AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-05-14, 05:42   Link #61
TinyRedLeaf
. . .
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life
No, stealing is techically stealing. A copyright violation is technically a copyright violation. Be assured Sony's PR and legal departments don't use legal terms that "liberally" when somebody has claims against them. So why should we.
Point taken, and also one area where this legislation is going to fail miserably, as stated in the report -- it's not going to work against file streaming. If the idea is to deter users from downloading content (hence committing copyright violation by "copying" the file into their hard disks), then users could simply switch to YouTube to get their entertainment. As it stands, I don't think there are provisions in the Bill to prevent people from uploading content into file-streaming sites.

Quote:
It's an infringement of privacy and civil liberties and certainly not impossible to enforce.
Hence "almost impossible" to enforce. I didn't say it wasn't possible. Frankly, though, I don't see how it can be practically put into effect -- I presume that France has some kind of privacy laws in place, or am I wrong?

Quote:
It's the other way around: the well-being of an industry producing mere entertainment can by no means be a reason to limit civil rights. If you want to make profit, fine. Find a way that fits to society. But don't attempt to make the society fit to your business model.
I don't think anyone in France has intentions of "limiting civil rights to save an industry" in this context. Of course, there's no telling when an Orwellian twist could suddenly occur. But like itisjustme points out, the passing of this Bill was probably driven more by the desire to introduce some kind of deterrent against "illegal downloading", where one might not clearly exist today. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm not French. Just speculating based on what's been reported.

Quote:
"As far as possible" is too dangerous a concept to leave its implementation to the homo economicus.
Hence I question why the entertainment industry is being given the power to do the monitoring. Seems too cosy an arrangement to me, and one that's very open to abuse. But legitimate business does have to be afforded the full protection of the law, otherwise homo economicus might as well become homo criminilus, since it's more worthwile any way.
TinyRedLeaf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 05:53   Link #62
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post

I don't think anyone in France has intentions of "limiting civil rights to save an industry" in this context. Of course, there's no telling when an Orwellian twist could suddenly occur. But like itisjustme points out, the passing of this Bill was probably driven more by the need to introduce some kind of deterrent against "illegal downloading", where one might not clearly exist today. Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm not French. Just speculating based on what's been reported.
Well i can tell you that the actual governement has the intention of "limiting civil rights to save an industry". As I said in my previous post this law is only useful for a small part of artist and to the majors that's all. People need to understand that there is more than 3000 artist who have nothing to gain with this law.



Quote:
Hence I question why the entertainment industry is being given the power to do the monitoring. Seems too cosy an arrangement to me, one that's very likely to be open to abuse. But legitimate business does have to be afforded the full protection of the law, otherwise homo economicus might as well become homo criminilus, since it's more worthwile any way.
The problem here it's that this law is totally outdated. It will protect nothing and resolv nothing. And futhermore, again, it will just help the big artist and majors that's all. Big artist and majors who have enough money like that There is some other good solution (see my previous post ) but the governement doesn't want to hear it. Why ? Because it can't satisfy majors. But licence global is a good solution for artist. There is other good idea like this site : http://www.fairtrade-music.com/. In this site, the money that you give, is given directly to the artist. There is no part for majors and all.

Again, people need to understand that CD, DVD and all will be soon dead. We need to find a true answer, need to find a new support. We need to move not to go back
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 05:55   Link #63
Sheba
Night Battle Oh La La
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Naval Base in the rectum of Pacific Ocean
Age: 34
The average frenchman's cost of life is so high that he would have little money left after having paid his bills and taxes. So they often had to choose between food or entertainment. And when we can choose visual entertainment (I exclude the printed media from the equation), the choice is often the imported US series and movies, and japanese anime.

From my point of view, the french mainstream entertainment lobbys are having a baby about the lack of interest of the public for the local production; so, to them, the P2P and the dirty pirates are the perfect culprits. I'd like to tell them, "Hey, how about making music, movies and series that sucks less?"

