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Old 2008-10-13, 22:56   Link #361
Ledgem
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Join Date: Mar 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO View Post
oh, i certainly understand how serious an addiction can be,

But if a person who is aware of his or her own body limit and can master the art of moderation, then the dangers of a nicotine addiction is already 2/3 the battle conquered.
You may be right. The trouble is that you're still approaching this from the standpoint of an obsessive habit, rather than an addiction. Moderation is what you do when you're limiting how many hours of anime you watch, or how many hours of videogames you play per day. Unless you're keeping your smoking to extremely infrequent intervals, you can't moderate away an addiction. There's a good chance that your body will react very favorably to the intake of nicotine, in which case you may feel the desire to take in more of it. It's likely your intake will jump during times of stress, when you have less ability to moderate yourself and your body will naturally be desiring nicotine intake as a stress reliever. Whether that happens or not, the addiction will become apparent when you try to remove the substance from your body completely.

Know your own limit? That's the biggest joke I've ever heard of. For certain there is likely a level of exposure, whether it's through time, concentration, or both, that is required for the body to develop an addiction. I guarantee that this varies from person to person and that people are unable to tell when they're addicted. Don't try to tell me otherwise unless you can tell me honestly that you believe that the hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of currently addicted smokers had the intention of developing an addiction?

Quote:
The worse they would suffer from a nicotine only addiction is financial difficulty, that i believe any hardcore anime otaku *guilty cough*, cosplayer, gamer, WoW/EVE player, custom PC builder *guilty cough*, or Gambling addict would be familiar with.
Re-read Solace's account of his withdrawal symptoms, and go ahead and Google it for yourself. You do not understand addiction. Armed with your false beliefs, you are the most vulnerable to becoming an addict. It is not an insult. Please be careful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
What I ask on nicotine addiction has less to do with the degree of the addiction than with the effects of it. How much damage can nicotine cause to your body? Can it seriously do more damage than alcohol?

If you ask me, alcohol is worse than nicotine on multiple levels, because it not only has a stronger physical effect, but also affects your behavior and increases your tendency to get violent (as opposed to, say, pot which also affects your behavior but hardly makes you any more violent).
Nicotine is a stimulant. It has a calming effect, it is detoxified in the liver (but this shouldn't produce added strain to the liver as far as I know), and then there's this snippet from Wikipedia on it:

Quote:
Nicotine has very powerful effects on arteries throughout the body. Nicotine is a stimulant, speeding up the heart by about 20 beats per minute with every cigarette; it raises blood pressure, and is a vasoconstrictor, making it harder for the heart to pump through the constricted arteries. It causes the body to release its stores of fat and cholesterol into the blood.

Nicotine has been speculated to increase the risk of blood clots by increasing plasminogen activator inhibitor-1, though this has not been proven. Plasma fibrinogen levels are elevated in smokers and are further elevated during acute COPD exacerbation. Also, Factor XIII, which stabilizes fibrin clots, is increased in smokers. But neither of the two previous effects have been shown yet to be caused by nicotine, [4] If blood clots in an artery, blood flow is reduced or halted, and tissue loses its source of oxygen and nutrients and dies in minutes.

Peripheral circulation, arteries going to the extremities, are also highly susceptible to the vasoconstrictor effects of nicotine as well as the increased risk of clots and clogging.
As far as I know it isn't considered to be a dangerous substance on its own, and even with the above information there isn't a direct link between nicotine and heart or circulatory issues. What that information boils down to is that nicotine does cause your body to work a bit harder for no particular reason. If a person is subjected to this additional wear-and-tear over a long period of time I'd imagine that an issue could develop, or a pre-existing issue could be made worse. That's merely speculation on my part; I don't study nicotine.

And yes, you caught an error in what I typed. I've corrected it - thank you for pointing it out. My girlfriend was talking to me at that point and I was doing my best to multitask. Didn't do so well I suppose
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Old 2008-10-31, 02:49   Link #362
m-mitten
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I really can't stand the smell of cigarettes. At all. The headaches and the nausea I get from just being around it for a few minutes is pretty annoying, too.

