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View Poll Results: Fansub DVDs, Good idea/bad idea
Good Idea 15 34.88%
Bad Idea 28 65.12%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-01-28, 21:24   Link #41
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
Dragon ball z was subbed to death, so were the gundams, and they all have been liscensed. So you can't say that fansubbing limits the market potential.
Uh... hello... earth to gohmifune... this was before digisubbing. I do not think that all these people downloading Naruto are going to buy the box sets.
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Old 2004-01-28, 21:33   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashibaka
Uh... hello... earth to gohmifune... this was before digisubbing. I do not think that all these people downloading Naruto are going to buy the box sets.
Boxsets of Naruto? Well since it hasn't been liscensed I doubt it. And technically digisubbing has been around for a long time, vcds have been a popular medium for fansubs for as long as I can remember and it is much like the dvd authoring process no?

But it seems no one is getting what I am saying. It isn't enough of a problem( because you can find fansub dvds) where companies have to take a measure to prevent it. There's nothing wrong with adding another medium for anime fandom, especially if it doesn't dierectly take money from the R2 distributors(and all that means is no sending dvds to asia, since dvds R1 don't naturally play in europe).
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Old 2004-01-28, 21:50   Link #43
method
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Vcds haven't been as poplar as you think. Until cd burners started popping up, it was kind of hard to create them. In 96 when I started with fansubs the popular method was still vhs. Of course you can find fansub dvds, but that's not the what this topic about.
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Old 2004-01-28, 21:52   Link #44
gohmifune
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method
Vcds haven't been as poplar as you think. Until cd burners started popping up, it was kind of hard to create them. In 96 when I started with fansubs the popular method was still vhs. Of course you can find fansub dvds, but that's not the what this topic about.
The topic is about fansub dvds. The poll even asks whether or not they are a good idea.
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Old 2004-01-28, 22:16   Link #45
method
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
The topic is about fansub dvds. The poll even asks whether or not they are a good idea.
The topic is about adding a subtitle track to R2 dvds and distributing them

Quote:
So what does everyone think of the idea of Fansub DVDs? Not encoding a divx into a dvd, but actually subbing a R2 DVD. I especially want to kno what most fansubbers think of the idea.
I could mean something else, but that is the way I'm interpeting it.

Last edited by method; 2004-01-28 at 23:20.
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Old 2004-01-28, 22:20   Link #46
Access
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
The topic is about fansub dvds. The poll even asks whether or not they are a good idea.
Regarding the poll I don't see how anyone in their right mind can think it is not a good idea. It defies all logical thought. Yet ~2/3 people seem to object in the poll. As I posted before my club has used DVDs for our showings for the past 2 years. We have never distributed a single one and we own the R2 DVDs in the first place. Essentially we are just "making backups" of DVDs we own, adding our own subtitles, and showing them to the audience. Would someone explain to me why this is so objectionable. I have not seen one argument in this thread that relates to the subject matter at hand and also makes even the slightest degree of sense.

To make a fansub DVD you need a DVD burner and a DVD-R blank disc and an R2 DVD. Plus a little bit of know-how of how to add or change the subtitles. To fansub the old-fashioned way to VHS/SVHS tape you need an LD player, an LD, and a SVHS VCR. You also need an Amiga and a Genlock, or an equivelent setup that actually works. It's much easier to do things the former (DVD) way than the latter. Talk to anyone that has done both.
Likewise a DVD is a better master for future showings that will not degrade like tapes will, and a DVD player is much more common today and can be found in most places where a showing is likely to take place (school auditorium, library, member's houses, college campus, etc.)
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Old 2004-01-28, 22:35   Link #47
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
Regarding the poll I don't see how anyone in their right mind can think it is not a good idea.
The poll is talking about distributing bootlegged R2 DVDs with the subtitle track added.
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Old 2004-01-29, 01:22   Link #48
crumja
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
Regarding the poll I don't see how anyone in their right mind can think it is not a good idea.
Easy, just go ask someone like microlith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
It defies all logical thought. Yet ~2/3 people seem to object in the poll. As I posted before my club has used DVDs for our showings for the past 2 years.
Yeah, but that was for your own personal use, basically you and your 200 closest friends you could fit into an auditorium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
We have never distributed a single one and we own the R2 DVDs in the first place. Essentially we are just "making backups" of DVDs we own, adding our own subtitles, and showing them to the audience. Would someone explain to me why this is so objectionable.
Didn't I say that this is equivalent to a US company releasing a R1 DVD except that you wouldn't have to pay the license fee that supports the creators of the anime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
I have not seen one argument in this thread that relates to the subject matter at hand and also makes even the slightest degree of sense.
Because you're too firmly set in your belief that when you see a sensible post you skim over it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
To make a fansub DVD you need a DVD burner and a DVD-R blank disc and an R2 DVD. Plus a little bit of know-how of how to add or change the subtitles. To fansub the old-fashioned way to VHS/SVHS tape you need an LD player, an LD, and a SVHS VCR. You also need an Amiga and a Genlock, or an equivelent setup that actually works. It's much easier to do things the former (DVD) way than the latter. Talk to anyone that has done both.
Likewise a DVD is a better master for future showings that will not degrade like tapes will, and a DVD player is much more common today and can be found in most places where a showing is likely to take place (school auditorium, library, member's houses, college campus, etc.)
Fansubbing is not meant to supplant companies. It's because of people like you trying to defy the system and act as if you own the product that fansubbing has such a bad rep.
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Old 2004-01-29, 05:39   Link #49
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"So what does everyone think of the idea of Fansub DVDs? Not encoding a divx into a dvd, but actually subbing a R2 DVD. I especially want to kno what most fansubbers think of the idea."