EDIT: Just to clarify a bit. I do BUY things I REALLY LOVE and want to support. If something I downloaded does not please me so much, I just send it to the recycle bin and don't bother buying it. Then there are the books that are out of print, cannot be found in shops and I can only find as pdf files on torrents. Like some of D&D3.5 and D20 books.
Sheba is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 06:07   Link #64
SaintessHeart
Ehh? EEEEHHHHHH?
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
I'm sure it refers to a breach of copyright, fullstop. The fine distinction between "licensed" and "not licensed" material is vague, has no legal grounds, and would immediately be challenged by the media industry.
Licensing goes by region or state, but each country has different laws. The use of proxies can complicate issues for the police.

Quote:
No, stealing is techically stealing. A copyright violation is technically a copyright violation. Be assured Sony's PR and legal departments don't use legal terms that "liberally" when somebody has claims against them. So why should we.
Yes but this solution isn't solving the root of the problem. It will only add to implicate matters. Besides, with freeware like Simple File Shredder and Mask Surf around, the Attorney-General probably have to impound a few thousand Anton Pillers to get evidence. They should be glad that a large number of downloaders are stupid.

Besides, downloading stuff that is not available in your immediate region is hard to classify as stealing, even under international trade laws because

1. Regional laws differ.
2. Might turn into a cross-border dispute and damage diplomatic ties
3. The opposing country can only INFLUENCE the jurisdiction to take action, unless it involves sending in a Sabre Squadron (which is wholly ridiculous).
4. The citizen is downloading on his OWN FREE WILL, and that does not apply to espionage activities.
5. How the heck do you know you are getting the right person?

Quote:
It's an infringement of privacy and civil liberties and certainly not impossible to enforce. Modern technology allows a level of surveillance of the citizen by the state people wouldn't have dreamed of 20, 30 years ago.
What makes you think that the French can build something like the Echelon or Onyx? Besides distributed surveillance is neither cheap nor easy, with technology like IP masks, decoy ports, micromanagement of packets widely available and easy to use so long as the user RTFM. Modern erase programs no longer reset bytes to 0, it can also randomly write bytes over piecemeal at "unstandard" number of times (USDoD recommends 7x and 35x, but many such programs are customisable).

Like what Lloyd Blankenship (a famous hacker in the past) said in the Hacker's Manifesto, "You can stop some of us, but you can't stop us all."
Quote:
It's the other way around: the well-being of an industry producing mere entertainment can by no means be a reason to limit civil rights. If you want to make profit, fine. Find a way that fits to society. But don't attempt to make the society fit to your business model.
That is a bloody sensible statement. But I would like to add that modern society changes rapidly and randomly, so precise market intelligence and quick adaptability is of utmost important in the market in order to survive.

Social Darwinism sucks, but it is inevitable.

Quote:
"As far as possible" is too dangerous a concept to leave its implementation to the homo economicus.
Agreed. It is not often that your food fights back, but apparently in absolute reality, it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Just to clarify a bit. I do BUY things I REALLY LOVE and want to support. If something I downloaded does not please me so much, I just send it to the recycle bin and don't bother buying it. Then there are the books that are out of print, cannot be found in shops and I can only find as pdf files on torrents. Like some of D&D3.5 and D20 books.
Same here. But apparently

1. People like us are endangered species.

2. We get screwed EVEN for sampling.

3. It is impossible to buy/date a Fujibayashi twin in real life.

This situation has sucked beyond a limit that more lawmakers are lobbying for retarded rights for their personal benefits.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 06:20   Link #65
KimmyChan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
I'm against all kinds of piracy anyway, so I'm not at all surprised to hear about this
KimmyChan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:03   Link #66
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post
Then shall we imprison our apple thief -- surely a pitiless criminal scum -- for twenty five years for his crimes?

Jean Valjean objects, sir!

And if you think the analogy is horrendous, then let me point out the classic flaw in your analogy: apples don't work like TV shows.
Do you read what i write or what?

Many laws are flexible. The justice is kinda flexible too. We tend to live in a society in which we try to show compassion and accept the fact that no one is perfect. But, once you did something wrong and got lectured for it, it has only a meaning if you understood that you did something wrong. EZven if you're not mectured, you should feel ashamed. If the people want compassion from the justice but continue their bad behaviors in a vicious way, it's offending and prove that the people don't care about the justice and laws in our country.

