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Old 2007-12-11, 23:23   Link #1
Shii
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Join Date: Feb 2003
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I've written up a little thing about fansubbing

http://shii.org/knows/Fansubbing

I'd like links to some of the VHS-era essays I've seen in the past, if anyone can find them. I know there are millions of anime bloggers out there (I don't read any of them) so if anyone else has written up something let me know about that. I'd also like to know if you think I'm right or wrong, but please, do not write multipage essays-- this is a wiki of my personal experience and I'm not going to incorporate your opinion into it. I encourage you to start your own wiki.
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Old 2007-12-12, 00:03   Link #2
edogawaconan
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also need more essays for early digisubbing up to 2005...
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Old 2007-12-12, 01:21   Link #3
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edogawaconan View Post
also need more essays for early digisubbing up to 2005...
I found a great essay by a LivE-EviL member while looking for screencaps of the #Anime-Fansubs 320x240 digisub of Love Hina (couldn't find any... I don't think they exist anymore)

http://forum.live-evil.org/index.php/topic,1040.0.html

edit: Click this video and set it to "original size", it's like we're back in 2001 and everything is exciting

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13657777320282
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Last edited by Shii; 2007-12-12 at 03:29.
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Old 2007-12-12, 04:26   Link #4
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Talking about the year 1997 with "ancient past/olden days" vibes makes me feel old ...
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Old 2007-12-12, 08:34   Link #5
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I guess you could call the VHS era my glory days.

I remember drawing numbers from a hat to see who got first pick on which VHS tape to rent that week from the anime club
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Old 2007-12-12, 09:19   Link #6
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lulz, i got quoted.
dunno if Shii agreed with me or not tho ;p
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Old 2007-12-12, 09:47   Link #7
Grv
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Well, I've had a read of the article, not entirely sure I agree with all of it, but reading it has raised a few questions in my mind whilst discussing this with others.

Who do you believe to have been the first digisubbers?

We could take this as a literal who made the first one ever, but who was the first person or group to bring digisubbing to the masses? For the purposes of this question let's say via bittorrent.

What do people think? I myself am relatively new to the scene with my 2 years of experience so I missed out on all the fun back in 2003 it would seem.

In terms of the question I've posed, BT was released in Summer 2001, so perhaps adoption would have take around 6 months or so?
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Old 2007-12-12, 15:50   Link #8
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScR3WiEuS View Post
lulz, i got quoted.
dunno if Shii agreed with me or not tho ;p
I think you are a very prideful person... appreciate that judgement however you want

Quote:
We could take this as a literal who made the first one ever, but who was the first person or group to bring digisubbing to the masses? For the purposes of this question let's say via bittorrent.
BT was initially adopted only by the people who were already scouring all the Internet for fansubs. You can't really pinpoint BT as the day when fansubbing became public; it was a very slow process and that's why I wrote this article expecting that many people didn't know what it was like early on. After BT, of course, news spread by word of mouth and demand increased quickly, but the groups releasing on BT were many of the same groups releasing by IRC.

Before digisubbing, even, there were probably people transcoding VHS tapes to early video formats such as Cinepak.
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Old 2007-12-12, 16:32   Link #9
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I couldn't decide if I should write a badreally dumb troll about that loli incident ages ago, ask you about stairs or talk about internet spaceships, so I just decided to post and say hi.

Hi Shii, nice essay.

I had to lol about the respect of authors part though but that's just me.



Edit: I can't decide if this is a brilliant troll, a brilliant fakepost, or just brilliant (in the sense that it's brilliantly pessimistic) in general. Nice work.
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Old 2007-12-13, 06:11   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
I found a great essay by a LivE-EviL member while looking for screencaps of the #Anime-Fansubs 320x240 digisub of Love Hina (couldn't find any... I don't think they exist anymore)

http://forum.live-evil.org/index.php/topic,1040.0.html

edit: Click this video and set it to "original size", it's like we're back in 2001 and everything is exciting

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...13657777320282
I've read that a long time ago
still need more essays/history of early digisub teams...
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Old 2007-12-13, 09:34   Link #11
getfresh
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The Fansubber and Distro List

