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Old 2007-12-02, 15:36   Link #41
teachopvutru
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
5 things I look for in this budget.

1. power stability. A PSU has thee different kinds of voltage rails supplying power. 3.3volts, 5 volts and 12volts. what you want is stability across all those those power bands. a good psu will not fluctuate more than 10% plus or minus(5% for the really really top notch ones). The 12 volt power rail is the most important as it supplies most of the power.

2. reputation brands that have consistent review across all budgets, warranty etc etc

3. Efficiency. Ideally you want 80%+ certification, but 70% is pretty standard. It basically means no matter how much or little power you need it will run very efficiently and not waste power

4. Lots of connectors

5. I like the PSU to have a big fan. It almost always ensures quiet operation. It also helps with the cooling in a PC
Hmmm, I can't seem to find the 1st one in the spec...

It seems that I need less power than I thought according to the link you linked to in comparison with the one on newegg. I still don't understand what makes a motherboard "regular" or "high-end" though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
There, those are my voltages and clocks. CPU is undervolted from the stock 1.2250 to 2.1275, but then it increases to x.xx88 as needed. Note that depending on your location and temperatures, your CPU will run cooler than mine. It's at 42C because it's 75F outside, since it's hot as hell and all <_<.
75F isn't hot. But since it's winter right now, I guess it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
But when you get to stuff like LCDs, of which there're many types, sizes and brands, you'll start seeing that retailers sometimes pull off better prices through rebates and promotions.

Same Monitor you picked up, for $20 less after MIR. And that's just because I'm only looking at Compusa - If you shop around you might find some better deals.
That monitor is sold out on compusa, sadly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Couple of things to check:
1) Does the motherboard come with SATA cables?
2) Does the monitor come with VGA/DVI cables that will work with your video card?
3) Do you have an extra LAN Cable to connect the new computer to the internet?
4) A router if you don't have one already, so you can share the connection with the one you're using?
5) Speakers for the new rig, if you're not gonna use the ones you already have?
6 ) Do you have a whole day free that you can devote to building the machine? It's sometimes not nice having to stop at midpoint and then coming back and not remembering where you stopped.
7) Is the power supply set to work with the voltage in your area? 110/220v is what I mean with this. Having the wrong selection could fry things up. Plug the PSU to the power outlet first and turn it on before connecting to any hardware. If nothing happens, plug it off and continue.
1) If you mean it supports SATA. It should.
2) No idea. >=D
3) Not sure what the extra LAN cable is suppose to be like, but I'm using wireless internet device so an USB port is sufficient.
4) No need to worry about that part.
5) Hmmm, I actually forgot about the speakers. Have an old speaker but don't know how good it is. But then, I don't know how good is an integrated sound card is...
6) That day will come.
7) No idea #2 >=D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
I can't stress enough that you will need to read the manual for your motherboard before starting with anything. Don't even take it out of the box before reading it, and always keep it handy. You will see that it's not just getting the components into place, it's also finding that pins go where - all motherboards have a HD LED, Power Led, Power on/off cable, the USB cable that comes in your Case that you'll need to find the right place to plug it in at, the front audio connectors and the HSF connector that needs to go into the motherboard to make sure it's spinning correctly. Trust me, it's not that hard once you know what goes where, but if you're going out of the box diving into the blue, you'll get overwhelmed quickly.
Thank you for the advice

But really... I wonder why it looks so easy when I watch the videos on howstuffworks.com lol.

So now the only thing left is if there's any possible change to my wishlist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem
Just a note on this, it is theoretically possible to work around this using splitters. The most common splitters are Y-splitters

Even though you're splitting the line, the PSU can't provide more than a certan amount of power along that line (or if you want the official terminology, along that rail). If I hook up seven fans, I'm probably fine. If I hook up seven power-hungry hard drives, and put them all into access at the same time, they probably won't be getting the power that they need and I may damage the PSU in the process.
I believe for my usage, I don't need a lot of connectors anyway. You mostly need it for extra hard drives and fans right?

