AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime > Fansub Groups

Notices

View Poll Results: Fansub DVDs, Good idea/bad idea
Good Idea 15 34.88%
Bad Idea 28 65.12%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2004-01-26, 17:06   Link #21
crumja
AnimeONE Do-It-All
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: US
Age: 27
I'm against. Simply because subbing a R2 dvd and adding language/menu options is just like companies doing R1 releases except that the fansub group doesn't have to pay the license fee. Fansubs are supposed to be lower quality than dvds, so that people have incentive to buy dvds. Otherwise, how will the system work? It's just human nature to keep fansubs when they're equivalent to a dvd or better in some cases (karaoke, special effects, multicoloured subs).
crumja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 17:35   Link #22
Forse
r00t for life
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: /dev/null
Quote:
Originally Posted by crumja
I'm against. Simply because subbing a R2 dvd and adding language/menu options is just like companies doing R1 releases except that the fansub group doesn't have to pay the license fee. Fansubs are supposed to be lower quality than dvds, so that people have incentive to buy dvds. Otherwise, how will the system work? It's just human nature to keep fansubs when they're equivalent to a dvd or better in some cases (karaoke, special effects, multicoloured subs).
Well if dvd's of ALL series would come to everyone's local stores...still AS would generate a lot of hits (ofcoz it wouldn't exist then). Just face it ppl love free stuff. more anime dvd's in english > more dvdrips (yey ). I convert my ogm/mkv dvdrips (multilanguage dvd rips with jap/eng dub and subtitles) to DVD/SVCD format and play on my dvd player and you can't stop me
Forse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 19:03   Link #23
K_R
also known as K!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Quote:
Originally Posted by lomeando
Wrong. "Market protection" is really all about the microeconomic principle known as "price discrimination".
If only R2 Japan DVDs weren't so expensive =( I'd much rather give my money to the copyright owner rather than the license holder. (We all know which alternative really supports the anime industry). Also, I'm not quite sure if it,
Quote:
Originally Posted by complich8
it echoes malice toward the copyright owners...
,
since the anime makers concentrate on their home market, and Japanese p2p is already rife with DVDISOs anyway. It's more of a concern for the R1 licensees, for whom I don't really care.

Anyway, as far as DVD fansubs go, they're unfeasable now, because no one [outside Japan and Korea] really has the bandwidth to send out 4Gb DVDISOs. So, it's a bit of a non-issue.
K_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 19:41   Link #24
AG3
Inactive ex-WoW addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Age: 35
Bad idea, in my opinion. As stated earlier; fansubbers are not here to compete with the R1 distributers. That's when you cross the very thin line between promotion and piracy.
__________________
AG3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 20:20   Link #25
DrWho2002
Fushigi Mystery!! @_@
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
Hmm... I don't know that I necessarily agree with you here. Worldwide releases of videogames happens often enough, and those are region-encoded... And as far as prices becoming similar around the world goes, I think that in this scenario that would be the case, as it would be a co-ordinated effort. Will it happen? Who knows... it depends on just how popular fansubbing gets, I think. But, I certainly think that it could happen. I personally believe that these types of "market protection" attitudes will be disappearing soon, anyways, as it does not apply in this digital era. There's more money to be made if you expand your audience right from day one - eventually they'll figure that out.
Videogames are different than anime. There has to be a total translation of everything in there, which requires more time investment (as well as programming skill). Many times in the past some videogame companies have said "yeah, we're going to make this a simultaneous release in Japan and North America". Hasn't happened yet.

Is a Japanese person going to import an english game if he doesn't understand english? No. Vice versa as well. Hence there's not a big concern about reverse importation. I don't think that market discrimination will be disappearing anytime soon at all. It applies very much so in the digital era.
DrWho2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 20:39   Link #26
Shii
Afflicted by the vanities
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fish-shape Paumanok
Age: 27
I thought you meant subbing from DVD source. But it seems you meant making an entire DVD and adding a sub track to it? No way! That just makes it easier to replace buying anime legally with downloading subs for free.
__________________
Learn to define and spell mo
Shii (formerly known as ashibaka)
Shii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-26, 22:00   Link #27
method
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Quote:
(We all know which alternative really supports the anime industry).
You do know that American companies have to pay for the license.
method is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-27, 02:21   Link #28
LVO
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
I think if you do it for your own personal enjoyment, why not. I have a friend thats trying to cram Getbackers onto 2 DVDs with menus and title screens and all that stuff. But he is only doing it for himself. Just a way to spice up his collection, i guess. But I agree that DVDs are a poor method of distrobution. You are definitly falling into the area of those evil Chinese pirates, and thats a no-no
LVO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-27, 03:51   Link #29
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2002
Videogames are different than anime. There has to be a total translation of everything in there, which requires more time investment (as well as programming skill). Many times in the past some videogame companies have said "yeah, we're going to make this a simultaneous release in Japan and North America". Hasn't happened yet.

