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Old 2008-05-24, 19:41   Link #101
Ichihara Asako
Horoist
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
15 bucks a pack? that must be some really good cigarettes... or are you from Canada? I heard in Canada cigarettes are insanely expensive.
Naw, Australia, and this is a small corner store, so prices are a little higher than usual, but still, talking $10-15 a pack depending on brand and location, nothing under $10 as far as I've seen these days. Not that I pay a whole lot of attention other than being shocked and appalled at a $15 pricetag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Echoes View Post
The warning labels on them are huge here as well, covering like 60% of the package and warn you about everything from cancer to impotence.

Smoking is also prohibited in bars and restaurants, so the government has done just about everything in their power to discourage people from smoking.
Yep, pretty much the entire packet here now is a warning (text, and very graphic images of lung/mouth/throat cancer etc) and it's also illegal in any indoor public place now. Doesn't stop people though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irenicus View Post

Look, nicotine is physically addictive. It's scientifically proven beyond reasonable doubt. Video games aren't. They aren't sending chemicals flooding into your body and messing up your nervous system in some crazy way to force your body to demand the substance.
Indeed. Some things are physically addictive, and nicotine is one of them. Things like gaming and anime are psychological addictions and while they can still certainly be problematic (in some cases even more so) physical addiction typically trumps them. That's why various quitting schemes (nicorette, patches, gum, hypnotherapy etc) are making billions along side the tobacco industry itself.
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Old 2008-05-24, 22:54   Link #102
JustInn14
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Meh, the whole "Smoking" thing is overrated IMO. If someone wants to smoke, let them smoke. But, yeah. I don't do it myself.
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Old 2008-05-24, 22:58   Link #103
SolidState
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Age: 26
In my country, stores cannot display cigarettes at all, except when asked by a legal (18+)

Personally, I smelled tobacco leaves once when I was 13 or so, it still sticks in my mind and gave me a reason not to smoke.
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Old 2008-05-25, 04:38   Link #104
Miko Miko
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England
Age: 20
Quote:
Social smokers are a good example, they only smoke when they around friends who smoke, otherwise they don't have the urge to light one up.
That must be me then, I smoke with my friends but when I am not with them I just don't smoke.
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Old 2008-05-25, 07:53   Link #105
Miko Miko
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: England
Age: 20
Quote:
You're 14 and you smoke? Oh dear....what's wrong with you?
I know I am young.. I should not be smoking but I just do anyway..
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Old 2008-05-25, 07:59   Link #106
konstargirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko Miko View Post
That must be me then, I smoke with my friends but when I am not with them I just don't smoke.
I know right. You know better not to smoke and know what can cause for you to smoke. ><

Now in Illinois smoking is ban in restaurants now and in bches which that is a good thing. :3
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Old 2008-05-25, 09:35   Link #107
HayashiTakara
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Everyone knows how bad smoking is, its not some great mystery of the world, or some high class conspiracy. If the person choose to smoke even knowing the dangers, than so be it, mind your business. Being critical and judgemental for a bad habit just makes these anti-smokers look like hypocrites, everyone has a bad habit, its apart of being human. If everyone would mind their own business, and stop shoving ideals in each others faces the world would be a better place.

I'm a former smoker, and I don't ever regret ever smoking nor do I condemn others for smoking or preach about the "evils" of smoking. Its not my place to do so, not any of my business.
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Old 2008-05-25, 11:12   Link #108
Edgewalker
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Waste of money imo.
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Old 2008-05-25, 14:34   Link #109
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
Everyone knows how bad smoking is, its not some great mystery of the world, or some high class conspiracy. If the person choose to smoke even knowing the dangers, than so be it, mind your business. Being critical and judgemental for a bad habit just makes these anti-smokers look like hypocrites, everyone has a bad habit, its apart of being human. If everyone would mind their own business, and stop shoving ideals in each others faces the world would be a better place.
No, not everyone knows how bad it is. For example, Miko Miko is 14 and has admitted to smoking. Can she explain the physiology of the lungs to you? Can she explain how cancer works? Depending on your walk of life, can you do that for me? You don't need to be a medical specialist to determine whether it's OK to smoke or not, but just saying "uh, I heard it's bad for your lungs and you can't breathe as much and maybe you'll get cancer, which you might die from, but we all die anyway..." does not constitute an informed decision in my mind.