EDIT:
Withdraw keyboard and mice from wishlist. My uncle's workplace just threw out two sets of mice and keyboard. And they haven't been used too...
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-02 at 15:58.
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Old 2007-12-02, 16:28   Link #42
hobbes_fan
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High end: generally if it's more than $150USD it's safe to say its a high end desktop. (It will have more sata ports, more overclock options, more PCI slots, 2 or more PCIE slots fo SLI or Crossfire etc etc)


Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
THe FSP is the PSU of choice from what it seems for tomshardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/search/s...ortron&x=0&y=0
Further comments
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/...source_ax450pn

The good thing about newegg is they show the actual package. What's bundled with each product.

For any SATA device (HDD, DVD etc) you will need 1 SATA Data cable and 1 Sata power cable (see the PSU fo this one)

But for a One HDD, One dvd setup you shouldn't need any additional cables apart from those bundled
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Old 2007-12-02, 17:36   Link #43
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
High end: generally if it's more than $150USD it's safe to say its a high end desktop. (It will have more sata ports, more overclock options, more PCI slots, 2 or more PCIE slots fo SLI or Crossfire etc etc)


Further comments
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/05/...source_ax450pn

The good thing about newegg is they show the actual package. What's bundled with each product.

For any SATA device (HDD, DVD etc) you will need 1 SATA Data cable and 1 Sata power cable (see the PSU fo this one)

But for a One HDD, One dvd setup you shouldn't need any additional cables apart from those bundled
Hmmm... how do you check the power stability? From review site?

It feels tempting to get either that one or the HIPER one, especially now that I've read a comment from a user who had his/her PSU broke after 2 years...

Regarding the wish list, I don't think there are many changes to do anymore...
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-02 at 18:41.
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Old 2007-12-02, 18:41   Link #44
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
1) If you mean it supports SATA. It should.
2) No idea. >=D
3) Not sure what the extra LAN cable is suppose to be like, but I'm using wireless internet device so an USB port is sufficient.
4) No need to worry about that part.
5) Hmmm, I actually forgot about the speakers. Have an old speaker but don't know how good it is. But then, I don't know how good is an integrated sound card is...
6) That day will come.
7) No idea #2 >=D
1 - What I mean is that you should look into the package of the Mobo you have and see if it provides the SATA cables for your HD. Since Newegg only sells OEM HDs ( no cables, manuals or whatever ), you'd have trouble if you didn't have any around.
2 - The Video Card you chose has two DVI ports. On the other hand, your monitor has one DVI and one VGA - You'll be fine since it includes a DVI-DVI cable, so you don't need to worry about it in this case.
7 - This you'll only find out when you take out the PSU from the box. Just look at the switch and make sure it says "110" if you live in an area where they use 110V power or "220" if they use 220. I don't know much about the uses geographically, but from what I know, the majority of places in NA is 110, while people in the southern hemisphere tend to go with 220. Why, beats me. I lived there and I know, that's why.

Quote:
But really... I wonder why it looks so easy when I watch the videos on howstuffworks.com lol.
The guy who did it probably has a lot of knowledge about computers and he knows what he's doing, and has done the same thing countless times. It's nothing to be afraid of. You just need to be careful. That's all.

Edit:

Oh wow, haha. All this talk about hardware and stuff is making me wanna get a new computer But I gotta save up to go to Japan, can't waste it all on tech T_T
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Old 2007-12-02, 18:57   Link #45
hobbes_fan
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2 years and this concerns you? If it failed in 3 months I'd be questioning reliability. That's acceptable reliability out of a batch of thousands, that's 18000 hours. After that there's just a lot of variables to consider as to why PSU's fail after this time, odds ae thee were other factors involved. Consider that these are mass produced goods that's also not considering user failure. ie not using a surge protector, overload, poor system cooling etc etc. Think about it, out of a thousand, one or two units is a very small percentage. No mass produced product has 100% reliability rating. Not to mention shill reviewers.

