AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-06-04, 19:47   Link #1101
Neki Ecko
Do you "love" me
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 34
Send a message via Yahoo to Neki Ecko
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
Technically yes, superdelegates can always change their mind at the last second. However by almost ever proper measure, Obama is ahead in every single reasonable metric (popular vote, pledged delegates, superdelegates, total delegates (both with FL/MI at 50% and without)).
I was going to say that and there isnt too many superdelegrates left anyway and they dont wont let this thing drag out any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoab View Post
Obama has to very careful about picking or not picking another woman. As mentioned, there are Clinton fans who claim to be backing her because she's a woman, but won't vote for another woman.

The issue with her is she doesn't add much to Obama's weak spots on the ticket and actually creates a few conflicts of position. She does help his weak points voting wise, but people aren't electing a VP.
That is true as well, and I know that Clinton fans will be very angry but she can help him out in so many areas and also she can also sway Kansas to Obama if played right. Plus, I love when she destory Pres. Bush after his State of the Union address (btw, it really did suck). Sam Nunn and Webb will be good as well.
__________________
Neki Ecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 19:50   Link #1102
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
You know, having less than 15% of the party's support is different from having more than 40%.
Not in the case of determining who gets the nomination.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 19:52   Link #1103
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
Not in the case of determining who gets the nomination.
But in the case where there are enough loyalists to split the party, it does.



Think of the 1912 Election.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 19:54   Link #1104
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
But in the case where there are enough loyalists to split the party, it does.



Think of the 1912 Election.
No, it doesn't. Obama will be the nominee of the Democratic party, Clinton can do whatever she wants, the Democratic nominee will be Obama.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 19:58   Link #1105
Neki Ecko
Do you "love" me
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 34
Send a message via Yahoo to Neki Ecko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
No, it doesn't. Obama will the nominee of the Democratic party, Clinton can do whatever she wants, the Democratic nominee will be Obama.
Plus all the superdelegrates must pick Obama or Clinton by Friday, since they want to start bring together the party and go after McSame(McCain)
__________________
Neki Ecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 19:59   Link #1106
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
No, it doesn't. Obama will the nominee of the democratic party, Clinton can do whatever she wants, the democratic nominee will be Obama.
Being the nominee isn't everything: Winning the big show is everything. That's the whole point: what's the use of being the presumptive nominee if you're destroying your chances of winning?


Now, I'm not saying that Clinton should become the nominee, but to say that she's selfish for not conceding right away is naive at best. For all the "hope and change" talk that Obama gives out, this is a political game, and there's a give and take if one has a big power base.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:01   Link #1107
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Being the nominee isn't everything: Winning the big show is everything. That's the whole point: what's the use of being the presumptive nominee if you're destroying your chances of winning?


Now, I'm not saying that Clinton should become the nominee, but to say that she's selfish for not conceding right away is naive at best. For all the "hope and change" talk that Obama gives out, this is a political game.
And Obama played it far better than Hilary Clinton, he won the Democratic nomination process, she lost. The nomination isn't everything, but it's the first step. Now he's got to play it better than McCain.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:05   Link #1108
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
And Obama played it far better than Hilary Clinton, he won the Democratic nomination process, she lost. The nomination isn't everything, but it's the first step. Now he's got to play it better than McCain.
And not playing it good with Clinton will result in playing badly against McCain.


Please accept Clinton's power over Obama's fate: this isn't a winner takes all situation.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:05   Link #1109
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeedFreedom View Post
Not really. Obama has stopped with the silly bickering with Clinton while she keep pushing her supporters away. She has made no effort to keep this party unified and if it falls it will be her fault. She was the one intent on dragging it out when he needed to focus on Maccain who was chosen a long while ago and has been preparing for the general election for a long time.
While I think Clinton should have step down a few weeks ago. She didn't drag it out that long. Obama supporters seems to think just because he won a few states in a row then he automatic be the candidate. As many states as Obama won, Clinton was only around 100 delegates behind. It wasn't like he was overwhelming her with delegates. It was still anybodies game.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:07   Link #1110
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
And not playing it good with Clinton will result in playing badly against McCain.


