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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 54 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 54 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 26 16.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 9.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 3.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.62%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.62%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 3.09%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-11, 03:45   Link #281
hamstar
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Spoiler:

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CAUSE THEY’RE HUMAN YOU BITCH, UNLIKE YOU.

this is exactly what i thought too
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Old 2007-12-11, 03:49   Link #282
LightningZERO
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I hate her now because of what she said
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:31   Link #283
Eidolon Sniper
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I am pretty sure that if the Meisters were all perfect, Gundam 00 wouldn't have progressed beyond episode 1.
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Old 2007-12-11, 04:55   Link #284
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Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
I hate her now because of what she said
I, for one, thought it made her a much more interesting character; her cruel flippant attitude is obviously intended to be a flaw, there's a lot more you can go to for someone like that. Besides, I'd rather have a flawed character than another Lacus a mary-sue.
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Old 2007-12-11, 05:06   Link #285
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Excellent episode, I admit I didn't expected GN-004 to be inside of GN-005's armour but I don't think I like its design. ;p

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Originally Posted by kafka View Post
Besides, I'd rather have a flawed character than another Lacus a mary-sue.
QFT
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Old 2007-12-11, 06:22   Link #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
I hate her now because of what she said
I'm not, because I think what she's wondering is right. She just believed that the Meisters are chosen by Veda would be perfect. I don't see anything wrong when she is realize that the Gundam Meister is merely human, and start to wonder about that.
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Old 2007-12-11, 06:40   Link #287
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Kira's pretty normal to me. He never enjoyed killing, so I don't see where you get the idea of a monster from.
well alleluja doesn't like it as well. But he's doing it because of ... of ... veda?

however, it would be funny if became like alleluja ^^
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Old 2007-12-11, 07:30   Link #288
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Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell View Post
I'm not, because I think what she's wondering is right. She just believed that the Meisters are chosen by Veda would be perfect. I don't see anything wrong when she is realize that the Gundam Meister is merely human, and start to wonder about that.
I have no problem with some other people saying the Gundam Meisters are imperfect, but not her. Especially she's saying it while relaxing, enjoying the sunshine. I just think she doesn't have the right to criticize the Meisters
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:09   Link #289
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Madness?

This

is

GUNDAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM!

(You asked for it )
You know, that line would've actually worked for Hallelujah's scene.

Hapless Grunt: This is madness!

Hallelujah: Madness...
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:17   Link #290
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I wish i could say i loved this episode as i was really looking forward to it. Unfortunetly i could only rate this episode a 5/10 for certain personal reasons. One of my main complaints about the show has been the the Gundam Meisters themselves. They did not seem like people therefore i could not identify with them as characters they didnt seem human. Now in this episode i got my wish the best way to get the audiece to identify with characters and making them vulnarable and bring their personalites to the forefront by showing character flaws since non of us are perfect. But they blew this way out of porpotion with Hallelujah/Allelujah. His split was not belivable and just silly with his split personality disorder where one side is peaceful and the other is a raving lunatic who enjoys killing people(cliche) I dont care if he is a modified human. Setsuna I have already said my peace about Mr blab top secrets. I didnt really have a problem with Lockon as a character but that whole shit about his Gundam and why he couldnt snipe properly still annoyed me (try relying on skill not machines). However i will say that the meisters do seem a little more human this time and with what wang said its going to make things even more interesting. "Why are the Meisters so lacking?" Because they are HUMAN an important fact we must keep in mind.

The second round of problems came with the capturing of the Gundams and the only real problem i had was with "The gaint" as the HRL called it. I dont understand staying in one place while engaging an enemy and in the process getting surrounded and still not moving and only relying on your cannons. Just because it was bulky does not mean it can not move we have seen it move pretty damn fast. That just shows if they dont have a plan the meisters are inept at making stratgies on their own.

Now the good things about the episode was just how the HRL handled the Gundams and their capture it was well thought out with a pretty decent commander leading them. Animation the same as usual i have no compliants about it and the actual fighting i thought was good as well. Of course the big part was seeing a Gundam within a Gundam Wow i never expected the second one to actually be inside Virtue when armour started purging i was like OH SHIT

So I didnt like this episode that much but i didnt hate it i still see awsome potential in the series and im waiting for it patiently. I am enjoying 00 more at this point then i did Seed Destiny so thats something.
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:28   Link #291
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Originally Posted by LightningZERO View Post
I have no problem with some other people saying the Gundam Meisters are imperfect, but not her. Especially she's saying it while relaxing, enjoying the sunshine. I just think she doesn't have the right to criticize the Meisters
Hmm....I'm not going to argue with you about this. However, have you ever think about how the boss complain or blame his employment when they didn't do their job perfectly?
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Old 2007-12-11, 08:32   Link #292
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Arrow

Anyone notice how genre-aware Hallelujah is? He was reciting anime death cliches.

