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Old 2013-03-06, 19:19   Link #1
NoemiChan
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The Sabah Conflicts

This thread will discuss primarily regarding the conflict that is happening in Sabah between the Malaysia and the Royal Army of the Sultan of Jolo that began on late February when an alleged 200 armed group of the RASJ appeared and camped in Lahud Datu, Sabah.

If I'm not mistaking, the initial objective of the RASJ was the right to settle in Sabah believing they have the right to do so since they "own" the property in the first place and that Malaysia is paying them P75 thousand per year when the fact is that the area is earning $75 billion per year.

The bloody conflicted started when both group claims that the other started the firing.

Currently, 41 is said to have died in both sides with Lahud Datu captured by Malaysia. The RASJ continues to resist in areas inside Sabah. The Philippines request "maximum tolerance" from Malaysia for negotiations to continue but based on the news, its seems Malaysia has no plans of negotiating claiming that Malaysia is just protecting it's country. Meanwhile, the brother of Sultan Jalul Kiram III swear never to surrender and demand that UN intervene.

For the background of the conflict, North Borneo Conflict, 2013 Lahad Datu standoff

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Avoid flaming. Thank you.
Subjected for furthur edition, by concern MOD or thread starter.

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2013-03-06 at 23:29.
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Old 2013-03-06, 22:23   Link #2
Azuma Denton
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My question is, why now?
From what i heard that Sultan Jolo is residing in southern Philipines now right?
Does he not get any cake from that negotiation between MILF and Philipines governement?
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Old 2013-03-06, 22:27   Link #3
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^That could be very well the case.
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Old 2013-03-06, 22:52   Link #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
My question is, why now?
From what i heard that Sultan Jolo is residing in southern Philipines now right?
Does he not get any cake from that negotiation between MILF and Philipines governement?
Thank you for opening that. This is what our President doesn't know.

Muslims in Mindanao is not that united in IMHO, MILF is composed of Maranaos and Maguindanaos of Eastern Mindanao only. They forgot the MNLF, who represents the major tribe in Western Mindanao, our kinsmen the Tausugs where the Sultan supposedly the head. The two faction is like Russian and US having a Cold war with no bloodshed.

During the past negotiations, the MILF seeks Malaysian's help while the MNLF seeks Libya.

The Sultan who lived peaceful felt ignored during the negotiations with the MILF by the government during the creation of the new autonomous region. What he wanted now is simply reside in Sabah.

IMHO, the MILF as well has no fix central leadership, her sub commanders are rebellious doing insurgency in Eastern Mindanao.

The MILF seeks independence while the MNLF seeks equality.

Fact, most of the Sultan's security forces were former MNLFs.

Last edited by NoemiChan; 2013-03-06 at 23:18.
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:21   Link #5
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I doubt this will turn out even remotely well for Sultan Kiram's faction.
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:27   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
I doubt this will turn out even remotely well for Sultan Kiram's faction.
I fear the worst. If our President continues to insist in jailing the Sultan's forces when the return back will not help...

Come to think of it, who the hell will be wanting to return back home after the Department of Justice tells them to "Return back home so we can arrest you..." It's ridiculous.
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:31   Link #7
Azuma Denton
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Well, the fanatic Indonesian support Sultan Jolo because they feel they share the common enemy. (Ganyang Malaysia movement)

I believe that this conflicts will end soon in 2-3 weeks.
200 people is futile against one whole army of Malaysia.
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:35   Link #8
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@GenjiChan I'm not familiar with this whole thing, or prisons in general but "come back here so we can put you in jail" sounds better then "stay there and get bombed to death".
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Old 2013-03-06, 23:41   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
Well, the fanatic Indonesian support Sultan Jolo because they feel they share the common enemy. (Ganyang Malaysia movement)
Really? Anyway, I feel that the Malaysians disliked the Filipinos residing in Sabah for the fact is a lot of complains have been said by most deportees claiming they're being mistreated by Malaysian police.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
I believe that this conflicts will end soon in 2-3 weeks.
200 people is futile against one whole army of Malaysia.
If the Philippine continues to block entry of Sultan sympathizers to Malaysian.. I agree with you. But I doubt most of them will surrender, I think they're willing to fight to the death, IMHO....
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Old 2013-03-07, 02:54   Link #10
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The latest news.
Some of Malaysian police in Sabah found mutilated. King Sulu's men is suspected.
Wow, that escalated quickly...
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:00   Link #11
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Is it wrong or inappropriate of me to think "oh no, this could be Palestine all over again" regarding this matter?

