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Old 2007-12-31, 20:27   Link #21
chison
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excuse of my english...

for me,i do like simpson and feel OK with American cantoon(as a cartoon,for a laugh),
but,South Park, The Simpsons ,micky mouse, priness ,Sponge Bob ,have to much Western-style add in it ,which is artisticly friendly...to kids
come to a points where now all the western-charater not human(creature)
so ,kids cannot be any charater themselve!,so no one hate any charater ...

it also lead to a point ,if their want to talk deep-love,the W-style don't allow them to do anything harmful(to kids)

but i do think "the last airbender" going into a good direction for american TV,they really did well...the story plot is something that a teenager can talk to their parents(a good example to make anime more acceptable for their parents to accept anime,which means ,more people go downs into the anime art field to starting to change something ,stand for something for themselve...)
japanese old anime used to be good old positive just like this
althought japan starts with more love story!
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Old 2007-12-31, 20:47   Link #22
solomon
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Admittedly, a big thing that draws people to anime is it's storytelling.

I personally like it overall cause it's different, doesn't necessarily mean "better".

The sitcom or episodic format is perfectly fine, but normally there has to be a lot of unique elements within a concept, or it must reinvent itself. Like the simpsons, the stretches between 90-93 and 93-99 show unique differences in writing style and tone, (first part is more low key regular sitcom/very character based, second part more irreverence/plot or gag or comedy craft based) but still was high quality. Particularly dramatic shows. American cartoons have never done show at the frequency that Japan has.

All in the Family is an example of the show that had many unique elements to it that broke mold at the time as did Seinfield, it just takes a lot of different ideas and spins (within a certain restraint to keep from "betraying a shows original spirit" or "getting played out") to make it work. I don't begrudge hollywood for that if they do it right.

Also, I say anime cliches are just as bad as cliches in pop storytellling of any format. And theyre rife with cliche ridden shows, sometimes overhyped ones too. But every year, you manage to see a Tv cartoon that reaches out past anime's little confined world and subcultre and bring something new to shake things up a bit.

Stuff like Chevalier d'eon and Ghost Hound and Eva and Bebop and Champloo and Paranoi Agent. Historical based pieces (good or bad) earn praise for digging into a countries history and culture (Kenshin, Otogizouchi, Ayakashi Ayashi).

And animation, well that's different. The best Japanese Animation in terms of visuals (and this is a very select few folks) in a way are more interesting then those I've seen animated for american television. They have limited animation that can have very controlled tight drawings that are expressive. They've surpassed us in the use of cinematography and staging. They can have excellent design work. We could too, but we are hampered by our subcontracting system and bad management.

Character animation that is worthy of praise can be really hard to find but it's there and boy is it interesting. Animation around the world shares principles but the japanese (when they actually make good animation) use old principles very differently. It's due to the past nature of producing animation for tv under tight budgets and influence from manga that yields the interesting rare unique character animation. (Normally nerds call stuff like that "sakuga" anime)

You know that "sakuga" term what I and wao used to gab about? Go to Dailymotion and YouTube, type in sakuga and you'll see what I mean. Only thing that compares is Ren and Stimpy (YES, IM SERIOUS, especially when John K. was working on them) and certain episodes of Disney and Warner Brothers televison cartoons.

Anime is QUITE inbred still, but American Animation is inbred and timid, unable to take more risks more often. But Hollywood only takes risks when they are confortable, that's how it's been scince forever.
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Old 2008-01-01, 04:52   Link #23
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Well I'm not sure what MY opinion is but I can roughly summarize the world's opinion. There are so many anime out there that were dubbed into English yet there are so few American cartoons that were dubbed to Japanese. Besides from sitcoms, I can't think of any others that were dubbed into other languages, yet I can think of many famous American dubs for anime in the span of five seconds. That's enough in my opinion to generalize that no one (else) cares much about American animation.
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Old 2008-01-01, 11:00   Link #24
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Well I'm not sure what MY opinion is but I can roughly summarize the world's opinion. There are so many anime out there that were dubbed into English yet there are so few American cartoons that were dubbed to Japanese. Besides from sitcoms, I can't think of any others that were dubbed into other languages, yet I can think of many famous American dubs for anime in the span of five seconds. That's enough in my opinion to generalize that no one (else) cares much about American animation.
Well of course Disney movies usually have an international release. And let's not forget their influence on the early series.

