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Old 2008-09-19, 15:56   Link #1081
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
I mention it because she's the one with the ability to spot the cores. That's a huge role to destroy the bad guys, but now that those are gone it's a wonder who they would fight.
Gone from one area. This also doesn't even get into the question of where they came from to begin with.
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Old 2008-09-19, 16:05   Link #1082
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Gone from one area. This also doesn't even get into the question of where they came from to begin with.
If they were only defeated from one area why would they disband the only force that can fight them?? All the girls just went back home. Why not send them to where the fight is if there were more?
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Old 2008-09-19, 16:14   Link #1083
Tiamat's Disciple
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That's explained, that unit was only for that area, now that that particular area is cleared the unit wasn't needed and the witches returned to their respective armies.

Also, as was shown at the end, theirs wasn't the only unit of witches, it was just the only one shown in the series. There's still a wealth of action available for Gonzo to work with if they choose to, and i for one hope they do!!

As for the Neuroi, when you get down to it, from what's shown in this series at least. It seems the humans fired first. Neuroi came down from the sky, and were fired upon, as a result they fired back. They could of just been coming to say hello, but got shot at instead

I haven't seen the manga or LN's, so that's just my thoughts from what was shown in the series. Also given that some of them atleast seem to be wanting to make peaceful contact, there's just a tone of questions left unanswered

Damn you GONZO!! Do a second season, and a full 26 episode season!!
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Old 2008-09-19, 16:15   Link #1084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxxFireArt View Post
If they were only defeated from one area why would they disband the only force that can fight them?? All the girls just went back home. Why not send them to where the fight is if there were more?
I take it you've only watched the anime the first and major mistake is that they aren't the only ones by a long shot there are scores of other witches around. As for the second bit they were disbaned because that force was formed to defend said area and once the threat was gone it was disbanded indeed likely to send it's component units where they were more needed.

Remember all we saw of many of them was a couple freeze frame pictures of them doing random happy things. Blowing this up to mean that all of them just went home seems a stretch and besides they wanted to end it on an up note adding an epilogue that amounted to. "And then a bunch of them shipped off to new battlezones to keep risking there lives and quite possibly be killed." wouldn't really do that. Think of it this way we raised a Flag over Iwo Jima and it made a pretty picture and everyone cheered... and then we kept fighting for weeks longer losing thousands of more men including the majorty of those that raised said flag. That's not much fun to think about though so often in order to be uplifting you'll only hear about that moment and not the bloody aftermath.

It is possible though that they all got lucky and having become heroes might be pulled off the line to do morale boosting tours and such or be released from active duty.

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Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple View Post
As for the Neuroi, when you get down to it, from what's shown in this series at least. It seems the humans fired first. Neuroi came down from the sky, and were fired upon, as a result they fired back. They could of just been coming to say hello, but got shot at instead
Yeah sure and the proper response to a few errant bullets is of course genocide... Also the Scrin only wanted to come party with us (Tiberium is really Scrin Glow Sticks) until we fired at them with our Ion Cannons and ruined everything and the Shivans are just trying to say hello via our preferred communication method of hot plasma!

More seriously though IIRC background from other sources show this is not the case and they more or less blitzed out of the Caspian on a genocidal crusade in 39.
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Old 2008-09-19, 16:25   Link #1085
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I think we will get the witches from the first season again. SW is too popular for them to take some risks.

And maybe they will have canon yuri pairings to make Japanese viewers even happier.

Maybe later they can also have a spinoff series about the witches from the novels.
The guys at /u/ said some interesting things about the characters in the novels.
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Old 2008-09-19, 20:27   Link #1086
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Originally Posted by Kimura sensei View Post
I think we will get the witches from the first season again. SW is too popular for them to take some risks.

And maybe they will have canon yuri pairings to make Japanese viewers even happier.

Maybe later they can also have a spinoff series about the witches from the novels.
The guys at /u/ said some interesting things about the characters in the novels.
way to bait the anti-yuri !! XD

....and japanese viewer aren't the only one to want this btw....

*get shot*
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Old 2008-09-19, 20:29   Link #1087
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Edit: wtf preorders for the set with Eila's cards sold out....
If you mean the first volume LE then CDJapan have a "Few Left in Supplier Stock".
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Old 2008-09-19, 20:34   Link #1088
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I'm guessing that Neuroi aren't hive minded

there are factions that want to wage war on mankind and occasionally there are factions that want to initiate talks

Kinda like humans, actually
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Old 2008-09-19, 20:34   Link #1089
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You seem to have forgotten Anime Rule #3:

Rampant lesbianism needs no excuses.
what is #1 and 2
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Old 2008-09-19, 21:51   Link #1090
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Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
I'm guessing that Neuroi aren't hive minded

there are factions that want to wage war on mankind and occasionally there are factions that want to initiate talks

Kinda like humans, actually
Given that Yoshika was allowed into the hive, and got out again unmolested, the one who wanted to talk must have had approval from a majority. Assuming, of course, that you're correct, which we lack the information right now to prove.
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Old 2008-09-19, 21:54   Link #1091
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I think the novel may have a different word with you...but dont know if we are allowed to talk Light Novel here.
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Old 2008-09-19, 22:02   Link #1092
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Some people have been... Toss it in a spoiler tag and give a warning that it's from the novel and you'll probably be fine.