U.S. Fansubbers

3NA
AnimeBall
Anime Net
Anime West
AUS Fansubs
Baka Anime
Black Box Productions
Central Anime
Club A-Type
C-Ko's Duplication Service
Deimoz Project
Dirty Samurai Productions
Faceless Minions
Fair Use Productions
fReAKY wEaSeL fAnSuBs
Gojira Anime
JDR Productions
Jikan Anime
Kodocha Anime
Lupin Gang Anime
Mokkori Anime
Mayonaka Anime
MDC Heavy Industries
Megami Anime
NEKO-SAMA Productions
Nexus Studio
Newtype Animation
Nakimori Anime
noAnime
Nora Inu "G"
Omake Anime
Oukami Studios
Owaranai Anime
Pakman Productions
Psycho KORps
Reality/Yagami Studios
Red Hat Anime
Rushmore Academy Fansubs
Sailor Death Productions
Saint Anime
Saiya-jin Productions
Sekihou Gumi
Shinsen Gumi
SilverWynd Productions
Sosamo Senpai Distribution
Stray Children Anime
Team Abcb
Techno-Girls
Temple of Yokyun
Tofusensei Anime
Ureshi Anime
Wasabi Anime
White Cross

U.S. Distributors
168 Animation
Akatenshi Fansubs
Akito's Fansub Distro
Andrea's Anime Akabeko
Angel Distribution
Angel Nest Fansubs
Anime By Moonlight
Anime Cottage Distribution Service
Anime-R-Us
Aoshi's Relam
Anything-Goes Anime Exchange
Baka's Paradise
Berserkers Anime
Capsule Corp. Trading Post
Celestial Fansubs
Chad's Fansub Distro
Crystal Palace Fansub Distribution
CsK's Fansub Distribution Center
DKP Distribution
East Coast Anime
Fansub Center
Fansub-o-Rama
Fansub Turnpike
Glass Rose Distro
Guymelf's Anime
Hand Me Down Anime
Hazumi Anime
Hitomi's Fansubs
J & A Anime
Jinzoningen
JMD Distribution
Joe's Anime Tape Distribution
Ken's TechnoGirls Boutique
Last Blade Distributors
Matrix Anime
Mentalcase's Fansubs
MeteorSmash fansubs
Miki's Anime Tape Service
Misao-chan's Fansubs
New York Anime Exchange
Nopnilia's Fansub List
Odds and Ends Distribution
Ookii Anime
Oshiko Anime
Otaku Anime Center
Otaku Anime Fansubs
Phoenix Flame Anime
Prodigy Animation
Red XIII's Fansub Distro
Ron's Fansub Trading Post
Sakaba Anime
Saiyaman's Fansub Trader
SPD Fansubs
Tiara's Fansubs
Totomo Anime
Top Anime Distro
Triple Threat Fansubs
Trunks866's Fansubs
Tsunami's Fansubs
Vigilante's Anime Annex
Wasabi Distro
Zantetsu Anime

Canadian Fansubbers
Prices based on shipping to U.S.
Fuzzy Productions
G.M. Anime
Murasaki Hasu Jin'ei
VKLL's Fansubs

Canadian Distributors
Prices based on shipping to U.S.
Aka Karasu Anime
AniFan Distribution
Anime Addicts Fansub Distribution
Anime Lair
Dragon's Lair
Madoka No Pick
Veritech's Anime Fansuburbia


Outside of North America

Fansubbers
Cathedral Animation
Jimaku Animation
Pinoitto Anime

Distributors
Group Genkidama
Hoshi Anime
Seishi Anime

This is the old tape subber group/distro list off fansub.net. It may help in tracking down info on the groups.



shii, if you want more in depth information just contact me on irc and I'll hook up up with some of the older resources I have.

Last edited by getfresh; 2007-12-13 at 10:09.
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Old 2007-12-13, 10:58   Link #12
Access
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
I'd like links to some of the VHS-era essays I've seen in the past, if anyone can find them. I know there are millions of anime bloggers out there (I don't read any of them) so if anyone else has written up something let me know about that. I'd also like to know if you think I'm right or wrong, but
http://forum.live-evil.org/index.php....html#msg16334

Still trying to hunt down "Tomodachi's Anime Goodbye". It's referenced in here:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/...209&highlight= (post from cookie, about halfway down the page)
"Read Tomodachi Anime's Goodbye for yet another view of the "old" guard of fansubbers, and why they've left the scene."
but that link is down. Anyone archive that one?