Also, correct me if I appear ignorant, but could it be that the Malaysian government just went and bombed the Sulus because they don't want to risk a prolonged conflict lest it attracted other countries (like, say, Americans)? The Sulus already did make appeal to the UN if I remember right.
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:08   Link #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Is it wrong or inappropriate of me to think "oh no, this could be Palestine all over again" regarding this matter?
Palestine ? No. But Malaysia is in for trouble. Or at least, Barisan Nasional.

And why is this happening just before election ?
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Old 2013-03-07, 03:10   Link #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
Is it wrong or inappropriate of me to think "oh no, this could be Palestine all over again" regarding this matter?
Well, this Kiram guy seems to be basically a self-proclaimed Sultan, and the Sulu Sultanate aren't even remotely a government, unlike the Palestinian National Authority. The PNA actually administer some areas, while the Sulu Sultanate doesn't look like it's even a thing anymore, what with how there's no real agreement on who the legit sultan actually is.

So uh, not really the same thing.

Last edited by Shyni; 2013-03-07 at 03:34.
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Old 2013-03-07, 04:11   Link #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
The latest news.
Some of Malaysian police in Sabah found mutilated. King Sulu's men is suspected.
Wow, that escalated quickly...
Well there's unconfirmed reports of atrocities being performed by the Sultan's men. (Since they are unconfirmed I wouldn't list them here) I guessing that the Malaysian Police and Army will not be in any mood for talks after that.
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Old 2013-03-07, 04:23   Link #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shyni View Post
Well, this Kiram guy seems to be basically a self-proclaimed Sultan, and the Sulu Sultanate aren't even remotely a government, unlike the Palestinian National Authority. The PNA actually administer some areas, while the Sulu Sultanate doesn't look like it's even a thing anymore, what with how there's no real agreement on who the legit sultan actually is.

So uh, not really the same thing.
I was thinking more along the line of how some foreigners claiming land on a state, with Malaysia as Palestine, but yeah, it's a stretch of a comparison I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD
Well there's unconfirmed reports of atrocities being performed by the Sultan's men. (Since they are unconfirmed I wouldn't list them here) I guessing that the Malaysian Police and Army will not be in any mood for talks after that.
The Malaysian army bombed them already, I'd say that's enough to incite some anger in the Sulus to do that mutilation.
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Old 2013-03-07, 06:12   Link #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
The Malaysian army bombed them already, I'd say that's enough to incite some anger in the Sulus to do that mutilation.
Well when you killed 5 policemen who are on duty from a proud country, you should expect them to drop bombs on you, whether it is necessary or not.

And this isn't just armed thugs from the M16 gang, these are guerillas who have been trained to fight government forces. Technically, they are considered an army with the guns and training they have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azuma Denton View Post
The latest news.
Some of Malaysian police in Sabah found mutilated. King Sulu's men is suspected.
Wow, that escalated quickly...
That is pretty desperate; they really earned their classification as insurgents. This is not going to be pretty.
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Old 2013-03-07, 07:00   Link #17
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There is a real possibility that the ruling government is behind this in order to look good and heroic for the coming election. Some of us are of the opinion that Anwar could also be the culprit. Either way, the timing is too sudden.
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Old 2013-03-07, 07:21   Link #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUAHAHAHAHAHA View Post
There is a real possibility that the ruling government is behind this in order to look good and heroic for the coming election. Some of us are of the opinion that Anwar could also be the culprit. Either way, the timing is too sudden.
I actually hate to do this but as a neutral but proud Malaysian, I had to disagree with your conspiracy theories, if they qualified as. More importantly people actually died this issue should never become a political propaganda for both sides.

If Mexican separatists invaded Texas just because of their "historical claims" and I don't think they would be as lucky as those in Sabah. They had given at least three weeks to leave the area but they refused but instead it was them who made the first move instead. I don't think you can wait for three weeks to let a thief who crashed your home to go back home unharmed.
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Old 2013-03-07, 07:22   Link #19
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Anyone knows how had been the conducts of our "Sultan" here before this event ?
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Old 2013-03-07, 07:37   Link #20
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Another Malaysian here and trust me, I don't give a shit about this issue. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention to piss the graves of both sides but I rather not to discuss this issue on the internet, especially forums like this one. There are chances that most of its posts in this thread are Malaysian government-bash than anything else.

Of course Malaysia is the biggest Iran influence in SEA and I not surprised if USA wants losing party lose in order to erase any Iranian influence.
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