FSP is recommendation based more on reputation. And overall reviews of all their products from th budget level to the high peformance level. Their similar units also review quite well. They basically make name branded PSU's for big name brands and rebranded. AFAIK they make for OCZ, Zalman and PC power and Cooling. Now these brands are out of your price range and are overkill for your purpose but among the gaming high performance community their reputation is 2nd to none.

Here this might help you understand more about PSU (see note on Thermaltake, see note on trusted manufacturers)
http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Power_Supply_Unit

Now tomshardware has used this PSU for numerous builds and really push it with overclocking, high end graphics cards and the like. The builds in themselves IMO justify the capabilities beyond what you would be trying to do.
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Last edited by hobbes_fan; 2007-12-02 at 19:09.
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Old 2007-12-02, 19:03   Link #46
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
1 - What I mean is that you should look into the package of the Mobo you have and see if it provides the SATA cables for your HD. Since Newegg only sells OEM HDs ( no cables, manuals or whatever ), you'd have trouble if you didn't have any around.
2 - The Video Card you chose has two DVI ports. On the other hand, your monitor has one DVI and one VGA - You'll be fine since it includes a DVI-DVI cable, so you don't need to worry about it in this case.
7 - This you'll only find out when you take out the PSU from the box. Just look at the switch and make sure it says "110" if you live in an area where they use 110V power or "220" if they use 220. I don't know much about the uses geographically, but from what I know, the majority of places in NA is 110, while people in the southern hemisphere tend to go with 220. Why, beats me. I lived there and I know, that's why.
1) Wow... I just realize that I should look at the images to know what may be inside what I buy... What a bummer ._.
2) Okay
7) Hmmm, what if I happen to receive a 220 and my area uses 110?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
The guy who did it probably has a lot of knowledge about computers and he knows what he's doing, and has done the same thing countless times. It's nothing to be afraid of. You just need to be careful. That's all.
Probably... he seemed rather confident when he showed and explained his steps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Oh wow, haha. All this talk about hardware and stuff is making me wanna get a new computer But I gotta save up to go to Japan, can't waste it all on tech T_T
I'd say go to Japan but it's not like I can dictate your choice

Anyway, look like I only have to decide whether to get a different PSU or not and I'm good to go. Btw, what's the common day of the week newegg usually change their sale offers?

PS: gotta do homework ;_;

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
2 years and this concerns you? If it failed in 3 months I'd be questioning reliability. That's acceptable reliability out of a batch of thousands, that's 18000 hours. After that there's just a lot of variables to consider as to why PSU's fail after this time, odds ae thee were other factors involved. Consider that these are mass produced goods that's also not considering user failure. ie not using a surge protector, overload, poor system cooling etc etc. Think about it, out of a thousand, one or two units is a very small percentage. No mass produced product has 100% reliability rating. Not to mention shill reviewers.

FSP is recommendation based more on reputation. And overall reviews of all their products from th budget level to the high peformance level. Their similar units also review quite well. They basically make name branded PSU's for big name brands and rebranded. AFAIK they make for OCZ, Zalman and PC power and Cooling. Now these brands are out of your price range and are overkill for your purpose but among the gaming high performance community their reputation is 2nd to none.

Here this might help you understand more about PSU (see note on Thermaltake, see note on trusted manufacturers)
http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Power_Supply_Unit
Will stick with what I already chosen then

One question regarding PSU. If I choose a one with too high Watt that the components don't really need then all it'd do is waste on electric bills, right?

On another note, regarding static electricity, I still don't understand why I rarely see anti-static glove being suggested or mentioned on building pc guides... usually it's the wrist trap that does...
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2007-12-02 at 19:27.
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Old 2007-12-02, 22:41   Link #47
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
7) Hmmm, what if I happen to receive a 220 and my area uses 110?
Well, I'm pretty sure any good quality PSU out there has a switch that changes it from 110 to 220 and vice-versa, so you just need to make sure it's at the right place.

Quote:
I'd say go to Japan but it's not like I can dictate your choice

Anyway, look like I only have to decide whether to get a different PSU or not and I'm good to go. Btw, what's the common day of the week newegg usually change their sale offers?
Well I haven't figured out when or how many days they keep'em up, but the Patriot has been with that rebate for quite a few weeks now.

