AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Gundam

Notices

View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 50 36.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 26.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 17.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 10.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 5.07%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.72%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.72%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.72%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2007-11-19, 19:05   Link #261
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist View Post
Please define bombing the shit out of civilians, because I'm pretty sure they use precision bombs in urban areas that limit the destruction to the target area and not the surrounding buildings. And in most cases commanders launch ground operations to capture the terrorists/jihadists if possible, rather than level their hide out.

I think you have the Americans confused with the terrorists who are willing to bomb the shit out of their own people with IEDs, car bombs, suicide bombers and mortar attacks just to kill a few Americans.
So? CB only attacked Moralia's MS, and whether those destroyed MS fall down on a civilian building is not something they can bother with. They can be called terrorists for sure, but some collateral damage like an exploding Moralia MS crushing a civilian building is surely not the reason.
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:00   Link #262
4Tran
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by edf91
But it does - it increase AEU's "standing" - before, AEU is behind Union and HRL in terms of military power and technology standing, but now it is going to change, due to AEU getting a "boost"
I don't think that it's quite as simple as that. The places where the AEU trails are: their elevator isn't completed yet (obviously, they're already trying their best to catch up), and their military isn't as strong as the other powers. Celestial Being's attack only serves to allow the AEU a free hand in building arms (for some reason, none of the other powers seem to operate under any sort of arms limitation treaty), but this is restricted by industrial and energy capabilities as well, so not much is going to change in the short term. In the long term, the AEU had already been clandestinely violating their part of an arms treaty - until the Gundams revealed what they were up to, so any imposition in that sense is due to Celestial Being to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edf91
Probably need to refresh my earlier viewing of Gundam 00, but if they were stressing the part about Zero sum game, then it might not be a zero sum game anymore, since the balance of power has changed slightly. With the status-quo "broken," there bound to be interesting things happening, and maybe this is what CB is looking for.
I'm still not sure what the opening narration is alluding to, but the power relationships in Gundam 00 don't resemble a zero-sum game at all. Essentially, a zero-sum game is one where every outcome adds up to zero. Hence if the AEU were to gain X rewards in a particular scenario, the aggregate rewards reaped by the HRL and the Union would have to add up to -X. If the AEU were to gain Y, and the Union were to gain Z, then the HRL would gain -(Y+Z). In the show, we can see the power blocs gaining and losing power, military strength, etc. without it affecting that of other powers.

The phrase "zero-sum game" doesn't really have anything to do with maintaining the status quo at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist
In a scale of 1 to 10, with one being definite terrorist (i.e guys who do car bombs, suicide bombings etc), and 10 being conventional force, I'd say CB is a 4. They engage in conventional warfare, but have terroristic ( is that even a word? lol ) goals. Also, while their goal is noble, they are having the same impact a terrorist would in the world, not to mention that their total disregard for innocent lives is very disturbing.
Tactically, Celestial Being actually acts in a fairly conventional manner, but their strategies are highly unconventional. In this latter sense, they're not altogether different from other asymmetric combatants. Furthermore, their actions seem to conflict with their stated goals, so their true objectives are rather murky at this point. In a way, they behave like terrorists who have a great deal of military power (a bit of a oxymoron in the real world). The biggest problem with their actions is that there is nothing to legitimize many of them.
__________________
The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won...
4Tran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:01   Link #263
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolutionist
In a scale of 1 to 10, with one being definite terrorist (i.e guys who do car bombs, suicide bombings etc), and 10 being conventional force, I'd say CB is a 4.
So the guys who bombed those buildings in Oklahoma are a 4 and Al Queda is a 9? I think you might be over-thinking this a bit (and yes I've read your points going back to early on in the thread)...In CB's case, all that matters is the world-politics IMO...Argumentatively within that set, they are terrorists...You in for a dime, you in for a dollar, and anyone with the political influence within the Gundam00verse can easily argue that they are terrorists..The degrees of which is morso personal subjectivity than something tangible to solidify the implication of what they really are....Any rouge organization not officially representing a nation that's killing $hit in other nations are subject to this clearly in the political realm (Which in almost every case of terrorism drives this perception)...

LOL I remember a very loooooooooooong and heated debate on this in another Gundam series not to long ago....I believe the Clyne Faction were in the same shoes as CB...Obviously CB's shoes fit a little better since the audience isn't predisposed to supporting the side that has established "good guy" characters...

Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
After Fa Yuiry got to pilot the Zeta?

Sayla Mass, Karen Joshua, Christina Mackenzie, Emma Sheen and Four Murasame were all competant Gundam pilots. Aina Saharin and Monique Cadillac both did well considering they were flying for Zeon. Reccoa Londe did well for AEUG even if she went down hill after Scirroco stroked her ear.

