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Old 2008-09-11, 16:22   Link #2341
james0246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon View Post
I think at this point it doesn't really matter cause if you add up all the gaffes and other things, he can't win.
Who? McCain or Obama? Just going by basic statistics, it looks like Obama is going to win, but if McCain continues with his crazed mudslinging, then I could see McCain eventually terrifying enough people (whether due to "inexperience", "race", "war", or some other false charge) to his side to win the election.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:37   Link #2342
solomon
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I refer to Obama, as much as I support him. I am slightly pessimistic as of right now. If McCain continues to use this Palin card effective and as long as a lazy voting base doesn't want to believe that Barack is pro-american, that he is a muslim, that he "doesn't share our values" and such will result in a very close election. But ultimetly his loss.

After all the most reliable voters are very old anyways. Plus unfortunetly, I feel that as long as Barack Obama has a darker skin color, then it will be much more of a disadvantage then people are willing to admit.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:38   Link #2343
Ermes Marana
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The Republican strategy is to make the race as disgusting as possible. It doesn't matter if they get dirty too. They just want to cover the entire process in slime.

Unfortunately, this strategy works wonders.

The reason is that Democrats are more likely to get turned off by the whole process and stay home.

Obama got a lead with his message of hope and a clean campaign. The Republicans are trying to make the political process so gross that Obama supporters simply can't stand to look, give up, and stay home.

It is working. I myself am feeling grossed out and don't want to watch anymore.


Just like the saying goes:

Never wrestle with a pig... you'll both get dirty, but only the pig will enjoy it.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:41   Link #2344
2H-Dragon
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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Never wrestle with a pig... you'll both get dirty, but only the pig will enjoy it.
That's pretty sexist of you.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:41   Link #2345
OtseisRagnarok
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I don't really see the issue here,
McCain and Obama are essentially the same. They only say what they think you want to hear, but will act however they want in office. all politicians do the same things. They're moving towards the centre, but acting like they're the poles.
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:41   Link #2346
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I know. But he should have foreseen that people would associate the lipsticked pig with the lipsticked pitbull, and considering his subsequent remark, I think he did see it. Which would make the whole thing dumb, if nothing else. He should have used some other phrasing, one that didn't involve lipstick.

It was a slip…Perhaps a Freudian one, but a slip none the less...If you watch the bite again you can see him uneasily pause for a second after he says it like someone who wants to reel those words right back into his mouth…It didn’t seem premeditated in the least or he would have egged on the audience once it appeared they were clapping for what they THOUGHT he meant…Much ado about nothing IMO, but if someone is gonna vote or not vote for his presidency based on this, they should throw a Luau, barbeque that sweet-lipped pig and make a toast to their sheer ignorance…


The truly sad thing about all of this is that we live in an American Idol society where people will vote for the random guy on the street if only to keep him in the contest….Doesn’t matter if they have the talent for the job or not as long as they feel like “They’re Likable” or “Enjoyable to watch” (Realize that Obama went thru this phase of the game for the past 4 years vs. Palin’s one week of glory)…This pure gimmick (called Sarah Palin) by the Republicans has rightly or wrongly worked so far, and even without lipstick she’s bound to keep the focus off of the issues for a few more weeks or so…I give them credit because unlike the Democrats they will do whatever it takes to win (I exclude the Clinton’s who have balls to beat them at their own game unlike the rest of the party)…They’ll use the 9/11 tragedy like some Nikey sneakers, pick a radical further to the right of their own candidate--snatch her outta an igloo and call her a reformer…They’ll talk about changing Washington when that slogan didn’t exist just 1 week ago…They’re still a pig, and even with the made-up make-up hiding the last 8 years, they might just win again…
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Old 2008-09-11, 16:43   Link #2347
Anh_Minh
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2H-Dragon: No, it's racist. See, Obama's now the last to have used "pig", just as Palin was the last to have used "lipstick". Therefore, from now on, pig comments refer to Obama, and saying anything about him is racist.

