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Old 2010-08-06, 18:30   Link #521
AvianWing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
A slap nonchalant is still a slap thats why if you are abusing someone it doesn't really matter what kind of face you make while you do it - abuse is still an abuse, in other words a tsun.

Type C mostly comes when Type A and Type B is not enough to describe, and when mostly the girl is using a smirk tsun form. Smirk involves teasing or verbally sparing someone it doesn't matter if you do it playfully or not, as long as you do it - it is a method of tsun.

And ferris is clearly using the smirk tsun method in there. The only questionable is her dere at this point.
Okay, I see what you're saying. You're saying Tsundere is someone who basically interchange between any kind of abuse and love, and if the traditional definition is not large enough, then it needs to be expanded to fit all categories. On the other hand, I follow the traditional definition by the book and that it cannot be expanded. In other words, to qualify being a tsundere, not just any exhibition of abuse will qualify, but certain agitation and aloofness needs to be part of it.

This is exemplified on our discussion of physical abuse-- that is to say, I believe that Ferris was not agitated when she hit Ryner, hence, this type of abuse does not typify the same abuse that angry Louise undergoes. Thereby Ferris cannot be a tsundere because she does not fall into the category as traditionally defined. But you're saying that since it's an abuse, that's the tsun side of tsundere.

In the end, it just boils down to semantics. I'm still wondering, though, where did you get the type C tsundere?
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Old 2010-08-06, 18:52   Link #522
chaos_animagic
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Well... the more I watch this anime, the boring-er it gets.... I am now thinking of dropping this series...

Anyways... here's the super old Dere chart (still haven't found an updated one... this is like 3-4+ years old)


Someone should update it, since there's a lot more degrees of Dere, and the newly one that's brought forth by the manga "Onidere" it's the extreme form of Tsundere and Yandere combined...
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Old 2010-08-06, 19:17   Link #523
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvianWing View Post
Okay, I see what you're saying. You're saying Tsundere is someone who basically interchange between any kind of abuse and love, and if the traditional definition is not large enough, then it needs to be expanded to fit all categories. On the other hand, I follow the traditional definition by the book and that it cannot be expanded. In other words, to qualify being a tsundere, not just any exhibition of abuse will qualify, but certain agitation and aloofness needs to be part of it.

This is exemplified on our discussion of physical abuse-- that is to say, I believe that Ferris was not agitated when she hit Ryner, hence, this type of abuse does not typify the same abuse that angry Louise undergoes. Thereby Ferris cannot be a tsundere because she does not fall into the category as traditionally defined. But you're saying that since it's an abuse, that's the tsun side of tsundere.

In the end, it just boils down to semantics. I'm still wondering, though, where did you get the type C tsundere?
If you want a Type C tsundere as in a first role model then that would be Madoka from Kimagure Orange Road because she is sort of combination of both Type A and Type B but is not really either of them purely as she uses a more mature approach. Her more mature approach feels like that because her 'smirk' lacks the usual hostile energy with it as it is used to cover her feelings like all other tsundere's do, just that she does not use violence or instant verbal abuse but more of a playing calm style which is still protecting herself from revealing her true feelings.

She is a tsundere, because a normal girl would not try to hide her true feelings so hard and be in a such a constant denial ecven with herself, so she clearly is not what you would call normal, but she is not energy and anger packed up Type A but is not usually sweet and normal but then turning into small furious bits Type B as her mask is more constant than that.

Thus the need for Type C, which is sort of both Type A and Type B but at the same time not them when taken separately. Type C is I guess closer to Type B as Type B tsunderes are not really pent up with anger and are really dere as default and have the explosions of tsun depending on situations. Type C doesn't have such explosions of tsun but their dere is not really a dere either but more like stretched tsun cause their self protection is not anger but rather playfulness and teasing but still nevertheless hiding their true self and feelings from their love interest just like typical tsundere does.

She is not a kuudere too because she is not always calm and composed and she uses a tsun technique. Kuudere should not use tsun technique because her main feature should be kuu (cool, calm) and dere, not kuu-tsun-dere. Thats why the likes like Yue from Negima or Yuki from Harruhi are textbook kuudere's but the likes like Hitagi from Bakemonogatri are not, because they use tsun technique 'smirk' often which kind of makes her kuu part as the main part questionable.

ferris also uses the smirk, (a tsun techhnique) but at the same time does it with calm, cool face like a kuudere. But because of her relationship act she is still closer to tsun (due to her methods even if the lack the hostility) tree. But in any case the discussions of Ferris being a tsundere or kuudere is pointless for now because she doesnt show her dere side in anycase so she cannot be either for now.

I just view that the aloofness can be created by an interaction technique and the character do not actually be really aloof for that. While you think that the character needs to be aloof independently from the interaction technique used.

