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Old 2007-12-26, 01:14   Link #81
ironbomb
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hmm..soo tired, anyways....The thread name doesnt matter, as long as you get what you want to disucuss/state out...If an anime ended, you shouldnt even need spoiler tags. Forums meant to discuss the events that took place in the anime...if your looking for recommendations/reviews, thats not here either, try other sites -_-...anyways yea.

lol..I dont think i understood what I wrote earlier lol.

The biggest reason why I felt that he deserved what he got, him feeling everything was OK, what he has done so far wasnt his fault and nothing was wrong about it. Not once did he regret or thought about anyone but himself.
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Old 2007-12-26, 01:43   Link #82
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Actually, I'm not sure, but I think those titles are even more spoiler-ish. The current title asks "Does he deserve to die?" but doesn't specify what happened in the ending -- it's asking a generic question irregardless of what the anime had to say about it. If you didn't watch the show and, by some miracle, still haven't been spoiled as to how it ended, you wouldn't necessarily know that he did die. You might just think that some people think he deserves it (and that comes up fairly often in shows in this genre, which is why this show "went there" in the first place). Either of the did questions you proposed are begging the question, because they give away that something bad happened to him even if they don't spell out what it is. So I think someone might be even more likely to spoil themselves if they read a title like "Did he get what he deserved" than if they read the title as is. If you really want something more generic, perhaps it would have been better as "Is Makoto's behaviour justifiable?", but that would have totally changed this thread (maybe for the better, but still...)

In any event, that's just my own personal opinion -- it is not "The Opinion Of The Mods".
relentlessflame pretty much described the thought process that I put into crafting the title for this thread. He even covered the angle of discussing Makoto's behavior instead of his penalty, but that wouldn't have worked with the posts that I moved from the general discussion thread. It was clear people wanted to discuss the penalty, so I was willing to go with that.

He only missed one consideration that was on my mind: The difference between "Does Makoto deserve to die" and "Did Makoto deserve to die." The latter one would have been a spoiler by saying that it happened whereas the former question could be asked even before the series ended.

I'm actually rather proud of the craft that went into the thread title. Yeah, how mod-geeky is it to be proud of a thing like that?
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Old 2007-12-27, 16:58   Link #83
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While Makoto was an absolute scumbag I think death, especially in such brutal fashion, is a bit much. But I think there does have to be some level of sympathy for Makoto for this scene to deliver the full extent of its horror.

Taisuke turns out to be no better, taking advantage of Kotonoha in her weak state (I have real doubts as to whether the court of law would consider it "rape"). And I suppose he gets off scot free...

Whether shock or pure unadulterated joy, Makoto's death had an unmistakeable impact. Genius decision by the writers in incorporating two of the bloody endings into the script, and brilliant execution as well.
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Old 2007-12-27, 17:07   Link #84
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Originally Posted by DanielSong39 View Post
Taisuke turns out to be no better, taking advantage of Kotonoha in her weak state (I have real doubts as to whether the court of law would consider it "rape"). And I suppose he gets off scot free...
Scot free...but I doubt with his personality that he ever gets married...a bad end for him enough.
But you know, many rapists in the real world leave jail scot free...to rape again
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Old 2007-12-27, 17:25   Link #85
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Given this is a fictional character, and the severity of the actions he took, I'd like to quote Samuel L. Jackson from A Time to Kill and say "Yes they deserved to die and I hope they burn in Hell!". This is of course, a world where real life consequences of character-taken actions are never seen. Where practically every girl is so shallow, that they wouldn't even give a boy the time of day until he was off the market. In a world that's this twisted and backwards, killing Makoto would not only be justified, it should be praised.

... And now for my real answer. If this somehow, by the grace of God/Buddha/L. Ron Hubbard, happened in the REAL world, Makoto absolutely would NOT deserve to die. It's ludicrous to think otherwise, and slightly psychotic. Makoto is the closest thing to a realistic character in School Days. Examine all the characters in a real life POV and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. He was being a teenager. Teenagers make mistakes. So in conclusion: If Makoto = Teenager and Teenager = Making mistakes, then Makoto making mistakes is the natural order of things. Therefore, he should not be killed. It's nature you see.
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Old 2007-12-27, 17:29   Link #86
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He deserved to die. The whole time I was watching this all I thought was "please god someone put this guy out of his misery and just kill him." What a scumbag. We don't need people like this in the world, but honestly some of the girls in this show were not much better than him.
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Old 2007-12-27, 19:26   Link #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimkill7 View Post
... And now for my real answer. If this somehow, by the grace of God/Buddha/L. Ron Hubbard, happened in the REAL world, Makoto absolutely would NOT deserve to die. It's ludicrous to think otherwise, and slightly psychotic. Makoto is the closest thing to a realistic character in School Days. Examine all the characters in a real life POV and you'll see that what I'm saying is true. He was being a teenager. Teenagers make mistakes. So in conclusion: If Makoto = Teenager and Teenager = Making mistakes, then Makoto making mistakes is the natural order of things. Therefore, he should not be killed. It's nature you see.
And it is also nature for someone to run him over in a truck and make it look like an accident...

