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Old 2008-01-03, 11:36   Link #41
Rookie103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neopluto View Post
I think I'd like to venture that maybe some people like anime better than western animation because there's the allure of something different.

and btw, cartoon network is complete trash now. Maybe foster's home for imaginary friends is redeemable. I watched a few episodes, and it's slightly demented, but it keeps good humor.
I think toonami wasn't too bad.
Cable is absolutely evil. 'nuff said.
Cartoon Network is broken beyond repair.
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Old 2008-01-03, 17:34   Link #42
Royal_Devil
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Originally Posted by Rookie103 View Post
The kids anime is a load of rubbish, take Ed, Edd and Eddy; Edd eats buttered toast and gravy and keeps chicken under his chair. He also has mushrooms in his bathroom.
If you're going to insult something at least get your facts straight. Double D is the smart on. Ed with one "d" is the awesome one who loves buttered toast and chickens.

Quote:
Americans should stop copying anime if they want to succceed like anime.

Just look to Totally Spies, Martin Mystery, Mega XLR and many other that I cannot remember their names.
Totally Spies and Martin Mystery originate in France actually. The anime-like look is due to the prevalence of manga there (I believe it's second only to Japan itself) and it's influence on up and coming artists there. It's like telling the anime gods of a few decades ago to not "copy" Disney.

And Megas is awesome. In a world with too many genetically superior bishies in mechs it's nice to have a guy like Coop in the pilots seat.
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Old 2008-01-04, 06:43   Link #43
Rookie103
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Originally Posted by Royal_Devil View Post
If you're going to insult something at least get your facts straight. Double D is the smart on. Ed with one "d" is the awesome one who loves buttered toast and chickens.



Totally Spies and Martin Mystery originate in France actually. The anime-like look is due to the prevalence of manga there (I believe it's second only to Japan itself) and it's influence on up and coming artists there. It's like telling the anime gods of a few decades ago to not "copy" Disney.

And Megas is awesome. In a world with too many genetically superior bishies in mechs it's nice to have a guy like Coop in the pilots seat.
Oh shit yeah, put Edd insted of Ed.
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Old 2008-01-04, 23:04   Link #44
Daughter!
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What a lot of people are forgetting (In terms of why American shows last sooo long as opposed to animes that are very short) is that the purpose for Entertainment is money, and that's it. Until nobody watches it, 'Saw' will continue for many, many, many chapters regardless of artistic merit, if there ever was any to begin with.

Personally, if Anime shows could get some decent voiceactors that I didn't cringe when listening to, fix up the dubbed scripts a bit, I'd like it a lot more. I understand American animation is falling down the tubes, especially with three dimensional animation (Which, to me, looks awful) rearing it's head. But compare animation 40, 30, or even 20 years ago to Anime now and it'll make Anime look like a 3 fps bad lip synced sham.

Last post on the first page says, "Most American shows end because interest wanes, not because the story reached a conclusion. But that's the nature of how television in America has evolved." This is totally true, in nearly every case. And it's sad really, just like it's sad to see a band sell out, and it's the same thing really. Most good things end or decrease drastically in quality when people find out you could make millions with the smallest chicken scratch on a piece of paper.

I wholeheartedly disagree with the overall consensus about Avatar: The Last Airbender, however. Mostly because the few times I've watched it, I just see most situations in the show to be mellow dramatic, mostly because I find the entire premise to be somewhat blown out of proportion.

EDIT: Has anyone noticed the increase of Western cartoons being created in Flash? I understand cartoons being made in Korea because the budget would be astronomical, but Flash is about as cheap as you could get. It's much like making a film for a million dollars (Jackass 2) and having it be number one for three weeks straight.
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Old 2008-01-05, 00:07   Link #45
Defron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie103 View Post
Cartoon Network is broken beyond repair.
Yeah, I walked in on my younger sister watching a live action show on cartoon network, I was .
I haven't seen any new stuff I like, used to watch dexters laboratory and ed edd and eddy (both of which became crap later on, but early episodes were good) and I loved Johnny Bravo. I dunno, I guess I feel the same way others who have posted in here do, american animation goes in crap-gold cycles.
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Old 2008-01-05, 00:22   Link #46
Vestus
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The only American cartoons I really liked were:

Invader Zim (just hilarious)
Justice League (so good)
Batman and Superman (just as good)
Teen Titans (man great combination of action and comedy)

That's all I can think of atm. I'm not sure if there's more or not.