And yeah, I'm planning on going once I have enough money - but without a job and relying only on the leftovers of a bi-anual deposit from which I need to pay for college and what-not, it might take longer than expected. B00.

Quote:
One question regarding PSU. If I choose a one with too high Watt that the components don't really need then all it'd do is waste on electric bills, right?
Now that's a good question. I'm inclined to saying no and that the PSU takes what it needs, but again, common sense is rarely a characteristic of technology, so...
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Old 2007-12-02, 23:06   Link #48
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It'll take what it needs.
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Old 2007-12-03, 02:17   Link #49
teachopvutru
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Hmmm... ? So pretty much the only reason for buying one with lower Wattage is because it's cheaper? I always thought that it was to make sure not to burden on any electrical bill.

Anyway, I just placed my order.

So that leaves the rest to waiting... But I think I'm going to make a list of stuffs to do just for reference, since several stuffs I've been adviced to do, I can't really remember them all.

Regarding static electricity:
-Will leave this part blank for now since my understanding of grounding is still not very clear. Is grounding suppose to be the process of ESD to the ground?

Before building:
-Read motherboard manual THOROUGHLY before doing anything.
-Hijack the kitchen. (Restroom probably isn't sufficient)
-Make sure humidity is moderate that day. (I'm living on VA and it should be safe when maximum humidity is about %50 right?)
-Do not wear cloth with err.... no idea.
-Buy pain reliever.

During building:
-Take extra precaution against static electricity when handling CPU. There's no need for any amount of pressure when installing CPU as to not break the pins.
-Only apply very THIN, piece-of-paper-width thin thermal paste.
-Make sure to apply enough pressure when installing Fan and Heatsink. It's hard to install it.
-When adding RAM and the thing to fit on the case that comes with the motherboard, they attached in place when there's no audible click.
-Use zip ties to tie the extra wires from PSU.


More like a list of precaution. I think I still miss a lot of things though. But right now... I still have homework left to do ;_;

PS: On another note, what would be a safe temperature range for components to operate?
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Old 2007-12-03, 12:34   Link #50
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
PS: On another note, what would be a safe temperature range for components to operate?
It'll depend greatly on your components. The low C2Ds ( 1066mhz FSB, E6400 and etc ) can run up to 65 degrees, although they will start to fail anywhere over that - Although I think I heard somewhere saying they're good up to 120 degrees. I could be mistaking that information for the 8800 series, though. Still, you shouldn't have any problems with that if you installed everything correctly, meaning the HSF is correctly placed and thermal paste was properly placed. Unless you're overclocking, you shouldn't worry about the temperature of your RAM all that much. What you should be mainly concerned is with your CPU, your GPU and MCP. HDs won't run very hot if they're in a case with good airflow, so don't worry much about that either.

If you're not that concerned with the noise, you can always use something like RivaTuner to kick up the fan in your GPU to 100% and leave it there - though it shouldn't make much of a difference when it's idle. You can do basically the same with your HSF, though I only know how to do it in the BIOS. Shouldn't be very hard though. Or you could do what the guys with balls do ( like me ) and get a 2500RPM 120mm fan for Intake and run it on max when you're gaming. HOWEVER, prepare to have the neighbors thinking you're running an illicit airport at your home, 'cause this thing is the closest to a jet engine you will ever get without buying a plane. The 110CFM airflow I get usually cools everything down by 4, 5 degrees, but it's almost unbearable for constant use.

Still, your case seems to have good airflow and lots of space for air to circulate, so that's one less thing you have to worry. If you're really concerned, you could always get a 80mm fan and stick it to the side panel as a third exhaust, but with your PSU and a rear fan, the benefits would be very mild.

Quote:
-Make sure humidity is moderate that day. (I'm living on VA and it should be safe when maximum humidity is about %50 right?)
Humidity? [sparta] THIS IS FLORIDAAAAA[/sparta]. Ehem, anyway. We usually have over 70% humidity here, especially during the summer and all. I didn't have a problem with it, but it could be that we're with the AC on 24/7, which removes a lot of the air humidity anyway.