Cecily Fairchild didn't do so badly either.
Don't forget Lu Luka (ZZ)...She's the only female G-pilot I'd seriously consider letting be the lead character in her own show...The chick was sexy, had guts, and had personality...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:10   Link #264
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahak View Post
After Fa Yuiry got to pilot the Zeta?

Sayla Mass, Karen Joshua, Christina Mackenzie, Emma Sheen and Four Murasame were all competant Gundam pilots. Aina Saharin and Monique Cadillac both did well considering they were flying for Zeon. Reccoa Londe did well for AEUG even if she went down hill after Scirroco stroked her ear.

Cecily Fairchild didn't do so badly either.
Aren't we forgetting someone? You know one of the greatest pilot in Z and ZZ Gundam, Haman Karn. And remember the amount of female pilots in V Gundam, who were either decent or one of the best pilot in the whole show.
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:17   Link #265
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperlion View Post
Aren't we forgetting someone? You know one of the greatest pilot in Z and ZZ Gundam, Haman Karn. And remember the amount of female pilots in V Gundam, who were either decent or one of the best pilot in the whole show.
Haman Kahn (Which always rolls of the tongue better which is why I use that interpretation of the name), never piloted a Gundam to my recollection...I believe the original question was about piloting Gundams...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:18   Link #266
dreamless
/Ultimate Magic Attack!!!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Time Warp/Future
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperlion View Post
Aren't we forgetting someone? You know one of the greatest pilot in Z and ZZ Gundam, Haman Karn. And remember the amount of female pilots in V Gundam, who were either decent or one of the best pilot in the whole show.
Like I said before, the best female pilots are Haman and Katejina, with Dorothy being a remote 3rd place I guess
dreamless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:27   Link #267
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Haman Kahn (Which always rolls of the tongue better which is why I use that interpretation of the name), never piloted a Gundam to my recollection...I believe the original question was about piloting Gundams...
Well the original question mentions Noin, so I figure it was generally talking about female pilots. And Aina, Monique, and Reccoa was also mentioned so why not mention Haman?
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:41   Link #268
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperlion View Post
Well the original question mentions Noin, so I figure it was generally talking about female pilots. And Aina, Monique, and Reccoa was also mentioned so why not mention Haman?
I can't remember the poster which asked the question first but IIRC it was about Gundams, but if it's not then you can throw Enil El (GX), Puru, Puru2 (ZZ), and Steller in the mix aswell...Yeah GSD sucked but Steller is the only pilot to pretty much own FREEDOM...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 20:51   Link #269
Nvis
Grumpy Senior
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Yeah GSD sucked but Steller is the only pilot to pretty much own FREEDOM...
Since when Stellar owned Freedom?

Oh come on, Lunamaria deserves some credit(able to match Gundams in a Zaku). And also stopped Requiem.
Nvis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 21:07   Link #270
Honey_and_Cleaver
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
setsuna.f.seiei, probrably a character seems to be getting somewhat stupider as the episodes continue, the fact is, i dont know whats he so angry about when its the sin he himself commited,so far he never says anything or have any personal thoughts, crazy or think hes gundam god, hes super childish and immature although he tries to behave like an adult.
__________________
LOLIKON STRATOS! TA-RU-GE-TO! NARAI DE UTZEEEEYYYY!


Current Anime following: Gundam 00, Goshuushi-sama Ninomiya-kun, Gambling Apocalypse Kaiji, Night Wizard, Dragonout the Resonance, Minami-Ke, Shion no Ou, Shugo no Chara!, BLUE DROP, Rental Magica, Kimikiss pure rogue, Moyashimon,Majin Tantei Nourgami Neuro,Clannad
Honey_and_Cleaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 21:18   Link #271
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
setsuna.f.seiei, probrably a character seems to be getting somewhat stupider as the episodes continue, the fact is, i dont know whats he so angry about when its the sin he himself commited,so far he never says anything or have any personal thoughts, crazy or think hes gundam god, hes super childish and immature although he tries to behave like an adult.
Which part of "I killed my parents for this man, but his "Holy War" was one huge lie" wasn't worth being angry about?