Is a Japanese person going to import an english game if he doesn't understand english? No. Vice versa as well. Hence there's not a big concern about reverse importation. I don't think that market discrimination will be disappearing anytime soon at all. It applies very much so in the digital era.
Well, global distribution in the videogame industry is actually happening, and an example has just recently happened actually... but I don't want to debate this topic too much in here, because I just know it's going to sway too much off topic. Let's just agree to disagree, and leave it at that for now.

On the main topic, there seems to be a fairly large consensus that, if nothing else, DVD fansubs are pretty unadvisable, as it treads so very close to piracy. Plus, many people make the point that it's unrealistic given the bandwidth limitations in most of world right now, and I think that's a good point.
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-27, 11:37   Link #30
Kensuke
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Finland
Bad idea, its a step closer to piratism and that would be very bad for "normal" fansubs too.

I have attached my own finnish subs to DVDs (and you still need that DVD to watch) since anime-DVDs with finnish subs are very rare and not all of my relatives understand english. I want to convert them to anime-fans.
Althought situation is slowly getting better (compared to what it was five years ago) as popularity of anime is growing in my homecountry.
Kensuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-27, 14:26   Link #31
Enragin_Angel
ナマケモノ
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
DrWho2002: Yes, I would import a game even though I don't understand Japanese that well. As did a bunch of other people who bought Naruto 2 (JP) for the gamecube. I also got games like FFX (JP) a while back. If there was no market for this then game import companies like ncsx, play-asia, etc wouldn't exist.
Enragin_Angel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-27, 15:02   Link #32
DrWho2002
Fushigi Mystery!! @_@
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Canada, eh?
That may be true that some people might import games they're not able to understand, but that number of people is very small. Some people can import FFX International if they want to and it would matter because you can choose for everything to be in english or not, all you would need is a Japanese PS2.
DrWho2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 00:40   Link #33
gohmifune
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Nashville
Age: 27
I'm for it to be honest, it really is no difference that the fansubs that were on vhs 10 years ago right? Plus, it does provide a much easier mode of the spread of fandom. Now, it really only works if it is something big and usually no likely to be liscensed say doraemon. Now jdramas would be perfect for this medium, anime on the other hand provides something far more unstable, but I don't think it is a bad idea.
gohmifune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 04:16   Link #34
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
I'm for it to be honest, it really is no difference that the fansubs that were on vhs 10 years ago right? Plus, it does provide a much easier mode of the spread of fandom. Now, it really only works if it is something big and usually no likely to be liscensed say doraemon. Now jdramas would be perfect for this medium, anime on the other hand provides something far more unstable, but I don't think it is a bad idea.
Keep in mind that there weren't many commercial subs back then and that the anime industry in the states is much larger now.
zalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 12:23   Link #35
MrMonkey
Meeeeeeee!!
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford, UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
Keep in mind that there weren't many commercial subs back then and that the anime industry in the states is much larger now.
Also keep in mind that you still had to actually find the VHS subs. Nowadays fansubs are avaliable to anyone with an internet connection. Its distribution on a MUCH larger scale.

Edit: and I think what the OP was getting at, is not simply putting fansubs on a DVD, but making an EXACT 1:1 copy of the R2 DVD and adding an English sub track.
MrMonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 13:26   Link #36
JAppi
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Gureibi wo aishite iru
Age: 27
Send a message via AIM to JAppi Send a message via MSN to JAppi Send a message via Yahoo to JAppi
What if they were to shove as many episodes on dvd as they could? That would signifigantly reduce the quailty. Since the quality has signifigantly been reduced wouldnt' that make it not as much of a threat to the dvd market?
JAppi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 17:11   Link #37
gohmifune
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Nashville
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMonkey
Also keep in mind that you still had to actually find the VHS subs. Nowadays fansubs are avaliable to anyone with an internet connection. Its distribution on a MUCH larger scale.

Edit: and I think what the OP was getting at, is not simply putting fansubs on a DVD, but making an EXACT 1:1 copy of the R2 DVD and adding an English sub track.
Yes, the market is bigger, but what is being fansubbed though, 10 years ago it was char's counterattack and other show's that weren't going to be liscensed. Now, it's airmaster, sexy commando, and doraemon. Fansubs are for the literal otaku, the people who are willing to find what they want and know what they are watching before they press play. We're not talking dbz, the people who are buying fansubs aren't casual watchers, sure naruto and gundam seed are popular, but what about the things that aren't going tbe liscensed, what's wrong with having a cromartie dvd, or a R1 version of Oseam? The things that you aren't going to see here shouldn't be relegated to 10k/s status when you know you want to watch it and share it.