And don't wear clothing with anything that can grab onto components, like a jacket with a ziper or whatever. I'd say it's hard to damage anything, but if you drop it because of that, then there's big trouble. Pain relievers aren't necessary... you might get a bit of a headache if you get into a dead end, but the best thing to do is to look online before you start doing crazy stuff like calling the EVGA support line and spending 20 minutes waiting for an answer to ask "I have everything setup... WHY DOES MY 8800 NOT CLICK WHEN I PUT IT IN? ;_;" to which they reply "Did you press it?" "I'm afraid to press it too hard..." "Just put some pressure." "Ok but if I break it- * CLICK * ... Okay got it thanks ".

Stuff like that. . .
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Old 2007-12-03, 14:35   Link #51
hobbes_fan
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60-70C would be the upper limit for dual core CPU's. But generally 30-50C would be the norm. CPU's wll shut themselves down automatically once it gets too hot.

Video Cards get to about 100C no worries.

This is the most important
HDD's are very sensitive to heat. 30-50C as a general rule is safe. Any more starts to affect the lifespan. Thankfully most cases position the HDD's at the bottom front of the case in front of the front intake.

I diubt you will ever see the high end temps. Basically these are temps are more in line with overclocking hardcore gaming setups

In a tower style case I think it's more beneficial to have the fans configured in the following way

Front=intake
Side= intake
Rear=exhaust
(remember the PSU has a fan too which also is an exhaust)

Why I believe the side should be intake: look at where the cool air it blows in, it blows directly on top of your video card and motherboard. Hot air rises so the airflow will still be efficient with the wind tunnel effect. Efficient airflow is more important than sheer volume of fans
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Old 2007-12-03, 15:28   Link #52
Zero Shinohara
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Quote:
Why I believe the side should be intake: look at where the cool air it blows in, it blows directly on top of your video card and motherboard. Hot air rises so the airflow will still be efficient with the wind tunnel effect. Efficient airflow is more important than sheer volume of fans
I agree with you here, and that's how I have my rig setup. However, I can't help think that having the side fan as an intake actually increases temperatures as opposed to it being an exhaust. It makes me wonder because, even though you're blowing new, fresh air ontop of the CPU, aren't you also pushing the hot air against that area as well? I know it's pretty hard to figure these things out and that there shouldn't really be an impact when it comes to the side panel fan, at least in this case, but still makes me wonder which setup is better.

What I do want to do in the future is have a separate acrylic panel with four quiet 110mm fans on the side panel as intakes. Probably overkill, but should drop the temperatures a couple of degrees.
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Old 2007-12-03, 16:08   Link #53
hobbes_fan
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See I'm of the opinion that it won't make much difference. The air will be a bit warmer, but considering the physics(?) of heat dispersion and bearing in mind you also have cool air blowing in from the front mixing in as well the movement of the air will be more beneficial than having the compromised airflow as there will be no stagnating pockets of hot air which is worse and does more to build up heat. (basically I think of it like an oven, if the door is open you can't build up heat, if the door is closed heat builds up more efficiently).

Basically in my setup I also have a 4 fan setup but I apply to the negative pressure theory. More air out than in. Remember that the case is not airtight. Front and side 120mm intake are at low revs and rear 120mm is on high working with th 120mm fan in the PSU. THe intakes are there to promote airflow, rather than pumping huge amounts of air in which will sit and stagnate to build up heat. Remember heat rises, by having the side as an exhaust (usually the bottom half of the side) I'm of the opinion that the wind tunnel effect is compromised, basically the cool air from the front is being drawn out almost immediately by the side exhaust rather than flowing through the case and drawing heat away from heatsinks and the like.

Water cooling will probably be my next step personally, but phase cooling maybe worth a look when I upgrade in 18months. Petty happy with my current setup but an ati 3870 maybe the only upgrade I can think of, but that's dependent on how much I can offload my 2900xt for.