I do love the smell of Tobacco by itself, though. It reminds me of my grandpa.
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Old 2008-10-31, 03:22   Link #363
Spectacular_Insanity
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
As far as I know it isn't considered to be a dangerous substance on its own, and even with the above information there isn't a direct link between nicotine and heart or circulatory issues. What that information boils down to is that nicotine does cause your body to work a bit harder for no particular reason. If a person is subjected to this additional wear-and-tear over a long period of time I'd imagine that an issue could develop, or a pre-existing issue could be made worse. That's merely speculation on my part; I don't study nicotine.
Um, sorry to burst you bubble, but yes it is. The block of text you just quoted is good support. *Proof* of anything is hard to come by, but correlational studies cannot be so idly dismissed out of hand. Not to mention, nicotine is not really that strong of an addicting chemical. It's nowhere near the levels of substances like say, morphine or heroine. Then why is it so hard to quit? The answer is because it's more of a psychological one, not a physical one. Yes, a smoker does obviously suffer from withdrawl symptoms when they try to quit, and some relapse (this reaction is called negative reinforcement - the reason for many addicts, not just smokers, is not always to get high but rather to avoid their sometimes debilitating withdrawl symptoms). The habit forming is all in the mind, really. Psychological studies have indicated that the environment plays a big factor in addictions, as well. I'm not sure of these studies as of pertaining to smoking, but I don't see why the same principles cannot be applied here.
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Old 2008-10-31, 13:25   Link #364
Kakashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Um, sorry to burst you bubble, but yes it is. The block of text you just quoted is good support. *Proof* of anything is hard to come by, but correlational studies cannot be so idly dismissed out of hand. Not to mention, nicotine is not really that strong of an addicting chemical. It's nowhere near the levels of substances like say, morphine or heroine. Then why is it so hard to quit? The answer is because it's more of a psychological one, not a physical one. Yes, a smoker does obviously suffer from withdrawl symptoms when they try to quit, and some relapse (this reaction is called negative reinforcement - the reason for many addicts, not just smokers, is not always to get high but rather to avoid their sometimes debilitating withdrawl symptoms). The habit forming is all in the mind, really. Psychological studies have indicated that the environment plays a big factor in addictions, as well. I'm not sure of these studies as of pertaining to smoking, but I don't see why the same principles cannot be applied here.
I think Ledgem was trying to demonstrate the difference between an addiction and an obsession. In short - what makes smoking even harder to quit than, say, a compulsive desire play games, is the added physical craving. In the essence though, you're right - everything is down to willpower and is therefore physchological. I'm actually of the opinion that an internet obsession is perhaps worse for the individual than a smoking addiction - simply because it can consume so much time and ruin a person's life at a far earlier age than a smoking addiction.

Important things like family, occupation or school tend to take a backseat as the person gets more involved with his online persona. Whether it be on instant messenger, facebook, chatrooms or forums. They create an escape for themselves instead of dealing with their real life problems, choosing a temporary relief. That in turn snowballs into a dependance not dissimilar to a drug addiction; the person anticipates the next time they get to be online, even becoming irrational when they're not. That loss of touch with reality is an easy trap to fall into, especially for a teenager. A smoker can still be successful in life, but can the same be said for an internet addict? And is sitting in front of the computer all day much healthier than smoking a few regularly? With the exception of chain smoking, I don't think so. Obesity isn't favourable either.

It might sound like I'm defending smoking but that's not the case. Any addiction of any kind can be detrimental to one's mental and physical health. To live life to the fullest, it's best to stay in control and not lose yourself.

Last edited by Kakashi; 2008-10-31 at 16:16.
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Old 2008-10-31, 16:23   Link #365
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectacular_Insanity View Post
Not to mention, nicotine is not really that strong of an addicting chemical. It's nowhere near the levels of substances like say, morphine or heroine.
Your comparison is similar to saying that the earth is actually pretty small when you compare it to something like Jupiter. That's purely relative - the Earth is still rather huge. So yes, morphine and heroin are highly addictive - much more so than nicotine. It doesn't mean that nicotine isn't addictive.

You also draw on psychologic reasons for addiction. I don't disagree with them. However you do realize that being chemically addicted is not exclusive to psychological addictions, don't you? I would categorize a chemical addiction as one where you suffer physical symptoms of withdrawal - your body undergoes stress due to not receiving the chemical and you experience physical discomfort/pain as a result. When you try to quit smoking, you're facing not only the psychological (habitual) element but also the element of the chemical addiction.
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Old 2008-11-01, 04:29   Link #366
BOOKGLUTTON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Your comparison is similar to saying that the earth is actually pretty small when you compare it to something like Jupiter. That's purely relative - the Earth is still rather huge.
there's no such thing as definitive measure, and what you both used said were opinions anyways. back to smoking.
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Old 2008-11-01, 11:33   Link #367
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by BOOKGLUTTON View Post
there's no such thing as definitive measure, and what you both used said were opinions anyways. back to smoking.
Actually, there is a definitive measure: "addictive" and "not addictive." Spectacular_Instanity is attempting to downplay the addictive factor of nicotine by comparing it to more highly addictive substances. This does not mean that nicotine is not addictive. That nicotine is chemically addictive is an absolute fact, not just my opinion.

