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Old 2008-10-16, 09:52   Link #281
Slick_rick
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I don't think Nena has much of a chance. In the first season's 1st OP, Setsuna turns Marina into Exia and in this seasons he turns into 00. So we can see, even though there is some weird and kinky stuff going on in this guy head, Setsuna X Marina is practically canon.

Now I just wonder what kind of relationship ending they will get. I hope something happy and nothing tragic. Maybe a Heero x Relena sort of ending. Their a lot of parallels between the two relationships. Though I think Setsuna needs to work on his women skills first. Heero knew how to win a woman's heart. Though Setsuna did a decent job with Marina in their first encounter, he still has a lot to learn from the master as we can see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i7nL51yFYY
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Old 2008-10-16, 09:56   Link #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I don't think Nena has much of a chance. In the first season's 1st OP, Setsuna turns Marina into Exia and in this seasons he turns into 00. So we can see, even though there is some weird and kinky stuff going on in this guy head, Setsuna X Marina is practically canon.

Now I just wonder what kind of relationship ending they will get. I hope something happy and nothing tragic. Maybe a Heero x Relena sort of ending. Their a lot of parallels between the two relationships. Though I think Setsuna needs to work on his women skills first. Heero knew how to win a woman's heart. Though Setsuna did a decent job with Marina in their first encounter, he still has a lot to learn from the master as we can see here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i7nL51yFYY
Well ofcourse Nena has no chance.

However, we should note that in both the first season's first OP and the second season's first OP, Setsuna is making futile attempts to reach for Marina, so I'm fairly certain that whatever ending they have planned for the Setsuna x Marina relationship... isn't at all happy.
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Old 2008-10-16, 10:04   Link #283
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Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
Well ofcourse Nena has no chance.

However, we should note that in both the first season's first OP and the second season's first OP, Setsuna is making futile attempts to reach for Marina, so I'm fairly certain that whatever ending they have planned for the Setsuna x Marina relationship... isn't at all happy.
Maybe what it symbolizes is them trying to understand the each other. Which they have so far been unable to but still keep trying to. Maybe in the next OP we will see something symbolizing them finally coming to an understanding. I honestly don't think any of OP so far point to a bad ending for either. Their relationship so far hasn't based on romance but based on understanding the other.
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Old 2008-10-16, 10:58   Link #284
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I think that for the fist part of season 2 the relation setsuxmarina will lead nowhere to love, cause there is so much fights to begin with. You need to be together to be accomplish the "love"(so in the end?). The rescue alle+marina may turns to be only introducing new difficulty to have time to spend together. More interesting about the meeting alle-soma cause the development for this couple is going drama for sure.

For the opening , setsu can't reach marina hand cause he has to fight before be with her ( a new direction in his life?)...that is what it means.
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Old 2008-10-16, 11:31   Link #285
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Julao View Post
Spoiler for Here you go:


maybe that's his gundam girlfriend.... Well, he is gundam I suppose so why not.
It's the pilot of the 0 gundam.

That entire sequence had the various meisters confronting their doubles (Allelujah and Soma, Tieria and Regene, Lockon and someone behind curtains, Saji and Louise) And Setsuna's double when it comes to the gundam is of course the original gundam that set him on this path.
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Old 2008-10-16, 12:12   Link #286
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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
It's the pilot of the 0 gundam.

That entire sequence had the various meisters confronting their doubles (Allelujah and Soma, Tieria and Regene, Lockon and someone behind curtains, Saji and Louise) And Setsuna's double when it comes to the gundam is of course the original gundam that set him on this path.
That's speculation at this point, not fact, unless you have an official source to back you up. There's been no indication at this point in the series that Setsuna has ever met the pilot of the 0 gundam: in fact, the fact that there is a pilot is largely ignored, as the machine is treated as if it were an individual.

