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View Poll Results: Fansub DVDs, Good idea/bad idea
Good Idea 15 34.88%
Bad Idea 28 65.12%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-01-25, 22:32   Link #1
Xellos-_^
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DVD Fansubs

I ask for some opinions earlier, figure I make this into a poll.

So what does everyone think of the idea of Fansub DVDs? Not encoding a divx into a dvd, but actually subbing a R2 DVD. I especially want to kno what most fansubbers think of the idea.
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Old 2004-01-25, 22:52   Link #2
Quarkboy
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I made myself a narutaru DVD 1-4, complete with animated menu's and everything.
Took me forever, and I used Adobe Encore DVD. I basically just did it to test out my new DVD burner and to teach myself all the in's and out's of DVD creation. It was only for personal consumption however.

As for fansubbing DVD's, I think it's definitely not a good idea. unless you simply mean distributing scripts, but we all know why that doesn't really work.
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Old 2004-01-25, 23:30   Link #3
acefighter
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wouldnt it have to be an ogm file instead of divx
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Old 2004-01-25, 23:41   Link #4
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acefighter
wouldnt it have to be an ogm file instead of divx

I don't know much about ogm or mkv, but you can encode divx/xvid into a dvd. And I use divx mostly just as a example.


And people, please state your reasoning on why it is a good idea or a bad idea.
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Old 2004-01-25, 23:43   Link #5
babbito2k
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I see this as a bad idea on several levels.

1. At the point where you inserting subtitles into actual DVD quality product, you are getting into Chinese pirate territory. Something like that represents a greater threat to legitimate distributors than lower-quality compressed files. The chances of reprisals being taken goes up.
2. The sheer volume of data for each episode represents a burden on the resources available to any given distribution format, be it BT, usenet, IRC, or anything else, which does not now exist. It likewise places a burden on total bandwidth.
3. This sort of thing discriminates against a certain percentage of the fans (beyond the willingness to use up bandwidth obtaining the files), in terms of storage media and/or HD space.

Last edited by babbito2k; 2004-01-25 at 23:44. Reason: fixed garbled sentence
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:09   Link #6
Elepsis
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Your question is far too unclear. What do you mean by subbing an R2 DVD? If you mean buying the DVD and using that as the source of the raws, there are plenty of groups who already do that (mine included). You really have to clarify your question first and foremost.
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:25   Link #7
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elepsis
Your question is far too unclear. What do you mean by subbing an R2 DVD? If you mean buying the DVD and using that as the source of the raws, there are plenty of groups who already do that (mine included). You really have to clarify your question first and foremost.

Adding a sub tract to the DVD and reauthoring it with menus and everything.
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:30   Link #8
mitsurugi_ryu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elepsis
Your question is far too unclear. What do you mean by subbing an R2 DVD? If you mean buying the DVD and using that as the source of the raws, there are plenty of groups who already do that (mine included). You really have to clarify your question first and foremost.
I think he meant to take R2DVD and rip it and insert the subtitle
script of Fansub group into resulting DVD. Result should
be one anime DVD with selectable fansub script. User can select one episode with either group A or group B script.

It is a cool idea but I disagree because what happen if that certain series is licensed and fan does not stop distributing it.
Also that way it will make it even easier for pirates to rip the script.
I hate to see pirate copy appear in other country claiming as release of R1 DVD English subtitle if fansub group start doing this.

Why don't you buy the R2DVD and ask for the timed script from the group. You can always load them with a special program and next make a backup DVD with script for yourself.

Last edited by mitsurugi_ryu; 2004-01-26 at 03:48.
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Old 2004-01-26, 01:50   Link #9
DrWho2002
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I think it's a bad idea. Far too easy to fall prey to the lure of piracy.
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Old 2004-01-26, 02:56   Link #10
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
I think it's a bad idea. Far too easy to fall prey to the lure of piracy.
Lure? This would be piracy pure and simple. You are copying the r2 1 for 1. This would significantly impact the sales everywhere.
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Old 2004-01-26, 03:34   Link #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy
As for fansubbing DVD's, I think it's definitely not a good idea. unless you simply mean distributing scripts, but we all know why that doesn't really work.
To clarify my opinion: If you mean simply taking the menu's, extra features etc. from R2 DVDs, and adding in an option for english subs, that would be terribly wrong.

Now if a group wanted to make their OWN DVD release, for example say princess tutu, with custom english menus, fan created extras like character bios/information about the music in each episode/ a "making of the fansub featurette", I would find that no more illegal then just distributing the show like now, since all the extra's were actually created by the fans. Of course distribution of full DVD ISOs is not really possible on a large scale at this point, but perhaps sometime in the future.

Actually, it WOULD be theoretically possible to ONLY distribute the DVD content seperately, and let people do their own encodes of the show itself (from XVID sources), thus saving the bandwidth (though losing quality), but it would require everyone to use a standard DVD authoring content format, which doesn't really exist right now. I mean, not everyone can use Scenarist right?
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Old 2004-01-26, 10:22   Link #12
zalas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quarkboy
To clarify my opinion: If you mean simply taking the menu's, extra features etc. from R2 DVDs, and adding in an option for english subs, that would be terribly wrong.