And then they try to bring up the human rights and some other laws to hide the fact that they are unethical themselves. That's hypocritical and wrong.


Quote:
Actually...

The act of disregarding laws has existed as long as laws have existed. And laws don't earn their legitimacy -- in my eyes at least -- from just being laws. They earn them by making sense. The merchants of Buenos Aires didn't appreciate it when Spain demanded that all trade must go through Lima so they can tax it all. Smuggling flourished. Law. The colonials screamed bloody murder with them British Stamp Acts. They ended up pulling a freaking revolution over such issues. Law. RIAA suing American grandmothers to death for the evil, evil crime of owning a few illegal songs. (Almost) law.

I'm sorry, but I'm not just a Lawful kind of guy. You have to argue more than just "it's the law" or blanket "stealing is wrong" to convince me. I see too many shades of gray as it is.
Most of the current "major" laws in our country are normal. Don't kill people. Don't steal and such. When I was saying "do not disregard a law", I was not only pointing fingers at the "commoners", but at everyone, government included.

Why am I partly against Hadopi? Because it goes again some important things like the presumption of innocence. Which is wrong, and unethical, and could be proven illegal by a good lawyer on a law court.

But, when I was repeating that the people disregard an important law, I was talking about Frauds Law. Those people have just no excuse. Democracy is not Anarchy, but more and more people here claim that democracy should be total freedom. A dangerous drift.

The common way of thinking is that if you kill and steal, you infringe the important rights of a person. Thus, you create a distortion in a society that tries to bring equality between people. True freedom doesn't exist, because you need laws and rules if you want the people to try to live in some sort of equality with the same observed rights.

So no. Stealing Songs, CDs, DVDs and them claiming that it is normal is wrong. You can say what you want against the majors, but they respect the law and have the rights to sell their product at the prices they want. You have to understand that I and many other people don't defend hadopi, but we will not hide the bad behaviors of our people behing wrong and hypocritical excuses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Ok I will said one thing about this law : It's a big joke (but not funny at all ). I really hate my governement for all this law, reform that they want to impose to other poeple. Hadopi is extremly dangerous because it's based on IP wich mean that even if it's not you who download something but an other person who use your IP then you will be convict !

I think we need to be honest here, this law profit only to majors and big artist but not minor artist and all. There is many many more minor artist than big artist and these minor artist are against this law !

People need to understand that CD, DVD and all are pratically dead ! Hadopy is not a good answer against this problem. It's just an answer totally outdated !

There is many other solution about that, one of them is the global licence. What's global licence ? Global licence consist to add some Euro to your internet subscription (e.g : 5euro ). In the end, for the music, it will be a good solution but it will not necessarily a good one for movie. But it's to the movie maker to find a solution about that. They need to understand that DVD and all is now outdated !

And the most funny about that is that the European deputy are against this law !
The Global Licence raises many problems. One for example. How do you do count the number of files that was downloaded since it would be not (it's impossible to be) centralized? How do you divide up the money between each artist? On which basis?

The only people who see the GL as a perfect solution are the one who actually don't care about the artists (and so are hypocritical), because if those people really cared, they should raise those important questions too instead of saying that the GL is a marvelous solution.

And about a GL at 5e, sorry to say that, but you certainly are a dreamer on that point.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:07   Link #67
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
The main issue, I think, is enforcement and implementation. How is the law going to be enforced and how would these arguments stand in a court of law?
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:14   Link #68
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
The main issue, I think, is enforcement and implementation. How is the law going to be enforced and how would these arguments stand in a court of law?
Hadopi infringes some things that are considered important human rights, like the presumption of innocence. So, as I said, in a court of law in could and will be demolished if Hadopi is applied.

Also, as i said, it's hardly applicable. Thinking that you can monitor each file transfer of millions of users is plainly idiotic, or will cost billions.