None of this should ever apply to tiachopvutru though. As long as one fan is intake and one fan is exhaust that's all he needs. This is just us trying to squeeze every bit of performance out.
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Old 2007-12-03, 16:35   Link #54
teachopvutru
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Okay, thanks. Just curious on that part regarding temperature thing, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
Pain relievers aren't necessary... you might get a bit of a headache if you get into a dead end
What you said in the past indicates that pain reliever is a necessary:
Quote:
And I'll be the first one to let you know that installing the HSF is a pain in the butt.
(yea yea, it was probably a lame joke <.<)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara View Post
but the best thing to do is to look online before you start doing crazy stuff like calling the EVGA support line and spending 20 minutes waiting for an answer to ask "I have everything setup... WHY DOES MY 8800 NOT CLICK WHEN I PUT IT IN? ;_;" to which they reply "Did you press it?" "I'm afraid to press it too hard..." "Just put some pressure." "Ok but if I break it- * CLICK * ... Okay got it thanks ".

Stuff like that. . .
My ability to speak English fluently ranges from bad to worse, so I've never resorted to phone call before. So no worry, that won't happen

EDIT:
Yep, none of all the fan things seem to be much I should be concerned about, although I'm not going to lie to say that I don't really understand the whole thing anyway. XD

Also, may "MCP" be Media Communication Processor? (got from wikipedia)
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Old 2007-12-03, 16:48   Link #55
hobbes_fan
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What ? MCp? In what context?
it potentially could mean Microsoft Certified Professional
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Old 2007-12-03, 16:54   Link #56
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hobbes_fan View Post
What ? MCp? In what context?
it potentially could mean Microsoft Certified Professional
In this context:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero Shinohara
Unless you're overclocking, you shouldn't worry about the temperature of your RAM all that much. What you should be mainly concerned is with your CPU, your GPU and MCP.
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Old 2007-12-03, 17:09   Link #57
Zero Shinohara
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@hobbes_fan:

I see your point and yeah, it makes sense. However, in my case, I have a faster Intake than exhaust, but consequently when I turn the intake up, I also turn the Zalman and the PSU fans to the max, which probably makes up for the increased cold air in the case and won't leave air to stagnate. All in all, my case feels rather cool, unless I'm really pushing it, which tends to take its toll when everything is on their minimum speeds.

I'd love to try phase cooling, but I just don't think it would be recommended at where I'm at right now, with the very limited space and everything ( room is very small and I have very little working area, so adding a condenser to the setup would bring me more headaches than not). Water would be great, but I would just rather save some money to go directly to the Phase technology. I mean, running a processor at -50C does give you some powerful bragging rights

@tiachopvutru:

Haha, it is a pain in the butt, but since you're not installing something like the Tuniq or the Zalman, where a wrong move can literally chop your finger right off ( those blades are veeeery sharp and I even cut myself at least twice on them ), the painkillers won't be necessary. Unless you drop the case on your foot .

And if you want my opinion, you're fairly well on your english. I can't say a lot myself since it's not my first language and I do know I make lots of mistakes, though, so my compliment might not say much.

And yes, I'm referring to the MCP as the processing unit that does the communication between CPU, GPU and what-not, The Media Communication Processor itself. My mobo had some problems with it, meaning that it would run at up to 65 degrees... then I had to RMA it for the new A1 revision, which fixed it. It's now running at pleasant 40-45 - I even took out the HSF for the MCP and replaced the thermal paste gallore that comes with it with a good-looking layer of AS5 for even more cooling awesomeness.

If you're concerned about HD cooling, pick up an HD Fan later on. I have one, though it's not attached to any of my drives because I heard that the vibration in the fan slowly kills the drive if they're attached. My drives rarely go past 30C with it.
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Old 2007-12-03, 20:29   Link #58
hobbes_fan
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Actually your English is quite good. All your questions are reasonable and logical. I mean, it sounds as if you have done you own research and not just expecting the answer to be handed to you. The punctuation is quite good too. All in all as someone who mainly hangs around the tech forum, all your posts are intelligent and superior to some very recent threads.

