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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 54 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 54 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 26 16.05%
7 out of 10 : Good 15 9.26%
6 out of 10 : Average 6 3.70%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 0.62%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.62%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 3.09%
Voters: 162. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2007-12-12, 16:46   Link #321
Terra
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I seem to remmeber that Veda the super computer picked them, what does computer run on again? do enlighten me. oh thats right, 0 and 1's in other words, logic.
I just want to point something out here. Yes a computer runs on logic, but only the logic it's programmed with. Unless you're saying that Veda is an AI in which case the logic argument starts to fall down again. Besides, one person's view of what is logical differs from another. So it's pointless to argue about it.
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Old 2007-12-12, 16:49   Link #322
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Love this episode, my favourite one so far
Hallelujah's just awesome and who would have expected that Tieria would be such a cry baby ;D
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Old 2007-12-12, 17:24   Link #323
Archmagination2002
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About that Wang line.. I think there is more to it than the pilots are only human.

I don't think Wang realizes the reason why Veda chose this time frame for the operations. From what I have seen so far Earth is at a tipping point... they finally have the Solar Elevators built and Solar technology is starting to take off and advance rapidly. CB's technological edge against the Earth was going to start shrinking the longer they waited.. it was only a matter of time until the Solar Furnace would be discovered(I would say within 20 years tops) and the Solar Furnace is CB's biggest edge against the Earth. I think it forced Veda's hand.. it was now or never.

Now the reason for the pilots being weak(besides the RL reason that it makes for a more interesting show) part of it hinges on what Setsuna and Felt said.. Setsuna "Because I am alive!!" and Felts "My parents were Gundam Meisters and they died" I think CB has a hard time finding good pilots that would survive combat. I think Veda studied the CB Meister training and choose on several important factors: Survivability, Motivation, Loyalty, Potential and how the pilots skills mesh with the Gundam types(Its cheaper and better to match the pilots skills to the Gundam specialties) Veda didn't choose the most skilled pilots.. he choose the ones who could survive the crush of combat and learn from it to get stronger. In the long run the Meister's will be become very strong and skilled pilots due to those factors Veda used.
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Old 2007-12-12, 18:57   Link #324
Wen
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Originally Posted by Archmagination2002 View Post
About that Wang line.. I think there is more to it than the pilots are only human.

I don't think Wang realizes the reason why Veda chose this time frame for the operations. From what I have seen so far Earth is at a tipping point... they finally have the Solar Elevators built and Solar technology is starting to take off and advance rapidly. CB's technological edge against the Earth was going to start shrinking the longer they waited.. it was only a matter of time until the Solar Furnace would be discovered(I would say within 20 years tops) and the Solar Furnace is CB's biggest edge against the Earth. I think it forced Veda's hand.. it was now or never.

Now the reason for the pilots being weak(besides the RL reason that it makes for a more interesting show) part of it hinges on what Setsuna and Felt said.. Setsuna "Because I am alive!!" and Felts "My parents were Gundam Meisters and they died" I think CB has a hard time finding good pilots that would survive combat. I think Veda studied the CB Meister training and choose on several important factors: Survivability, Motivation, Loyalty, Potential and how the pilots skills mesh with the Gundam types(Its cheaper and better to match the pilots skills to the Gundam specialties) Veda didn't choose the most skilled pilots.. he choose the ones who could survive the crush of combat and learn from it to get stronger. In the long run the Meister's will be become very strong and skilled pilots due to those factors Veda used.
Interesting theory.
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Old 2007-12-12, 21:22   Link #325
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by idofgrahf View Post
you obvisouly did not even watch ep 8 did you? I distenticly remmeber that it was the Azadistan that Setsuna was fighting against and that is why he hates the Azadistan, for waging war against the Kurdish Republic. Take you anti-american propoganda elseware, this is a Gundam disscussison board.
LMMFAO You took a comparison of how silly it is to think a street militia kid would somehow become a professional Gundam Ace and turned it into me dissing America...My my my ...Additionally what does this have to do with anything when my only point is that a kid in a street army doesn't qualify for you to seriously think he should be some kind of combat professional in any definitive sense? sheeeesh...

Quote:
I seem to remmeber that Veda the super computer picked them, what does computer run on again? do enlighten me. oh thats right, 0 and 1's in other words, logic.
As others have already pointed out, you have no idea what search parameters were put into Veda before it found the Meisters, so yet again your lust for logic falls short...