But those facts should not make happy those who think that stealing is normal and ethical.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:16   Link #69
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
In that case, this law would very easily go the way of Prohibition. If it cannot be enforced, it makes a mockery of the legal system.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:19   Link #70
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
In that case, this law would very easily go the way of Prohibition. If it cannot be enforced, it makes a mockery of the legal system.
As one of my teachers would say, strong probihition tends to happen when a large majority of people goes the wrong way.

The fact that we fall down to the point of creating Hadopi since it's partly caused by the bad behaviors of the people is a mockery over the French people/commoners ethic.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:23   Link #71
yezhanquan
Observer/Bookman wannabe
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 28
I think of it as something that looks good on paper, but is a nightmare to administer when formally introduced. In the case of US Prohibition, they amend the Constitution twice for it: once for it to get in, and the second for it to get out.
__________________
Those from the lower levels cannot hope to surpass those from the upper.

RIP, Oba-chan (1935-2008)
yezhanquan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:30   Link #72
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
I think of it as something that looks good on paper, but is a nightmare to administer when formally introduced. In the case of US Prohibition, they amend the Constitution twice for it: once for it to get in, and the second for it to get out.
Actually, only a part of hadopi looks good on paper. Like the fact that we shall continue to struggle against frauds, or that we should make some people realize that they are unethical, or that we shall struglle against pedophily on internet.

But, the rest is mainly wrong. The way of monitoring the personal life of people is wrong.

The best outcome would be to see the business model evolving, BUT also to see the french starting to realize that in our democracy, they should stay respectable, and so avoid stealing, or at least, don't feel happy to see that an easy way to steal licenced products exists. But this is an idealistic point of view, and so has little chance to happen since that for example, the Music/movies majors are stubborn and that many french don't care about ethics.

Last edited by Narona; 2009-05-14 at 07:42.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 07:57   Link #73
Miles Teg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Le Mans, France
With this law you won't be punished for copyright infringement, but because you haven't been able to secure your Internet connexion.

Copyright infringement (counterfeiting in the case that interest us) is punished by a 300.000€ fine and 3 years of jail.

And the HADOPI can force people to install a "spyware" (instead of cutting the connexion) on their computer to monitor what they are doing, for me this is the worst infringement of privacy that you can find.

EDIT : and you will have to pay for the spyware
Miles Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 08:05   Link #74
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Teg View Post
With this law you won't be punished for copyright infringement, but because you haven't been able to secure your Internet connexion.
Don't say that like that, because people could misunderstand it. The dangerous thing is that you could be punished even if you didn't do what you are accused for because it's you who will have to prove that you are innocent (which goes against the fact that you should be firstly presumed innocent)

Quote:
Copyright infringement (counterfeiting in the case that interest us) is punished by a 300.000€ fine and 3 years of jail.
Again, don't say that like that. It has nothing to do with hadopi because you will not be punished like that because of hadopi. The only thing that could happen after some mails that says "stop to download illegal stuffs" is probably a fine, and that your internet connection will be cut, while continuing to pay the Internet Provider every month (why? Because it's not the fault of the Internet provider if you do something bad, and so, they don't have to be punished with you)

The way you say it infers that because of hadopi you will go in jail if you download an mp3 file, and that's not true.

Quote:
And the HADOPI can force people to install a "spyware" (instead of cutting the connexion) on their computer to monitor what they are doing, for me this is the worst infringement of privacy that you can find.
True. That part of Hadopi is really not that good.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 08:42   Link #75
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
nd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
The Global Licence raises many problems. One for example. How do you do count the number of files that was downloaded since it would be not (it's impossible to be) centralized? How do you divide up the money between each artist? On which basis?
No the principe of a Global Licence is not about the number of file that you download since you add some Euro to your internet subscription. The result is that if we did a Global Licence, in the end the artist will gain more money than the actual system. But I agree that's not perfect but it's clearly a better solution than this stupid law

Quote:
The only people who see the GL as a perfect solution are the one who actually don't care about the artists (and so are hypocritical), because if those people really cared, they should raise those important questions too instead of saying that the GL is a marvelous solution.
And what about the one who are for the Hadopi ? They don't care about the artist, about our liberty etc...Actually, we can say that the one who are for a GL are really but really more concerned about the artists that the one who are for hadopi.