Must be a super-soldier ability: at some subconscious level, they know they're in an anime.
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Old 2007-12-11, 09:16   Link #293
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Originally Posted by kafka View Post
I, for one, thought it made her a much more interesting character; her cruel flippant attitude is obviously intended to be a flaw, there's a lot more you can go to for someone like that. Besides, I'd rather have a flawed character than another Lacus a mary-sue.
There's nothing wrong with hating her.

Though I like to hear her story on why she's in CB in the first place and what gives her the right to question the pilots who are doing most of her work?

Last I check they all follow Veda, not her.

Last edited by SoldierOfDarkness; 2007-12-11 at 09:41. Reason: Oops, wrote You instead of her
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Old 2007-12-11, 09:31   Link #294
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Originally Posted by idofgrahf View Post
Because Setsuna, who fought aganist a supped up flap was hit and retreating despite his superior suit,
...which means he was following, what's the word, his orders to withdraw? And Graham landed one shot on his shield? That doesn't mean that Setsuna is somehow inferior to Graham; that just means that Setsuna can follow orders to withdraw. Besides, the entire point of CB withdrawing that episode was so that the Union could get brownie points for saving Taribia. None of the Gundam Meisters fought Union MS, even though we were told that Union MS were engaging. Does that make them bad pilots, because they fled despite their suits?



Quote:
the second time around, he's suits head was almost ripped of by sergie,
Sergei's plan involved losing one limb, and hoping that the Exia, which just chopped off a limb with its solid sword, wouldn't be able to chop off another. And low and behold, the designers of the Exia knew that there would be some things a solid blade wouldn't be good for, hence why they gave him beamsabers, covering one of Exia's flaws. Had Sergei tried that face move with any beam-saber equiped MS in any other series, would you have complained that a pilot who drew his beam saber was cheap for cutting off the arm? Because that's what you're really saying; that beam sabers on a gundam = bad piloting. Which I'm sure the likes of Amuro, Char, Kamille, Kira, Shinn, or basically any gundam pilot ever would be surprised to know that they suck.

Quote:
and he won because he's suite had more out put and more weapons,
His suit has had the same number of weapons since day one. The idea of using them sparingly is two-fold: it keeps secrecy about the Exia's abilities for a bit longer, and it is a dramatic effect in Bandai's goal to sell figures by showcasing each identity. It doesn't reflect on Setsuna's piloting ability, unless you suggesting that MS should only use one weapon ever. Meaning that Amuro sucked for having two beam sabres, a bazooka, a beam rifle, and a hammer, Kamille sucked in the Zeta for using the grenade launchers for surprise or because he unveiled the hyper-mega launcher for an operation, and let's not forget Kira and Shinn, who changed weapon set ups mid-flight. Clearly, they all suck.

Quote:
the other time when fighting against the mercs he was losing until his suits better weapon was able to destroy Ali's close range sword,
He was fighting Ali, the guy who trained him to fight, was always supperior to Setsuna in those fights, and who Setsuna has serious issues with. And this time your argument isn't even that Setsuna pulled out a weapon he already had, but that he disarmed Ali? A Flag's plasma sabre could have destroyed Ali's solid weapon, let alone any beam sabre from any series.
Quote:

again with the mobile armor, he took several torpedo hits again,
To the shield. Which is designed to take attacks to shelter an MS. Again, from any series. And Setsuna had clearly ditched the shield to draw his sabres, meaning that in effect that Setsuna did put an obstacle safely between himself and a threat. In the military, we call this "cover," and it's generally considered a good idea. I don't know what Civies are told to think, but we are taught to like it.

Quote:
thanks to his suite he survived. Seeing a pattern here?
I see that you are bitching about Setsuna having a beam saber, having more than one beam saber/close range weapon, and for basically fulfilling what would have happened in any other Gundam Universe to date, such as using a shield to block torpedoes/missiles, or using a beam saber at close range, or having a skilled rival in an inferior MS who puts up a strong fight. In short, Setsuna sucks because he has the skills of a typical skills of a Gundam protagonist.

Quote:
Virtue, after getting his shots dodge was about to lose until he revealed something the enemy didn't know,
...you do remember that I agreed that Tieria relied too much on the gundam's power?


Quote:
and Kyrois's pilot seemed to have one too many screw lose to be piloting anything,
Allelujah has a biological reaction when in the presence of a single individual. At no other time does he have problems with Hallelujah, and no one could have known or predicted the effect. And the effect is preventable, hence why Soma had any coherency in this last episode.


