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Old 2008-07-21, 08:27   Link #201
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cranston View Post
You could combo Explode with Celestiary if Nozomu's all-rounding. Personally, I never used it.
Actually, Explode (normal first playthrough that is, never tried hard or whatnot) is, in my opinion, one of the most trustworthy skills for Nozomu as a AR. Basically, it prevents wasting use of Dual edge II or Name breaker, on these silly green defenders. yet, also prevents a annoying strong blue attacker to live too long (damn Heavens sword II and its sick 1080M -_-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnishida View Post
Is this your first playthrough? The first time you play the game no matter what choices you make you will always end up going with Naya.
Pretty much like shinova, I got a completely different result as the first time. I ended with satsuki (never got her in MVP or whatnot, relied only on the ADV choices)
Quote:
Originally Posted by cranston View Post
And, yes, I'm starting to see Narukana's awesome skills. Excaliber II was incredibly powerful for that stage of the game. However, the other two skills which I acquired (2 red support skills), aren't very useful. At least, I don't see her ever needing to rely on Incinerate.
Their main usefulness is that they recharge the uses of fireball
Quote:
BTW Why doesn't F defence work against Incinerate?
I guess it is working as "intended": It doesn't seem to factor a lot on the force of the caster. either.
Quote:
PS It's kinda weird, but any team or character which can't attack the enemy attacker (or better yet, all) isn't effective. Their defenders are too hard. Either that, or my tactics suck.
Until you have fat attackers (Sol with his 1200M, Euphie with her 1100/350 direct F attack), you gotta rely more likely on either Lightning Fire or usual direct F attacks.


Almost done with my first playthrough (almost end chapter 11), and it seems Xuse were sneaky enough to force maniac players to play 18 times (if the pattern of skills is the same for the 3 difficulties) to complete the whole roster
Got my hands on "Disintegrate" and it is frigging awesome (though, is it me or Satsuki's stats are fat because of her route? I mean, she has 6-7K HP which owns anyone except Nozomi and Narukana)

Meanwhile, I was really disappointed by Narukana (character wise): I don't mind "princess" type, but Narukana pushed the limits to many times it was kinda obnoxious (especially compared to her gentle self in either the first dream, or in Jiluol's memories). At least, she doesn't sue a (w)atakushi... maa, I hope her route will be something specific than a "bow before me, worm" trend ~~
Her "walking weapon of mass destruction mode" is however ridiculous to some extent... Ironically enough, she is so mana dependant that a "certain boss fight" would be her doom

Speaking of "unbalanced" characters and whatnot, I'm finally relieved that Katima becomes a bit "useful" recently with her new acquired 850/250 skill. Honestly, until she got that, she was a questionable F attacker and taxi driver thanks to her IP and final velocity... Seriously, I don't understand how there is so many crap non usable skills here and there (toncrap of low value skills with mana cost of 3-4). Sol almost had the same syndrome, though got earlier, a 910 then 1200.

Oh yeah, I have a question that lingered quite a long time:
What is the usefulness/effect of any plus/minus for a color affinity? I can't exactly see the real disadvantage of using "Holy", while I can't see why it would be worthy to lower all stats for "elemental".
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:07   Link #202
Hemisphere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Meanwhile, I was really disappointed by Narukana (character wise): I don't mind "princess" type, but Narukana pushed the limits to many times it was kinda obnoxious (especially compared to her gentle self in either the first dream, or in Jiluol's memories). At least, she doesn't sue a (w)atakushi... maa, I hope her route will be something specific than a "bow before me, worm" trend ~~
Her "walking weapon of mass destruction mode" is however ridiculous to some extent... Ironically enough, she is so mana dependant that a "certain boss fight" would be her doom
Narukana-sama's true character shines in her route (obviously). There's more to her character than that, and she wouldn't be the second-most loved character in Seinarukana if she was just as obnoxious and stuck-up as she appeared.