Quote:
I don't seem to remmeber that Loran was ranked up there with Amuro and I have never claimed Loran to be an Ace pilot, the Turn A is simply insanely powerful, but then again, Turn A gundam is more about character than gundam fights.
Turn A never started off insanley powerful, nor was it presented as such in the start...But that's beside the point, which is, you can't judge the success of every Gundam series pilots simply by using logic or some subjective view of "pro-status"...Gundam pilots historically tend to have powers that superceed logical comparisons...Oh and BTW, in Turn A my friend, Loran was an "ace"...

Quote:
That is why I usually add "so far" in my sentences, hence SO FAR Setsuna, or most of the pilots for that matter demonstrates they are average at best in piloting.
Well then you seem to be going quite overboard in your comparisons for someone who wants to hide behind the "so far" ticker tape...In your debate with Dean The Young you seemed to be judging a less than complete Setsuna and his skills quite harshly verses a completely skilled and documented character in Heero...

Quote:
I do remmeber that most of UC tech is based on real life theory with the exception of NT technologies. Orbital elevators is unrealistic but not impossible, fusion reactors found in UC we are resarching right now, the L points really do exist, the colonies in UC are based on the O'Neill cylenders purposed by the person of said name in real life. US military and Chinese for that matter are resarching engery weapons I don't see how some of the techs are bull or impossible.
Well I was being a tad bit rhetorical (not surprised you missed that ), but my central point was that all the logic in the world, whether it be for Mobile Suits or the selection of pilots gets severly skewed because Gundam (as a franchise) mostly relies on a component of imagination that leaves pure logic in the dust...You said:

Quote:
...logic dictates that advance military hardware...are given to the best of the best.
And I'm saying the "best" in a Gundam series doesn't necessarily follow some strict or even defined training regiment to be the "best"... Sometimes they just are...And in 00 it has NOT YET BEEN DETERMINED what "special abilities or powers" the Meisters may have that lead Veda to believe they are the best devoid of your logical training (And as I've said we've seen many hinted breadcrumbs that they do posess something more)...

Honestly though the entirety of my argument can be summed up in 3 words that might make you stay away from the deep-end, and those words are:

WAIT AND SEE
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Old 2007-12-12, 22:37   Link #326
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Interestingly enough, Setsuna is doing better than Heero is come to think of it...

In the beginning, Heero already started by getting his ass kicked by a Leo despite his gundam because Zechs was simply that much better. Furthermore, he killed a shuttle of peace delegates thinking they were OZ officials, and shortly after SD'd his gundam.

Heero really did not have a spectacular record despite his gundam. Setsuna so far has been winning, although obviously because his gundam is just flat out a much better machine than any others by decades.
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Old 2007-12-13, 00:32   Link #327
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
LMMFAO You took a comparison of how silly it is to think a street militia kid would somehow become a professional Gundam Ace and turned it into me dissing America...My my my ...Additionally what does this have to do with anything when my only point is that a kid in a street army doesn't qualify for you to seriously think he should be some kind of combat professional in any definitive sense? sheeeesh...
I thought your comment is basically a little too stupid to comment on but since you insist, lets see, the kid (setsuna) obvisouly was smart enough to stay alive alot longer then most of the others. In battle one key component is called survial, if you live you gain experience ask any military personnel, there is a huge difference between those who have seen actual combat and those who have simply been trained for it, Setsuna as a kid has already seen it. However, judging by his actions, opening the cockpit in a warzone one must wonder where his survival instincts went, he was perfectly willing to dodge bullets but also willing to open his cockpit and show himself to the enemy who could have simply shot him, very smart.

Quote:
As others have already pointed out, you have no idea what search parameters were put into Veda before it found the Meisters, so yet again your lust for logic falls short...
I? Lust for logic? that's so halirious that its not even funny. What other serach parameters is there for a pilot other than get the job done, whatever that job may be? I can see how setsuna opening his cockpit will do great strides towards their objective.