And none of which has anything to do with Allelujah's alleged over-reliance on his Gundam, and you haven't even mentioned Lockon. In your argument, you have basically accused only two of the Meisters of over-reliance on their Gundams, and one of them you accuse him of using beam sabers and acting like, GASP!, a pilot of a mobile suit.

I bow in the presence of your supperior analytical and argument skills.


Quote:
hence, in comparsion to pervious Gundam Ace's they seem to lack (so far) the aptitude for MS combat.
You're joking, right? Have you even seen Gundam series beside Seed? If you want "skill," look at the aptitude of Amuro, Shiro, or Uraki early in their series. And most of your "previous Gundam Ace's so far" were damn unrealistic: Kira was an ace the moment he jumped into a MS he had never seen before, and a number of the late UC gundam pilots went from civilian to ace in a matter of days. The last "trained" gundam pilots I can remember are Kou, Shiro, and Shinn. Kou plain sucked against Gato, Shiro litterally fell on his face the first mission, and Shinn was the only one to put up a skilled fight.

Quote:
Lastly, a good pilot would have been able to evade those tactics in the first place, in other words, a true ace would not have been stupid enough to place himself in such a tight spot to begin with.
Translation: A true ace would have used a beam saber from the get-go, and using a beam saber as second choice when there are technical limitations to extended beam-saber use in this universe is a sign of idiocy.

Seriously, almost all of your complaints were that Setsuna used a beam saber, or something as strong as one in case of the GN Blade. Do you have any idea how pathetic an argument that is?

And I hate to break it to you, but the "true aces" got into similar problems themselves. Kamille had to deal with Water-Zakus, Kamille had to obey orders to pull back when he could continue to fight from a good position, Amuro had to deal with the various mobile armors and MS that shot missiles into his shield (as has every other gundam pilot in existence), and every gundam pilot has used a plethora of weapons to attack the enemy. And even late in the series they could be surprised: well after Kamille developed as a newtype, Yazan was still thrashing him, and played as a sucker with the Hamrabi electric rope manuver. By your logic, Kamille would suck for falling for that.

Seriously, you not liking Setsuna =/= Setsuna (or most the other Meisters) sucking, especially when Setsuna pulls off what just about every other pilot went through.
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Old 2007-12-11, 13:34   Link #295
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Am I the only one who thinks one can be human, and therefore, flawed, without being a total nutjob who shouldn't be allowed to pilot anything deadlier than a tricycle?

I quite understand Wang when she wonders why, while the CB have a huge technological lead in technology, they are absolutely pathetic when it comes to human resources. It's not just the Meisters. Ptolemaios seems to be crewed, from the captain on down, by incompetent morons.

About the only ones so far who have performed adequately so far are Lolickon Can't-hit-the-broadside-of-a-barn Stratos and Felt.
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Old 2007-12-11, 15:11   Link #296
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
You're joking, right? Have you even seen Gundam series beside Seed? If you want "skill," look at the aptitude of Amuro, Shiro, or Uraki early in their series. And most of your "previous Gundam Ace's so far" were damn unrealistic: Kira was an ace the moment he jumped into a MS he had never seen before, and a number of the late UC gundam pilots went from civilian to ace in a matter of days. The last "trained" gundam pilots I can remember are Kou, Shiro, and Shinn. Kou plain sucked against Gato, Shiro litterally fell on his face the first mission, and Shinn was the only one to put up a skilled fight.
Uh...Kou was kind of a scrub from beginning to end. IMO, he never really got to the same skill level as Gato. Now Shirou, he was pretty badass. Then of course, you've got the uber guys like Amuro, Kira (the only two characters to ever Jedi slash a beam out of the sky with a saber, IIRC) and the like.

However, I do agree with you the guy's argument about Setsuna not being that great a pilot is BS. Setsuna seems to be, for this universe, a pretty damn good pilot thus far.

