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Old 2009-08-03, 14:12   Link #441
nanafan
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i am halfway through the second episode. this show is pretty interesting so far. hard to remember everyone names and stuff though.
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Old 2009-08-04, 10:33   Link #442
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I definitely wasn't expecting such an ending for poor Battler. But I loved every bit of it.

And Kumasawa happily offering everyone Halloween treats after the First Twilight...

Can someone clear up what exactly Battler's conditions for victory against Beatrice are? He seems to have quite a few.
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Old 2009-08-04, 11:16   Link #443
Jan-Poo
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Battler's victory conditions are:

"finding a human (non magical) explanation for EVERY mystery in EVERY game"

If Beatrice cannot counter, she loses and Battler wins. But as long as even a single mystery remains unsolved, Battler can't win.

Beatrice victory condition is only fulfilled when Battler completely accepts the fact that Beatrice, witches and magic exist and that only with them every mystery related to Rokkenjima can be solved.
It appears that just him admitting witches exist is not enough, as long as he doesn't really and honestly believe so.

On Battler victory conditions: It isn't necessary "by rules" that he finds the truth, but since Beatrice's red sword of truth can destroy any lie, it is practically inevitable that only by finding the truth Battler can win
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Old 2009-08-04, 11:55   Link #444
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Thanks.

Also, are the events seen from Battler's or Meta Battler's POV accepted as the things that actually took place?

At first, I was under the impression that Beatrice and Meta-Battler had an omniscient view of what was going on in Rokkenjima but I find it hard to believe that he'd deny Beatrice being a witch and her magic after seeing the events that took place in Jessica's room and in Natsuhi's room unless he just wanted to be stubborn.
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Old 2009-08-04, 12:05   Link #445
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The reliability of Battler's POV is debated, but most believe he's the only one who's really reliable because he never witnesses a magic event. Ep2 ending is seen as an exception. Some say it doesn't count because Battler was drunk, some say it doesn't count because it is after midnight of october 5.

As for Metabattler, it is believed that Beatrice can make him see whatever she wants. Of course we enter in the field of anti-mystery VS anti-fantasy here. So determining if what we see is true or false is the very core of this story
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Old 2009-08-04, 12:20   Link #446
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I woulod wait a bit to give an answer to that, since that is explained in the next Episode.
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Old 2009-08-06, 01:31   Link #447
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My memory is betraying me. After watching the episode 7's preview i just can't remember this thing.

Spoiler for Question:
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Old 2009-08-06, 01:40   Link #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magicberyl View Post
My memory is betraying me. After watching the episode 7's preview i just can't remember this thing.

Spoiler for Question:
She got mad at Maria talking about Halloween and the occult to everyone in the garden, which Rosa thought was embarrassing.
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Old 2009-08-06, 20:41   Link #449
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Hi guys... I was sick with an MC and I thought I would use the time to actually finish it... which I did...yesterday.

I will admit that I was tormented by the magical events(especially the epilogue) until the salvation
Spoiler for lots of them:


Finally, by the time the last three were killed, that's were I stop thinking... I could not no longer explain the incident with human tricks.

Interestingly, by the time I finish the game (with the epilogue) it was 11.55pm... that was darn close. Had it been 12 am, I would definitely freak out. Anyways any thoughts and comment on my opinion?

Last edited by sora1412; 2009-08-06 at 20:53. Reason: typo
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Old 2009-08-06, 20:48   Link #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferthepoet View Post
Just finished reading Umineko episode 2 as well as episode 2 tea party and ???

and I have the following observations:

1. Have anyone else noticed that in the tips Kumazawa is not described as furniture created by Kinzo as Shannon, Kanon and Genji are...... I think there might be some significance to this
As quoted from the game itself, Kumasawa may have worked at Rokenjima for sometime but she is only a part-timer. Naturally that would not have made her a "furniture".
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Old 2009-08-16, 08:21   Link #451
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I just finished EP2 yesterday, and wow, it confused me. XD The "closed rooms" in this game were much harder to try and figure out....and:

Spoiler for Theories, questions about the first twilight - ending opinions.:
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Old 2009-08-16, 19:49   Link #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chii Kei View Post
I just finished EP2 yesterday, and wow, it confused me. XD The "closed rooms" in this game were much harder to try and figure out....and:

Spoiler for Theories, questions about the first twilight - ending opinions.:
Spoiler for gah... spoilers?:
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Old 2009-08-30, 01:36   Link #453
Nadeor
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So I saw this post about the ending of EP2 a few days ago while fooling around Baidu (A site sorta resembles a chinese 4chan)
And I decided to translate it and post it here...it's too god-damn freaking hilarious

Spoiler for [Help]Can't get through the final stage of EP2:


...I think this is a great way to introduce the TV Anime gang to the game...
This is only the first 30 posts of that thread, and appearently a few idiots downloaded the game because of this (Ryukishi would be proud).

What do you guys think?
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Umineko no Naku Koro ni EP5: ...??

Accumulating 07th point -.-
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Old 2009-08-30, 07:26   Link #454
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Wow pure madness! Way to troll people XD

But now after this and after that flash game I really hope they will make and action game based on rosa musou like they did with higurashi-daybreak.
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Old 2009-08-30, 12:20   Link #455
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Just finished Ep.2! ...Shit, that ending was EXTREMELY disturbing. I'm going to credit the banquet entirely to the fact that Battler was drunk because I honestly want to reject and gloss over that in its entirety.

I only started playing Umineko on Friday, but I've been so absorbed that I've taken to playing all night these past few days. Friday night I finished Ep.1 at 4:00 am, and I finished Ep.2 last night at 3:00 am. I was positively freaked out of my shoes at the time, because not only did I have to play while passing midnight, in the very early hours of the morning, there's nothing but dead silence and creaks in the hallway to ignite the imagination and send fearful wonderings into one's brain.