I don't know if you know but there is a character Yamada from B Gata H Kei, who if you look by her acts is a 100% tsundere, but since the story is told from her point of view she is not a 100% tsundere because it shows how many of her tsun acts are misunderstandings, but even if they are a misunderstandings they still generate the same reaction from her and from others as simple tsun does even if she herself is not really aloof. This character probably illustrates our views differences the best.

Last edited by Darknemo2000; 2010-08-06 at 19:29.
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Old 2010-08-06, 19:23   Link #524
taelrak
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I actually like the interactions between Ferris and Rynar I do think they're progressing a bit fast though.
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Old 2010-08-06, 19:29   Link #525
Johnny
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It's like watching a show through a fish tank. Most of the episode was sluggish if I want to call it. I really dislike the beating Ferris beating Ryner game as I see it continues in ep 6. That's why I dropped that Occult Gakuin anime...

However, I like the magic aspect of the show and will cross my fingers hoping that Ferris grows up or Ryner shoots a fireball up her ass...

I did find it odd at first that Sion had no clue Miran attack the duo, but guessed that Sion wasn't keeping that close of a tab on him. Next episode looks to have more action, hopefully...
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Old 2010-08-06, 21:38   Link #526
ThinkTank
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
It's like watching a show through a fish tank. Most of the episode was sluggish if I want to call it. I really dislike the beating Ferris beating Ryner game as I see it continues in ep 6. That's why I dropped that Occult Gakuin anime...

However, I like the magic aspect of the show and will cross my fingers hoping that Ferris grows up or Ryner shoots a fireball up her ass...

I did find it odd at first that Sion had no clue Miran attack the duo, but guessed that Sion wasn't keeping that close of a tab on him. Next episode looks to have more action, hopefully...
I also didn't understand why they fought, but I just accepted that maybe the anime probably cut something out.

All this tsundere/kuudere talk is strange or I missed all the "dere" parts.
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Old 2010-08-06, 23:48   Link #527
pampz21
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makes me think that Ryner is starting to loose control of his alpha stigma at 13:55
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Old 2010-08-07, 00:25   Link #528
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
I get the feeling that Ryner's nickname has a big meaning..... Kuro-Kami black hair/ black god! well he have many nickname "Roland's Saikyo no Majutsushi" "Kuro-Kami no Akuma" 'Alpha Stigma" and
Spoiler for Ryner:

I wish they explain them all....! how did he became saikyo and how the hell was he cursed with alpha stigma!
[snip]

Overall, the pacing is too fast actually. Lots of scenes seem to be cut out / condensed, like fighting the assassins, etc. Maybe they are not necessary to the story telling, but it certainly takes away the tension and excitement. They probably are seriously wanting to cramp all 11 volumes into 26 episodes. The fight between Miran and FxR seems too fast. There's supposed to be more excitement and dangerous situations when I read that part. Meh... tension lost... WTF is with that "crude care" mentioned in passing? Where is the scene of Ryner treating Ferris's wounds!? That would be ultimate! (Ferris holding her sword saying "If you make any strange move, I'll kill you" as Ryner is tending to her wounds)

Last edited by White Manju Bun; 2010-08-07 at 10:23. Reason: no spoilers in thread
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Old 2010-08-07, 04:51   Link #529
kujoe
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Sion is playing such a dangerous game...

Nice to see some spellcasting action this time.
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Old 2010-08-07, 06:33   Link #530
Scy
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This episode is definitely very confusing; the closest I can make out of the plot is that
Spoiler:


Can someone explain better as to what is going on in this episode?
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Old 2010-08-07, 07:13   Link #531
Hypernova
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scy View Post
This episode is definitely very confusing; the closest I can make out of the plot is that
Spoiler:


Can someone explain better as to what is going on in this episode?
I'm under the impression that Milan acted on his own when it comes to the Toale part. While Milan was responsible for rooting out the instigators during the banquet, Ryner and Ferris served as protection for Sion, but Sion did not order those two around just to get them away from Toale with the intention of killing him.
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Old 2010-08-07, 07:25   Link #532
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scy View Post

Can someone explain better as to what is going on in this episode?
Sion sort of gave Milan operational autonomy in getting rid of plotters in both sides of Roland and Nelpha.

Now Milan believes in world domination and for Sion to do it he must be the only Messiah. Thus it would be better to have the bad prince rather than his son Toale be the King. Toale is unambitious but he has qualities of a benevolent king.

Milan is basically the Token Evil Teammate of Sion's group.