While Spectacular_Instanity may not be a smoker himself, the reasoning he employed is typical of what I've seen in this thread from smokers attempting to justify their habits. I am not willing to let people fool themselves into thinking that what they are doing is OK or harmless simply because greater harms exist.
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Old 2008-11-01, 14:56   Link #368
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Meant sizing of objects. But yes, I am aware of what you have said.
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Old 2008-11-01, 16:00   Link #369
Knight Of Zero
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A question for those who smoke before, stuff that u can only learn from experience which is Y I'm asking because I don't smoke and NEVER WILL(I'm afraid to) when u try to quit smoking do u sometime feel "I need it" or something like that do u feel that u are being control by the drug?
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Old 2008-11-01, 16:33   Link #370
BOOKGLUTTON
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Oh my god, I'm sorry that question is...like every day of health class. Literally, the only comparison I can think of is having an eyelash right in your eye and trying not to get it out.
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Old 2008-11-01, 20:35   Link #371
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
A question for those who smoke before, stuff that u can only learn from experience which is Y I'm asking because I don't smoke and NEVER WILL(I'm afraid to) when u try to quit smoking do u sometime feel "I need it" or something like that do u feel that u are being control by the drug?
Once you get used to it, it's like being hungry and craving for food. Yes, it's that addictive.

However, it's not like you will become addicted just by trying it out. I quit for a whole year after smoking for 14 months. But there are several elements that enhance the addictiveness--and I'm afraid those elements matter a lot (social situations, pressure from commercials, stuff like that).
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Old 2008-11-01, 22:05   Link #372
Mei19
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Good luck, Smokers!

Spoiler for eat breakfast first XD:
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Old 2008-11-01, 23:24   Link #373
GuidoHunter_Toki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Of Zero View Post
A question for those who smoke before, stuff that u can only learn from experience which is Y I'm asking because I don't smoke and NEVER WILL(I'm afraid to) when u try to quit smoking do u sometime feel "I need it" or something like that do u feel that u are being control by the drug?
I don't smoke anymore, but it took me almost a year to will myself away from it. It was terribly addicting for me and several of my friends have been trying to quit for years and only 1 has been able to succesfully do so. When I was at the height of my addiction and I'd try to go without a cigarette for even 2 days I'd get real emotionally distressed. Sometimes if someone would try to talk to me I'd suddenly lash out at them for no reason. It's really hard to get over, but I'm just glad I quit before any severe damage was done to my body.
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Old 2008-11-01, 23:50   Link #374
Shadow Kira01
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Funny thing, I don't think tobacco addiction is real. It is entirely possible to smoke cigarettes and quit whenever you want. (^_^)
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Old 2008-11-02, 06:57   Link #375
Echoes
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Originally Posted by Mei19 View Post
Good luck, Smokers!
How mature. Gloating at other peoples' suffering. Do you walk up to people in wheelchairs and dance, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Funny thing, I don't think tobacco addiction is real. It is entirely possible to smoke cigarettes and quit whenever you want. (^_^)
I don't see how anyone could be this ignorant, so I'll assume this is some sort of joke.
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Old 2008-11-02, 07:18   Link #376
othera
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Originally Posted by m-mitten View Post
I really can't stand the smell of cigarettes. At all. The headaches and the nausea I get from just being around it for a few minutes is pretty annoying, too.

I do love the smell of Tobacco by itself, though. It reminds me of my grandpa.
lol...

Being near smokers makes me instantly feel sick, tabacco on its own though smells quite nice.

I hate smokes, tried one when i was like 12 or something hated it and never had another since.

Also i grew up with a lot of smokers (mother 2 sisters and all their friends) and from what ive seen, it's a waist of time, costs LOTS of money dammages health and the benefits are from what ive seen, nothing.
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Old 2008-11-02, 08:22   Link #377
Eggs in a Bottle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m-mitten View Post
I really can't stand the smell of cigarettes. At all. The headaches and the nausea I get from just being around it for a few minutes is pretty annoying, too.

I do love the smell of Tobacco by itself, though. It reminds me of my grandpa.
Cool, the smell reminds me of my grandpa too

Too bad tobacco is what eventually did him in too.

Also, I don't have a problem with occasional real cigars, those are like fancy cars. But daily cigarette smoking? Haha you've got to be kidding.
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Old 2008-11-02, 15:36   Link #378
BOOKGLUTTON
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Originally Posted by Shadow Minato View Post
Funny thing, I don't think tobacco addiction is real. It is entirely possible to smoke cigarettes and quit whenever you want. (^_^)
Wow, I don't know if you're trolling or not. Either way, it ends up with me disliking you. Either for being ignorant, or trolling.
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Old 2008-11-02, 16:26   Link #379
Solafighter
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Old 2008-11-03, 17:15   Link #380
Mashda2k6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Michiru View Post
Actually, it takes about 5-10 before you truly start to get addicted to them.
5-10? No way?

Let me tell about my situation: I smoke when we chill/hang around with friends or drink or so...I have done this on/off smoking thing ...somedays I might smoke 1...some weeks/weekends I might smoke like 20, some days I dont smoke at all/some weeks neither, some days I smoke 2-4 ciggarettes etc etc...Anyway I've done this thing for like 4-5 months and yet I don't feel an urge to smoke if I don't forexample smoke for a week...(never tried to be a month without but I'm sure I could do it without any addiction symptoms ;o)

edit: estimate: like 150+ ciggarettes I think~

Last edited by Mashda2k6; 2008-11-03 at 17:30.
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