Quote:
And about a GL at 5e, sorry to say that, but you certainly are a dreamer on that point.
Well then I'm a dreamer. But I prefer to dream than to do a nightmare.
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 08:45   Link #76
Miles Teg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Le Mans, France
Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Don't say that like that, because people could misunderstand it. The dangerous thing is that you could be punished even if you didn't do what you are accused for because it's you who will have to prove that you are innocent (which goes against the fact that you should be firstly presumed innocent)
I say it like that because it's in the law, for the law "Création et Internet" the government has created a new crime, a crime where you are guilty when you haven't be able to secure your Internet connexion.

You will receive email because your IP has been seen downloading illegal file and your connexion will be cut because you haven't been able to stop that, not because you have personally downloaded some illegal file but because you haven't been able to secure your Internet connexion.

HADOPI don't punish people for Copyright Infringement, you can still be punished for it even after your Internet Connexion has been cut. Some deputy wanted Copyright Holder to make a choice HADOPI or trial and in the end that was refused.

But it's true nobody in France has received the 300.000€ fine and 3 years of jail, our judge are not that bad, but it's still a possibility (and shouldn't been forgotten).

And for the rest of your point I think like you, but knowing the French I think that the number of illegal download will probably start to rise the moment the first email/letter will be sent
Miles Teg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 08:49   Link #77
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Exactly, this law is a big joke and it's very dangerous. The most funny part here is that the email will not even say what bad thing you did.
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 09:03   Link #78
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
No the principe of a Global Licence is not about the number of file that you download since you add some Euro to your internet subscription. The result is that if we did a Global Licence, in the end the artist will gain more money than the actual system. But I agree that's not perfect but it's clearly a better solution than this stupid law
Stop being close minded because a part of Hadopi is wrong. Not everything is retarded about it. You should listen to me a little instead of going on a rampage about it without thinking just because there are some ugly parts in it.

I sent you a PM in french about the Global Licence. If you want to equitably divide up the money between each artist you need NUMBERS. But it's impossible to monitor each file transfer and not everyone will download files from the majors websites like SONY.

It's not normal to think that each artist should get the same share of money. It's normal for a good artist to gain more than a crappy one. So you need a mean to count things as if it was products bought in a real life store.

Quote:
And what about the one who are for the Hadopi ? They don't care about the artist, about our liberty etc...Actually, we can say that the one who are for a GL are really but really more concerned about the artists that the one who are for hadopi.
That's not the point. It's like saying "this person said a bad thing so i will say a bad thing too". That's childish.

Lets Be honest, a lot of people who agree with something like being firstly presumed guilty are wrong ; but a lot of people who are pro GL just want to be able to downlad mass of files for only a few euros.

I try to be fair in this debate. I don't hide the bad thoughts of each camp, so be fair too.

Quote:
Well then I'm a dreamer. But I prefer to dream than to do a nightmare.
I didn't say that to insult you or the ones who think you can do it by paying 5e. I said that on economic basis pov of a company. The companies are not the big bad wolf and people should not talk about them as if they are some gangsters. Be fair, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles Teg View Post
I say it like that because it's in the law, for the law "Création et Internet" the government has created a new crime, a crime where you are guilty when you haven't be able to secure your Internet connexion.

You will receive email because your IP has been seen downloading illegal file and your connexion will be cut because you haven't been able to stop that, not because you have personally downloaded some illegal file but because you haven't been able to secure your Internet connexion.

HADOPI don't punish people for Copyright Infringement, you can still be punished for it even after your Internet Connexion has been cut. Some deputy wanted Copyright Holder to make a choice HADOPI or trial and in the end that was refused.

But it's true nobody in France has received the 300.000€ fine and 3 years of jail, our judge are not that bad, but it's still a possibility (and shouldn't been forgotten).

And for the rest of your point I think like you, but knowing the French I think that the number of illegal download will probably start to rise the moment the first email/letter will be sent
Because of hadopi you will not be sent in jail or get a 300k fine just because you downloaded a song. I just wanted to point that out. It's not the punishments included in this law for a case like that.