EDIT: And I think most people are calling Wang a douchebag because she's criticizing these guys for not being perfect when whoops, they're human. So by the fault it was a stupid comment simply on the logic that human =/= perfect. In addition, there's probably a bit of the "Well if it's so easy...then why don't YOU do it?" mindset going through some people's heads.
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Old 2007-12-11, 15:24   Link #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kafka View Post
I, for one, thought it made her a much more interesting character; her cruel flippant attitude is obviously intended to be a flaw, there's a lot more you can go to for someone like that. Besides, I'd rather have a flawed character than another Lacus a mary-sue.
Oh, I totally agree. If people thought she was just going to be a moe cosplayer girl they had her completely wrong. I've been waiting for an anime again that really captures the real world view that one can be pretty and glowing on the outside, but ugly and twisted on the inside, and not just in a tsundere character trope sort of way.
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Old 2007-12-11, 15:27   Link #298
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
...which means he was following, what's the word, his orders to withdraw? And Graham landed one shot on his shield? That doesn't mean that Setsuna is somehow inferior to Graham; that just means that Setsuna can follow orders to withdraw. Besides, the entire point of CB withdrawing that episode was so that the Union could get brownie points for saving Taribia. None of the Gundam Meisters fought Union MS, even though we were told that Union MS were engaging. Does that make them bad pilots, because they fled despite their suits?
You don't seem to understand that CB withdrew because their job was done and the flapp pilot complains that he got away, with such a superior suit I must wonder, why was Setsuna hit to begin with?



Quote:
Sergei's plan involved losing one limb, and hoping that the Exia, which just chopped off a limb with its solid sword, wouldn't be able to chop off another. And low and behold, the designers of the Exia knew that there would be some things a solid blade wouldn't be good for, hence why they gave him beamsabers, covering one of Exia's flaws. Had Sergei tried that face move with any beam-saber equiped MS in any other series, would you have complained that a pilot who drew his beam saber was cheap for cutting off the arm? Because that's what you're really saying; that beam sabers on a gundam = bad piloting. Which I'm sure the likes of Amuro, Char, Kamille, Kira, Shinn, or basically any gundam pilot ever would be surprised to know that they suck


His suit has had the same number of weapons since day one. The idea of using them sparingly is two-fold: it keeps secrecy about the Exia's abilities for a bit longer, and it is a dramatic effect in Bandai's goal to sell figures by showcasing each identity. It doesn't reflect on Setsuna's piloting ability, unless you suggesting that MS should only use one weapon ever. Meaning that Amuro sucked for having two beam sabres, a bazooka, a beam rifle, and a hammer, Kamille sucked in the Zeta for using the grenade launchers for surprise or because he unveiled the hyper-mega launcher for an operation, and let's not forget Kira and Shinn, who changed weapon set ups mid-flight. Clearly, they all suck.
Hence he won because of Exia's desginers is what you are saying, I don't see what that has to do with Setstuna's skills. What I am saying is if Sergei had a beam saber and an equalivlant MS to the Exia, he most likely would have won. Hence Setsuna is not a great pilot when he has a much superior suit and still allow an enemy lend a hit in. Amuro at the start of MS Gundam is no Ace, he manged Char based soley on his superior MS at first, later he got much better. However, given that Amuro was a civilian its forgivable, Setsuna was suppose to be a pro like Heero, yet unlike Heero he demonstrates no competency in a fair dual IE both side using same spec MS and fight it out. Kamille, Amuro, Loran, Char etc all faced equalivlant MS's during the fights, IE Char's Nightengale Vs Hi-Nu, spec was the same, no one can say that Amuro won because his MS was better, the same cannot be said of Setsuna. As for Shinn, damn right he suck didn't you watch GSD at all with its bam spamming?


Quote:
He was fighting Ali, the guy who trained him to fight, was always supperior to Setsuna in those fights, and who Setsuna has serious issues with. And this time your argument isn't even that Setsuna pulled out a weapon he already had, but that he disarmed Ali? A Flag's plasma sabre could have destroyed Ali's solid weapon, let alone any beam sabre from any series.
To the shield. Which is designed to take attacks to shelter an MS. Again, from any series. And Setsuna had clearly ditched the shield to draw his sabres, meaning that in effect that Setsuna did put an obstacle safely between himself and a threat. In the military, we call this "cover," and it's generally considered a good idea. I don't know what Civies are told to think, but we are taught to like it.
Disarmed Ali, yeah, I can see how his weapon, several times better simply cut through Ali's. I don't see Flag's plasma saber destroying Ali's weapon in the show, do you? Simple fact, had Ali had the same weapon who do you think would have won the battle?

Quote:
I see that you are bitching about Setsuna having a beam saber, having more than one beam saber/close range weapon, and for basically fulfilling what would have happened in any other Gundam Universe to date, such as using a shield to block torpedoes/missiles, or using a beam saber at close range, or having a skilled rival in an inferior MS who puts up a strong fight. In short, Setsuna sucks because he has the skills of a typical skills of a Gundam protagonist.
Unlike you, I'm not going to throw insults, it's beneath me. However, you don't even understand my argument. Simply put, since you want to use UC, Amuro with his outdated Re-gaz at the start of CCA mange to shot the leg off of Gyunei Guss's funnel equipt MS. There is no evidence that Setstuna would be able to engage a superior MS and win, in fact he let inferior MS's land hits on him.