Off the top of my head I've seen X-men, Boondocks, Avatar, Beast Wars, and Mighty Morphing Power Rangers dubbed into Japanese. There's also their adaption of the Powerpuff Girls. And I hear Tom and Jerry is still very popular over there. The rest of the world I'm not sure of.

Though I will say their are a number of European animations I've seen that don't get the recognition they deserve internationally so I would hardly rate popularity for quality.

Last edited by Royal_Devil; 2008-01-01 at 11:15.
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Old 2008-01-02, 14:41   Link #25
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i grew up with the old school cartoons of Hanna Barbera and other good manifactures such as Mainframe, Disney and Marvel
but as i have to say, the cartoons shown now are no longer original if you ask me...

the plots are the same.. the methods are just a little different..
Skyhawk machines look like the flying versions of Biker Mice from Mars and that is just a small example..
there are so many shows focussing ont he old, build up tension, something goes wrong, something goes wronger, something is solved and we laugh about it with a joke... seriously after 10 years i grew tired of that... id rather have something with a decent story line that has some development...

okay now i am not saying that all cartoons are bad fromt he west, i love avatar because of the story line and the fact that it actually developes..
other than that, i found fairy odd parents hilarious because it is so comical together with spongebob and danny phantom, but danny phantom gets an average because at some point the jokes and basic plot gets to you..

in the current age, in my country cartoons fromt he west get dubbed (well yeh where dont they do it nowadays) but even still the type of shows are just.. uugh plot wise and designed.. overly wrong.. racoons fighting over who gets the most trash? ooh where has this world come to..
but i guess what annoys the worst si lack of development.. anyone who watches a show nowadays, except for a few then, can pick up and know the basic storyline... and it stays a basic storyline.. and that is what si annoying about it all.. the ideas have been done.. character gets poisoned all the sudden there is like 'one' cure they have to get to get him healthy which always has to be turned into a potion some way or the other and it always goes wrong in the last 'lets get the cure' scene.. used in too many different series.. used too much.. now a days it is hard to find somethign really original... and i guess that is what agrivates me the most about it.. the originality is gone.. what si left is a re run of plot used in different methods.. silly events, silly storylines and silly characters which have become so over used that you can just tell from apicture who is who.. and what role that character has.. if it is either leadership and courage, or silly prankster who messes up but makes up the last second.. or the big guy who is always hungry and always seems to have a lesser role.. or the girl who ofcourse is always tough and falls in love at some point but never quite makes it to a relationship because of the reset at the end of the episode for development...

i miss those days of Beast Wars, Gargoyles, Power Rangers, X-men and of course Spider-man TAS... atleased there was development and drama in them...
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Old 2008-01-02, 14:44   Link #26
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Batman Beyond & Swat Kats were so the shit.
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Old 2008-01-02, 14:48   Link #27
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I can get a good laugh out of Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy. They are fun. As for the other cartoons they just suck. So I just watch either mentioned above or anime. ^^
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Old 2008-01-02, 16:54   Link #28
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As of now the stuff coming out of the states targeted at adults is just pure garbage. Maybe if you have the mind of a retarded 3 year old your might get somthing out of fart and jokes about people shittin themselves, but anything for sane people is few and far between.

I do like the Boondocks though
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Old 2008-01-02, 16:57   Link #29
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Originally Posted by Dxon View Post
I can get a good laugh out of Simpsons, South Park and Family Guy. They are fun. As for the other cartoons they just suck. So I just watch either mentioned above or anime. ^^
x2 ...and happy three friends
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Old 2008-01-02, 21:03   Link #30
solomon
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geh, i never understood the happy tree friends fandom. (i can find redeemable things about family guy as cheap thrills but not that)

Hmm, someone (although a tad curt on it) had a good handle on the "adult" toons. Too many "adult" toons aren't. They're for teenagers. With the exception of the Venture Bros. (which could appeal to someone over 27) and Robot Chicken (in my Aunts house, it's a "family" viewed show, heh) most Adult Swim shows are juvenile in a real bad way.
I admit to liking ATHF sometimes, but it's hardly "adult".

