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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 50 36.23%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 37 26.81%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 17.39%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 10.14%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 5.07%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.72%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.72%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.72%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 3 2.17%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-11-17, 20:53   Link #81
lubczyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
Look at it this way. If informed and educated adults can be made to kill their own children, what makes you think the reverse can't happen?

Cults exist for a reason.
I'm not saying its impossible and I don't have a problem with people interpreting it that way. It's just hard for me to read people accept Gundam 00's interpretation of such phenomena as gospel.

Ok, I'll drop the subject so we can move this thread forward.

Last edited by lubczyk; 2007-11-17 at 21:04.
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Old 2007-11-17, 21:05   Link #82
ctrl-z
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
Christiana and Felt are b**ches who sleep at night with no remorse after having helped coordinate the deaths of hundreds of innocent people after going shopping.
Do you blame the officer who gave the order, the messenger who delivered it, or the soldier who squeezed the trigger? Welcome to the chain of command.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
And Sunrise writers and driectors know the hard truth, right?

Ever spend your childhood under Communist occupation like I have? Ever talk to your Serbian friends and the things the Albanians did to them like I have? Ever feel the pain fofthe bloody NATO talking the side of the Albanians and labeling the Serbs as the guilty party while they were actually the victims? Ever have old timers talk to you about the collapse of Yugoslavia? I have had all that happen to me and more.
I hope it's taught you patience, and how to ask the right questions in life.
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Old 2007-11-17, 21:15   Link #83
lubczyk
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==========================================

Do you blame the officer who gave the order, the messenger who delivered it, or the soldier who squeezed the trigger? Welcome to the chain of command.

==========================================

The officier is the main guilty party, Sumeragi in Gundam 00's instance, but even the messenger and soldier merit some of the blame. The officier along with the messenger and soldier are vaible military targets on the battlefield afterall.

At least Felt feels remorse for her actions. Christina just seems too happy about the whole thing. I mean, it's like being the guy onboard a cruiser that presses the button to launch the Tomahawk missile. Yeah, you could be proud of it, but to actually be enthusiastic about it?

==========================================

I hope it's taught you patience, and how to ask the right questions in life.

==========================================

It's taught me much more than I wish to know, believe me. I appreciate the sentiment. Thank you for the compliment.
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Old 2007-11-17, 21:45   Link #84
Demongod86
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Hey, if it's your job, be happy about doing it! Plus, Christina and Felt are far removed from the situation, so to them it's all numbers, to Sumeragi, it's simply a means of completing an objective, and to the gundam meisters, it's just some scrapped MSes.

Yes, Setsuna is a bastard...an even bigger one than Tieria in fact. Tieria is more like Heero Yuy in that he doesn't take shit from anyone and has his mind set on the objective...but he's too cold for Lockon's tastes, cuz Lockon is a crazy Irish guy, laddies.

As for whoever mentioned that Noin was an amazing pilot and all the girls in GS/GSD stunk, both Noin and Cagalli were both relegated to "better than all grunts, worse than the rest of the named charaters" status IIRC. Except Noin was a pretty smart tactician and she was Sephiroth's girlfriend.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:14   Link #85
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
The officier is the main guilty party, Sumeragi in Gundam 00's instance, but even the messenger and soldier merit some of the blame. The officier along with the messenger and soldier are vaible military targets on the battlefield afterall.
A soldier's lot in life is to follow orders to kill at the risk of being killed by the enemy, or to disobey orders, get branded as a traitor, and die anyway from a head shot by an officer's pistol. Life sucks, innit?

I haven't seen the episode yet, so I won't be arguing about Christina's actions for the moment. But I'm sure I can say that when one is a soldier, one eventually learns sooner or later how not to think about the deaths he's caused, especially if you have more important things to think about, like how not to get yourself killed.


I guess I shouldn't be surprised that so many people are putting down Tieria, but personally I hold much less venom for him than perhaps most of us here. The way I see it, Tieria's probably the personification of CB's version of Military Police; the guy whose duty it is to enforce discipline in a military force, but whom nobody likes because of that. Heck, I mean, I should know.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:19   Link #86
lubczyk
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I would like to pose a theoretical question:

Let's say you were one of the major powers, either HRL, AEU, or Union, and you had just captured all the members that we have seen so far as being apart of Celestial Being. Let's say that their capture occured at the beginning of episode 8Knowing everything that Gundam 00 has shown up to this point: who would be prime candidates for immediate execution and/or imprisonment.

In my opinion, I would have all of the Gundam Meisters executed immediately by fireing squad.

The whole Crew of Ptolemaios would be tortured or interrogated, whatever you like to call it, and hopefully accomplices like Billy, Wong, Hong Long, Ian, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would be divulged.

Wong, Hong Long, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would recieve life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The Crew of Ptolemaios, including Sumeragi along with Billy and Ian would be forced to work in my bloc's weapon development, in essence as slave scientists, for the rest of their lives.

The female crew of the Ptolemaios would also serve as wet nurses on the side, especially Sumeragi. The economies of all the power blocs seem pretty poor at the moment, so one would have to get the most bang for their buck from their sexy, young female slave scientists, so cheap wet nurses is a given.