Plus the response to making a copy is if the disto company doesn't like it, then they'll sub it, millenium actress went through that with international surveys and eventually amoutned to an english langauge track of subtitles to cut down on piracy. If it is such a problem then why are most people willing to comprimise? How many fans have own raw dvds or a R2 compatible player? Really, if it's for the fan, then why should the fan have to make the sacrifice?
gohmifune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 17:51   Link #38
zalas
tsubasa o sagashite
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Send a message via ICQ to zalas
Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
Yes, the market is bigger, but what is being fansubbed though, 10 years ago it was char's counterattack and other show's that weren't going to be liscensed. Now, it's airmaster, sexy commando, and doraemon. Fansubs are for the literal otaku, the people who are willing to find what they want and know what they are watching before they press play. We're not talking dbz, the people who are buying fansubs aren't casual watchers, sure naruto and gundam seed are popular, but what about the things that aren't going tbe liscensed, what's wrong with having a cromartie dvd, or a R1 version of Oseam? The things that you aren't going to see here shouldn't be relegated to 10k/s status when you know you want to watch it and share it.

Plus the response to making a copy is if the disto company doesn't like it, then they'll sub it, millenium actress went through that with international surveys and eventually amoutned to an english langauge track of subtitles to cut down on piracy. If it is such a problem then why are most people willing to comprimise? How many fans have own raw dvds or a R2 compatible player? Really, if it's for the fan, then why should the fan have to make the sacrifice?
Please define 'fan'
I differentiate fans from leechers in that fans appreciate the show and appreciate the hard work that the creators of the show have put in to create a work of entertainment. As a fan, I own raw dvds. Granted, I may have more money to throw around than the average teenager, but I'm sure the real fans would be willing to spend money on supporting the creators, provided they have the capability of doing so. And you know what, so what if you can't afford an R2? That doesn't mean you deserve to have it. If I can't afford a Ferrari doesn't mean I'm entitled to it for free, no matter how big a car otaku I am.

As for things that are not going to be licensed... how do you tell whether a show is never going to be licensed? Examples: Comic Party, Azumanga Daioh

And do you know how upset the Japanese companies would be if nearly free DVD copies of their work is being distributed in some foreign country without their permission and certainly without an expensive license. You know that basically kills ANY chance a R1 company would be willing to license it, right? (short of the company suing the fansub DVD distro to oblivion).
zalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 19:18   Link #39
Access
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xellos-_^
I ask for some opinions earlier, figure I make this into a poll.

So what does everyone think of the idea of Fansub DVDs? Not encoding a divx into a dvd, but actually subbing a R2 DVD. I especially want to kno what most fansubbers think of the idea.
Been there, done that. They are great for club showings since DVD players are very common and one can always count on having a DVD player wherever the next showing is. Whereas an SVHS VCR is rather rare these days and never something one can count on. People are happy with the quality and we don't have to worry about tapes ever degrading and having to be remastered when we decide to show it again. Many of us own original R2 DVDs and understand the full process of subbing them so it has never been much of a problem. It's definately a welcome change from the old days of mastering SHVS/VHS tapes from genlocks and amigas and LDs.
Access is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2004-01-28, 21:10   Link #40
gohmifune
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Nashville
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by zalas
Please define 'fan'
I differentiate fans from leechers in that fans appreciate the show and appreciate the hard work that the creators of the show have put in to create a work of entertainment. As a fan, I own raw dvds. Granted, I may have more money to throw around than the average teenager, but I'm sure the real fans would be willing to spend money on supporting the creators, provided they have the capability of doing so. And you know what, so what if you can't afford an R2? That doesn't mean you deserve to have it. If I can't afford a Ferrari doesn't mean I'm entitled to it for free, no matter how big a car otaku I am.

As for things that are not going to be licensed... how do you tell whether a show is never going to be licensed? Examples: Comic Party, Azumanga Daioh

And do you know how upset the Japanese companies would be if nearly free DVD copies of their work is being distributed in some foreign country without their permission and certainly without an expensive license. You know that basically kills ANY chance a R1 company would be willing to license it, right? (short of the company suing the fansub DVD distro to oblivion).
Dragon ball z was subbed to death, so were the gundams, and they all have been liscensed. So you can't say that fansubbing limits the market potential. Plus, the companies that are upset about fansubs take measures where they become unnecessary. Also, saying that a dvd fansub is as good as the region version is not true, I cherish my WHR subs( I love that show) but I am eagerly awating a box set. It isn't a matter of economics, for a fansub that ceases production when lisecnsed is of less concern than HK import dvds right?
gohmifune is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.