Unfortunately most of the longer essays were done by people as they were leaving. But there's still some historical data in there, if you can hunt it down. People, groups, sometimes opinions, etc.
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Old 2007-12-13, 14:51   Link #13
ScR3WiEuS
My E-Penis > Your E-Penis
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Age: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shii View Post
I think you are a very prideful person... appreciate that judgement however you want
hahahah, that's great.
whether that's a bad thing or a good thing, i'll leave up to the readers.
mind you that it's true tho.
not that i take fansubbing serious at all.
recently i've had some leechers lecture me on how we should be thankful to them, because without them fansubbers would be nothing, etc.
i think his conclusion was something like "stfu and do your work without complaining cuz you only exist because of me"
pretty funny stuff.

but btw, please cap the "W" in my nick, it's wrong ;-;

for the rest, it's a pretty interesting essay, but it needs some serious work.
you need to clearly distinguish 2 perspectives: leecher and fansubber.
you used names like "Golden Era" etc, but that really depends from what perspective you're writing this.
you also attributed way too much importance to Anime-Junkies and their influence on the fansubbing scene.
sure they were a big influence in some ways, but the reason the scene is as it is now, is mainly because of the popularization of anime, etc. (natural evolution of things)

cheers
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Old 2007-12-13, 16:53   Link #14
getfresh
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shii, don't pay screw any mind. No one else does.

I myself agree in some ways with your labeling that period as "the golden age". As far as innovation and setting the standards that are still in place today, that was the time it happened. Everything since has just been modification of those standards. What really spurred on the "golden age" if you want a first hand opinion was the group boom. During the first and second generations of digisubbers i.e. 1st, e-f, a-fansubs, a-factory, a-party, HQA(the original group), bakamx, etc... and 2nd a-e, a-fury, a-network, a-keep, chitzo, choco, etc.. there was minor innovation, but fansubbing was still a pretty closed forum.

With the introduction of bittorrent the main body of the internet had easy access beyond programs like kazaa. Xvid's introduction removed the "dark art" which was SBC encoding and replaced it with much more user friendly method. The beginning of modern typesetting brought competing to a whole new level (good or bad). And people who were from the beginning groups were experienced enough to properly compose guides that allowed newcomers to learn fansubbing rather easily. The dramatic change in the availability of raws contributed to by things like leet-raws and the onset of "raw hunters/traders" had a great impact. It was also at this time that "freelancers" or "group whores" started becoming a common sight.

A-J was an influence as far as creating the "assembly line" type group, but many other things were going on at the time. Alot more important than A-J.
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Old 2007-12-13, 17:44   Link #15
ScR3WiEuS
My E-Penis > Your E-Penis
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Age: 29
you're never this mean to me in bed :'(

but yeah, what getfresh said.
the only thing i really criticised was the huge importance you seem to attribute to A-J

getfag, one thing i don't understand tho
you agree with him that this current period is the "Golden Age," but isn't that really just for the leechers.
if i remember correctly, you and a bunch of other older fansubbers retired because fansubbing just isn't as fun as it
was before. a feeling i agree with (and many other subbers i discussed this with too), even tho i still enjoy fansubbing.
that's what i really meant with distinguishing 2 perspectives. leechers might have a vast amount of shows and formats available
to them, in a fairly little amount of time, but at the same time, there's considerably less respect for the fansubbers.
while i don't fansub just to gain respect amongst the leechers, it's kinda annoying when they come and flame you for not releasing PS3 compatible files,
or within 24 hours of broadcast, or whatever other retarded reason. like i said, most leechers are way too spoiled nowadays, and presume that
fansubbers owe it to them to fansub. or rather, that we shouldn't fansub for our own sake, but for theirs.
they reason that if you won't do it, someone else will, and well, most people don't know enough about the actual quality of a fansubs to actually
care.
even tho i might sound bitter, i'm really not, i still enjoy fansubbing. but i miss the times when flaming was the privilege of the fansubbers, not of the leechers.
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Old 2007-12-13, 18:02   Link #16
getfresh
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Oh... he was saying this era is the golden era... I misread what you were rambling about screw, and thought that you said he said that the A-J time period was. I retract then. Yeah this era is not the "golden era". The community is kinda half alive and 80% lurker mode. Back in 2003 fansubbers had a constant chat involving pretty much everyone, and the channels all had fans chatting 90% of the time. Now its kinda like everyone is just subbing still out of habit and the culture is dead.