Edit: OMFG, how can I forget about Avatar!!!! I guess it's because it's so good that I consider it Anime XD.
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Old 2008-01-05, 00:38   Link #47
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I've always loved Dexter's Laboratory!
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Old 2008-01-05, 11:08   Link #48
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Originally Posted by Pop-Punk Sucks View Post
What a lot of people are forgetting (In terms of why American shows last sooo long as opposed to animes that are very short) is that the purpose for Entertainment is money, and that's it. Until nobody watches it, 'Saw' will continue for many, many, many chapters regardless of artistic merit, if there ever was any to begin with.
American shows last so long is because of syndication.
Quote:
Strip/daily syndication

Off-network syndication can take several forms. The most common form is known as strip syndication or daily syndication, when episodes of a television series are shown daily five times a week. Typically, this means that enough episodes must exist to allow for continual strip syndication to take place over the course of several months, without episodes being shown again. If a small number of episodes exist, the entire run of the series can be shown in a matter of weeks. As explained by David Crane (creator and executive producer of Friends), "A show will go in syndication for sure when it has reached its 5th year or 100th episode. If a Network Show only runs for 2 years or so there is usually no demand for syndication." However, there are exceptions, such as the option is the 65-episode block (common in Children's programming), which allows for a 13-week cycle of daily showings, so there will only be four repeats in a year.
In some cases, more than one episode is shown daily. Half-hour sitcoms are sometimes syndicated in groups of two or four episodes, taking up one or two hours of broadcast time.
Sad, but true.



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Old 2008-01-05, 11:23   Link #49
Neopluto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vestus View Post
The only American cartoons I really liked were:

Invader Zim (just hilarious)
Justice League (so good)
Batman and Superman (just as good)
Teen Titans (man great combination of action and comedy)

Edit: OMFG, how can I forget about Avatar!!!! I guess it's because it's so good that I consider it Anime XD.
Doug
Batman the Animated Series
Batman Beyond
Double Dragon
Fantastic Four (I look at it now and cringe, but I really loved this show)
Johnny Quest
Rugrats
Beast Wars
street sharks (lol...)
TMNT
X-men

Maybe they're not true "classics", but I still liked these shows a lot more than what's out there now.
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Old 2008-01-05, 13:14   Link #50
solomon
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Ah, yea the Bruce Timm WB action cartoons. Excellent. The Spider Man and X men cartoons from the 90s are very good too. Although not as ambitious, I thought for an episodic series, MIB the series was very enjoyable.

Incidentilly, has anyone here seen a good portion of X men evolution? It was one of the last few good cartoons Kids WB had after the pokemon invasion, but I never watched enough of it to give a good opinion.
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Old 2008-01-05, 15:39   Link #51
JustInn14
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There's RARELY any american TV show that doesn't screw up after 2-3 seasons... No. Seriously.
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Old 2008-01-05, 15:41   Link #52
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Originally Posted by JustInn14 View Post
There's RARELY any american TV show that doesn't screw up after 2-3 seasons... No. Seriously.
Avatar doesn't screw up (in my opinion), but they also know when to end the series. They will stop after the third season (61 episodes) and will not continue and try to pull filler episodes out of their ass.
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Old 2008-01-05, 17:44   Link #53
Daughter!
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Avatar doesn't screw up (in my opinion), but they also know when to end the series. They will stop after the third season (61 episodes) and will not continue and try to pull filler episodes out of their ass.
Just because the storytelling is good doesn't mean they won't do that. When you're one of the most successful shows on a network, you don't stop because the story is over. Don't let the good story or conclusive season finales fool you, because when you're making millions of dollars, and could get more millions of dollars, you take the chance, regardless of artistic credibility.

They will not end the series until no one watches it, and it will be cancelled. Because as sad as this is, money runs Entertainment, and inspires most shows to continue doing what they do.

A writer may know when to end a series, a producer doesn't.
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Old 2008-01-05, 18:01   Link #54
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Maybe not, but they planned to end it. I guess we'll see. Even if they don't, we're not going to completely abandon it. Take a look at Rurouni Kenshin. It's well known, and often I see people telling others to watch the first two arcs then stop. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Old 2008-01-06, 03:37   Link #55
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Are they really going to end Avatar after Book 3? It would make sense to at least put out a book 4 for the air element to finish it off. It's definitely a good show imo, quite episodic at times, but entertaining non the less. I can take watching their filler which I can't say about Bleach and Naruto.

I'm actually a new fan, recently grabbed the first two complete books on DVD and looking forward to grabbing the Book 3 collection later this year!
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Old 2008-01-15, 21:57   Link #56
Neopluto
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Ah, yea the Bruce Timm WB action cartoons. Excellent. The Spider Man and X men cartoons from the 90s are very good too. Although not as ambitious, I thought for an episodic series, MIB the series was very enjoyable.