Quote:
Turn A never started off insanley powerful, nor was it presented as such in the start...But that's beside the point, which is, you can't judge the success of every Gundam series pilots simply by using logic or some subjective view of "pro-status"...Gundam pilots historically tend to have powers that superceed logical comparisons...Oh and BTW, in Turn A my friend, Loran was an "ace"...
I don't judge the sucess of every Gundam pilot based soley on logic. That said, I don't remmeber Yazan having any super powers yet he was better than kamille. Kira, being a coordinator is naturally better then most in piloting MS, Heero who has trained alot is ofcourse a good pilot even without the Zero system, the people in 8th ms team had no super powers, and Char was the red comet before he awakened as a new type, Loran was certainly a normal kid, I don't see where your historically, superceed logical comparison crap comes from.

As for Turn A, as far as I know, its the only Gundam the regerates itself, flip a Wadom whose about twice its size like it was noting, take multiply hits, some times without blocking via shield or hand and the only effect was not a damaged Gundam but some what shacken Loran, has a powerout put of 27000KW compared to the RX-78's 1380 kW or F91's 4250 kW or even to the last UC Gundam Victory 2's 7510 kW, it can make itself invisable, use moonlight butterfly, (Loran didn't use it at the start but those systems were there from start to finish) so yeah it not over powered.



Quote:
Well then you seem to be going quite overboard in your comparisons for someone who wants to hide behind the "so far" ticker tape...In your debate with Dean The Young you seemed to be judging a less than complete Setsuna and his skills quite harshly verses a completely skilled and documented character in Heero...
On the contrary, I seem to remember Heero was a pretty good pilot from Ep 1 on wards, maybe you are confusing him with someone else.



Quote:
Well I was being a tad bit rhetorical (not surprised you missed that ), but my central point was that all the logic in the world, whether it be for Mobile Suits or the selection of pilots gets severly skewed because Gundam (as a franchise) mostly relies on a component of imagination that leaves pure logic in the dust"
And I answered you with sacrasm as well, I too am suprised you missed it of course, its a damn anime, however, its an anime created by humans of this era incase you haven't noticed, so there needs to be a degree of realism however big or small, the damn calender in 00 is set in AD or maybe you haven't noticed that, the countries like China or America are not imagined countries, the AEU is simply a more unified EU, its clear that the director is aming for some realism, even Evagelion uses some real Jung and Freud concepts.



Quote:
And I'm saying the "best" in a Gundam series doesn't necessarily follow some strict or even defined training regiment to be the "best"... Sometimes they just are...And in 00 it has NOT YET BEEN DETERMINED what "special abilities or powers" the Meisters may have that lead Veda to believe they are the best devoid of your logical training (And as I've said we've seen many hinted breadcrumbs that they do posess something more)...

Honestly though the entirety of my argument can be summed up in 3 words that might make you stay away from the deep-end, and those words are:

WAIT AND SEE
oh, you mean the pilots going insane is some kind of speical power? Some people have speical aptitdue for piloting, that is true, however, Amuro, Kamille, Uso, Kira, even Loran have shown significant improvements in the first 10 eps, what does Setsuna show in improving his piloting skills?
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Last edited by idofgrahf; 2007-12-13 at 00:42.
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Old 2007-12-13, 01:24   Link #328
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Originally Posted by idofgrahf
However, judging by his actions, opening the cockpit in a warzone one must wonder where his survival instincts went, he was perfectly willing to dodge bullets but also willing to open his cockpit and show himself to the enemy who could have simply shot him, very smart.
This one passage nerfs a big part of your argument...You know why you're wondering why he did this? Or where his survival instincts went? It's because being a kid soldier in the middle-east with an AK strapped on your back is not a good (or even competent) rational for judging the lack of professionalism or piloting skill set for a Gundam....

So because he SOMEHOW survived (Which really hasn't been explored much) he has good survival extincts and that SOMEHOW translates to the question of why he's a $hitty pilot in your mind? As I keep asking, are you making this $hit up? You yourself just said you don't know why his awesome "kid with an AK on his back being used by a conman" skills doesn't make him more smarter about not opening his cockpit in his fight with Ali...Don't you get it? It's because that experience as a kid had NO BEARING on what he wound up doing later on (Training wise that is)....Uh Oh there goes your whole "because he fought as a kid he should be a military professional like Heero" bullcrap...

As for the rest I'm too tired and gotta wake up for work soon, but I shall return to give you more...Perhaps by the time I return someone will have already poked more holes in the rest of your overly irrational, overly-literal arguments...
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Old 2007-12-13, 01:47   Link #329
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I expected this show to take a hefty ratings hit (1%) when the 4th season of Major starts but I didn't expect reruns of the 3rd Major season to beat it.

