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Old 2008-05-23, 11:13   Link #61
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Why not? Anyone who picks up a habit thats not only addictive but deadly, while getting no real gain from it is a idiot.
Thank you, sir, for just calling me an idiot.

Quote:
I don't hate smokers, I hate people who are too weak to think on their own.
Don't know quite what to say about this phrase either. I don't know if the usual posters who know me here would say that of me
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Old 2008-05-23, 12:26   Link #62
DonQuigleone
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I think overly impressionable teenagers seem to pick up smoking and realise it too late. Maybe they ban nicotine? Force them to make cigarettes without nicotine in it, and only allow nicotine infused cigarettes if you have a prescription from your doctor saying you're addicted. That way teens won't get addicted, this all hinges on the ability to remove nicotine from a cigarette of course. That said why don't they just make cigarettes with Grass (no not marijuana...) or something instead of tobacco. It's not like cigarettes taste good, they mostly sell for their "cool" image.
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Old 2008-05-23, 13:33   Link #63
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wervy View Post
Why not? Anyone who picks up a habit thats not only addictive but deadly, while getting no real gain from it is a idiot. These same people would probably wack themselves over the head with a crowbar if someone "cool" did it. They are just sheep, people who cant think on their own so they try and latch onto some image that society has thrown at them.

I don't hate smokers, I hate people who are too weak to think on their own. Sure, smokers fall into that category, but so do drunks, druggies, scene kids, or even religious zealots. There is no reason why a person would take up smoking outside of trying to be like or to impress others.
I'm going to interpret that as people who take up the habit NOW, knowing what we know about smoking, you characterize as idiots.

However, all human beings have weak moments so sweeping generalizations that overlook peer pressure, community norms, stress factors, and such simply condemn the entire species.
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Old 2008-05-23, 13:42   Link #64
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
honestly, do what you wanna do. The fumes that come out of cars are more harmful than cigarette smoke and we breathe in car fumes on a daily basis and in high dosage if you live in a heavily populated city. Life is short, do what you want, granting that its in no way shape or form a good habit, its a terrible habit, but don't let others dictate your decision. If you're smoking, quit because you want to, not because someone is telling you to. Its a lot easier to quit when you're doing it out of your own resolve.
Where did you hear that car fumes are more harmful than cigarette smoke? I'd never heard it before and I'm initially led to disagree. Generally, the only toxic material you hear of coming from cars is carbon monoxide. There are a number of other pollutants from diesel vehicles, and of course both vehicles release particulate matter into the air (which isn't exactly good for your lungs). On the other hand, there are emission regulations and cars are equipped with catalytic converters and such to reduce emissions and/or convert them into a less harmful form. Cigarettes have filters, but who are the filters protecting - the smoker, or the second-hand smokers? I don't believe there are emission standards for cigarettes, either, and I'm not sure how effective the cigarette filters are.

It's also debatable as to whether we receive more exposure to toxins from cars than from cigarettes. The output from both is quickly dispersed into the air to the point that what we breathe in is relatively little - usually. The difference is that cars generally aren't puffing their exhaust in your face along the sidewalk, nor are they releasing exhaust in-doors.
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Old 2008-05-23, 14:23   Link #65
Mystique
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oooh, i've seen various smoking threads in forums spiral way outta control, since people tend to be on either extreme sides of it.
I personally am on the extreme side of 'against' but i think we got enough worked up people in here already without me getting involved.

All i can say is, ever since England placed the 'no indoor smoking' last summer, London's been a pleasure to go clubbing or hit the pubs in.
Now it's summer and i'm smelling ciggie smoke again, since people are lighting up, it's mildly annoying me, but hey thousands have quit and i got to glee a those who would be shaking in the cold over the winter, trying desperately to smoke a stick without it getting drenched in the rain.

Kinda a sorry sight to be honest...
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Old 2008-05-23, 16:33   Link #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wervy View Post
Why not? Anyone who picks up a habit thats not only addictive but deadly, while getting no real gain from it is a idiot. These same people would probably wack themselves over the head with a crowbar if someone "cool" did it. They are just sheep, people who cant think on their own so they try and latch onto some image that society has thrown at them.

