs nice and sharp no matter the video resolution, which I always appreciate. It would also make encoding far easier. Just time the subs and whack them into the container at the end. No more worrying about vfr, typos or such delaying the whole process.
And so why use mkv? Simply because it's the only format that support both of the above.
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:34   Link #116
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It's an implied benefit.

Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean everyone can't. Some people do appreciate the improvement in compressibility that h.264 provides. And the higher compression rate of h.264 enables fansubbers to release versions like HD with reasonable file sizes, so if they choose.

Aside from h.264, mkv also provides some benefits over avi, such as better support for softsubs (mind you, I'm not a softsub fan...), wider choice of audio format, chapter support, variable frame rate support, etc etc... (And mp4 shares the chapter support and vfr aspect of the benefit.) Even if we use older codecs like xvid, I would still support these newer containers.

And soon enough, you maybe watching h.264 contents without realizing it, as new version of flash player now supports h.264 contents. But this is actually off topic in this thread...
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Old 2007-12-11, 09:14   Link #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkers View Post
No, it's of benefit to everyone apart from those with CPUs that cannot play D1 resolution softsubbed h264, which is anything lower than a p4 or equivalent. Those people will have to convert the file themselves if they want to watch it.

Reasons why it's worth changing to h264-softsub:
o the efficiency of h264 is greater. This means greater quality in the same size, equal quality in a lower size, or some mix of these two.
o softsubs are higher quality. If you have a powerful CPU it's possible to keep softsubs nice and sharp no matter the video resolution, which I always appreciate. It would also make encoding far easier. Just time the subs and whack them into the container at the end. No more worrying about vfr, typos or such delaying the whole process.
And so why use mkv? Simply because it's the only format that support both of the above.
redundancy! prolonged version of this, LOL
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Old 2007-12-11, 10:01   Link #118
DryFire
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If you haven't noticed they need to have it hammered into their heads multiple (hundreds of?) times.
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Old 2007-12-11, 19:38   Link #119
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Another feature of mkv is Ordered Chapters, which can allow you to encode an OP or ED once and merely reference it, saving lots of space over the span of a series. It can also allow you to do neat things like re-arrange scenes (For example, one could theoretically make a Baccano! that could be watched from chronological start to end using the normal episodes as references.)
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Old 2007-12-11, 21:11   Link #120
zoot
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Generally, the increased efficiency of h264 isn't taken advantage of. That is, groups releasing XviD and h264 in parallel are usually encoding them to the same size, instead of to the same quality. For most shows, this means the h264 looks the same as the XviD, since the typical 180-200 meg target size looks fine with XviD, and is excessive for h264. It matters a lot more for HD shows, where the h264 is often higher resolution. SD shows being released in h264 could probably stand to be encoded at a smaller size. (This would probably scare people, though.)

There are good reasons for both hardsubbed AVIs and softsubbed MKVs, at this point. Watching videos on things other than a PC isn't a niche target; lots of people want to watch shows on their TV, and it's a serious hassle for most people to have a PC in their living room to play shows. (h264 support is showing up in standalone players now--the 360 just got support for it--but not so much MKV/softsub support.)

Aside from quality, I also like softsubs because they're flexible: I can nudge the font size, change the font if it's awful, turn them off if I feel like a challenge, and I can even edit them if something bothers me enough. One show, for some reason, had a single episode only subbed in 4:3; I was able to find a 16:9 raw and remux with the subs, which I couldn't have done with hardsubs. It also lets you put multiple versions of the subs in; a couple I've seen had a separate track with less inline sub notes, which I prefer.

(One group is encoding h264 at twice the bitrate as XviD. I don't know why; that's backwards. I can't even view their h264 encodes on my system.)
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