I hate tying to help people who ask questions like "xyz program/hardware it doesn't work it sux how do I fix it cos it pisses me off ZOMGWTFBBQ" Well, better technical descriptions would help, a sentence structure would be nice. I instantly pretty much can say it's not the program/hardware's problem, it's the user who is causing the epic failure.

I mean none of us know it all at first, we all learn by asking questions, but it's easier to help someone when they're trying to help themselves. Watch your PC knowledge just jump in leaps and bounds once you finish you build. There's nothing like doing it yourself. You start understanding how the different pieces work together and how to make the most of what you have and what to look for when you buy hardware.
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Old 2007-12-03, 22:36   Link #59
teachopvutru
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Join Date: Feb 2007
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I was referring to my ability to speak English, as in, orally. It would make me very happy if I can ever speak as well as I write. (but my pronunciation is bad anyway, *sigh*)

Well, now that I've just taken a four and a half hour nap, my head feels a lot clearer .

Anyway... mixed information regarding handling static electricity again. Or more specifically, grounding.

http://www.thatdamnpc.com/don%E2%80%...ding-yourself/

So in there, it says for ATX PSU, there's no need to plug it into the power socket. What I don't understand is, don't you plug the cord in so the static electricity transfer from you to the PSU and then into the power socket (I'm not really sure about this one, and even if it's true, I'm not sure where the static electricity would go after that)?

Also, am I correct in assuming that by touching the unpainted metal part of the case, I have to make sure that the PSU actually has direct contact with the case? I'm also wondering if I can use the spiritual techniques I find regarding "grounding" that goes close your eyes, relax, let go, and release your energy to the earth... Well yea, I'm just kidding.

This part isn't related to static electricity but I'm interest in a certain "sweet" period when buying computer components. From what I know, it's usually the time when the component makers release the latest stuffs.

*Off topic*: Back to static electricity but doesn't have anything to do with computer building, from what I've read, static electricity gradually build up on your body. Now, if you don't have a mean to ESD to, would the static electricity in your body gets to the level of too high and you die from it? Keep in mind that there wasn't any basis for me on saying that. I'm just operating on the principle of "everything in excess is a bad thing." XD


PS **Note to self**
Always stand in one place when building. Reground self if the feet move.
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Old 2007-12-03, 22:56   Link #60
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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You'll enjoy the electrical aspect of physics.

Any time you touch something, there is a transfer of energy between the two objects so that they reach an equilibrium together. If you are at a much greater level of energy than what you touch, there will be a static reaction - the amount of energy transferred will be so high that it will be a noticable form of electricity. Generally, this is a bit painful, you can hear a sort of popping sound, and you can see a little light. That's the sort of static shock that kills electrical components. Simply transferring energy normally won't do anything damaging - it's when there's that critical buildup that results in an electrical discharge of sorts.

An analogy would be rain and water vapor. There's water vapor all around, and it's constantly changing in the sky, but it's only when there's a critical buildup of the vapor (among other things) that rain results.

The "ground" is a physics term which basically refers to a source that can infinitely accept charge. In other words, the ground will never become charged to the point where it releases charge. When you ground yourself, you release any excess charge that you held, and you also become capable of accepting excess charge and passing it to the ground, thus essentially neutralizing whatever you touched.

You can generate static electricity because you're converting one form of energy to another, and boosting the energy of (also referred to as "exciting") atoms. The common example is dragging your feet along a rug - you're performing mechanical energy and creating friction, which in turn produces heat and excites molecules, which now means that you and the rug have a buildup of energy.

With regard to your question about whether you could die from a massive energy buildup, the answer is no. Perhaps in theory it'd be possible, but I'm somewhat doubtful... either way, in practice, it's not feasible. As I mentioned, static discharge occurs when there's a great difference in charges between two bodies. The greater your difference with your environment, the easier it is to discharge. If you had a massive buildup, you'd simply be discharging all over the place - thus bringing your charge down. It would be very difficult, if not practically impossible, to build up enough charge on your body that it could be potentially threatening to you in some form.
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