At least, I'm pretty sure that's how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
It was a slip…Perhaps a Freudian one, but a slip none the less...If you watch the bite again you can see him uneasily pause for a second after he says it like someone who wants to reel those words right back into his mouth…It didn’t seem premeditated in the least or he would have egged on the audience once it appeared they were clapping for what they THOUGHT he meant…
I still say it was an avoidable mistake. It's not like he was caught by a surprise interview or anything.

Quote:
Much ado about nothing IMO, but if someone is gonna vote or not vote for his presidency based on this, they should throw a Luau, barbeque that sweet-lipped pig and make a toast to their sheer ignorance…
Your point being? A vote's a vote, whether it comes from years of observation and study or a coin toss.
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Old 2008-09-11, 17:03   Link #2348
cors8
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It's quite sad when there's a bigger debate about pigs and lipstick than compared to McCain confusing Sunni and Shiites.

Then again, it probably appeals to the voting base who don't even know the difference or that there's actually 2 branches of Islam.
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Old 2008-09-11, 17:05   Link #2349
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I still say it was an avoidable mistake. It's not like he was caught by a surprise interview or anything.
And here I thought a mistake was just a mistake...You have to have a camera shoved in your face while eating chinese food to make this mistake? Again he had a slip of the lip, and if McCain did the same I would have little to no reaction personally unless that slip was something innately racial or derogatory not on the level of a modern Anglo-Saxon axiom like the one we are discussing...


Quote:
Your point being? A vote's a vote, whether it comes from years of observation and study or a coin toss.
It's a rather simple point...If the pig-comments are the deciding factor for whether or not you vote for him, IMO you're an idiot...But much of this society are...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
It's quite sad when there's a bigger debate about pigs and lipstick than compared to McCain confusing Sunni and Shiites.
That's my point, that's why the Sarah Palin pick was a brilliant strategy for a dying campaign...The focus is now off of the issues and on to the American Idol portion of the show...
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Old 2008-09-11, 17:25   Link #2350
bayoab
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Excerpts from Gibson's interview with Palin. I really hope this really ignites a fire under Obama and the democrats. There are some epic ironic quotes here like:
Quote:
PALIN: What I think is that smaller democratic countries that are invaded by a larger power is something for us to be vigilant against.
Especially note this summary on a separate ABC page:
Quote:
On the anniversary of the worst terrorist attack in U.S. history, Gov. Sarah Palin took a hard-line approach on national security and said that war with Russia may be necessary if Georgia were to join NATO and be invaded by Russia.
The catch, as has been pointed out on a few sites, is that you cannot campaign against the VP candidate. That is a recipe for disaster.

In a wonderful twist, the one to comment that they were being played like a fiddle by the McCain camp is MSNBC. http://mediamatters.org/items/200809100015

McCain runs ad with quote from factcheck.org ... with information that is the opposite of what factcheck.org concluded. So Factcheck.org checks that ad.

And the latest pollster maps are getting very boring. Red states have gotten redder. The number of swing states appears to be dropping to a handful and they are the traditional swing states. How disappointing. It was going to have been fun to watch MT and ND flip over.

Last edited by bayoab; 2008-09-11 at 17:33. Reason: Forgot about russia..
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Old 2008-09-11, 17:27   Link #2351
solomon
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i agree.

I thought Palin was a BADDD pick, but it's working wonderfully. It's part of the "personality" and "values" sctick.

I mean look let's face it, the populace just doesn't pay much attention to the government as it should particularly if they are in a very stable life style,

Example, there are at least 12 senatorial races going on in states across the country, and really no one gives that much of hoot IN PROPORTION to the presidential race. Those congressional appointments are gonna have much more effect on us then the Presidential race will in our day to day lives.

It's simply a mismatch of priorities in what we think is important. All this talk about the media being "against" whoever is BULLSHIT. After all if the media really did it's job effectively, A LOT many more senators, projects and organizations would be under reasonable scrutiny.