Shock value just for the hell of it on tv was really cool in the late 80s and early 90s, (cause we had the smarmy reagan years to deal with) but it's all over the tube now. And it's tiresome.

Personally, I think some of the best kids animation had something that parents and older folks could enjoy. Take Huckleberry Hound and Yogi Bear same thing with Rocky and Bullwinkle (like R/B better) they were clever and worked for both adult and child.

Incidentally, I don't really see the appeal of spongebob to older non cartoon nerd audiences. I could understand Rocko or Ren and Stimpy or Bugs Bunny or the Flinstones or Animaniacs.

Spongebob seems more blase, no overt pop culture references, no real note worthy innendo or real subversive jokes (especially compared to older nicktoons). It also isn't as well written or animated/designed as the earlier 90s hits were.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy spongebob but it puzzles me why older fans like it so much.
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Old 2008-01-02, 21:14   Link #31
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American made cartoon usually lack storyline and usually go for on by an episode by episode bases and sometimes related and refer back to earlier episodes like all cartoons. Animes are good, but american animation won't be dead anytime soon.
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Old 2008-01-02, 21:43   Link #32
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geh, i never understood the happy tree friends fandom. (i can find redeemable things about family guy as cheap thrills but not that)
I found Happy Tree Friends funny at first, but once the formula became obvious it lost its appeal.

Outside of the mainstream prime time comedies like The Simpsons, Futurama, South Park and Family Guy, I don't see much American TV animation. I very rarely watch any Cartoon Network anymore since the majority of stuff on it is, well, very much aimed at younger people and I couldn't be bothered going out of my way to find out what the good stuff is, and then make time in my schedule to sit down and watch it. I watch TV rarely and even when I do, I channel surf.

My opinion of Family Guy is much the same as Vexx and Deathkillz: it's hit and miss because it's so forced. Occasionally it can be rather witty, but at its worst it falls just short of hitting the audience over the head with a baseball bat and telling them: "this is a joke... laugh now plz".

I have a lot of respect for South Park, though. It can be very clever at times, but it avoids being pretentious by having a nice amount of low-brow stuff mixed in. It's incredibly consistent as well. I've only seen a very low number of episodes that I haven't found funny. And it's somehow managed to avoid growing stale over all these years (as many other comedy series tend to do), which I suspect is due to the fact that it's almost always topical.

The Simpsons isn't anywhere near as good as it was in its hay-day, but I think most people recognize this. I'm not sure I totally understand Futurama's popularity, though. There's something not quite right about it that I can't seem to put my finger on. Whatever it is, I just can't seem to find it funny. I generally walk away from most episodes saying "meh".

I wouldn't say any of these shows have great art and/or animation, though. Sure, they tend to be fluent, but the lack of detail makes them rather bland to look at. Although, in South Park's case, that's probably quite deliberate.
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Old 2008-01-03, 02:03   Link #33
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I enjoy futurama. reason it's lower tier is because it's neither witty or borne with the same "humanity" as the best simpsons episodes, nor as gutsy as south park was.

Still I think it was overall good.

Looking back I found an actual DECENT cartoon from the 80s, GASP!!! It was the Real Ghostbusters by DIC and often animated by TMS actually. I saw it in local syndication reruns but I hear it came on ABC weekends first (right after the flinstone kids and pooh bear, yech).

J. Micheal Stryacinzki (i know sp, but jeez that name) who wrote novels and Babylon 5 was a head writer and managed to give the show a couple of fun creative elements to the ghost busting stories. Plus it's really dark for 80s cartoon with overt references to doomsday and the occult in a alot of eps. It attemps to bring over the glib breezy interplay of the movies moderately well.

Overall not really cheesy at all and fairly good. Anybody see it during it's original run?
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Old 2008-01-03, 02:40   Link #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Looking back I found an actual DECENT cartoon from the 80s, GASP!!! It was the Real Ghostbusters by DIC and often animated by TMS actually. I saw it in local syndication reruns but I hear it came on ABC weekends first (right after the flinstone kids and pooh bear, yech).