Not saying who :x

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Old 2007-12-27, 19:51   Link #88
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Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
And it is also nature for someone to run him over in a truck and make it look like an accident...

Not saying who :x

The said person has himself an accomplice

Although I argued with multiple posts that he should not die if this were real life, I admit I spent 5 hours picking up a series I dropped at the first ep just to see that bastard die. Needless to say, I was beyond ecstatic to see that brutal knifing.
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Old 2007-12-27, 21:25   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathkillz View Post
And it is also nature for someone to run him over in a truck and make it look like an accident...

Not saying who :x

haha you got a second accomplice ready to serve ^^.



@Grimkill7 : Since its natural to make mistakes, should all mistakes be taken the same way? Im really tired of people pulling that in a discussion. So, if we all just go and have sex with every girl that puts out to you, cause infinite heartbreaks, a few to go insane and others to commit such deeds, its only natural.
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Old 2007-12-31, 01:16   Link #90
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Now, I HATE Makoto as any other fan of this twisted anime, but morally speaking...

-Yes, it's true he was a sick adultery committing fuck bag that should burn in hell but...
-Technically, despite Makoto may have deserved to die or not, Sekai still committed murder, a deadly sin in many religions.
-Pretty much, my feelings are mixed about it.
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Old 2008-01-02, 00:57   Link #91
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Well, I really hate him that he neglected Kotonoha (whom I still have affection for even though shes a psycho who kept his head.... ) and he made off with like 10 girls who he simply switched to in seconds just to get laid.. That shows he had no affection what so ever. I did like that he finally realized that he likes kotonoha at the end.. but, truthfully I didn't want him to die so there'd be a 2nd season or something, but he really did deserve it cause hes a cheating horny retarded bastard..
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Old 2008-01-02, 00:58   Link #92
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Old 2008-01-02, 19:10   Link #93
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He totally deserves to die.

My only sympathy goes towards Sekai: If only she does not have to dirty her hand killing him.
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Old 2008-01-04, 03:14   Link #94
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I find Makoto’s character progression one of the most intriguing, especially with the irony behind his original notion that:

“I’m fine with just looking.”

There are a lot of things that can be drawn from this single statement, especially having been given such an “ordinary” introduction to Makoto. With the introduction of his crush towards Kotonoha and the out-of-the-blue catalyst that Sekai ends up serving, Makoto ends up getting rushed past the development stage of his relationship. Obviously, skipping through the development of a relationship like that would distort the true value of that relationship, and it almost immediately becomes obvious that Makoto and Kotonoha aren’t quite on the same page. Regardless, Makoto follows his “manly” and hormonal teenager instinct and gets ahead of himself. Failing to consider Kotonoha’s own feelings and the such, he becomes disappointed with the way things are, going as far as to suggest that their relationship was “boring.”

Sekai then starts taking advantage of the opportunity to get “a little” from Makoto. Of course, she fails to consider the potential behind Makoto’s inner desire as a hormonal teenager, and she ends up switching on the trigger to his uncontrolled sexual practices. That’s when things start falling apart at a much faster pace.

And the rest is history. Keeping all of this in mind you could even go as far as to say that Makoto was a victim. For one, a victim in a sense that he just couldn’t simply understand the values and depth behind a relationship, which made him vulnerable to both misinterpreting Kotonoha’s timidity and accepting Sekai’s “help.” In another aspect, Makoto was a victim of his inner desire. With the amount of sex Sekai gave him and how open they seemed to be with it, Makoto’s conscious became inclined that sex was a pleasurable experience to be shared “freely” between two people. Now, the extent of “freely” sharing sex gets complicated even further with his old childhood friend nearly forcing him in a situation where he’d have no other choice but to have sex with her. Even though Setsuna actually makes a feeble (but to the core, admirable) attempt to set things right, she actually makes the situation with Makoto’s inner desire worse by almost “freely” offering herself to him just because she thought it’d be enough to have him stay with Sekai. At that point of time Makoto’s conscious has been conditioned by so much sex, he loses all sense of moral standards and pursues sex whenever it’s available, not yet having the consequences of it shoved in his face.

The pregnancy (whether it was true or a lie) was a nice way to deprive Makoto of sex. Eventually his conscious seemed to reach the crash stage of Makoto’s addiction for sex and he begins to feel a sort of agony that might have been considered a first step to atonement. Conveniently, he is shortly reunited with Kotonoha and ends up truly realizing a consequence of his actions and ultimately accepts her, perhaps as a means to set things right. Of course, Sekai just couldn’t have back downed to a reforming Makoto and continues shoving the issue of her pregnancy in his face.

Being a teenager and the such, Makoto would’ve been inclined to push for that child to be aborted. Kotonoha’s rich background provided a means of which that could’ve actually been arranged, but Sekai still didn’t want to give up, even in the corner she was in. (Even Sun Tzu commented on how dangerous that kind of position was in all aspects.)

From there the killing ensues and despite a very, very dim light of hope Makoto might have had near the end, it was a little more than futile. He died, and Kotonoha, despite being the physical “victor,” still seemed to have lost some of her own “life” with Makoto’s with her blind devotion towards him.