It's the celebrety culture, until people reject it (then the media will) nothing will change. And the government knows it, and they utilize it to get attention.



Note: I read the interview excerpt Not bad at all. No gaffes here, it's just fluff. She says nothing here of any real value I'm afraid just alot of real general mumbo jumbo about how we shoud defend our allies and be ever vigalant" blah blah.

Note Note; As I said Bayobob, unless something UNFORSEEN happens (say more than 15 percent of the youth vote comes out to actually vote) I wouldn't expect too many surprises, now that Palin is in, both sides are square it's all about Ohio/Michigan IMHO.
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Old 2008-09-11, 17:34   Link #2352
mg1942
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The democrats are in state of panic. Obama's novelty has worn off.

Even VP candidate Joe Biden think he should have picked Hillary Clinton.
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Old 2008-09-11, 20:14   Link #2353
Neki Ecko
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That is very sad I guess, that dirty politics and mudslinging is going to win over change and a new direction.

I am just shock about it, because nobody wants to votes for Obama even know that his polics is far superior then McCain. I guess what other countries is calling us is half-way right now. They are turn this election into America Idol - Washington. Obama was trying to stay clean and do the honor thing but the media is making his life hell.
@mg1942, can you provide a link that Biden say that? Besides I dont think that Democratic party is not in a state of panic, just that people is still scared by the old school tactics.
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Old 2008-09-11, 20:28   Link #2354
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Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
That is very sad I guess, that dirty politics and mudslinging is going to win over change and a new direction.

I am just shock about it, because nobody wants to votes for Obama even know that his polics is far superior then McCain. I guess what other countries is calling us is half-way right now. They are turn this election into America Idol - Washington. Obama was trying to stay clean and do the honor thing but the media is making his life hell.
@mg1942, can you provide a link that Biden say that? Besides I dont think that Democratic party is not in a state of panic, just that people is still scared by the old school tactics.
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/12/us...l?ref=politics

“Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be vice president of the United States of America,” Mr. Biden said Wednesday in Nashua, N.H. “Quite frankly, it might have been a better pick than me.”
Biden sounds like a nice guy and knows his stuff but someone needs to remind him is running for office and needs to stuff the truth down to the bottom bag.
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Old 2008-09-11, 21:59   Link #2355
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Originally Posted by solomon View Post
Example, there are at least 12 senatorial races going on in states across the country, and really no one gives that much of hoot IN PROPORTION to the presidential race. Those congressional appointments are gonna have much more effect on us then the Presidential race will in our day to day lives.
There are around 33 (~100 divided by 3) senatorial races this year, just like there are every two years. In addition all 435 seats in the House of Representatives are being contested this year, like they are every two years.

The mean reason why Senate and House elections aren't followed much is because the overall results are already predicted with large accuracy: Democrats increase their majorities in both chambers of Congress. Just look at past election results and you'll see Senate races are rarely close (read: exciting). And naturally, most people would only pay attention to their own district's elections.

The only Senate race I've heard much about is Ted Steven's, for obvious reasons.

But you are right to some degree. My Congressional district's election may be close this year, but I hardly know anything about the candidates.
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Old 2008-09-11, 22:01   Link #2356
mg1942
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
Besides I dont think that Democratic party is not in a state of panic, just that people is still scared by the old school tactics.

I think Democrats in a state of panic because of the Palin Factor. They don't know what hit them. McCain campaign is now attracting HUGE crowds, almost comparable to Obama's. Palin in the ticket is helping McCain big time. Democrats can't even properly attack Palin... the media and the left-wing blogs are doing it for them. There's just no way to attack her... she's got pretty clean record.

For now until the debates, Obama and the dems are on defensive mode. And let's not forget Obama's novelty has worn off.
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Old 2008-09-11, 22:10   Link #2357
karasuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OtseisRagnarok View Post
I don't really see the issue here,
McCain and Obama are essentially the same. They only say what they think you want to hear, but will act however they want in office. all politicians do the same things. They're moving towards the centre, but acting like they're the poles.
You are 100% correct here.. McCain talked about change. Change what? If there are things he want to change, he has that opportunity with Bush and the republican congress 3 years ago.