Quote:
Speaking of "unbalanced" characters and whatnot, I'm finally relieved that Katima becomes a bit "useful" recently with her new acquired 850/250 skill. Honestly, until she got that, she was a questionable F attacker and taxi driver thanks to her IP and final velocity... Seriously, I don't understand how there is so many crap non usable skills here and there (toncrap of low value skills with mana cost of 3-4). Sol almost had the same syndrome, though got earlier, a 910 then 1200.
Katima and Sol's worth in combat shows once you get their percentage attacks, which really helps out in the higher difficulties.

Quote:
Oh yeah, I have a question that lingered quite a long time:
What is the usefulness/effect of any plus/minus for a color affinity? I can't exactly see the real disadvantage of using "Holy", while I can't see why it would be worthy to lower all stats for "elemental".
Well, they help reduce/increase the amount of damage that you can take or deal out. I've never noticed much difference, though, but sometimes it does kick it - I just wasn't paying enough attention/looking too hard for its effects.
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:19   Link #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Speaking of "unbalanced" characters and whatnot, I'm finally relieved that Katima becomes a bit "useful" recently with her new acquired 850/250 skill. Honestly, until she got that, she was a questionable F attacker and taxi driver thanks to her IP and final velocity... Seriously, I don't understand how there is so many crap non usable skills here and there (toncrap of low value skills with mana cost of 3-4). Sol almost had the same syndrome, though got earlier, a 910 then 1200.
In later stages of Hard, and throughout all of Superhard, Katima, Sorluska, and other % attackers are absolutely invaluable. Sure, they're not that useful in Normal, but later on, non-% skills are just about deadweight.

Sorluska
裂空掌破I (Normal skill)= 12% M
獣牙断III (Superhard skill) = 2800 M
Against a 25000 HP enemy, even Rekkuu Shouha I is equivalent to a 3000 M attack (25000*12%). Rekkuu Shouha III is a 4500 M atttack! Now think about those 60k+ HP Green defenders in Superhard...
Oh, and Naya's SH route attack skill one hit KOs just about anything. (1700M+25% F, with 500% Will... at least HPx1.25 damage ) Oh, I loved taking out those 100k HP bosses in one round.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Oh yeah, I have a question that lingered quite a long time:
What is the usefulness/effect of any plus/minus for a color affinity? I can't exactly see the real disadvantage of using "Holy", while I can't see why it would be worthy to lower all stats for "elemental".
Refer to PhoenixG's very comprehensive post:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=153
I guess it means that it's just as important as the visible attributes.
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:24   Link #204
PhoenixG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, Explode (normal first playthrough that is, never tried hard or whatnot) is, in my opinion, one of the most trustworthy skills for Nozomu as a AR. Basically, it prevents wasting use of Dual edge II or Name breaker, on these silly green defenders. yet, also prevents a annoying strong blue attacker to live too long (damn Heavens sword II and its sick 1080M -_-)
Well on normal mode it is usefull. But on Hard and Super-hard it loose it shine, because it lacks power and the insane HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Almost done with my first playthrough (almost end chapter 11), and it seems Xuse were sneaky enough to force maniac players to play 18 times (if the pattern of skills is the same for the 3 difficulties) to complete the whole roster
Got my hands on "Disintegrate" and it is frigging awesome (though, is it me or Satsuki's stats are fat because of her route? I mean, she has 6-7K HP which owns anyone except Nozomi and Narukana)
Well Satsuki is quite a mana-house in her route, and in every route that girl gets some stats boost, so you might say that Satsuki's stats are bit fat in her route.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Speaking of "unbalanced" characters and whatnot, I'm finally relieved that Katima becomes a bit "useful" recently with her new acquired 850/250 skill. Honestly, until she got that, she was a questionable F attacker and taxi driver thanks to her IP and final velocity... Seriously, I don't understand how there is so many crap non usable skills here and there (toncrap of low value skills with mana cost of 3-4). Sol almost had the same syndrome, though got earlier, a 910 then 1200.
Well "black type" characters tend to start out weak (balanced attack, HP based attack and weak defence), but they really start to shine in hard and super-hard due some of their attack is based on enemies HP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Oh yeah, I have a question that lingered quite a long time:
What is the usefulness/effect of any plus/minus for a color affinity? I can't exactly see the real disadvantage of using "Holy", while I can't see why it would be worthy to lower all stats for "elemental".
Well I've tried out once.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=153

BTW. Holy is really bad. Actually it reduce your attack and defence due the damage formula. While elemental increase a bit.
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:37   Link #205
Klashikari
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Thanks for the explanations. I expected the % to be valuable only on large scale HP, and it seems you confirmed my thoughts.
That said, I guess the % and busters are meant to take out the biggest chunk, then you pull out some straight damage afterwards?