I don't hate smokers, I hate people who are too weak to think on their own. Sure, smokers fall into that category, but so do drunks, druggies, scene kids, or even religious zealots. There is no reason why a person would take up smoking outside of trying to be like or to impress others.
You don't have much experience in life do you? Perhaps you should take your hatred and sweeping generalizations about "weak" people and think for yourself. The reasons people turn to such habits are often far more complex than "being cool and trying to impress others".

If there's one thing that gets under my skin more than anything else, it's someone with an unwavering simplistic and self righteous opinion about what others do with their lives.
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Old 2008-05-23, 16:37   Link #67
DonQuigleone
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Why did you begin smoking? I'll be honest and say I don't understand why people start in the first place. I'd like to know why teens start a clearly damaging habit.
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Old 2008-05-23, 17:04   Link #68
Solace
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I started smoking because I was having a very difficult day. I used to buy two small cigars and sit out with a friend to smoke them once in a blue moon to relax and talk but my friend wasn't around that day to talk to about my stresses. So in a moment of temptation I saw a pack of cigarettes behind the counter of a gas station and bought it.

My first one was rough. I probably only smoked half of it. But my daily stresses didn't stop. So it became a habit, when I got home from work at 2 am, to sit outside and have one cigarette. After a while, I started smoking more than one as an excuse to sit outside and relax longer.

Then it just became a regular thing. I knew my most of my friends and family didn't like the smoke so I never smoked around them. I don't smoke around kids, or work, or strangers (if they are moving to me and I can't get away, I put it out). Basically, the only time I smoke is when I'm traveling in my car or when I'm at home.

I've managed to quit once. I was very sick for a week and could barely eat or drink let alone smoke. After that week I realized I had no cravings for cigarettes anymore so I stopped. I was smoke free for almost a year when I had a friend come over to my house and he had cigarettes. His girlfriend had just left him so he was a wreck and he was smoking because he felt it calmed him down. Since he was chain smoking, I got tempted and spent the night smoking with him. After that, I became a regular smoker again.

I've tried a few times to quit since then but it's hard, especially after the first day. I get crabby, anxious, I feel sick and I have a very short temper. I keep wanting to do something, anything to keep my hands busy but it's never enough.

I don't smoke near as much as I used to (half pack a day now compared to one pack a few months ago) and of the cigarettes I light up most just sit in the ashtray or my hands and never reach my mouth. I guess you could call it a waste of money but that's my personal choice and I don't really enjoy people telling me what I should do with it.

I'm trying the "weaning" approach now instead of cold turkey. Because my only success was when I was terribly sick (I hope to never go through that again), I suspect that was what allowed me to get through the withdrawal's without noticing. The quitting programs never really worked for me, but I think this is.
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Old 2008-05-23, 17:47   Link #69
NightbatŪ
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k

I've been smoking for 16 years now, 14 years heavy tobacco

a few remarks here make me laugh, so I'll try to put some facts down


-you don't see any of the money you normally spend on cigs on your bankaccount at the end of the month,
you spent it on useless stuff anyway, ask any ex-smoker (who can tell you how much $$ he smoked away in his life - me about €10k)

-Unhealthy?
Less then working in an office next to a laserprinter, or getting stuck in traffic for half an hour
...difference is that you stopped smelling that long ago!

-If everyone quit smoking, governments will just start taxing other stuff
they need the money no matter what

-Smokers are proven to be cheaper in healthcare because they live a significant number of years less


-


Smoking is indeed a problem of the poor, since rich want to stay healthy to enjoy their luxury longer, poor want to "numb their suffering"


I see smoking as my only possibility to retire early
AKA dropping dead on the workfloor earlier than at 75
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Old 2008-05-23, 17:58   Link #70
Deathkillz
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I will never smoke or even try. Someone like me who is afraid of death is probably going to steer clear away from toxic substances like smoke (even people close who smokes I just tend to leave the room and return an hour later with a gas mask on so I will never even consider taking a drag of the smokey stuff). Likewise with other stuff, no amount of peer pressure can get me to do drugs and alcohol is minimal.