Also, most states will vote for 1 or the other party no matter what. Like Texas for Republican and California for Democrats. It is always just a few states that will determine which one will be the president.

As for Palin, she attracts the bush crowd. That's all that is, but that could be enough.
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Old 2008-09-11, 22:30   Link #2358
wingdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942
she's got pretty clean record.
Her record has more holes than quintuplet toddlers in a public bathroom...

-She's lied about the bridge to nowhere then hid the money in the Alaska budget ($300,000,000)
-She lied about selling the plane on ebay when it was bought by a campaign contributor (Which belies the reformer motive she's trying to gleam from that)
-She's more radical than McCain on religion, abortion, stem cell research, freedom of speech
-She has supported a movement and platform for Alaska to succeed from America (Inwhich her husband was a proud member and she spoke at meetings)
-She's a pork-barreler and earmark fiend who supports overt lobbyist activity (Which is the antithesis of McCain's expressed position)

But none of this matters...LOL do you think it should??

Paula Abdul likes her so America please text *8008 to keep her on the show...Again the folksy hockey mom who's tuff with a swagger...Let's make her vice president...It's so absurd, but in today's culture the spectacle eats the body of her work like maggots to the undead...Nice lady, seems pretty together and all that, plus she's obviously not hard on the eyes, but one seat from the unquestioned leader of the free world?? Again the Republicans get credit...They'd bring America to the brink just to win while the Democrats seem primed for the whiner position for years to come...I'm a liberal moderate and if after the last 8 years the demos still can't win this thing I can't see them ever winning again...The "conservative" John McCain made the most radical move perhaps in the history of Presidential campaigns picking Sarah Palin, while the "lefty" Obama made the most conservative move of the campaign picking Biden instead of Hilary (which would have totally nullified Palin as even a suggestion)...It's incredible really, now they're the "change" party...Just incredible...
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Old 2008-09-11, 22:49   Link #2359
cors8
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Here's an interesting article about Palin's natural gas line that's going to supply the USA the McCain campaign is so proud of:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/11/us...rssnyt&emc=rss
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Old 2008-09-12, 00:03   Link #2360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mg1942 View Post
Democrats can't even properly attack Palin... the media and the left-wing blogs are doing it for them. There's just no way to attack her... she's got pretty clean record.
Clean(!), compared to what or whom? Even Obama, whose supporters rally with the belief that he is as clean as a politician can get, has some bad marks written on him. Palin seems no different. But she is lucky that she is still inexperienced, and her experience till now has focused on a place a bit far away from the origin of politics. If she got any closer to the lobbyists more than this, who would actually make an accurate guess about what she may have become? Based on what we had seen so far, she has a tendency for corruption. Though, that means nothing in politics, I guess, as long as it is lower than the threshold the public can accept.

It is interesting that no one is talking about Biden. I don't care how long he has been in politics. McCain is not much different, and there are claims about him (not that those claims make him any weaker, but still there is something to talk about). Is Biden as pure as a white swan with no stain whatsoever sticking on him? Or did he really have great accomplishments in his career that delayed his consideration for so long? Strange, thanks to Palin, Biden is also out of the discussions. Soon, people will forget about his actual presence in the elections (maybe he can beg his President candidate to join him on SNL). In short, it has really become Obama vs. McCain and Palin, instead of Obama and Biden vs. them.

I don't know if this is a minus or plus. But, considering the structure of the public, and some (or many, or majority) making decisions based on what they are shown instead of explained, having 2 known vs. 1 known might become a factor during the final phase of their decision.

Quote:
For now until the debates, Obama and the dems are on defensive mode. And let's not forget Obama's novelty has worn off.
He can find his groove once he goes on the offensive mode. But, there is no guarantee for him to not make a critical mistake while clintonizing himself.
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