Come to it, I'm not sure it's ever been said who was the pilot of the 0 gundam, even in the side material.
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Old 2008-10-16, 12:14   Link #287
vspirit
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Spoiler for Here you go:
If that's a girl, she's one without a chest...and a rather manly crotch.
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Old 2008-10-16, 12:55   Link #288
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Thanks! +rep. I always thought that was Tieria standing there o.o; but IMO it doesn't look anything like Nena's throne's foot.. wasn't it red and bulky? I always thought it was the gundam that saved him, since it's the same colour as it (and when you watch the OP for S2, you can see it's a bit skinnier) :S
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Old 2008-10-16, 12:56   Link #289
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If that's a girl, she's one without a chest...and a rather manly crotch.
They are talking about the legs, not Setsuna
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Old 2008-10-16, 13:19   Link #290
ashlay
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Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young View Post
That's speculation at this point, not fact, unless you have an official source to back you up. There's been no indication at this point in the series that Setsuna has ever met the pilot of the 0 gundam: in fact, the fact that there is a pilot is largely ignored, as the machine is treated as if it were an individual.

Come to it, I'm not sure it's ever been said who was the pilot of the 0 gundam, even in the side material.
none of those shots are going to happen in the show, they're all symbolic. (Soma and Al on a pool of water while A-Laws' MS pass overhead should make that relatively clear. Though all the others have surreal elements to them as well if you're not happy with just that. )

Which is why I say it's the 0 Gundam pilot. The shots are all about themes and symbols. Within the context of the other meister's shots, it's a reasonable to say Setsuna's being pictured with a major foil. And seeing as how there's a gundam's hand and a person in what seem like a CB-affiliated pilot suit in the shot, it's also reasonable to say it's a major foil related to the gundams. But when it comes to representations of wanting to end war/the gundams, Setsuna's double is the 0 gundam. It's always the unit he compares himself to, not Nena or the thrones or anyone else. So the person in the pilot suit is someone related to the 0 gundam, thus, the 0 gundam's pilot. So of course none of that image has or will ever happen in the show/timeline, but it's the 0 gundam's pilot because it's an image about Setsuna confronting a double in relation to gundams.


And the novel adaptations have heavily implied that Ribbons was the pilot of the 0 Gundam. Hardly confirmation for the anime, but something to think about.
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Old 2008-10-16, 13:21   Link #291
vspirit
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Originally Posted by Nourredine View Post
They are talking about the legs, not Setsuna
*squints* ...but I don't see any others legs in that picture besides the ones attached to the manly crotch...*scratches head*

EDIT: ...wait. Are you talking about those couple of blurred thingies in the foreground? Huh. Thought they're part of the gundam at first. ^^;
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Old 2008-10-16, 13:42   Link #292
Kaze
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*squints* ...but I don't see any others legs in that picture besides the ones attached to the manly crotch...*scratches head*

EDIT: ...wait. Are you talking about those couple of blurred thingies in the foreground? Huh. Thought they're part of the gundam at first. ^^;
Yeah, the blurred thingies in the foreground
Did you just spend 5 minutes staring at Setsuna's crotch?
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Old 2008-10-16, 14:03   Link #293
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And the novel adaptations have heavily implied that Ribbons was the pilot of the 0 Gundam. Hardly confirmation for the anime, but something to think about.
So it could be Ribbons that stands before Setsuna...? Never thought about that, you could be right.
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Old 2008-10-16, 14:59   Link #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julao View Post
Spoiler for Here you go:



maybe that's his gundam girlfriend.... Well, he is gundam I suppose so why not.
that's Tieria
Setsuna's jacket is blue
this one is purple like Tieria's


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Old 2008-10-16, 15:09   Link #295
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I agree. But for people who want to think its Setsuna...they will say that its blue.
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Old 2008-10-16, 15:22   Link #296
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I still think that is Setsuna because you see him walk and then it's shifts to this shot, so it is only logical to think that is him
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Old 2008-10-16, 15:35   Link #297
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Originally Posted by ashlay View Post
none of those shots are going to happen in the show, they're all symbolic. (Soma and Al on a pool of water while A-Laws' MS pass overhead should make that relatively clear. Though all the others have surreal elements to them as well if you're not happy with just that. )

Which is why I say it's the 0 Gundam pilot.
It's a perfectly good theory, and you can argue it. But it isn't a fact unless it can be confirmed, which is the only point I'm "not happy with." Saying "it is" is different than "it could be." One admits the possiblity of being mistaken, for one thing.
Quote:
The shots are all about themes and symbols. Within the context of the other meister's shots, it's a reasonable to say Setsuna's being pictured with a major foil.
The pilot of the 0 isn't a foil for Setsuna. In literature and drama, a foil is a character who highlights the traits and characteristics of another by contrast. Lelouch and Suzaku from Code Geass are foils in their similar goals via different means. Allelujah and Hallelujah were foils to eachother.