Then there's also a bit of a philosophical problem. The majority of us in this discussion are very young. I've heard of countless old people saying how when they were young they thought they were invincible, they thought they had all the time in the world. Their revelation as they became older was that it was important to take care of their bodies, and they wish they had more time because they realized that life was too short. Many people picking up smoking do so when they're young ("young and stupid" if you want the cliche term). We all feel that we're invincible, and that we don't care if we take off five, six, even ten years of our lives. While I recognize that not everyone takes on the views of older people that I've stated above, I do worry that many people are short-changing their futures. It's their choice, but how informed a choice can they make, really? Most people are barely thinking ahead to next year; how can you be so cavalier about saying you don't mind taking years off your life?

As for minding your own business, I think you owe it to those around you to speak up. If one of my friends disappeared and suddenly wasn't coming out of his apartment for months because he was playing videogames non-stop you can bet I'd say something. That activity may be his choice, but it has a negative impact on his life. As a friend (or a decent person) you owe it to them to at least try to help them out. Videogames are a light example - what if one of your friends wanted to start into cocaine, or heroin? By your reasoning we should just let those people go and do what they want. Even if they risk overdosing in a year due to serious addiction, it's their choice to end their lives early, right? Even if they go broke over their addiction, it's their choice as to what to spend their money on, right?

I disagree - we should step in before people lose their lives to addiction. I don't presume that we always know what is better for someone than they do, but it is absolutely not true that we always do what is in our best interests. So tell me, are cigarettes a product that are in someone's best interest? As an addiction they're not as serious as cocaine or heroin, but what are the benefits of smoking? Aside from getting to brag to your friends like an asshole about how you're cutting your life short and you don't care or getting to pretend that you're so cool, the only real benefit that smoking offers is stress relief. It's a valid use, but there are a lot of other methods of stress relief that don't require you to pay loads of money, risk an addiction, and harm your health. To be fair, there's a theoretical second usage, and that is to connect with other people (hence the phenomenon of "social smoking"). Again, there are a lot of other ways to connect with people that don't involve the sacrifices required by smoking.

As I see it, the negatives of smoking outweigh the positives. The addiction is real, as is the monetary sacrifice. The sacrifice to one's health varies from person to person - you're gambling either way. Knowing all of that, I think that a person is making a very bad decision whenever they take up smoking. I'm not suggesting that we take control of their lives to prevent their smoking, but we should at least step in and find out why they want to smoke, ensure that they understand the complications as best as possible - in short, do everything we can to prevent them from making the choice to smoke. The choice will always be theirs.

Quote:
I'm a former smoker, and I don't ever regret ever smoking nor do I condemn others for smoking or preach about the "evils" of smoking. Its not my place to do so, not any of my business.
You're also only 25. You're a bit young to be living with regrets, as am I. You're a former smoker who hasn't made a mention of the withdrawls and has also made a parallel between psychological addictions and smoking, which indicates to me that you either didn't smoke heavily, didn't smoke for a long time, or you were one of the damn lucky ones who didn't suffer withdrawl.

Smoking isn't evil, but the tobacco companies are certainly questionable on the moral scale. I brought this up in a past post before this thread was revived by being merged with a new smoking topic, but did you know that Coca Cola used to have trace amounts of cocaine in their drink? Nobody realized it, but it created a bit of an addiction in people, who linked that addiction with Coca Cola. That is brilliant marketing, to have people physically hooked to your product such that after they have it a few times they'll feel uncomfortable without it or with anything else.

I consider it to be wrong, from a moral standpoint. You're risking the health of your consumers, but you're also essentially forcing them to buy your product. How would you like it if every time you went to the store someone came up with a gun to your back and demanded that you buy a certain product? With an addiction, the company doesn't need to hire a thug to do that - your body does it for them. It is unethical. If cigarettes were simply something that smelled bad and harmed your lungs, then fine - just because a person can blast their stereo and go deaf while annoying everyone around them doesn't mean we ban stereos, and there'd be no need to ban such a non-addictive version of cigarettes. That addictive factor is a real problem. Don't downplay it.
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Last edited by Ledgem; 2008-05-25 at 15:53. Reason: Logic statement fixed
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Old 2008-05-25, 16:32   Link #110
klowny
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Join Date: May 2007
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the funny thing is i always tell people to smoke, not that i smoke myself but it does make you look cool
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Old 2008-05-25, 16:50   Link #111
Kakashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klowny View Post
the funny thing is i always tell people to smoke, not that i smoke myself but it does make you look cool
Only for movie stars and Midou Ban
Everyone else is just trying to look cool but they have no real reason to smoke. The reason cigarettes came to be was to relieve stress. Can't be telling me that those chain smokers are stressed out 12 times a day every day for a good 40 years...really people are being manipulated. I don't find that cool, at least not with the knowledge we have now.
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Old 2008-05-25, 16:58   Link #112
klowny
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Join Date: May 2007
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this comic makes it cool
Spoiler for smoking is cool!:


but seriously i wouldn't want to smoke or begin (can't afford cigarettes),i don't pay attention to smokers because thats what they want to do and i can't stop them
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Old 2008-05-25, 17:27   Link #113
oompa loompa
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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Age: 24
well like many people above have said, i dont know what the big kick people getting out of smoking... tobacco that is lol. i cant say that other smokeable substances are quite as boring
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Old 2008-05-25, 18:00   Link #114
Reckoner
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
I don't respect smokers, point blank. Bash on me if you want, but I do actually lose respect for you if you smoke. Same if you are a binge drinker, same if you do a bunch of other stupid acts in life.

Now I won't necessarily go out and say to people you should be forbidden from smoking, personally if you want to go and kill yourself like that, your choice. However if you are a friend or a relative of mine, I will not condone it.

I liked Ledgem's post as he said this, but if you are looking for a way of stress relief, of socializing, or anything else (Even if you had a death wish), there are far better ways you can achieve it. The whole idea is irrational, in every way unless you actually want to get TB or something and have a shorter life.

And if you want to die by doing drugs, good, do me a favor and rid yourself from the gene pool.
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Old 2008-05-25, 20:40   Link #115
HayashiTakara
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Friends and family are another story, although my defination of friend may be different from yours and anyone else. And withdrawl isn't that bad, it last a week at best, the first day or two is the hard part, but its easily remedied if you keep yourself distracted. Going on vacation is the best way to stop smoking or visiting a parent who hates smoking. If after that period of time and you get home and pick up a pack out of the habit of stopping by your local corner store for a pack, then that means you yourself want to continue smoking, the act of doing it, the sensation of deep exhale and inhale. Then so be it, nothing else is the blame but yourself.

Everyone has bad habits, and one of them is at least self destructive. So judging someone on something as simple as this makes you a hypocrite plain and simple.

Do kids ever thought it was cool? When I was a teenager and younger, I never heard anyone talking about smoking, or peer pressuring me into smoking (I grew up in NYC) maybe its location? I hear suburban areas are more prone to having kids doing stupid shit than urban areas like new york.
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Old 2008-05-25, 22:16   Link #116
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HayashiTakara View Post
And withdrawl isn't that bad, it last a week at best, the first day or two is the hard part, but its easily remedied if you keep yourself distracted. Going on vacation is the best way to stop smoking or visiting a parent who hates smoking.
That's an interesting method of overcoming withdrawl that I hope may help others to kick the addiction. Could you tell us what your symtpoms of withdrawl felt like, as well?

Quote:
If after that period of time and you get home and pick up a pack out of the habit of stopping by your local corner store for a pack, then that means you yourself want to continue smoking, the act of doing it, the sensation of deep exhale and inhale. Then so be it, nothing else is the blame but yourself.
I disagree. This reminds me of a story where a surgeon couldn't fix a medical issue despite multiple surgeries on this one patient and eventually started to blame the patient, who then became depressed. When a person is sick, addicted, or any of that, you don't blame them, especially if they're actively trying to get better. I'm actually surprised that you would say such a thing, given that you've been very big on posting how it's important not to judge others. To say that a person should have been able to overcome the addiction, that it isn't difficult, and that if they're at it again they can only blame themselves sounds pretty harsh to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner
I don't respect smokers, point blank. Bash on me if you want, but I do actually lose respect for you if you smoke. Same if you are a binge drinker, same if you do a bunch of other stupid acts in life.
As a child, I felt very similar. I used to make statements like "all smokers deserve to die!" without thinking much beyond my initial dislike for the act of smoking, due to the litter, the smell, and the negative health benefits.