Milan likes to think he is the king's indispensable subordinate for the dirty stuff. He doesn't really know what is going on. Lucile Eris putting Sion in his position and willing to kill him if he isn't good enough. Sion sending Ryner and Ferris to collect WMDs based on a thesis of Ryner to keep the peace. An equivalent of a nuclear deterrent plan. You don't need conventional magical warfare if one possesses all the Hero Relics.

Lets just say Milan's plan of continental conquest is conventional while Ryner's thesis is revolutionary.
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Old 2010-08-07, 07:25   Link #533
giorno
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Sion knew full well what Miran intended to do, regardless of wether he ordered him to or not. I also believe he tried to get Ryner and Ferris away from Toale so Miran could kill him off easily, but judging from his reaction at the end, he may have miscalculated how to keep them away...that, or he actually considered acceptable to sacrifice them...
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Old 2010-08-07, 15:24   Link #534
AvianWing
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So, anyone here willing to eat 50 dangos a day to see whether your blood turn black?

It's a rather huge scientific undertaking. Rewarding, too, for surely the experiment will benefit humankind, 2D and 3D depictions alike.
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Old 2010-08-07, 21:32   Link #535
OkamiNoKaze
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Episode 6 was probably one of my favorite episode up until now. The fight between Ferris and Ryner and Milan, was pretty cool and well done. It surprised me that Sion didn't set up that fight, I thought maybe he was doing it to keep tabs on Milan. I found that rock music rift, that was used, while sneaking around sounded a bit out of place
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Last edited by OkamiNoKaze; 2010-08-08 at 21:59. Reason: oops this is episode 6
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Old 2010-08-07, 21:50   Link #536
Dralha
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Ferris' abuse of Ryner is so irritating. Everything else is fine: great setting, great plot, great animation, interesting characters, love the action scenes & effects. I even like the Ferris/Ryner pairing. I just wish they'd toss the petty slapstick out the window.

Spoiler for Episode 6:
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Old 2010-08-08, 01:15   Link #537
Ichijo
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Another episode with focus on Sion *sigh*
Ferris and Ryner seem like supporting cast now. I really wish the plot would just get on with it.
Also, Milan, always showing his ring and Ferris's injury seemed forced and unnatural.
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Old 2010-08-08, 03:15   Link #538
roriconfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralha View Post
Ferris' abuse of Ryner is so irritating.
...
I even like the Ferris/Ryner pairing. I just wish they'd toss the petty slapstick out the window.
Wanna bet it is the main selling point in the anime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dralha View Post
Everything else is fine: great setting, great plot, great animation, interesting characters, love the action scenes & effects.
But we've seen FAAAR better in a hill of other anime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ichijo View Post
Another episode with focus on Sion *sigh*
Ferris and Ryner seem like supporting cast now. I really wish the plot would just get on with it.
Sion is part of the plot too. Only thing, his story and the other two's seem like different anime altogether. You just prefer the tsun couple to the angsty aristocrat.
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Old 2010-08-08, 06:02   Link #539
mechalord
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Shion ordered Ferris and Ryner to look after him at the party. They climbed the roof of a nearby building but they were spotted. So, they ran off. Since they weren't really into watching Shion, they split and went back to Toale. Shion saw them run off.

Shion walks into his room, Miran killed the assassin that was supposed to kill him and tells Shion he's dealt with the nobles who were allied to Shion's enemies. Shion leaves to inform the king about the plot against him and his sons involvement.

Miran leaves Shion with the promise to kill the remaining conspirators/participants or to deal with unfinished business. Miran shows up and confuses Ryner for Toale. Miran believes he was being expected. Was Toale an actual conspirator? Did he assist his fathers' allies?
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Old 2010-08-08, 09:43   Link #540
larethian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mechalord View Post
Shion ordered Ferris and Ryner to look after him at the party. They climbed the roof of a nearby building but they were spotted. So, they ran off. Since they weren't really into watching Shion, they split and went back to Toale. Shion saw them run off.

Shion walks into his room, Miran killed the assassin that was supposed to kill him and tells Shion he's dealt with the nobles who were allied to Shion's enemies. Shion leaves to inform the king about the plot against him and his sons involvement.

Miran leaves Shion with the promise to kill the remaining conspirators/participants or to deal with unfinished business. Miran shows up and confuses Ryner for Toale. Miran believes he was being expected. Was Toale an actual conspirator? Did he assist his fathers' allies?
Firstly, FxR went back because they had disposed of the assassins. And they thought that was it so their job was over. The fight scene was actually cut out, and only a few bodies were shown. It was one-sided anyway so there ain't much to show.

Toale did nothing. In fact, it was mentioned that his father started conspiring with other nobles, including those of Roland, since the king (of Nelpha) started having thoughts of changing the successor to Toale. Miran just thought Toale as posing a future threat, if he becomes king, to Roland's ambition to conquering the continent, and decided to remove him.
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