And no matter what ppl say, theres just as much group flaming and ego subbing now as there ever was. Just nowadays the scene is full of emo-subbers who are concerned with their outward appearance to the rest of the community that they talk shit on the sly and wear a mask of righteousness on the outside...
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Old 2007-12-13, 18:14   Link #17
ScR3WiEuS
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Age: 29
yup yup, that's right.
i don't mind flaming at all, but don't act all selfrighteous.
flaming between groups seems to have become a taboo mainly in the leechers' eyes,
but leechers seem to think it's fine if they flame groups, heh. it's funny really.
it's like when one of the menclave members posted something in his blog about how nyoron was making up translations, with proper examples and all, but in the end
it was menclave that got flamed the most for being trolls heh.

anyhow, flaming is cool, as long as it doesn't get political. makes eveyrthing more fun, and it
provides good chatting material in the oh-so-dead channels nowadays:x
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Old 2007-12-13, 19:40   Link #18
Shii
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
And no matter what ppl say, theres just as much group flaming and ego subbing now as there ever was. Just nowadays the scene is full of emo-subbers who are concerned with their outward appearance to the rest of the community that they talk shit on the sly and wear a mask of righteousness on the outside...
I don't really see it... then again, I don't watch much anime, and I only ever hear the chatter on my local IRC channels. It seems like things are pretty good right now. I was expecting some major shit for releasing another group's translation-- a major "scene" no-no for other kinds of filesharing-- and instead they just had a laugh about it and edited the topic of their channel. From the beginning up until 2004, there would always be battles of epic proportions between the major groups, and whenever someone from our channel took fansubbing lightly they would get chased down and yelled at. I see the "silence" of the community as a sign of peace.
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Old 2007-12-13, 20:15   Link #19
ScR3WiEuS
My E-Penis > Your E-Penis
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Age: 29
what group your referring to (about the stolen script)?

"I see the "silence" of the community as a sign of peace."
i rather see it as a lack of interest or involvement.
and don't be fooled, in private staff channels, flaming goes on, harder than ever.
since i pretty much get along with most fansubbers i know, i get some inside information on certain
groups and their reactions and thoughts, and it's still pretty hateful
there's still some people who won't trust me or even just hate me because i get along with less popular people.
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Old 2007-12-13, 21:45   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by getfresh View Post
then. Yeah this era is not the "golden era". The community is kinda half alive and 80% lurker mode. Back in 2003 fansubbers had a constant chat involving pretty much everyone, and the channels all had fans chatting 90% of the time. Now its kinda like everyone is just subbing still out of habit and the culture is dead.

And no matter what ppl say, theres just as much group flaming and ego subbing now as there ever was. Just nowadays the scene is full of emo-subbers who are concerned with their outward appearance to the rest of the community that they talk shit on the sly and wear a mask of righteousness on the outside...
Does it matter that the chatter has died down and however you define 'culture' is dead to you? This is hardly what should be used to define what is a 'golden era'. One can make great achievements in times of relative silence, and one can accomplish absolutely nothing in times of heavy chatter and great 'cultural' exercises. You cannot measure the relative accomplishments of fansubbers in this way.

As for ego-subbing, group flaming, other drama, today it can be safely ignored and passed over. Before BT you had to protect your public channel, your best/exclusive distro, your bots, etc. Inevitably these things would become the targets of rivals or even enemies. Pre-ETG was the worst in this respect. But since the move to ETG, most groups are on some kind of stable service, and now BT replaces IRC as the primary means of distro.

Ultimately people can be motivated to fansub for any number of reasons, and the reasons really do not matter as long as they can do the job well. You may not agree with someone else's reasons, but why not benefit from it nonetheless.
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