Makoto started out so ordinary and became so twisted it was tragic, but in a positive sense in terms of the story’s impact and all. Actually, he was almost given the chance for penance but of course the consequences of his prior rashness were just too much and his futile attempt to set things right ended up no more superior than a “muffled scream.” I guess, with all the mistakes Makoto made in succumbing to his inner desires so easily, he deserved nothing more than that muffled scream of a chance he got.


I hold mixed feelings toward Makoto. In the end, however, since the extent of his horrible actions were just too much for all the time he was given, I can only loathe him. He is a nice example of how weak a hormonal, misinformed teenager can be - and I guess with all the sex he managed to get despite his blatant flaws in the heat of things were just out of sheer luck.
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Old 2008-01-04, 12:10   Link #95
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An inevitable question, this topic is. Well, call me simplistic, but replace Makoto in the question "Does Makoto deserve to die?" with anyone, then it will be up to your moral background that will produce your opinion. It's a yes or no case. So here's 2 cents worth of words from a stranger:

Apparently, Sekai killed Makoto, intentionally as well. I'm sure that's a nice hint that she thought he deserved to die in that point of the anime. In other words, for her, yes.

Now for the tricky part, does he deserve to die IRL? Actually, it's easy to decide on this... once you specify the time period. In the past, where death penalty was more rampant, he might have been put to death. But at this point in time, no, the law dictates that he won't be put to death. I talked about this because I'm sure law is the invisible but critical factor in our topic. I also established that law changes.

As modern day individuals, I hope we could agree on something. But if you still have a radical mindset comparable to some eras in the past, I'm sure you'll argue that he should die. Too bad, if that's going to happen, this topic won't end and would get lame.
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Old 2008-01-04, 12:47   Link #96
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In a modern sense the law won't do anything about it...free will and such. But take it to a lower level where basic human instincts come to play, then certainly so he deserved death...from sekai's prospective anyway. If anyone is allowed to kill him, it would be the girls directly involved with him - only they know the true pain.
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Old 2008-01-04, 16:38   Link #97
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I just feel that alot of people are letting him sly from the situation because he is a teenager and something similar happens often in society which makes it "ok"....I don't like that one bit thats all, at least not that type of thinking. Definitely true that under any court of law, he would be found innocent and let free on the spot, by no means is it "against the law" but what type of punishment would justify the situation? So, if we go and beat the crap outta him, get ourselves in trouble while doing so because we are breaking the law then..yay even better for him, he is still "right" under the law.
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Old 2008-01-04, 17:04   Link #98
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Now for the tricky part, does he deserve to die IRL? Actually, it's easy to decide on this... once you specify the time period. In the past, where death penalty was more rampant, he might have been put to death. But at this point in time, no, the law dictates that he won't be put to death. I talked about this because I'm sure law is the invisible but critical factor in our topic. I also established that law changes.
I've said this before. Human Law =/= Justice. Not modern law, not ancient law, no system of laws that will ever pass can truly represent justice, because justice is individual. Some people think Makoto got what he deserved, some thought it was too extreme.

The real question is: Does Makoto deserve to live based on his actions? The way he should die, who should kill him are pretty much irrelevant. Does such a despicable individual deserve the chance to atone? Will he atone? Is the world better off after he died? What are your opinions?
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Old 2008-01-04, 17:39   Link #99
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Does such a despicable individual deserve the chance to atone? Will he atone? Is the world better off after he died?
1) He had his chance but blew it completely...

2) He obviously shows no intent on doing so...heck I bet he doesn't even know what he has done wrong.

3) Less girls with mental problems...and if he did live, I can just see him growing up to be a good for nothing.
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Old 2008-01-05, 00:37   Link #100
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The real question is: Does Makoto deserve to live based on his actions? The way he should die, who should kill him are pretty much irrelevant. Does such a despicable individual deserve the chance to atone? Will he atone? Is the world better off after he died? What are your opinions?
1. This certainly is a question that calls more for your personal judgement than anything else more general. To me, the answer is yes, in any case. If you already answered no here, it's useless to ask the next question.

2. Another subjective question. It's interesting how you emphasize 'such a despicable' individual. I'll start with the given that ANYONE could become 'such a despicacble' individual - this is because everyone's capable of doing wrong. Equally, everyone can atone for their mistakes, so everyone deserves a chance IMHO. It's always easier said than done, btw.

3. 'Will' asks something from the future, apparently. The future is something we shouldn't know about. But if you have chance to atone, then it's not impossible that you might atone for your wrongs. The variable in this one is 'probability'. In Makoto's case, you can say that his willpower is proportional to the likeliness that he would atone. But as we learned in deathnote, we should scrutinize even the lowest of percentages.

4. Oh, the world would probably be the same. Makoto's death did not really seem to alleviate poverty or eliminate terrorism in their world, which are two of the worldwide issues right now. It shouldn't be so different in this reality, one criminal's death is not enough to change the world. It takes a civilization to effectively change the world. Both for the better and the worse.

5. Basically, my 2 cents is that people don't need to die when they do horrible things. However, as our society seems to worsen, it's making me lose hope for humanity. I'm not certain if I can be able to retain this view.
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