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Old 2008-01-05, 02:18   Link #101
tripperazn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Droplet View Post
1. This certainly is a question that calls more for your personal judgement than anything else more general. To me, the answer is yes, in any case. If you already answered no here, it's useless to ask the next question.
Well, yes, my previous post was basically that people should make their own judgments instead of using "laws" and what not to discuss Makoto's fate. Right, you could stop here and discuss your reasons why he shouldn't atone.

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Originally Posted by Droplet View Post
2. Another subjective question. It's interesting how you emphasize 'such a despicable' individual. I'll start with the given that ANYONE could become 'such a despicacble' individual - this is because everyone's capable of doing wrong. Equally, everyone can atone for their mistakes, so everyone deserves a chance IMHO. It's always easier said than done, btw.
We are not really talking about every one here. Sure, anyone COULD go out and have sex with every female that he knows, while completely disregarding the consequences. Then, ditch the mother of his child to go have sex with other women. When he meets up with the past gf that he drove insane, tries to have sex with her and have her pay for the abortion. But my question was, does someone who has done this get that chance to atone?

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Originally Posted by Droplet View Post
3. 'Will' asks something from the future, apparently. The future is something we shouldn't know about. But if you have chance to atone, then it's not impossible that you might atone for your wrongs. The variable in this one is 'probability'. In Makoto's case, you can say that his willpower is proportional to the likeliness that he would atone. But as we learned in deathnote, we should scrutinize even the lowest of percentages.
I don't know if you've seen School Days' other endings, but Makoto does feel genuinely regretful for what he did in some of them. It's all about interpretation. For example:

Spoiler for Bad End:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Droplet View Post
4. Oh, the world would probably be the same. Makoto's death did not really seem to alleviate poverty or eliminate terrorism in their world, which are two of the worldwide issues right now. It shouldn't be so different in this reality, one criminal's death is not enough to change the world. It takes a civilization to effectively change the world. Both for the better and the worse.
The scale that you're thinking of is completely different than what I meant. Obviously, it's not going to change the world at large, but it would change the lives of those involved with Makoto, and those who would be involved in the future. What if he actually went and apologized to those he had wronged?

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Originally Posted by Droplet View Post
5. Basically, my 2 cents is that people don't need to die when they do horrible things. However, as our society seems to worsen, it's making me lose hope for humanity. I'm not certain if I can be able to retain this view.
The death penalty is definitely a topic that is beyond this thread.
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Old 2008-01-05, 03:12   Link #102
MuMyung
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Uh, I don't know why this title got through but the title is a huge spoiler in itself. Does not matter if there is a tag, it's like having [ Spoiler ]Snape kills dumbledore. Can a mod remove it? At around episode 2 I saw this spoiler title, but luckily glanced over it and quickly forced myself to forget who exactly died or rather if anyone did.
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Old 2008-01-05, 03:37   Link #103
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Originally Posted by NoSanninWa View Post
relentlessflame pretty much described the thought process that I put into crafting the title for this thread. He even covered the angle of discussing Makoto's behavior instead of his penalty, but that wouldn't have worked with the posts that I moved from the general discussion thread. It was clear people wanted to discuss the penalty, so I was willing to go with that.

He only missed one consideration that was on my mind: The difference between "Does Makoto deserve to die" and "Did Makoto deserve to die." The latter one would have been a spoiler by saying that it happened whereas the former question could be asked even before the series ended.

I'm actually rather proud of the craft that went into the thread title. Yeah, how mod-geeky is it to be proud of a thing like that?
Pardon me, but no one is going to put so much thought into that thread title. "Does Makoto deserve to die?" Think of it as present tense, and that Makoto just died. You'd be asking yourself, does he deserve it?[Makoto][To die] Which is the impression this thread gave me. Just glancing over those words, you can come to a solid conclusion that 1) He did infact die, otherwise there'd be no discussion and 2) "deserve" implies that somebody killed him or he was killed beyond his will. Those were the conclusions I came up with immediately upon reading these texts when I read it the first time. Ex. Let's say an unexpected climax for an anime series is that the world, in the end, blows up with all the people living in it dying. Then there is the title, "Does the world deserve to be destroyed?" It's a spoiler in itself. Sure you can justify, the "does" clause, but in the bigger picture you're putting a spoiler in the minds of viewers something they would not have expected and while watching the anime, they'd be more aware of it.