For that matter, what's so childish about hating someone who betrayed you? Being an adult doesn't mean being a heartless robot.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 21:22   Link #272
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
setsuna.f.seiei, probrably a character seems to be getting somewhat stupider as the episodes continue, the fact is, i dont know whats he so angry about when its the sin he himself commited,so far he never says anything or have any personal thoughts, crazy or think hes gundam god, hes super childish and immature although he tries to behave like an adult.
Ignoring the overall situation of a war-torn, radicalized Kurdish Republic seems to the support for this line of thought.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 21:50   Link #273
wingdarkness
Retweet Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey_and_Cleaver View Post
setsuna.f.seiei, probrably a character seems to be getting somewhat stupider as the episodes continue, the fact is, i dont know whats he so angry about when its the sin he himself commited,so far he never says anything or have any personal thoughts, crazy or think hes gundam god, hes super childish and immature although he tries to behave like an adult.
Dude after reading many of your posts the last few weeks I'm starting to think you're a plant...I could carve that post up six-ways til next Sunday but surely someone else wants to give it a try...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvis
Since when Stellar owned Freedom?
Since Godato thought he could beat DESTROY fighting his normal ranged attack style and was getting blazed until a close-quarters fighter intervened...

Quote:
Oh come on, Lunamaria deserves some credit(able to match Gundams in a Zaku). And also stopped Requiem
I'll let you stand in the Give Lunamaria credit for piloting a Gundam line, take a ticket...I think I hear the butcher saying he's now serving customer number #1...That's prolly your ticket man ...
__________________
Fly since ...
wingdarkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 21:56   Link #274
edf91
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I don't think that it's quite as simple as that. The places where the AEU trails are: their elevator isn't completed yet (obviously, they're already trying their best to catch up), and their military isn't as strong as the other powers. Celestial Being's attack only serves to allow the AEU a free hand in building arms (for some reason, none of the other powers seem to operate under any sort of arms limitation treaty), but this is restricted by industrial and energy capabilities as well, so not much is going to change in the short term. In the long term, the AEU had already been clandestinely violating their part of an arms treaty - until the Gundams revealed what they were up to, so any imposition in that sense is due to Celestial Being to begin with.
It certainly seems to make the countries "united" and make CB the enemy. By making the PMC more "friendly" to AEU certainly doesn't seem to hurt AEU's effort, that's for sure. I guess what I am trying to say is that AEU is certainly in a better position overall then they started with before CB get involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
I'm still not sure what the opening narration is alluding to, but the power relationships in Gundam 00 don't resemble a zero-sum game at all. Essentially, a zero-sum game is one where every outcome adds up to zero. Hence if the AEU were to gain X rewards in a particular scenario, the aggregate rewards reaped by the HRL and the Union would have to add up to -X. If the AEU were to gain Y, and the Union were to gain Z, then the HRL would gain -(Y+Z). In the show, we can see the power blocs gaining and losing power, military strength, etc. without it affecting that of other powers.

The phrase "zero-sum game" doesn't really have anything to do with maintaining the status quo at all.
I agree that it doesn't really translate to Zero Sum Game, but the way I see it, now each of the three side seems to be doing something that will at least disrupt the status-quo that seems to be maintained for a while. No matter what happened to CB afterward, you can almost guarantee that the there major powers will be different than before CB ever get into the picture.
edf91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-19, 23:59   Link #275
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Zero Sum game does not mean there is no effect.

Zero Sum Game = what I win, you lose.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-20, 00:23   Link #276
qx123
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Which part of "I killed my parents for this man, but his "Holy War" was one huge lie" wasn't worth being angry about?

For that matter, what's so childish about hating someone who betrayed you? Being an adult doesn't mean being a heartless robot.
If i were him i will feel so angry that i am so stupid.

I dont think anyone in this thread are so stupid as to do what he has done.
qx123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-20, 00:27   Link #277
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by qx123 View Post
If i were him i will feel so angry that i am so stupid.

I dont think anyone in this thread are so stupid as to do what he has done.
Which shows each person lives in their own world, and doesn't TRY to understand the social situation Setsuna was in.

Seriously, how many of us have been in war? If you haven't faced what war, famine, disasters are like, then you should stop and think before calling someone "stupid" or "childish."
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-20, 00:30   Link #278
patgarci
Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
off topic i saw Exia pulling a sandrock move from endless waltz XD
i just find it very cool
patgarci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-20, 00:39   Link #279
Papaya
Sup
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Atlanta
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to Papaya Send a message via MSN to Papaya
Quote:
Originally Posted by qx123 View Post
If i were him i will feel so angry that i am so stupid.

I dont think anyone in this thread are so stupid as to do what he has done.
Are you also someone who blames the rape victim for the rape?

First of all, it's VERY easy to influence children. How many kids here believed in Santa Claus? The tooth fairy? Easter bunny?
If you indoctrinate a child from birth, it's extremely easy to manipulate him to do things further on.
Papaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2007-11-20, 00:46   Link #280
Demongod86
Gundam Boobs and Boom FTW
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by qx123 View Post
If i were him i will feel so angry that i am so stupid.

I dont think anyone in this thread are so stupid as to do what he has done.
Gotta admit...gunning down your family for some propaganda is about as stupid as they come

Setsuna clearly believed in this:



__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Demongod86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.