J. Micheal Stryacinzki (i know sp, but jeez that name) who wrote novels and Babylon 5 was a head writer and managed to give the show a couple of fun creative elements to the ghost busting stories. Plus it's really dark for 80s cartoon with overt references to doomsday and the occult in a alot of eps. It attemps to bring over the glib breezy interplay of the movies moderately well.

Overall not really cheesy at all and fairly good. Anybody see it during it's original run?
I certainly enjoyed The Real Ghostbusters whenever the TV aired its episode every week. I missed it after I damaged the last Ghostbusters VHS tape I bought . Of course, I also enjoyed watching the X-Men for its serious story development, but since these twos had been unaired here, I dropped everything else and went for anime instead.
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Old 2008-01-03, 03:06   Link #35
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Kids Next Door? Gawd, this is one amongst the slew of cartoons my brother watches. I hate 'em. There is simply no plot in most of the cartoons airing on Cartoon Network.
Hey I find Kids Next Door pretty funny. It's essentially the world from a kid's point of view. Adults are evil authoritarians that you fight off with magically improvised weapons from your fortress of solitude. . .*cough*. . .tree house.

And it isn't a just a tree house. It's your base. In your head, it's brimming with electronics and high-tech security.

The show is basically about the perspective I had as a kid. And I find that pretty funny.

The appeal pretty much cuts both ways, whether you are young or old. It's pretty much the fantasy kids already live in. Adults will probably be reminded of their own youth and pick up some of the irony that the younglings won't. It parodies both the adult world and the world of children.

It lacks a highly linear and complex plot, but it has plenty of story.

To be blunt: There is a lot of anime that has too much of the former and none of the latter. This is a case of talking a lot without actually saying anything.
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Old 2008-01-03, 07:58   Link #36
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I enjoy futurama. reason it's lower tier is because it's neither witty or borne with the same "humanity" as the best simpsons episodes, nor as gutsy as south park was.

Still I think it was overall good.

Looking back I found an actual DECENT cartoon from the 80s, GASP!!! It was the Real Ghostbusters by DIC and often animated by TMS actually. I saw it in local syndication reruns but I hear it came on ABC weekends first (right after the flinstone kids and pooh bear, yech).

J. Micheal Stryacinzki (i know sp, but jeez that name) who wrote novels and Babylon 5 was a head writer and managed to give the show a couple of fun creative elements to the ghost busting stories. Plus it's really dark for 80s cartoon with overt references to doomsday and the occult in a alot of eps. It attemps to bring over the glib breezy interplay of the movies moderately well.

Overall not really cheesy at all and fairly good. Anybody see it during it's original run?
JMS wrote parts of The Real Ghostbusters? I'll have to find and rewatch them now.

I figured that, like He-Man and Thundercats, it would be fun as a kid but painful to see as an adult and admit I liked it.

As for American animation, I hardly watch... well, I hardly watch anything these days, be it Japanese or American, animation or live, so I don't have much in the way of informed opinions.
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Old 2008-01-03, 08:21   Link #37
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The kids anime is a load of rubbish, take Ed, Edd and Eddy; Ed eats buttered toast and gravy and keeps chicken under his chair. He also has mushrooms in his bathroom.

Last edited by Rookie103; 2008-01-04 at 06:43.
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Old 2008-01-03, 08:26   Link #38
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Americans should stop copying anime if they want to succceed like anime.

Just look to Totally Spies, Martin Mystery, Mega XLR and many other that I cannot remember their names.
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Old 2008-01-03, 11:04   Link #39
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I think I'd like to venture that maybe some people like anime better than western animation because there's the allure of something different.

and btw, cartoon network is complete trash now. Maybe foster's home for imaginary friends is redeemable. I watched a few episodes, and it's slightly demented, but it keeps good humor.
I think toonami wasn't too bad.
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Old 2008-01-03, 11:30   Link #40
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Oh yea, fosters. One of the few good cartoons on the tv. Craig McCracken and his cohorts are vets so they've got timing and gags down pat. Plus it's easily the best of those cheapo flash toons they make nowadays, the design is great.

As for the RGB, no it's not painful, it has a BIT of cheese due to dialogue, but it's managable. If your still a fan of the films, give the first 78 or so episodes a try before ABC went all ACT and shoehorned kiddy Slimer cartoons into the mix.
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