As I stated, I would have lost all interest in the anime if I actually comprehended the main character's name, as he was mostly regarded as Itou-kun for the first episode. Actually knowing he's going to die while watching the anime would have killed all thriller aspects of it. Why not be safe and just title the thread "Does Matoko-kun deserve..." [ body] To die? Reasoning. [/ body ] Or is the spoiler on the title really a risk we have to take for viewers?
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Last edited by MuMyung; 2008-01-05 at 03:57.
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Old 2008-01-05, 16:41   Link #104
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tripperazn View Post
I don't know if you've seen School Days' other endings, but Makoto does feel genuinely regretful for what he did in some of them. It's all about interpretation. For example:

Spoiler for Bad End:
But that wasnt how the anime itself was portrayed...I never liked going into the possible endings the game have be and I have seen some of them but doesnt change the ending the anime took. IN THE ANIME, he felt no remorse, that is unarguable!

about the thread name..Why is anyone surfing the forums of this anime when they havent finished it yet? I have always felt that once an anime is done airing/subbed and available to the general public, spoiler tags are pointless since you shouldnt be participating in alot of discussions until you have seen it in its entirety....Everything you state could be a spoiler if you think about it.....
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Old 2008-01-07, 06:53   Link #105
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I think that he should have died... but then I also thought death was a bit extreme.

I dunno. I'm against death as a penalty for anything. However, the way that the fictional story was set up such that such a fictional character would be as despised as Makoto was, I think he got what was coming for him, in this fictional world. By all means, it made the anime a lot more pleasant to watch, if anything.

But extrapolated to a real life, I don't think that I would condone Sekai's actions.
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Old 2008-01-11, 11:13   Link #106
Tasuke00
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Recently i just happen to watch this anime and the feeling it gave me is sad. The title School days just don't suit this anime.. This title is suppose to be a comedy school anime with romanic story.. but end up sigh~
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Old 2008-01-19, 17:53   Link #107
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he better die- -....if not i will kill him myself...just can't stand people like him...acting like a goody goody person, but actually is a *itch.....if not for that i hear he died in the end, i don't think i will even finish the anime. So ya, he deserved to die like 8 times over, or 25 is better....and very weird, i think the ending is rather interesting...kotonoha...but i don't think sekai should die tho...
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Old 2008-01-20, 15:56   Link #108
Rookie103
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This is the first time I've ever been so passionate about an anime. He does deserve it for what he did to Kotonoha.

Last edited by Rookie103; 2008-01-21 at 11:58.
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Old 2008-01-21, 22:36   Link #109
bbduece
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he need punishment, not death.

Lets assume that no one sticks with their 1st relationship, than that means anyone that goes out with kotonoha with break her heart and turn her into a psycho.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:10   Link #110
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
he need punishment, not death.

Lets assume that no one sticks with their 1st relationship, than that means anyone that goes out with kotonoha with break her heart and turn her into a psycho.
There is no punishment that is more suitable that the one given, death.

No...it doesnt mean that. It was how Makoto handled the situation that caused her to to reach such a state.
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Old 2008-01-22, 00:32   Link #111
bbduece
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People are taking realationships way out of proportion. Death for being unfaithful at the age of 15 sounds ridiculous to me. Yea he didn't handle it right but death? come on. People seem to take death as something insubstantial.
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Old 2008-01-23, 14:15   Link #112
ironbomb
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People are taking relationships irresponsibly. Death was suitable for this single situation because he showed no sign of remorse.
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Old 2008-01-23, 14:56   Link #113
Rookie103
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Originally Posted by ironbomb View Post
People are taking relationships irresponsibly. Death was suitable for this single situation because he showed no sign of remorse.
Does anyone think he was generally sorry when he apologized to Kotonoha in in front of that christmas tree in episode eleven?
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Old 2008-01-23, 21:38   Link #114
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If I heard a general outline of this story, I would definately say he did NOT deserve to die. however, after watching it and actually seeing him being such an asshole, he had it coming and he definitely deserved it. No question about it.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:23   Link #115
bbduece
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I'm talking about real life and i dont think some needs to die from this kinda a situation. But if you guys think that, i see jail bait. For guys, the saying is "dont drop the soap". I dont know what happens in the female pen so becareful ^^.

I got friends that got shot and die so it is a hard reality for me to swallow. My view of death has change a lot because of that, thats why i am so adamant. If it was a few years back i wouldnt give a shit if someone die from talking smack.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:42   Link #116
ironbomb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
I'm talking about real life and i dont think some needs to die from this kinda a situation. But if you guys think that, i see jail bait. For guys, the saying is "dont drop the soap". I dont know what happens in the female pen so becareful ^^.