(Note "probably" means that I can't guarantee anything, given that I'm not a moderator and I don't tend to keep track of the stuff they remove from threads here...)
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Old 2008-09-19, 22:08   Link #1093
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Originally Posted by asaqe View Post
I think the novel may have a different word with you...but dont know if we are allowed to talk Light Novel here.
I know what you're talking about, but we still aren't sure whether the neuroi act as a collective hive, or are individualistic.
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Old 2008-09-20, 00:59   Link #1094
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was it me or the action which yoshika took out the core is taken as reference from a zero kamikaze attack on battle ships?
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Old 2008-09-20, 04:05   Link #1095
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
Yeah sure and the proper response to a few errant bullets is of course genocide... Also the Scrin only wanted to come party with us (Tiberium is really Scrin Glow Sticks) until we fired at them with our Ion Cannons and ruined everything and the Shivans are just trying to say hello via our preferred communication method of hot plasma!
It wouldn't be the first time a simple mistake caused a war. Earth v Mimbari from B5, started cause earth forces killed a single man, and led to almost the total annihilation of humans. Only reason it didnt was cause of the whole soul swapping thing.

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I know what you're talking about, but we still aren't sure whether the neuroi act as a collective hive, or are individualistic.
I'm more inclined to think it's a bit of both, much like how the Silvers in Heroic Age had a hive mind, but could also act individually.
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Old 2008-09-20, 07:01   Link #1096
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple View Post
It wouldn't be the first time a simple mistake caused a war. Earth v Mimbari from B5, started cause earth forces killed a single man, and led to almost the total annihilation of humans. Only reason it didnt was cause of the whole soul swapping thing.
The man in question was more or less there president and it was portrayed as a complete and hideous overreaction the shame of which many are still living down decades later. The humans also violated there territory first and fired first for sure. That’s not clearly the case here the novels seem to make it clear that they neuroi attacked first rampaging out of an area near the black sea without any real provocation we know of. I’m personally inclined to think the neuroi as a whole are either an engineered army for some other power or simply highly aggressive and xenophobic as a species for the most apart.

Going back to B5 the Minbari actually attempted to make peace after a bit, but this was sabotaged by a third party. They also did communicate with each other even if that communication was always hostile. The idea that if the Neuroi gave two shits about really talking or that it was a misunderstanding, but haven’t held out even a single olive branch in half a decade is a stretch.

If they really wanted to talk they could have figured out how by now IMO.

Quote:
I'm more inclined to think it's a bit of both, much like how the Silvers in Heroic Age had a hive mind, but could also act individually.
Then they aren't a hivemind, hiveminds by definition aren't individuals. You might have some kind of collective consusniess or mental links, but if individuals can have there own thoughts to themselves it's not a hivemind IMO.

Think about it like this a Supercomputer can have hundreds of processors running in pararell, but it’s still one computer. On the other hand a hundred computers linked by a network could share some data, but would still be considered individual computers in the end. New Cylons are a decent example of the later they clearly individualistic, but if they chose they can also receive some data from a sort of species wide network.

Even this is debatable though after all it’s possible they lack any sort of linked mind and merely communicate quickly via unseen methods for instance they could “talk” with radio waves as we talk with sound waves. This might explain the communications problems somewhat it's vaugely possible human radio gear isn't complex enough to understand there signals though why they can't convert them to intelligible audio themselves would be a serious question mark. This is vaugely supported by them apparently producing strange radio waves and signals when active in some parts of the series.
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Old 2008-09-20, 11:29   Link #1097
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You've just proved my point Tk.

Leaving aside the LN's, since very few anime follow their source totally. Look at the evidence given in the anime.

It starts with the Neuroi arriving, humans fire first. Neuroi reacts and starts the genocide.

Yoshika meets a Neuroi and peaceful contact is made, but it's sabotaged by the renegade and the warlock, resulting in the fighting continuing.

I'm not saying that i'm right, what i'm saying is that it's a possibility, going on the evidence given in the anime.

As for the Hivemind, not true. While i9t's true Hivemind does usually stifle individuality, it dosent do it always. Look at the Silvers from Heroic Age, those are a hive mind, but at the same time they were able of individual actions. There are other examples as well, David Edding's Belgraid has a hive mind as well, though the person there has individuality.

The only one i can think of like you're describing is the Borg from Star Treck, but even there some of them have individuality, the Borg Queen's.