But I do feel sorry for those who are unable to quit. Knowing addiction firsthand, I guess it is the similar feel as when I used to play WoW (ie, you can't live without it...at first)
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Old 2008-05-23, 18:55   Link #71
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightbatŪ View Post
a few remarks here make me laugh, so I'll try to put some facts down
Facts.

I'm not really an anti-smoking crusader (dropped that addiction long ago), but I'll take on this one in their stead.
Quote:
-you don't see any of the money you normally spend on cigs on your bankaccount at the end of the month,
you spent it on useless stuff anyway, ask any ex-smoker (who can tell you how much $$ he smoked away in his life - me about €10k)

-Unhealthy?
Less then working in an office next to a laserprinter, or getting stuck in traffic for half an hour
...difference is that you stopped smelling that long ago!

-If everyone quit smoking, governments will just start taxing other stuff
they need the money no matter what

-Smokers are proven to be cheaper in healthcare because they live a significant number of years less
1) The money that you "gained" from not smoking, or more exactly not losing to smoking, *is* there. If people choose, in your anecdotal example, to spend the money on something else, then they *did* gain that something else in return.

...even if it's another addiction.

2) Less than getting stuck in traffic? Riiight. You need to post scientific sources or color me unconvinced.

3) And?

4) You also forgot to mention that because they lived a significant number of years less, they also happen to contribute to the economy almost in as many number of years less, minus the retirement time.

And I'm even being generous by applying the broken window fallacy on myself, or I would've said they would contribute to the economy in that much less time rather than almost.

So they're still waaay more expensive once you count that in.



I mean, yeah, you probably don't like people nagging you on your habit all the time, or calling you stupid, as in this thread; I can see that from talking to a few smokers on my own. But giving away these "fun points" as if they're actually valid kinda bothers me.
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Old 2008-05-23, 19:20   Link #72
yezhanquan
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Anyway, what's the cost of cigarettes like in YOUR area? In Singapore, about 7-8 USD for 20 sticks on average.
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Old 2008-05-23, 19:21   Link #73
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donquigleone View Post
Why did you begin smoking? I'll be honest and say I don't understand why people start in the first place. I'd like to know why teens start a clearly damaging habit.
Well, in my case it was a matter of peer pressure. You know, high school, teenager depression and all those... things I'd rather not go back to. After that it just simply got stuck to me, and I just couldn't let it go whenever I was around people who smoked. I also have a serious problem with tobacco fumes when I'm not smoking: I just can't bear to breathe. My throat shuts itself tight in a very sickening manner. So, the main reason why I started smoking again last year when I started university (besides peer pressure) was because the people around me were smoking all the time and I found it very hard to breathe unless I was smoking, too. I know it's a stupid reason, and that perhaps it's a justification I'm making up unconsciously, but it's just the way it is.

I have a theory that my reaction to tobacco smoke is related to my father and to my childhood but to this day I'm still not sure what is exactly the deal about.
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2008-05-23 at 19:39.
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Old 2008-05-23, 19:37   Link #74
Terrestrial Dream
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Personally I hate smoking because my dad smoked frequently and I got annoyed with it. To be honest I think I will be addicted to smoking if I start, because of this I don't want even go near a smoke.
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Old 2008-05-23, 21:27   Link #75
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o_o i did smoke weed like 3 times...it was a fun experience but i stopped ...
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Old 2008-05-23, 22:59   Link #76
bbduece
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I blame the million dollar adds that make cigarettes look cool which is killing me slowly. Hey everyone one dies eventually just smoking shaves half the time to meet our end.

It is a rumor that weed is "healthier" than tabacco. Both got chemicals that does harm. But if it makes you feel better or another excuse to hit the bong that more power to you.

We are all born to die. Cheers!


What ever we choose to spend $$ on or time on is arbutrary since importance of anything is for yourself to judge not others. What you think is "worth it" is not what the rest of world thinks (what you think is the best choice is not what others belief in - hence individuality - everyone got a mind of their own - personal choices?). FYI i think a lot crap and beliefs/etc are socially internalize.