(11th) *4.6% (*4.1%) 12/08 (Sat) *6:00pm-*6:25pm NHK-ETV Major (Rerun)

(15th) *4.0% (*4.5%) 12/08 (Sat) *6:00pm-*6:30pm TBS Kidou Senshi Gundam 00 [Mobile Suit Gundam 00] (Kansai Region - 5.7%)
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Old 2007-12-13, 01:54   Link #330
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
I expected this show to take a hefty ratings hit (1%) when the 4th season of Major starts but I didn't expect reruns of the 3rd Major season to beat it.

(11th) *4.6% (*4.1%) 12/08 (Sat) *6:00pm-*6:25pm NHK-ETV Major (Rerun)

(15th) *4.0% (*4.5%) 12/08 (Sat) *6:00pm-*6:30pm TBS Kidou Senshi Gundam 00 [Mobile Suit Gundam 00] (Kansai Region - 5.7%)
Major is an extremely popular all ages baseball anime. Somehow I get the sense children don't really care much for the difference between reruns and new episodes as long as it's one of their favourite shows. I know I didn't when I was a kid.

The way I see it, popular kids shows always score high in the ratings when it comes to anime. Pocket Monsters has been using the same plot formula for ages and is still in the top ten ratings. It's not something I'm worried about in the slightest.

What's the bracketed number by the way? Not the Kansai one, the one beside the first percentage.
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Old 2007-12-13, 01:56   Link #331
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99% sure that is the prior weeks rating.
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Old 2007-12-13, 02:07   Link #332
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It's amazing how popular Major is. I mean it's great for what it is, but NATIONALLY gripping in that way? Rerun getting top billing and edging close to Detective Conan? That's pretty crazy.

Also, I hear Moyashimon is way up there too, which I never expected since I would think a GUNDAM show would have more national exposure and hype. I just guess people really don't watch anime as much as people think they do.
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Old 2007-12-13, 02:14   Link #333
Westlo
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Moyashimon does air in the Noitamina block, I'll quote Andrew C on what the Noitamina block is about.

Quote:
NoitaminA appears to be a Fuji Terebi late night slot that's had a pretty impressive run of shows there.Apparently the idea is that they do shows less geared towards anime fans and more towards a general audience, that anyone can enjoy, that make you want to see what happens next, and that get people talking about them (sort of a generic mission statement, really.)

Hachimitsu and Clover
Paradise Kiss
Ayakashi
Juohsei
Hachimitsu and Clover (again? Second season?)
Hataraki Man
Nodame Cantalibre
Mononoke
and now Moyashimon.
Still even for the Noitamina block I think Moyashimon ratings are outstanding, airs on Friday at 12:45am-1:15am and get ratings of *4.9% this week (which placed it in the top 10) and (*4.4%) last week which are very impressive.

I'm not to sure but I think it might be the highest rated Noitamina show (I can't remember Mononoke getting high 4s except maybe the last episode). I asked that question in the Anime Ratings thread which I guess is where we should continue this discussion since this is about Gundam 00 Episode 10 after all.
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Old 2007-12-13, 02:24   Link #334
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That's great news, since not too many great shows gets the viewership they so deserve (I think Minami-ke's top rating was around 1 million viewers at its peak. Compare that to Precure 5 usually hovering at or above 4 million, easily).

Nice to hear Hataraki Man was in the mix since it was such an underappreciated show otherwise.

I just wish more shows get the proper attention so the obscure, but great shows can get more talks of sequels.
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Old 2007-12-13, 07:03   Link #335
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Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
99% sure that is the prior weeks rating.
Yeah, 4.5 is for last week. 4.0 is for Ep 10. Its the lowest rating for this show so far...

This was true for GSD too, but for some reason, action-packed episodes always seem to get a corresponding slump in ratings... People get bored by the robots and want to watch a baseball anime instead?
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Old 2007-12-13, 07:55   Link #336
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Or, you know.... Buzzer Beater. I heard Buzzer Beater once got around 4.5 million. Pretty crazy since most western viewers seems to hate Buzzer Beater.

Also, I don't think viewership rises steadily really. It just bobs up and down little by little. The best example is something like Pretty Cure which always hovers around the 4 million mark and seems to almost randomly curve up and down. Usually hovering back up by finale and in the middle. Seems the same for Gundam shows.
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Old 2007-12-13, 13:36   Link #337
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
This one passage nerfs a big part of your argument...You know why you're wondering why he did this? Or where his survival instincts went? It's because being a kid soldier in the middle-east with an AK strapped on your back is not a good (or even competent) rational for judging the lack of professionalism or piloting skill set for a Gundam....