Now if a group wanted to make their OWN DVD release, for example say princess tutu, with custom english menus, fan created extras like character bios/information about the music in each episode/ a "making of the fansub featurette", I would find that no more illegal then just distributing the show like now, since all the extra's were actually created by the fans. Of course distribution of full DVD ISOs is not really possible on a large scale at this point, but perhaps sometime in the future.

Actually, it WOULD be theoretically possible to ONLY distribute the DVD content seperately, and let people do their own encodes of the show itself (from XVID sources), thus saving the bandwidth (though losing quality), but it would require everyone to use a standard DVD authoring content format, which doesn't really exist right now. I mean, not everyone can use Scenarist right?
All you would need to do is have everyone create .m2v + .wav files. The mpeg2 stream is pretty standard. You then drag it into a DVD authoring app.
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Old 2004-01-26, 11:48   Link #13
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
Adding a sub tract to the DVD and reauthoring it with menus and everything.
As a fansub thing, I don't think it would be a great idea, as it borders too closely to pure piracy. However, I really do wish that the license companies would officially release anime DVDs this way, at least as an option. That way, they could get the DVDs out a *lot* faster (perhaps even match the Japanese DVD release dates) and at a lower cost for those who don't mind or who want to watch the anime subbed. Then, they could have a second version a few months later with dub track, English extras, etc., for those who prefer that. It would cut down on the need for fansubs a bit, but it would just make a lot of sense from a business standpoint, I think...
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Old 2004-01-26, 11:50   Link #14
Elepsis
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LOL, a "making the fansub" featurette? Uh... It's not really that dramatic or anything, ya know? Would be a pretty stupid "extra"... :P
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Old 2004-01-26, 12:16   Link #15
JAppi
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It would be a waste of time. DVD isn't an effective means of distribution.
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Old 2004-01-26, 12:49   Link #16
Dark_Voodoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAppi
It would be a waste of time. DVD isn't an effective means of distribution.
Have to agree with JAppi on this one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by babbito2k
you are getting into Chinese pirate territory
I also agree with babbito2k here, putting it on DVD's and spreading it that way is going a step to far in my opinion.

I say keep it on the net.
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Old 2004-01-26, 14:32   Link #17
DrWho2002
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Unless region encoding went away, and prices for DVD's became similar all around the world for such a DVD, there's no way a subbed release could be put out at the same time as a japanese only R2 DVD. There's always some stipulation that a R1 DVD can't come out until the R2 DVD has had some time to make money over in Japan first, otherwise the people in Japan would just reverse import the R1 for a cheaper price, thereby undercutting the domestic market.
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Old 2004-01-26, 14:38   Link #18
complich8
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mpeg2 is old, and huge. mpeg4 is new, and not huge. bandwidth is expensive and becoming more scarce. With a growing community, the burden of distributing mpeg4 stuff (175 megs or less for 23 minutes) is getting too heavy for groups to carry (though bittorrent helps, there's still a large burden there). I can't imagine around 1 gig/23 minutes being supportable by most groups...


But something about distributing what amounts to dvd isos and complete professional looking packages feels ..... really really wrong to me, and I'm one of those immoral bastards who has no qualms about subbing licensed stuff! That just ..... it echoes malice toward the copyright owners... I couldn't justify what fansubbers do as promotional if we did that stuff... we'd be effectively competition for the dvd companies, much like warez competes with legitimate software on the exact same product.

I think doing that would actually be counter to the original stated purpose of fansubbing (which was to get things exposed and popular so they would get licensed so we could get the dvds). This would actually make old licenses even less desirable.
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Old 2004-01-26, 14:51   Link #19
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
Unless region encoding went away, and prices for DVD's became similar all around the world for such a DVD, there's no way a subbed release could be put out at the same time as a japanese only R2 DVD. There's always some stipulation that a R1 DVD can't come out until the R2 DVD has had some time to make money over in Japan first, otherwise the people in Japan would just reverse import the R1 for a cheaper price, thereby undercutting the domestic market.
Hmm... I don't know that I necessarily agree with you here. Worldwide releases of videogames happens often enough, and those are region-encoded... And as far as prices becoming similar around the world goes, I think that in this scenario that would be the case, as it would be a co-ordinated effort. Will it happen? Who knows... it depends on just how popular fansubbing gets, I think. But, I certainly think that it could happen. I personally believe that these types of "market protection" attitudes will be disappearing soon, anyways, as it does not apply in this digital era. There's more money to be made if you expand your audience right from day one - eventually they'll figure that out.
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Old 2004-01-26, 17:03   Link #20
lomeando
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But, I certainly think that it could happen. I personally believe that these types of "market protection" attitudes will be disappearing soon, anyways, as it does not apply in this digital era.
Wrong. "Market protection" is really all about the microeconomic principle known as "price discrimination". Everyone has an amount they are willing to pay for something. If you set a fixed price, you can't sell to anyone with a lower willingness to pay, and you lose money you could've extracted from people with a higher willingness to pay. If you can pick the price you charge each group of people, you can extract more profit from both sides of the true "market" price. Nothing about the "digital age" changes this, except that without artificial barriers like DVD region codes, you can't effectively control the price.

Region coding is obviously not perfect, nor, when you consider that there are already Windows drivers that effectively remove any region coding transparently, is it even very effective. But to your average, technically naive consumer, it's enough to stop the majority of imports.
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