Incidentilly, has anyone here seen a good portion of X men evolution? It was one of the last few good cartoons Kids WB had after the pokemon invasion, but I never watched enough of it to give a good opinion.
I saw a few episodes, don't know if that qualifies, but I really didn't like it. I felt like it was cheap and sold out to trying to be "cool" for the next generation of watchers. A lot of the history for the characters were just completely wrong and I didn't like the overall high-school atmosphere.
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Old 2008-01-16, 11:47   Link #57
Rurik
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Well, There has been many interesting opinion regarding the topic, I have to say that in terms on quallity, when the American Animation are done good, it can go on par to some of the best Japanese Animation out there. The bad thing is that there is a lot of bad shows that comes from US. Of course I don’t know every anime out there in detail, but I don’t recall one were I felt I was getting stupid just by wathcing it.

The main problem with American Animation is censorship and to some point political correctness; until recently, anything that even suggested either violence or nudity was not really present in the show, this itself created very boring shows, imagine yourself watching a Show like Spider and His amazing friends where I cant recall seen no one punching anyone, and then jump to a show like Dragon Ball or Saint Seiya, where there were lots of punches and the story was actually not cheesy.

What Shows deserve props as the more eye catching and that any Japanese animation follower can enjoy as much? You have Batman the animated series (considered by many the best American Animated series so far). You have the Animated series of X-men, and You have Spawn animated series (a show intended only for adult viewers).

One thing you can note trough the history of American Animated series is that the best Animated series, were actually based on comic books.in other words they were not original concepts for the Anime.

I don’t include in my synopsis shows like Futurama, or Family guy or South park, because personally I don’t consider those shows as cartoon or animated series, I consider them to be sitcoms, that happens to be Animated.
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Old 2008-01-16, 12:57   Link #58
Vexx
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You're limiting your analysis of "american animation" to "superhero action series" when you say "the best Animated series, were actually based on comic books.in other words they were not original concepts for the Anime."

Looney Toons, Animaniacs, Pinky&The Brain, Freakazoid, etc were all anime-original.
Ren&Stimpy, Samurai Jack .. more recent examples.

Shows like the Flintstones and Johnny Quest were originally presented during prime-time in the evenings after dinner.

What Japanese anime delivers for me that *most* modern american animation .. and for that matter most modern american live-action television doesn't .... is:
1) a self-contained story. One that starts and finishes. Like "mini-series" used to do and mostly PBS still does when it borrows a British mini-series.
2) character definition AND evolution - which goes with not being just episodic.
3) exploring interesting *ideas* and concepts -- I'm lucky if I see such a thing on american television more than a few times a decade anymore. What are the chances of seeing a character drama like Spice and Wolf existing on american television (live or animated)? ......... bleh.
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Old 2008-01-16, 16:26   Link #59
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
You're limiting your analysis of "american animation" to "superhero action series" when you say "the best Animated series, were actually based on comic books.in other words they were not original concepts for the Anime."

Looney Toons, Animaniacs, Pinky&The Brain, Freakazoid, etc were all anime-original.
Ren&Stimpy, Samurai Jack .. more recent examples.

Shows like the Flintstones and Johnny Quest were originally presented during prime-time in the evenings after dinner.
Sorry I had a Typo , as I wanted to say “some of the best”. But the general idea was that original concepts where the ones that rather had less chance to be good. also Note that I said "until recently" as Im refering to 80's and 90's

And I’m including almost any type of Animation, but only leaving out those sic-com types given what I said in my post, I really don’t consider those to be animated series itself, series like Flintstones or Simpson or SP, whereas, Series like DuckTales, DarkWing Duck, Gi Joe, Bravestar, Ghostbusters, Thundercats, Jonny Q., for me are what you can call the ones I consider to be American Anime…but that’s just my POV.

One thing, and not to sound nitpicker, but, while Jonnhy Q. was an original character, the concept was taken from a Radio Serial.

And Animanics, Freakazoid and Pinky and the Brain had Steven Spielberg as executive producer -* You can’t really miss on that!


Quote:
What Japanese anime delivers for me that *most* modern american animation .. and for that matter most modern american live-action television doesn't .... is:
1) a self-contained story. One that starts and finishes. Like "mini-series" used to do and mostly PBS still does when it borrows a British mini-series.
2) character definition AND evolution - which goes with not being just episodic.
3) exploring interesting *ideas* and concepts -- I'm lucky if I see such a thing on american television more than a few times a decade anymore. What are the chances of seeing a character drama like Spice and Wolf existing on american television (live or animated)? ......... bleh.
Yes, that’s are the same reasons for me (I have gone in a phase where I can't recall the last time I followed a TV series), and furthermore, I’ll say that one of the reason why Super Hero Animation sometimes fills in those 3 points you gave, is because they share something similar to Japanese Animation: they are usually based on a Comic Book/Manga.
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Old 2008-01-16, 16:58   Link #60
King Lycan
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the only ones i like were
X-Men
Batman Beyond
Avatar
Boondocks
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