Why is the punishment not 300.000€ fine and 3 years of jail? because as i said above, the justice is somewhat flexible because behind it lies humans. Firstly we can't put in jail millions of people , but also, it would be too severe to punish everyone like that. An example: because your 12 yo kid, who doesn't know the laws and thr risks well, downloaded a dvd. As I said, the justice is not a big bad wolf and can show compassion at times. But the people who are forgiven should start to change once it happens. One of the problem I raised is that some people went too far. For some they know it's bad to steal but they do it with a smile. It does not make me smile. I want to live among respectable people who at least feel shame about their bad behaviors, instead of laughing at the fact that they won against the legal system.

Last edited by Narona; 2009-05-14 at 09:16.
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 09:27   Link #79
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Well about the distribution, I agree it's a problem here but for what I know there is some method like : statistic download etc...As I said it's not perfect but I think it's a good first answer about the problem. And serioulsy which one is the better here : Hadopi which will be ineffective or a Global Licence which will not be perfect but work better. You know what I'm trying to say is that we need to think about something new even if it's not perfect. When you move, you always do some mistake but you move. And moving is better than just sit here and do nothing (I hope i'm clear here ). Hadopi won't resolve anything, it's outdated.

You said that mass download for only a few euro is bad but again in the end with 7euro in addition to your internet subsciption, it will be more beneficial for the artists. The only real problem here is about the distribution but I think we can find a good answer about this problem.

Well actually I really think here that's the majors are the bad wolfs who don't want to lose their privelege. The main problem is that the majors don't understand that with Internet it will never be the same and they need to accpet that. They need to understand that the old system is dead and we must find a new answer for a new problem not an old anwser for a new problem. With Hadopi, they just cover their face.
__________________
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-05-14, 09:38   Link #80
Narona
Emotionless White Face
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Well about the distribution, I agree it's a problem here but for what I know there is some method like : statistic download etc...As I said it's not perfect but I think it's a good first answer about the problem. And serioulsy which one is the better here : Hadopi which will be ineffective or a Global Licence which will not be perfect but work better. You know what I'm trying to say is that we need to think about something new even if it's not perfect. When you move, you always do some mistake but you move. And moving is better than just sit here and do nothing (I hope i'm clear here ). Hadopi won't resolve anything, it's outdated.
Kusa, arrête de me faire me taper la tête contre le mur, lis moi un peu et sois logique s'il te plait, car là tu ne l'es pas.

For statistic of downloads and sharing files outside of the majors websites you need some personal monitoring also between internet users, something that the ones against hadopi don't want. So your point is illogical.

Quote:
You said that mass download for only a few euro is bad but again in the end with 7euro in addition to your internet subsciption, it will be more beneficial for the artists. The only real problem here is about the distribution but I think we can find a good answer about this problem.
You misundertsood me again. I said that many people just want to be able to download mass of files for a few euros instead of paying full prices. Meaning that they don't give a fuck about the ones behind the products, they just want to enjoy the products for nearly free.

The other problem, and that's why WE CAN'T give the same share of money to each artist is that if you do that, most of the artists will stop to provide VERY GOOD things. "Why doing the efforts? I will get the same amount of money even if I do something crap". That's why we have to avoid that. AND READ ME :message caché:

Quote:
Well actually I really think here that's the majors are the bad wolfs who don't want to lose their privelege. The main problem is that the majors don't understand that with Internet it will never be the same and they need to accpet that. They need to understand that the old system is dead and we must find a new answer for a new problem not an old anwser for a new problem. With Hadopi, they just cover their face.
Can you point to me what illegal things the majors did? If you can't then you're wrong, that's all.

The fact that the majors live on an old bisiness model that has to change doesn't mean that people can steal products and laugh. You said to me in private that you are against the ones who download games, so I don't understand why you don't care about what i wrote and what are some of the justice pov. But you don't give a fuck about what i said about being respectable. Is there a difference between stealing a game or a song? No.

Je dois y aller. @ ce soir
Narona is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.