Last edited by bbduece; 2008-05-23 at 23:11.
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Old 2008-05-23, 23:20   Link #77
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
I blame the million dollar adds that make cigarettes look cool which is killing me slowly. Hey everyone one dies eventually just smoking shaves half the time to meet our end.
The ads are only a small part of what gets people hooked. Peer pressure and other forms of exposure are probably a bit more pervasive. Hell, if you'd never seen a cigarette before in your life then the cigarette advertisements you see in magazines and papers wouldn't make a bit of sense to you. (Same thing with many of the vodka and beer commercials.)

Quote:
What ever we choose to spend $$ on or time on is arbutrary since importance of any thing is for yourself to judge not others. What you think is "worth it" is not what the rest of world thinks (what you think is the best choice is not what others belief in - hence individuality - everyone got a mind of their own - personal choices?). FYI i think a lot crap and beliefs/etc are socially internalize.
I agree with that, but only to a certain extent. The problem is that we're all on this planet together, and we're all close enough that we impact one another. If I want to listen to loud music at 2 AM then all but the soundest sleepers are going to be annoyed and not be able to get any sleep. That's irresponsible on my part and a disservice to those around me. Similarly, to those smokers who like to say "we'll die anyway, I don't care if I get lung cancer" - good for them, but I'm breathing the same air you are. If you're the type of smoker who is conscious of others around, good on you! I've been in plenty of stand-still, dense crowds where some idiots lit up. To add to that, the stench of cigarettes on a person isn't terribly bothersome, but it isn't pleasant - it's not much different to me than body odor, with the exception being that I don't find even the worst body odor to be as offensive as the worst cigarette stench.

To summarize my views on that: don't let others tell you what to do, but don't be a self-righteous prick about it. Be considerate of others. (Disclaimer: I was awoken at 3 AM today by some idiot yelling at her friend to let her into the apartment complex. I'm sure she was excited but damnit, you're surrounded by two large apartment complexes, does it not occur to you that some people are trying to sleep and that we're not living in sound-proof rooms? )
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Old 2008-05-23, 23:29   Link #78
bbduece
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
The ads are only a small part of what gets people hooked. Peer pressure and other forms of exposure are probably a bit more pervasive. Hell, if you'd never seen a cigarette before in your life then the cigarette advertisements you see in magazines and papers wouldn't make a bit of sense to you. (Same thing with many of the vodka and beer commercials.)


I agree with that, but only to a certain extent. The problem is that we're all on this planet together, and we're all close enough that we impact one another. If I want to listen to loud music at 2 AM then all but the soundest sleepers are going to be annoyed and not be able to get any sleep. That's irresponsible on my part and a disservice to those around me. Similarly, to those smokers who like to say "we'll die anyway, I don't care if I get lung cancer" - good for them, but I'm breathing the same air you are. If you're the type of smoker who is conscious of others around, good on you! I've been in plenty of stand-still, dense crowds where some idiots lit up. To add to that, the stench of cigarettes on a person isn't terribly bothersome, but it isn't pleasant - it's not much different to me than body odor, with the exception being that I don't find even the worst body odor to be as offensive as the worst cigarette stench.

To summarize my views on that: don't let others tell you what to do, but don't be a self-righteous prick about it. Be considerate of others. (Disclaimer: I was awoken at 3 AM today by some idiot yelling at her friend to let her into the apartment complex. I'm sure she was excited but damnit, you're surrounded by two large apartment complexes, does it not occur to you that some people are trying to sleep and that we're not living in sound-proof rooms? )

If that 3am incident was some random thing and not a habitual thing then i think it should be forgotten.

I hope you are someone that goes out of thier way to stop smog and general pollution - activist (also lots of chimecals being dump around habitats by corporations) since you are so adamant on this subject.

BTW anyone that does not avoid kids when smoking should be shot.
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Old 2008-05-23, 23:34   Link #79
WanderingKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbduece View Post
It is a rumor that weed is "healthier" than tabacco. Both got chemicals that does harm. But if it makes you feel better or another excuse to hit the bong that more power to you.
If you don't smoke weed (ie, use another method than that of a joint), then the harm done to your body is negligible compared to what a cigarette does to your lungs.
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Old 2008-05-23, 23:36   Link #80
bbduece
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
If you don't smoke weed (ie, use another method than that of a joint), then the harm done to your body is negligible compared to what a cigarette does to your lungs.
Yea blunts are the worst i heard.
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