Interesting about Holy and Elemental. I guess Normal mode is really nothing to base the whole system on. No wonder Belbazerd was that annoying with his crazy starting buff. I guess I will try out elemental more extensively

That said, does the mana capability increases even more in H and SH? Pulling 3-4 mana skills isn't exactly that great until you have a white unit spamming manalink/celesitaly. I assume you (and the enemies) got a larger mana pool / generation? (I certainly cannot imagine how annoying Edega would be if he keeps his mana disrupting skills, especially freezing sphere -_-)
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Old 2008-07-21, 10:47   Link #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That said, does the mana capability increases even more in H and SH? Pulling 3-4 mana skills isn't exactly that great until you have a white unit spamming manalink/celesitaly. I assume you (and the enemies) got a larger mana pool / generation? (I certainly cannot imagine how annoying Edega would be if he keeps his mana disrupting skills, especially freezing sphere -_-)
Mana generation stays the same for basically the entire game. Some characters get some bonuses with Orihalcon names, but IIRC it's the same in Normal difficulty. For the big attacks, I'd usually use a dedicated mana linker (Subaru... he's worthless doing anything else <_<), or Allrounder, which gives you a lot more options. Some characters also have self-replenishing attacks, like Katima's route A and S skills.
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Old 2008-07-21, 12:46   Link #207
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Pretty much like shinova, I got a completely different result as the first time. I ended with satsuki (never got her in MVP or whatnot, relied only on the ADV choices)
Actually I intended to go with Ruputna first, got her, and started finding her route really.... lackluster? So I went back and went for Satsuki instead, whose route I heard was great.
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Old 2008-07-21, 18:30   Link #208
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gonna, pick this one up by end of week, but this may be a stupd question what version is the game running on, do I have ot d/l the patch in a set order , or can i go after the most rececent one??? if money not an issue would the special package be the better release to pick up or just the regular package?
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Old 2008-07-21, 20:04   Link #209
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Originally Posted by lightl View Post
gonna, pick this one up by end of week, but this may be a stupd question what version is the game running on, do I have ot d/l the patch in a set order , or can i go after the most rececent one??? if money not an issue would the special package be the better release to pick up or just the regular package?
the 1.0006 patch contains all previous changes, so you only need one.

The Special Package comes with the PS2 port of Eien no Aselia, a B5-sized booklet with the soundtrack, and different box art.
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=151


The normal edition also has the soundtrack, but no booklet.


Both of these had a set of 8 stick posters as a preorder special... I got the SP with the posters as well, for less than the normal edition price, on Amazon Marketplace.

Considering the SP comes with an extra game, and isn't that much more, it's a pretty good deal.
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Old 2008-07-21, 21:48   Link #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Actually, Explode (normal first playthrough that is, never tried hard or whatnot) is, in my opinion, one of the most trustworthy skills for Nozomu as a AR. Basically, it prevents wasting use of Dual edge II or Name breaker, on these silly green defenders. yet, also prevents a annoying strong blue attacker to live too long (damn Heavens sword II and its sick 1080M -_-)
Actually, even in normal mode, Explode just doesn't do enough damage to justify its use, except when you run out of Dual Edge II and Name Breaker. Once you've got those, you should still be able to kill green defenders in two hits. Unless it's almost time to upgrade, that is.

As for Incinerate, I've tested many times and confirmed that it ignores F defence stats. Try using it on an enemy with F defence higher than Incinerates F500+/-. My current theory is that the Incinerate triggers before Defence Timing.

Has anyone tried using Nozomu with Protection Black against Etoru? This skill may be useful in Hard and Very Hard when I face down all those bosses once more. Daraba, Zetsu, Subaru, etc.