How about you people?

Last edited by lubczyk; 2007-11-17 at 23:05.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:23   Link #87
Ascaloth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
I would like to pose a theoretical question:

Let's say you were one of the major powers, either HRL, AEU, or Union, and you had just captured all the members that we have seen so far as being apart of Celestial Being. Let's say that their capture occured at the beginning of episode 8Knowing everything that Gundam 00 has shown up to this point: who would be prime candidates for immediate execution and/or imprisonment.

In my opinion, I would have all of the Gundam Meisters executed immediately by fireing squad.

The whole Crew of Ptolemaios would be tortured or interrogated, whatever you like to call it, and hopefully accomplices like Billy, Wong, Hong Long, Ian, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would be divulged.

Wong, Hong Long, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would recieve life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The Crew of Ptolemaios, including Sumeragi along with Billy and Ian would be forced to work in my bloc's weapon development, in essence as slave scientists, for the rest of their lives.

How about you people?
So, in other words, you'll be following standard operating procedure (with the possible exception of the last paragraph)?
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:24   Link #88
pinkusmalloy
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I am getting tired of this conversation about whether Setsuna is a A##hole are not? Personally, I do not think he is, (hold on before I get attack here, and hear me out). In the world we live in it is easy for people to influence other people to do thing that they might have done if they was not influence by other people. If you read any Social psychology book on how to make people do something for you that they might not do other wise do is to offer them something small that they need and keep offering it to them. Later if you ask them to do something for you odds, all they will do it for you. It is called the foot in the approach. A good example is World War 2. That is why Hitler was able to gain a loyal following of people during World War 2. After World War 1 Germany was bankrupt, most of the people could not afford to put food on the table. When Hitler came to power, he made changes in the government and made sure that the people were well fed and that the people had money. That is why so many people follow Hitler to kill millions of Jewish people. That why during the last days of the war German soldiers give guns, rocket launcher and grenades to children who were part of the Nazi youth party. The soldiers told these children to fight the enemy, and you know what happen, they went and fought American and Russian advancing forces. These kids had to know it was wrong but you know what they did it anyway. Not because they was a##holes and but they believe in their leader Hitler. That is why I am not going to blame Setsuna yet for killing his mother I do not know his reasons. However, I have a feeling that Ali pulled a Hitler on Setsuna and the other children.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:25   Link #89
lubczyk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascaloth View Post
So, in other words, you'll be following standard operating procedure (with the possible exception of the last paragraph)?
Yeah, if you want to call it that. I call it the most logical, effective and efficent course of action.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:25   Link #90
LightningZERO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lubczyk
I would like to pose a theoretical question:

Let's say you were one of the major powers, either HRL, AEU, or Union, and you had just captured all the members that we have seen so far as being apart of Celestial Being. Let's say that their capture occured at the beginning of episode 8Knowing everything that Gundam 00 has shown up to this point: who would be prime candidates for immediate execution and/or imprisonment.

In my opinion, I would have all of the Gundam Meisters executed immediately by fireing squad.

The whole Crew of Ptolemaios would be tortured or interrogated, whatever you like to call it, and hopefully accomplices like Billy, Wong, Hong Long, Ian, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would be divulged.

Wong, Hong Long, Alejandro Corner and Livonze Almark would recieve life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The Crew of Ptolemaios, including Sumeragi along with Billy and Ian would be forced to work in my bloc's weapon development, in essence as slave scientists, for the rest of their lives.

How about you people?
You really hate Celestial Being don't you?

Knowing the 3 factions and since this is an Gundam anime, they probably will imprision the operators and others alone. Then interrogate for information from Sumeragi and Ian, and then use the Gundam Meisters for their own gain (ie Gundam Wing). This will occur for few episode until the Celestial Being make a big escape, probably stealing a new and powerful Gundam developed on the way
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:30   Link #91
hamstar
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In traditional manga, the bad guys are the ones that attack the weak. In this case Ali attacked the weakness of children and exploited them and made them kill their own parents. Basically at this point Ali is the biggest baddy character and we will probably see him as the ace pilot and rise up in rank to be the true villain in gundam 00. I used to think that maybe graham would pull a Rau like in seed and go totally insane but after seeing this episode that seems less likely.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:37   Link #92
lubczyk
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Oh, one more thing to add to my theoretical final solution to Celestial Being if they ever get captured. The female crew of the ship would be wet nurses on the side, especially Sumeragi, in addition to their duties as slave scientists for the power bloc.