Quote:
Allelujah has a biological reaction when in the presence of a single individual. At no other time does he have problems with Hallelujah, and no one could have known or predicted the effect. And the effect is preventable, hence why Soma had any coherency in this last episode.
Quote:
What happened to the almight Super computer Veda they rely on so much?

And none of which has anything to do with Allelujah's alleged over-reliance on his Gundam, and you haven't even mentioned Lockon. In your argument, you have basically accused only two of the Meisters of over-reliance on their Gundams, and one of them you accuse him of using beam sabers and acting like, GASP!, a pilot of a mobile suit.

I bow in the presence of your supperior analytical and argument skills.
I don't remember that Amuro let Char, who was piloting a similar MS grab his MS by the head and try to pull it off, do you? Its fine to use beam sabers, there is nothing wrong with using what you have, but there is something wrong on relying soley on those things instead of skill. IE Amuro, for all his Newtype powers, relies more on his skill as he does on his machine, old Rick-dias vs Titians top of the line suits and still coming out on top, or his NT abilites, Setstuna on the other hand, let the enemy get the better of him then think of a stratgey out of it, which mainly involves superior weapons on his part.


Quote:
You're joking, right? Have you even seen Gundam series beside Seed? If you want "skill," look at the aptitude of Amuro, Shiro, or Uraki early in their series. And most of your "previous Gundam Ace's so far" were damn unrealistic: Kira was an ace the moment he jumped into a MS he had never seen before, and a number of the late UC gundam pilots went from civilian to ace in a matter of days. The last "trained" gundam pilots I can remember are Kou, Shiro, and Shinn. Kou plain sucked against Gato, Shiro litterally fell on his face the first mission, and Shinn was the only one to put up a skilled fight.
Of course I have seem UC gundams, guess what? Amuro or Kamille were civilians, they were no soldiers hence why would they be excellent pilots from the start? Setsuna on the other hand was a soldier when he was little, recruite by a private military force, trained, and yet he still lack skill, whats up with that. I never claimed Shiro Amada was a good pilot, he was average at best and certainly no newtype. The thing is, Shiro, a member of EF with its vast resources can replace a lost Gundam in no time, one would think CB with its only 4 Gundams would chose skilled pilots. Same with Kou, I actually like Gato better as a pilot, but again, Kou and his MS are easily replacable by the EFSF hence EFSF have little incentive to go out of their way to get those who have a speical knack for piloting, they try but don't go out of their way for such things.




Quote:
Translation: A true ace would have used a beam saber from the get-go, and using a beam saber as second choice when there are technical limitations to extended beam-saber use in this universe is a sign of idiocy.

Seriously, almost all of your complaints were that Setsuna used a beam saber, or something as strong as one in case of the GN Blade. Do you have any idea how pathetic an argument that is?

And I hate to break it to you, but the "true aces" got into similar problems themselves. Kamille had to deal with Water-Zakus, Kamille had to obey orders to pull back when he could continue to fight from a good position, Amuro had to deal with the various mobile armors and MS that shot missiles into his shield (as has every other gundam pilot in existence), and every gundam pilot has used a plethora of weapons to attack the enemy. And even late in the series they could be surprised: well after Kamille developed as a newtype, Yazan was still thrashing him, and played as a sucker with the Hamrabi electric rope manuver. By your logic, Kamille would suck for falling for that.

Seriously, you not liking Setsuna =/= Setsuna (or most the other Meisters) sucking, especially when Setsuna pulls off what just about every other pilot went through.
Amuro using his RX-78-2 was no more superior to mobile Armors, in fact MA's in UC is almost always superior to MS's, so far it can't be said of AD. and Actually, yes Yazan in Zeta is a better pilot than Kamille, I've always like him, no NT abilites but just simply strong, when did I say that Kamille was better than Yazan? Kamille won because of the bio-sensor not because his better and I have always thought the last battle between the two to be cheap, same way as I think that most of the Gundams in 00 takes almost no damage from existing weapons to be cheap.
Setsuna suck not because the stunts he pulls them but because he pulls them on inferior enemy suits, who, if he had enough skill, should have been able to kill them IE Amuro Killed Gyunei Guss's Jag Doga also a funnel equpit suite without being gotten the better of (yes there was that ep with the kidnapped chick but it was not his fault she got caputred)
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Old 2007-12-11, 15:28   Link #299
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Kira was also a coordinator (ultmate one infact) so that if nothing else attributes to his abilites.
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Old 2007-12-11, 16:01   Link #300
JediNight
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Late thoughts on the Gundam Nadleeh:

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

=D
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