Here is the original post. I don't see a mention of any type of distribution. Simply the act of "subbing a R2 DVD."

The right to make backup copies of meteriel you have legally purchased is part of "fair use". Distributing said copies is another matter altogether; certainly, it is illegal. And distributing DVD copies would be really bad. But that was never the question for the poll or post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crumja
Didn't I say that this is equivalent to a US company releasing a R1 DVD except that you wouldn't have to pay the license fee that supports the creators of the anime?

...

Fansubbing is not meant to supplant companies. It's because of people like you trying to defy the system and act as if you own the product that fansubbing has such a bad rep.
That company is buying the distribution rights with their license. It is their full intention, and right, to sell the product. The club never has, nor intends to, distribute anything to anyone.

Generally, there is no R1 release. There is no real point in fansubbing an R1 release, and if people want to see R1 releases, they can go to the other clubs that show them.

While I agree that fansubbing never should supplant companies or even compete with them, I fail to see how a club that subs to DVD alone (for its own showings, not distribution of any type) has _anything_ to do with defying the system or giving fansubbing a bad reputation. If you would believe this I would ask that you rethink what part of the "current system" you actually object to. Fansubbing and distribution are not the same thing, and the former should not imply the latter. The only way to supplant a legal company would be to distribute the meteriel in question. We have never charged for showings or club membership or anything related.

Perhaps "no distribution" is not understood. I don't mean "it is never distributed for profit" or "it is distributed 'at cost' only." (As pleanty of distributors claim). When I say no distribution I mean it is not given to anyone, period. It is perfectly legal as long as the copy is kept in the possession of the original owner of the DVD (and no one else). If he sells the originals he gives up the copy or destroys it. Read the law itself if you don't believe it.
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Old 2004-01-29, 07:49   Link #50
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The original post is vague.
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Old 2004-01-29, 12:21   Link #51
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Actually, on this topic, why would anyone want to make a 1:1 copy of a R2 DVD with a subtrack on? Unless you're going for 2 gigs or more per episode with perhaps sub standard encoding. Better to shrink it down to a 99% compatible KDVD at 500-700megs per episode with very good encoding STILL.
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Old 2004-01-29, 14:52   Link #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
Actually, on this topic, why would anyone want to make a 1:1 copy of a R2 DVD with a subtrack on? Unless you're going for 2 gigs or more per episode with perhaps sub standard encoding. Better to shrink it down to a 99% compatible KDVD at 500-700megs per episode with very good encoding STILL.
It's much easier not having to re-encode, doing an efficient encode can take 4 hours or more per episode, and other than bbMPEG/avi2mpg2 all the faster encoders cost money. The only thing you waste with large episodes is DVD-Rs. You want club showings to be as high quality as possible if a projector or large-screen TV is used.

If you do re-encode (only reason being to fit more on a disc) you might as well hard-code the subs so they look better than a standard sub track. Seeing as how it's pointless to play it w/o the subs when you plan on keeping the original DVD anyways.