The economies of all the power blocs seem pretty poor at the moment, so one would have to get the most bang for their buck from their sexy, young female slave scientists, so cheap wet nurses is a given.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:41   Link #93
Wen
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Originally Posted by pinkusmalloy View Post
I am getting tired of this conversation about whether Setsuna is a A##hole are not? Personally, I do not think he is, (hold on before I get attack here, and hear me out). In the world we live in it is easy for people to influence other people to do thing that they might have done if they was not influence by other people. If you read any Social psychology book on how to make people do something for you that they might not do other wise do is to offer them something small that they need and keep offering it to them. Later if you ask them to do something for you odds, all they will do it for you. It is called the foot in the approach. A good example is World War 2. That is why Hitler was able to gain a loyal following of people during World War 2. After World War 1 Germany was bankrupt, most of the people could not afford to put food on the table. When Hitler came to power, he made changes in the government and made sure that the people were well fed and that the people had money. That is why so many people follow Hitler to kill millions of Jewish people. That why during the last days of the war German soldiers give guns, rocket launcher and grenades to children who were part of the Nazi youth party. The soldiers told these children to fight the enemy, and you know what happen, they went and fought American and Russian advancing forces. These kids had to know it was wrong but you know what they did it anyway. Not because they was a##holes and but they believe in their leader Hitler. That is why I am not going to blame Setsuna yet for killing his mother I do not know his reasons. However, I have a feeling that Ali pulled a Hitler on Setsuna and the other children.
Finally! *bow* I believe Setsuna was merely a victim. Setsuna was clearly manipulated by Ali's 'God.' Ali told the children to kill their parent to be accepted by God (sounds crazy but so was Hitler's ideas about Jews). He said the children would become warriors (to fight some kind of Holy War) once God accept them. It is Ali who should be call an *ss, not Setsuna.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:46   Link #94
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by Wen View Post
Finally! *bow* I believe Setsuna was merely a victim. Setsuna was clearly manipulated by Ali's 'God.' Ali told the children to kill their parent to be accepted by God (sounds crazy but so was Hitler's ideas about Jews). He said the children would become warriors (to fight some kind of Holy War) once God accept them. It is Ali who should be call an *ss, not Setsuna.
I don't know, Hitler never got the German people to kill their own relatives, except when he tried euthanizing the sick and handicapped. Even then, he had to stop since the German people started getting suspicious.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:49   Link #95
flarezard
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Originally Posted by lubczyk View Post
And Sunrise writers and driectors know the hard truth, right?

Ever spend your childhood under Communist occupation like I have? Ever talk to your Serbian friends and the things the Albanians did to them like I have? Ever feel the pain fofthe bloody NATO talking the side of the Albanians and labeling the Serbs as the guilty party while they were actually the victims? Ever have old timers talk to you about the collapse of Yugoslavia? I have had all that happen to me and more.
You're right. I know nothing at all.

All I know is that I feel sorry for those who was brainwashed to kill even their own parents and Ali is evil for doing that atrocious thing.

Maybe I'm actually the one who think this world is easy???
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:54   Link #96
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by flarezard View Post
You're right. I know nothing at all.

All I know is that I feel sorry for those who was brainwashed to kill even their own parents and Ali is evil for doing that atrocious thing.

Maybe I'm actually the one who think this world is easy???
Sorry if that came off as an insult. I just wanted to provide a counterargument. Both of our arguments might just as well be equally valid. I just got a little bit too emotional, that's all. I don't always think the director's viewpoint on a subject is the correct one.
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Old 2007-11-17, 22:58   Link #97
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woho we have some nasty plots going

This is one dark Gundam ,hihi. Like the plot , not predictable which keeps me entertained.

BTW lubazyk, I hoped you don't get brainwashed since clearly you haven't seen brainwashed people to learn or observe what brainwashing will make you do(false prophets anyone).I pity setsuna ,must be hard for him.
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Old 2007-11-17, 23:13   Link #98
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by neoeagle View Post
This is one dark Gundam ,hihi. Like the plot , not predictable which keeps me entertained.

BTW lubazyk, I hoped you don't get brainwashed since clearly you haven't seen brainwashed people to learn or observe what brainwashing will make you do(false prophets anyone).I pity setsuna ,must be hard for him.
I don't see how Setsuna was brainwashed though. He, at most, saw Ali as a charismatic figure and followed up on what Ali wanted him and the other kids to do. I see it as person A talking person B into walking off a cliff. There's no brainwashing involved, just persuasion. I mean they were in Kurdistan, I assume. It's not like Ali took them to a secret lab somewhere and screwed up their whole brain.

I mean Gunslinger Girl, now that's brainwashing. Now this, I'm not so sure.
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Old 2007-11-17, 23:16   Link #99
Ninjacat
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What's funny is that CB is also using Setsuna. Private army using a kid in doing it's dirty work.

At least Ali wasn't trying to start a major world war.

Then again, I think that's intentional. CB is pretty damn evil if you ask me, but from their own point of view they have only the best of intentions. The kind intention that paves the way to hell...
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Old 2007-11-17, 23:19   Link #100
lubczyk
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Originally Posted by Ninjacat View Post
What's funny is that CB is also using Setsuna. Private army using a kid in doing it's dirty work.

At least Ali wasn't trying to start a major world war.

Then again, I think that's intentional. CB is pretty damn evil if you ask me, but from their own point of view they have only the best of intentions. The kind intention that paves the way to hell...
======================================

For all we know all of the Meister might be being used by CB and get betrayed later on. Maybe Tierra will get a offer of promotion if he kills off a problemetic fellow Meister, either Setsuna or Halejuha.
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