With more life experience I realized that it isn't always right to lose respect for the person themself. People experience times of weakness, and until I experienced a brief period of weakness two years ago I'd always thought that you had to be especially weak to fall into things like smoking, drugs, or any of that. When people experience hardship or intense pressure they cling to something, anything that will make them feel better, make them feel like they're getting better, or give them a way out. It's funny, because even the tiniest, most ridiculous things can take the form of a savior. Unfortunately the more stereotypical items find their way onto people's lists: cigarettes; drugs; alcohol.

The people who turn to smoking are truly being taken advantage of. Even when their life smooths over and they no longer view cigarettes as a savior, they're likely going to be stuck. I truly feel sympathy for these people, because a small portion of their life has been made a slave to the tobacco companies. It isn't right.

How about the kid who thinks smoking is cool, or does it because of peer pressure? Surely this person is deserves disrespect and ire for being a fool, no? I don't think so, personally. I am very big on people taking responsibility for themselves and their actions (I don't feel that enough people do it these days), but I don't know that teenagers are fully capable of making that decision and understanding the implications of their actions. Even if you tell them that they may get cancer and suffer addiction, the consequences are lifetimes away for them, perhaps even beyond their understanding. Even if they truly don't care for their own life they're probably not thinking that they may be on their deathbed 20 years earlier than their wife or husband; they may be shortchanging their children from spending more time with them, or from getting to go on athletic activities with them. Even adults have a hard time foreseeing or accounting for things that far into the future, how can a teenager be expected to do the same? But by the time they begin to realize that they want to avoid those types of scenarios, it's too late - the damage has been done, the addiction is fully set in. All they can say is that they didn't know, and it's a tragedy, rather than justice being served.
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Last edited by Ledgem; 2008-05-25 at 22:29.
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Old 2008-05-25, 22:23   Link #117
ApostleOfGod
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Join Date: Sep 2007
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There's a law in my country right now (Canada) that's supposed to prevent people from starting to smoke. What they're doing with the new legislation is now, convenience stores cannot have a display of all the cigarette packs, so the buyer has to ask for specifics. I'm not sure if it's a great obstacle, but I think it's a big leap towards a smoke-free environment.

I'm pretty sure this has been mentioned...




*Off-topic*

Someone has my Chicken avatar! I just saw it on this thread...
There can only be one...


Mine, called it.

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Old 2008-05-25, 22:30   Link #118
Echoes
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It's just not that easy for the vast majority of smokers. I've seen a lot of it first-hand, as my father smoked for 20 years, and he had a lot of trouble finally quitting 5 years ago.

Look, if it was as simple as just quitting with a bit of willpower, people simply wouldn't be addicted.

I do think the peer pressure issue varies greatly from group to group, I never experienced any of it, but I don't think it was a coincidence that all the "coolest" girls in my junior high class happened to smoke. In some instances, you might even be looked down upon if you smoke, resulting in a reverse effect. I think that'd certainly be the case for me if I started smoking around the people I usually hang around with.
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Old 2008-05-25, 23:03   Link #119
ApostleOfGod
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I'm no revolutionist, but smoking and "cool" don't go well together. It's soft how kids think that way these days.

Anyone can smoke. Not everyone can choose not to and resist. Hence, we have smokers. In High School, yeah you're respected by your crew or stoners or whatever, but in reality, it's just soft. Because anyone can do it. Doesn't prove anything. People get cake (money) to get baked (high) to..

Too tired to get into this lol ~~ Gnite~~
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Old 2008-05-25, 23:17   Link #120
Reckoner
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 22
I posted here expecting people to disagree with me (Person called me immature and ignorant, I don't really care what you think).

I'm not saying all smokers should die Ledgem, I said if you actually have a suicide wish, then I don't care if you want to kill yourself. But I get what you're saying anyways.

I don't respect people who can't resist the action as much as those who do. It doesn't mean I'll treat them like dirt, and it doesn't mean I can't be friends with them, it is just something that I would look down upon if I knew said persons.

My point is that I don't think people generally want to die, I don't think people generally want shorter lives just so they can socialize more or w/e, and I don't think having things like cigarettes around helps those people who fall into weak moments like you mentioned. This is why we should try and help people stay away from this, we shouldn't act like its "ok" or that it is "cool."

A couple side notes:

A scary trend in teenagers my age is actually the fact that a lot of people just do all these things like drugs just for the hell of it.

I largely disapprove of the cigarette industry. The U.S. government only legalizes drugs that are made by white people. Either legalize all drugs or none at all, cut the crap is all I have to say.
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