But on a humorous note, during Ep.1, I was at the part where the golden butterflies start appearing more frequently... and out of the corner of my eye, I see a wing fluttering, just out of sight. I'm not imagining it, either. Starting to feel a little uneasy, I turn slowly, and see a huge moth has invaded my room, and is dancingly fluttering around the lightbulbs in the ceiling, as moths are prone to do. But as one can imagine, to me who had just been reading about golden butterflies wisping into the darkness in throes of uneasiness moments ago on the screen, upon seeing the moth bathed in the lightbulb's fluorecent light, and looking a... deceivingly golden hue, I unknowingly let out a shriek vaguely reminiscint of the words 'Beatrice', 'golden' and 'butterfly' and sprint out of the room in a panicked state. It was only after I calmed down enough to peek back in that I was able to regain my composure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sora1412 View Post
One, like most people would suggest, by sneaking into Maria's room and steal the key OR two, by having the door opened before handing the key to Maria, thus creating the illusion that it was a closed room from the beginning.
Option 2 can't be possible, though, because Rosa found the door locked. If the culprit had done this, they would have been able to open the door, but they certainly couldn't have locked it again. In this case, you also can't use the 'they never left the chapel' excuse because they would have had to leave at sometime to give the key to Maria. Even if they opened the door with the key, gave it to Maria, returned to the chapel's open door, slipped inside with the bodies, set up the table and locked the door from the inside (assuming no servants caught them, or anything) then we'd get into Battler's argument that they were still hiding in the chapel when Rosa's group of Merry Men found the bodies. But then, of course, where were they hiding, and how did they get out, because Rosa locked the door behind her when they left, and when George, Shannon and Gohda later investigate, they find no signs of entry/exit for them to use, let alone that have been used. At this point, I don't think there's nearly enough information to prove how any of the other locked room situations could have been successfully achieved, because there's always the blaring question of how did they get out of the room after they were locked inside. If it was Beatrice's butterflies, she could transport through the door, but after seeing Battler's drunken stupor at the end of Ep.2 and being thoroughly dragged around by Beato like that, I really don't want to accept the validity of that possibility, either. Right now, I have a tendency to think that the windows might be somehow involved, because all of the locked rooms have a door in the window, and while the door is always heavily scrutinized, the window is usually glossed over just because it's locked from the inside. It's the same as the door, but surely, if it underwent heavier investigation, some holes could be found in its impenetrable glass? If there was some way to exit the window and then lock the window from the outside, (maybe with fishing line as Battler suspects while in Purgatory; the seven stakes only rejected this possibility when it pertained to the DOOR?) this situation would be entirely possible and would work for all the closed rooms succeeding the chapel. Well, in any case, we'll have to see what the next Episodes tell us.
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Old 2009-09-03, 11:59   Link #456
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Just finished Episode 2 an hour ago and obviously I'm impressed as with Episode 1. Sad to say, I wasn't even trying to solve the closed room mysteries! I gave up and surrendered to fantasy long ago.

I'm amazed that Battler has yet to back down even after so much, and was actually cheering when he came to rescue Rosa. Even though I don't support his argument, it's still touching to see his persistent endeavors. And about Rosa, I don't know anymore! My sympathy for her kept going up and down throughout the game, and I don't know how I feel about her anymore. Her theories were undoubtedly crap, but her final scenes in the real world managed to win me over, I think. Well, contrary to how I felt in the beginning of this Episode, I now think that Rosa is rather suitable for this 'sentinel' job like Natsuhi was. At least, if she stops being suspicious of everything...

And now I'm sad. Bern has to battle against two witches by herself. Then again, playing a game of chess against two players shouldn't make much of a difference. That is, if they aren't witches...

As of now, absolutely no regrets on getting this game.
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Old 2009-09-03, 14:34   Link #457
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Yeah, two witches against one, is really unfair.
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Old 2009-09-10, 22:44   Link #458
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Well, Kinzo himself just answered all the mysteries to this game.

6x9=42
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Old 2009-09-10, 22:50   Link #459
Diedrupo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Battler's victory conditions are:

"finding a human (non magical) explanation for EVERY mystery in EVERY game"

If Beatrice cannot counter, she loses and Battler wins. But as long as even a single mystery remains unsolved, Battler can't win.

Beatrice victory condition is only fulfilled when Battler completely accepts the fact that Beatrice, witches and magic exist and that only with them every mystery related to Rokkenjima can be solved.
It appears that just him admitting witches exist is not enough, as long as he doesn't really and honestly believe so.

On Battler victory conditions: It isn't necessary "by rules" that he finds the truth, but since Beatrice's red sword of truth can destroy any lie, it is practically inevitable that only by finding the truth Battler can win
So what happens if Battler's game piece accepts the witch? I noticed that in EP2, game piece Battler accepted the witch but the survivors didn't go to the golden land because Rosa did not (until the tea party that is).
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Old 2009-09-11, 01:34   Link #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diedrupo View Post
So what happens if Battler's game piece accepts the witch? I noticed that in EP2, game piece Battler accepted the witch but the survivors didn't go to the golden land because Rosa did not (until the tea party that is).
It wasn't just Battler's game piece that seemed to accept the witch, meta-Battler also seemed to have lost the will to fight. While Beato was tortuning Rosa, Battler reappeared and said he has regained the will to fight.

Did he ever completely lose the will the fight?

Beato's thoughts after he regained his will to fight were:

Quote:
......Th, ...this person, he gave up in the depths of his soul, and supposedly surrendered to me...

......I see, he doesn't know when to give up, just what I'd expect from Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandson...! So the chick of a phoenix is a phoenix after all...!
Did she expect for him to completely lose the will to fight?
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