I'm hoping there's another series since there are a load of questions left unanswered in this one.
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Old 2008-09-20, 13:32   Link #1098
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple View Post
As for the Hivemind, not true. While i9t's true Hivemind does usually stifle individuality, it dosent do it always. Look at the Silvers from Heroic Age, those are a hive mind, but at the same time they were able of individual actions. There are other examples as well, David Edding's Belgraid has a hive mind as well, though the person there has individuality.

The only one i can think of like you're describing is the Borg from Star Treck, but even there some of them have individuality, the Borg Queen's.

I'm hoping there's another series since there are a load of questions left unanswered in this one.
I'm just hoping for another series. Questions unanswered or not.


I don't think they're hiveminded, basically 'cause to be a hivemind, a central guiding intelligence is a must. In essence, one mind. Episode 10/11 proved that.

Edit: Shiroi Hane > Good to hear!
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Old 2008-09-20, 13:33   Link #1099
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Originally Posted by Tiamat's Disciple View Post
You've just proved my point Tk.

Leaving aside the LN's, since very few anime follow their source totally. Look at the evidence given in the anime.
And with this you're arugement has already fallen apart the Novels and the Anime are not separate things so you can't "leave them aside."

Quote:
It starts with the Neuroi arriving, humans fire first. Neuroi reacts and starts the genocide.
Acutally it starts with them rushing headlong into human occupied land with intent to purge you mean.

Quote:
Yoshika meets a Neuroi and peaceful contact is made, but it's sabotaged by the renegade and the warlock, resulting in the fighting continuing.
Perhaps or it was merely stringing her along to try and gain information.

Quote:
I'm not saying that i'm right, what i'm saying is that it's a possibility, going on the evidence given in the anime.
And I'm saying that going on allot of the other evidence it's EXTREMELY unlikely.

Quote:
As for the Hivemind, not true. While it's true Hivemind does usually stifle individuality, it dosent do it always
A Hivemind implies a collective whole where individuals do not exist and there is a single unifying intelligence. Once you break this up and give individual members there own thoughts it ceases to be a Hivemind.

I’m picky about this kind of thing though as I often see these terms and buzzwords tossed around far to liberally with little thought as to context.

Quote:
. Look at the Silvers from Heroic Age, those are a hive mind, but at the same time they were able of individual actions.
Then they aren't a Hivemind IMO I've said this like five times now. Hiveminds and individual intelligence and actions do not get along if you've got the later you don't have the former, not in the true sense of the word at least.

Quote:
There are other examples as well, David Edding's Belgraid has a hive mind as well, though the person there has individuality.
Then it also isn’t a Hivemind IMO.

Quote:
The only one i can think of like you're describing is the Borg from Star Treck, but even there some of them have individuality, the Borg Queen's.
The Queen is actually not an individual, but rather the single personification of the entire collective, or that’s what canon says.

What I’m describing though is acutally extremely common in Science Fiction not least among anything that looks vaguely insectoid. Like Tyranids for instance there is no such thing as a member of the Tyranid race that doesn’t want to eat you face, your dog, and your planet. The entire race is utterly unified and devoted to one goal: Eat everything. Another aspect of this is that they actually can't function alone at all if deprived of there link to the greater whole of there species they basically cease to function. THAT is a Hivemind, but once you get into any kind of sitatuion where individuals can defy the group and function on there own you're no longer a Hivemind. Basiclly if they can function on there own without the connection to the rest of there race they aren't a true Hivemind in my view, but rather a networked intelligence or group mind.

Take say Ghost in The Shell for instance people can "dive" the net and even share thoughts, but they remain individuals. Although admittedly it plays with these kinds of questions quite a bit and indeed asks what defines individuality when one can share thoughts, but in the end the characters more or less maintain there individuality despite this connection and so aren't a hivemind or even really a group mind.

Quote:
I'm hoping there's another series since there are a load of questions left unanswered in this one.
That much we can agree on.
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Old 2008-09-20, 14:02   Link #1100
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There are two ways to approach an anime ... as a stand-alone piece of story; or as an adaptation/retelling of the source material.

The first way ... you ignore the source material: what is the anime story telling and is it doing it well. Some adaptations tell quite a riveting story (LOTR the movies which succeeds for most people).

The second way ... how well does the adaptation convey the source material? Does it capture the key plot points and characterizations of the story without too much damage? Again (LOTR the movies which fails at some key plot points).

Notice how I used the same movie and, imo, it succeeds in one filter but has some spotty fails in the other filter?

If the anime Strike Witches succeeds in getting more people to buy the source material and other paraphenalia -- then it is a successful adaptation as far as the anime industry is concerned. People who loved the source material will find a lot to chew on. People for whom Strike Witches the anime is their first exposure --- may go on to read the books.
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