@lightl
You can d/l the patch from Xuse's website.
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Old 2008-07-22, 01:36   Link #211
PhoenixG
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About Incinerate ignores defence, that is correct. The reason is the timing. Incinerate activate at interrupt timing and not on attack or support timing. meaning there won't be a defense timing.

Actually You and the enemies won't defend against interrupt type skills.

Well there are more spells that use interrupt timing to attack like; Nozomi Blast and Narukana's elemental blast.
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Old 2008-07-23, 07:30   Link #212
Hemisphere
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Seinarukana Special Fandisc!

Now, you too can ichaicha the extra characters.
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Old 2008-07-23, 23:11   Link #213
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Seinarukana Special Fandisc!

Now, you too can ichaicha the extra characters.
A boon to Thalia fans.
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Old 2008-07-24, 20:03   Link #214
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Originally Posted by Erhjegel View Post
As for the second city trip, it's the one where everyone goes into panic mode and returns to Izumo in order to defend it. Don't remember the exact scene, but I firmly recall it happening after Tokimi lends Nozomu one of her Shinkens. There's really no CG in that scene, just talking, but it helps in showing you who has the highest affection for you at that point.
I've reached Chapter 10 and we've returned to Izumo. Not only returned to Izumo, but also went to the "next" world with Narukana, Satsuki, and Nozomi. There was no city trip in between these two events.

I think the second trip was supposed to occur in chapter 8, 'cause, after going to the "next" world, there was a "scene" which confirms I'm on Nozomi's route.
Spoiler for By scene, I mean:


So, yeah, the 2nd trip didn't happen.
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Old 2008-08-05, 10:33   Link #215
Last Sinner
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Hi, 1st time player, was the one one who got cranston into this. I've been able to work through this fine until 5-2. This mission is on the verge of driving me bonkers. I've been able to finish it in 1129 IT but I can't crack into the 1098 or less required for SS.

Teams I'm using:

ARs: Euphoria (goes North before and after the midpoint) and Nozomu (east both times)
Team to kill the spawn near the midpoint after the teleport: Ruputna/Satsuki/Thalia
Team to kill the White Dragon near the teleport after the teleport: Salles/Sorluska/Jatzieta
Team to go to beyond the teleport with Euphoria: Katima/Nozomi/Naya

I can kill everything (that White Dragon near the teleport gave me problems finding the right team), Nozomu reaches the Target Point fine, Jatzieta kills the White Dragon near the teleport fast enough. I have coordinated Katima's and Euphie's progress so that they reach the point where the Red Dragon is and the Green Dragon moves to without having to waste time waiting to be able to attack the right target and keep moving. But Euphoria and the Katima team can't make it to the other White Dragon past the teleport in time. They took until 1091 IT to reach and kill it on my most recent attempt, leaving Nozomu to wait until 1129 IT to take out the Black Dragon, which is too late for SS.

Any advice? I've spent well over a week on this mission and I'm sick to death of it.

And for the record, I'm doing Katima's route.
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Old 2008-08-05, 11:04   Link #216
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Hi, 1st time player, was the one one who got cranston into this. I've been able to work through this fine until 5-2. This mission is on the verge of driving me bonkers. I've been able to finish it in 1129 IT but I can't crack into the 1098 or less required for SS.

Teams I'm using:

ARs: Euphoria (goes North before and after the midpoint) and Nozomu (east both times)
Team to kill the spawn near the midpoint after the teleport: Ruputna/Satsuki/Thalia
Team to kill the White Dragon near the teleport after the teleport: Salles/Sorluska/Jatzieta
Team to go to beyond the teleport with Euphoria: Katima/Nozomi/Naya

I can kill everything (that White Dragon near the teleport gave me problems finding the right team), Nozomu reaches the Target Point fine, Jatzieta kills the White Dragon near the teleport fast enough. I have coordinated Katima's and Euphie's progress so that they reach the point where the Red Dragon is and the Green Dragon moves to without having to waste time waiting to be able to attack the right target and keep moving. But Euphoria and the Katima team can't make it to the other White Dragon past the teleport in time. They took until 1091 IT to reach and kill it on my most recent attempt, leaving Nozomu to wait until 1129 IT to take out the Black Dragon, which is too late for SS.