So because he SOMEHOW survived (Which really hasn't been explored much) he has good survival extincts and that SOMEHOW translates to the question of why he's a $hitty pilot in your mind? As I keep asking, are you making this $hit up? You yourself just said you don't know why his awesome "kid with an AK on his back being used by a conman" skills doesn't make him more smarter about not opening his cockpit in his fight with Ali...Don't you get it? It's because that experience as a kid had NO BEARING on what he wound up doing later on (Training wise that is)....Uh Oh there goes your whole "because he fought as a kid he should be a military professional like Heero" bullcrap...

As for the rest I'm too tired and gotta wake up for work soon, but I shall return to give you more...Perhaps by the time I return someone will have already poked more holes in the rest of your overly irrational, overly-literal arguments...
I'm beginning to wonder if I should even bother to answer you post which is raiden with ad hominem arguments or not. But I'll amuse you one last time.

Everything we do affects in our past affects who and what we are today, thats the basics of physciology, apply it to some one who has been shot at numberous times (Setsuna) and his instinctis in battle would be to doge not the satnd still, do you stand there and talk to a person who is trying to kill you?
He also manged to get grabed by the head, hit by a damn MA thats on a ship (it never seemed to have occured to him that the ship might have something in it?), on the losing side of the duel against Ali, and get suprised by a flag. Yes Amuro suffered the same but I don't remmeber Setsuna's oppoenet ever sinking six battleships in one sortie either.

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Originally Posted by SuperKnuckles View Post
Or, you know.... Buzzer Beater. I heard Buzzer Beater once got around 4.5 million. Pretty crazy since most western viewers seems to hate Buzzer Beater.

Also, I don't think viewership rises steadily really. It just bobs up and down little by little. The best example is something like Pretty Cure which always hovers around the 4 million mark and seems to almost randomly curve up and down. Usually hovering back up by finale and in the middle. Seems the same for Gundam shows.

Maybe it has something to do with the season, I know Japan also celebrate Christmas as a kind of couples holiday so people might be doing other things besides watching the show. That and new years celebration, cleaning, sales etc are coming up so people are probably busy.


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2006-2007---> Kira (Death note) and Lelouch (Code geass)
2007-2008---> Gundam meisters (00)

All main characters... villains? >_<
There is nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so, I wounder if Kira from Death note would be considered a Villain had he won at the end.
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Old 2007-12-13, 18:26   Link #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idofgrahf
Everything we do affects in our past affects who and what we are today, thats the basics of physciology, apply it to some one who has been shot at numberous times (Setsuna) and his instinctis in battle would be to doge not the satnd still, do you stand there and talk to a person who is trying to kill you?
Dude, every human being is different...For every militia kid who grows up and becomes a professional mercenary or trained assassin, there's one who grows up to be a grocery store clerk, or one that has nightmares every-night or a psychological breakdown because of what they experienced...Either you're really arrogant or really aloof to think basic psychology has a finite path where every action a person takes from kid-to-adult can be easily answered based on pure logic (with the lack of common sense)...

Sheeesh man, do read what you write...
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Old 2007-12-13, 21:52   Link #339
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
Dude, every human being is different...For every militia kid who grows up and becomes a professional mercenary or trained assassin, there's one who grows up to be a grocery store clerk, or one that has nightmares every-night or a psychological breakdown because of what they experienced...Either you're really arrogant or really aloof to think basic psychology has a finite path where every action a person takes from kid-to-adult can be easily answered based on pure logic (with the lack of common sense)...

Sheeesh man, do read what you write...
You don't even need basic physciology to know when something is coming at you or is about to come at you, you evade. Its not even physcology or logic, its damn reflex I would assume you know the most basic human condition, survival instinct. Of course with TRAINING the survival instinct can be overcomed, those who throw themselves at the machine gun, kamakazi pilots etc however, I don't think Setsuna was trained to open cockpits to his enemies. the question is do YOU read what you write.
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Old 2007-12-14, 01:03   Link #340
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the whole Setsuna opening his cockpit in battle .... last i recall the enemy also open his cockpit too soo umm does it make him a crappy pilot also
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