I got friends that got shot and die so it is a hard reality for me to swallow. My view of death has change a lot because of that, thats why i am so adamant. If it was a few years back i wouldnt give a shit if someone die from talking smack.
I sympathize the tragic event you had to go through but I dont think it has much revelance to the situation that Matoko was in, only to your personal opinion about death =X.

Anyways, I wanna say that, when I say death...I meant the exact way the anime ended. I didnt want no death penalty nor random person killing him off...being killed by Sekai was the best event in the whole anime for me...I been waiting for that to happen, especially how the events took place.
I totally agree that some doesnt deserve to die when in this situation but most do regret, even just a bit, the actions they did. Did Matoko? NO...thats why I will stand by my point that he deserved it!
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:54   Link #117
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It has relevance because this thread ask how we feel about makoto's death. Events in our lives shapes our ideals, how we think because of those ideals and how we act base on those beliefs. This will explain why i see death and murder in a different light as oppose to your views.

For one thing i would not gut my girlfriend if she cheated on me with 15 guys but i might beat the shit out of those 15 guys. If it was before i might have shot them.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-01-24 at 01:06.
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Old 2008-01-24, 04:26   Link #118
boggart
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Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
It has relevance because this thread ask how we feel about makoto's death.
No. It asks, "Does Makoto deserve to die?" In the context of the anime, people all agree he should die. Even myself, who is in a profession of healthcare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
Events in our lives shapes our ideals, how we think because of those ideals and how we act base on those beliefs. This will explain why i see death and murder in a different light as oppose to your views.
True, but that has nothing to do with Makoto and if he deserves to die.

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Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
For one thing i would not gut my girlfriend if she cheated on me with 15 guys but i might beat the shit out of those 15 guys. If it was before i might have shot them.
This is drawing out into your life again, and not the question at hand - "Does Makoto deserve to die?".

Fin.
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Old 2008-01-25, 02:27   Link #119
bbduece
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@ boggart

I'm pretty sure events in our life shapes how we think and how we make decisions.

Quote:
No. It asks, "Does Makoto deserve to die?" In the context of the anime, people all agree he should die. Even myself, who is in a profession of healthcare.
Are you saying it didnt affect my judgement? Or my view on did he deserve to die from petty cheating? I feel it is petty because stuff like that i see all the time.

What does everyone agreeing "makoto should die" have to do with my decision?

"In the context of the anime" - Do you mean a situation in the anime but not a real life situation? Then i think everyone is just stupid and they should kill each other. More blood and gore is always something i enjoy watching. I highly doubt everyone is regarding this question as only pertaining to a fake anime story.

But if we are talking about a theoretical situation such as school days - where major cheating is involve, peeple getting hurt emotionally, irresponsible naive 15 year olds doing stupid things are involve, uninteded psychological damage - than i stand by my opinion that no one needed to die.

Quote:
True, but that has nothing to do with Makoto and if he deserves to die.
I have a different view base on my experience, how can that not be important on my stand if makoto deserves to die or not? My stand on death, murder, execution, etc is different than others. Therefore it counts on how i feel about people getting kill for some naive cheating and uninteded psychological trauma.

Quote:
This is drawing out into your life again, and not the question at hand - "Does Makoto deserve to die?".
And again are you saying that my personal experience does not afffect my judgement and what i think?
I just gave you a reason why i didnt think he deserve to die because i wouldnt kill someone if they cheated on me. It is like saying if i found out my friend was a male whore and he cheated/hurt a lot of girls and he got shank to death by one of them i would feel that he didnt deserve to die. I just gave you a short quick example why i dont think makoto deserve to die. Why is that not a valid reason?

I am not here to prove if makoto deserves to die or not, but to show why i didnt feel like he needed to die. I already know how much some people hate makoto and want him dead. So it would be pointless to convert any of those people.

How can anything that shape my values and beliefs be an invalid way of how i am addressing this question?

If i cant share real life experiences to explain why i didnt belief makoto deserve death than how can i justify my thoughts?


I enjoy school days because the ending is so crazy. It has nothing to do with my true beliefs if a person such as makoto deserve to die. In the context of the anime i really dont give a shit, but since he die and gave me a fantastic ending than sure, i wish more 15 year old are brutally murder by other 15 year olds that they know. More killing, more mayhem, more taboo is always welcome in anime.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-01-28 at 01:43.
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Old 2008-01-25, 15:10   Link #120
kenjiharima
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He deserves to die. He's to perverted in the game and in the anime. No morals at all. It's a dark end I tell you if your like that to girls.

Hurt someone too much you'll either get killed, die of guilt or be haunted for the rest of your life. he's an @$$ #$%le in my book

Spoiler:
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Last edited by kenjiharima; 2008-01-25 at 16:29.
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