Any advice? I've spent well over a week on this mission and I'm sick to death of it.

And for the record, I'm doing Katima's route.
As for this mission, it should be trivial compared to any other normal SS:
Euphoria can just solo plain fine the section past the teleport. You would rather prefer to keep Katima's team to break out the green dragon then going on to demolish the white dragon after euphoria got teleported.

Maybe you didn't create the most advanced hourglass perhaps.
I don't see the diffult part that slow you down enough to fall under the condition for SS here.
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Old 2008-08-05, 11:53   Link #217
PhoenixG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
Hi, 1st time player, was the one one who got cranston into this. I've been able to work through this fine until 5-2. This mission is on the verge of driving me bonkers. I've been able to finish it in 1129 IT but I can't crack into the 1098 or less required for SS.

Teams I'm using:

ARs: Euphoria (goes North before and after the midpoint) and Nozomu (east both times)
Team to kill the spawn near the midpoint after the teleport: Ruputna/Satsuki/Thalia
Team to kill the White Dragon near the teleport after the teleport: Salles/Sorluska/Jatzieta
Team to go to beyond the teleport with Euphoria: Katima/Nozomi/Naya

I can kill everything (that White Dragon near the teleport gave me problems finding the right team), Nozomu reaches the Target Point fine, Jatzieta kills the White Dragon near the teleport fast enough. I have coordinated Katima's and Euphie's progress so that they reach the point where the Red Dragon is and the Green Dragon moves to without having to waste time waiting to be able to attack the right target and keep moving. But Euphoria and the Katima team can't make it to the other White Dragon past the teleport in time. They took until 1091 IT to reach and kill it on my most recent attempt, leaving Nozomu to wait until 1129 IT to take out the Black Dragon, which is too late for SS.

Any advice? I've spent well over a week on this mission and I'm sick to death of it.

And for the record, I'm doing Katima's route.
How about you let the team Salles/Sorluska/Jatzieta pass the teleport and let Euphoria kill that dragon instead? I think that team is faster than Euphoria or put Naya and Jatzieta in one team.
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Old 2008-08-05, 21:57   Link #218
Last Sinner
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@Klashikari: In my most recent attempt, Euphie was unhindered in her movements until she took the teleport and ran into mobs 19 and 20 on a node 2 away from the White Dragon in that section. Neither of those mobs move forward to meet her. Euphie takes out mob 19 but can't move forward. The Katima team then took out mob 20. That's the one time Euphie wasn't able to move forward. Plus, Euphie can't kill a White Dragon in one battle, even with her attack buff. I take the Katima team so that they make her only need one battle to after they weaken it. And I built a level 5 Sands of Time at the very start with Sorluska, I don't think there was anything faster I could build.

@PhoenixG: Actually, the Katima team, the Jatzieta team and Euphie all have the same averaged IP - 20. I use Sorluska at the very start to build a Level 5 Sands of Time, so that means that team won't be fast enough. The very first time I tried putting Euphie on the White Dragon that spawns on the North path, but that left the other groups to get fairly battered. Putting Naya and Jatzieta in the same team pretty much means there isn't a team that can kill the Green Dragon fast enough. Only a team with Katima and Naya/Jatzieta could take out the Green Dragon in one battle for me.

In case this is relevant, where I'm currently at, Katima has 8%M/500F and 400M/400F 4 mana attacks and has had Final Velocity for ages. Naya has Incinerate and Fireball, as does Jatzieta. Jatzieta also has 200M/450F and 480M/320F attacks, Naya still has that crappy 100M/350F one.
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Old 2008-08-06, 02:20   Link #219
PhoenixG
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Hmmm.... when I was playing this level on easy with a euphie AR, she was able to all dragons except the white one in one battle :/

Although I was a long time ago that I played that level with low levels ( all my characters are lvl 99 ). Maybe I'll try to replay it again today for fun.

But I remember that I never build any artifact and still able to get SS rank.
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Old 2008-08-06, 05:44   Link #220
Hemisphere
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Interesting. I might give a run through of the stage myself. I know I snagged an SS with this one, just can't remember how.
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