And simply because it is re-encoded, that wouldn't make distribution OK, you'd be putting yourself in the same boat as the "HKDVD" pirates and the like.
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Old 2004-01-29, 16:57   Link #53
crumja
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Okay, so you're making yourself a dvd and modding your own property and showing it to your friends. There's no problem with that. But why ask an online forum of fansubbers something like this if you're not asking for help nor does the matter concern them? You did and your intent was misread by everyone here.
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Old 2004-01-30, 17:34   Link #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Access
It's much easier not having to re-encode, doing an efficient encode can take 4 hours or more per episode, and other than bbMPEG/avi2mpg2 all the faster encoders cost money. The only thing you waste with large episodes is DVD-Rs. You want club showings to be as high quality as possible if a projector or large-screen TV is used.

If you do re-encode (only reason being to fit more on a disc) you might as well hard-code the subs so they look better than a standard sub track. Seeing as how it's pointless to play it w/o the subs when you plan on keeping the original DVD anyways.
My god! 4 hours!? 0_o!!!! That's not long for a encode, kid...
And TMPGEnc+KDVD templates is "Free" :P
Japanese encoding is usely enificient, you can easily reduce size with no quality loss, or even improve on the original quality if you're good enough. Also, using KDVD is a FREE size drop with little or no quality loss. There's really no reason not to re-encode.
And I have my suspictions that DVD's softsubbing capabilities are much better than the R1 companies give it credit for....
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Old 2004-01-31, 15:05   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirCanealot
My god! 4 hours!? 0_o!!!! That's not long for a encode, kid...
And TMPGEnc+KDVD templates is "Free" :P
Japanese encoding is usely enificient, you can easily reduce size with no quality loss, or even improve on the original quality if you're good enough. Also, using KDVD is a FREE size drop with little or no quality loss. There's really no reason not to re-encode.
And I have my suspictions that DVD's softsubbing capabilities are much better than the R1 companies give it credit for....
Let me just reiterate that encoding using a lossy codec will ALWAYS result in quality loss. There may not be much noticeable loss, but the loss is still there. (The quantize after the DCT step will always chop off precision).
And the MPEG2 encoding facilities of TMPGEnc is NOT free (maybe for a trial period).
And DVD's softsubbing capabilities just pale in comparison to SSA (without ASS extensions). Kare Kano is the limit of what you can do with softsubs, and vol 1's subtitles BROKE on a lot of people's DVD players.
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Old 2004-01-31, 17:22   Link #56
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bad idea. noone would buy the R1 dvds if they could just download the DVD fansubs.

Though I could see certain groups (who I wont mention) seeing this as the "future" and pressing on ahead 100%. =\
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Old 2004-01-31, 20:15   Link #57
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TMPGEnc is free to all those that can read.

And you could possible gain more quality than you lose, if the DVDs encodeing/clean up is bad (this is so for many DVDs I've heard). Even if you do lose quality, losing a tiny ammount of quality and possible more than halving the size if a fair trade of by me.
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Old 2004-01-31, 22:14   Link #58
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dvd fansub

I agree that fansubbing dvds like ROD which is license and Naruto which very likely to be license is a bad idea, not the least of which is the lawsuits that will be file. But how about the fansubbing and distro of series like Sailorstar, To heart, Heavy Metal L-gaim, Galaxy Express999 and other old classics on DVDR?

And when i said fansub dvd i mean the adding of a eng sub track to r2 dvds. Release of 4 Eps a vol and if any downsampling needs to be done, it will be done with Cinemacraft Encoder(CCE). The best commercial DVD encoding program availble.
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Old 2004-01-31, 22:24   Link #59
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Xellos, you're doing this yourself? I'm for it, I don't think it is a bad idea, but ifyou do it, go for hard subtitles, it seems to be common amongst dvd digisubbers, and it really would cut down on the possibility of someone getting it from you instead of the R2 encode as a substitute.
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Old 2004-02-01, 00:07   Link #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gohmifune
Xellos, you're doing this yourself? I'm for it, I don't think it is a bad idea, but ifyou do it, go for hard subtitles, it seems to be common amongst dvd digisubbers, and it really would cut down on the possibility of someone getting it from you instead of the R2 encode as a substitute.

I wish ^_^

but I have no r2 dvds or know anyone to get it form and i don't know japnese so i can't translate. Now if someone has access to r2 dvds and wants to sub it, feel free to contact me.
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