The pilot of 0, who has no characterization whatsoever and no indication of being a contrast to Setsuna, is not a foil. Setsuna's ideal of the 0 gundam may be a foil in relation to his own failings, but that has nothing to do with the pilot of the 0 if they never met. Which there is no indication that they ever have.
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And seeing as how there's a gundam's hand and a person in what seem like a CB-affiliated pilot suit in the shot, it's also reasonable to say it's a major foil related to the gundams. But when it comes to representations of wanting to end war/the gundams, Setsuna's double is the 0 gundam. It's always the unit he compares himself to, not Nena or the thrones or anyone else. So the person in the pilot suit is someone related to the 0 gundam, thus, the 0 gundam's pilot. So of course none of that image has or will ever happen in the show/timeline, but it's the 0 gundam's pilot because it's an image about Setsuna confronting a double in relation to gundams.
Or it could be someone else entirely for an entirely different line of thought that the director thought of. Just because A could be B does not mean A IS B.

Take the words I bolded. You know what they are? Those are non-concrete adjectives and assumptions. Consider these individual loopholes in your argument of certainty. (Note: these are not sequential, but rather picks at individual parts.)

-Someone who "seems" to be CB affiliated may not be. Everyone thought the Thrones were true Meisters but they were only fakes.

-Saying that is "reasonable" is not the same as a true fact, but rather a leap of intellectual faith. If you want to see how ludicrous a perfectly reasonable argument is, go read Phaedo: Socratese is hilarious in his proofs that all learning is the immortal soul's recollection. And again, things that seemed reasonable have already proven false in 00: the Thrones being a legitimate part of CB, the notion that CB was involved in Neena's attack on Spain, that Soma would be an advantage against Hallelujah (when all she normally did was release Hallelujah), and many more. Heck, Celestial Being has regularly worked against what seemed reasonable, even going so far as to invent a mobile suit who's tagline is that it defies all reason.

-"Someone" related to the 0 gundam does not equal "pilot." Aeolia is related to the 0 Gundam, Setsuna himself is related to the 0 gundam, many unnamed Celestial Being mechanics are related to the 0 gundam, just as the pilot of the 0 gundam is related to the 0 Gundam. Even if, if, all your reasonings up to this point are correct, you still have to prove that it's the pilot himself, as opposed to some guy or girl in a normal suit.

-"a double" is not a specific person, especially when Setsuna already has two counter-parts/foils: Graham and Ali.



Your idea can be correct, but it is far from a certainty. For all the metaphors that get thrown around, it could be Setsuna's visual personification of Gundam for all we know at the moment, and not even anyone real. Or it could be someone we haven't been introduced to yet, or another character we know but can't tell the identity of, or...

Do you see? I'm not trying to say it can't be, but trying to emphasize that it could be something else. There's more than enough wiggle room, both in the brief time frame it's on the screen and in your own argument, to argue that it could be someone else.
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Old 2008-10-16, 16:04   Link #298
ashlay
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^I thought we were are more or less assuming what we said was personal opinion/speculation, especially with something as symbolic/lacking plot as the ending shots.

but alright, I'll be more careful to put "I think" in my sentences from now on. I got hung up on the whole "Setsuna's never actually met the 0 gundam pilot in the story" thing.
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Old 2008-10-16, 20:37   Link #299
Tokkan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bran View Post
that's Tieria
Setsuna's jacket is blue
this one is purple like Tieria's
That makes no logical sense because Tieria's already in another shot in the montage.
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Old 2008-10-16, 22:27   Link #300
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Hopefully it's Fon Spaak.
Is it confirmed Ribbons is pilot of 0 gundam?
I was hoping for someone else than Ribbons.
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