Please accept Clinton's power over Obama's fate: this isn't a winner takes all situation.
Please accept that Clinton lost.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:08   Link #1111
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
Please accept that Clinton lost.
I have accepted the situation: What I will not accept is Obama supporters saying Clinton is acting like a B***H for not conceding without getting a few prizes before dropping out.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:11   Link #1112
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I have accepted the situation: What I will not accept is Obama supporters saying Clinton is acting like a B***H for not conceding without getting a few prizes before dropping out.
I have accepted that Clinton have some power over Obama. But what I will not accept is that SOME Clinton supporters keep saying that EVERY Obama supporter is overly critical against Clinton.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:11   Link #1113
Neki Ecko
Do you "love" me
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 34
Send a message via Yahoo to Neki Ecko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I have accepted the situation: What I will not accept is Obama supporters saying Clinton is acting like a B***H for not conceding without getting a few prizes before dropping out.
So you saying that she deserved a prize for conceding?
__________________
Neki Ecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:15   Link #1114
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
I have accepted that Clinton have some power over Obama. But what I will not accept is that SOME Clinton supporters keep saying that EVERY Obama supporter is overly critical against Clinton.
I never said EVERY Obama supporter. Do I have to add "several/some" every time I write "Obama supporters"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
So you saying that she deserved a prize for conceding?
In Clinton's case, where the loyalist base are willing to destroy the Democrat's chances of winning, yes.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:18   Link #1115
Sokar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkeley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I never said EVERY Obama supporter. Do I have to add "several/some" every time I write "Obama supporters"?
If you don't want people to misunderstand you, yes.
Sokar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:19   Link #1116
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sokar View Post
If you don't want people to misunderstand you, yes.
All right, I'll do it then.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:31   Link #1117
Ledgem
Love Yourself
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
I have accepted the situation: What I will not accept is Obama supporters saying Clinton is acting like a B***H for not conceding without getting a few prizes before dropping out.
I wouldn't make derogatory remarks against Clinton, but what she did certainly felt much more political than what Obama did. I'm not saying that Obama was an angel, but it was rather interesting. Again, this may be media bias here, but while I was reading about Clinton attacking Obama, Obama had seemingly moved on and was going after McCain. When there was that whole scandal about Clinton's remarks about JFK's assassination, and everyone thought that she was referring to Obama probably getting assassinated and how that was a poor statement to make, what did Obama say? Instead of ignoring it or even buying into it, he said that we should move beyond it (I can get the exact quote, which was better but I can't remember it). That's unheard of in politics - who helps out opposition like that, especially when you're actively being attacked by them?

Clinton didn't seem much different than any other politician, other than that she was more presistent in the race. Obama seems very different from most politicians, as far as I've known.
__________________
Ledgem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:35   Link #1118
Kang Seung Jae
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
Clinton didn't seem much different than any other politician, other than that she was more presistent in the race. Obama seems very different from most politicians, as far as I've known.
Every move of Obama seems political to me. Even the smoothing out of the assassination statement can be considered a move to not let himself be bogged down.


Sometimes the best way to help yourself is to "help" others.
__________________
Kang Seung Jae is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:50   Link #1119
Neki Ecko
Do you "love" me
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Everett, Washington
Age: 34
Send a message via Yahoo to Neki Ecko
Quote:
Clinton to support Obama, adviser says


The Associated Press

Published on: 06/04/08

Hillary Rodham Clinton planned to throw support to Democratic rival Barack Obama Friday and call on Democrats to unite against Republican John McCain, her campaign announced Wednesday.

"Senator Clinton will be hosting an event in Washington on Friday to thank her supporters and express her support for Senator Obama and party unity," her communications director Howard Wolfson said.

The announcement brought to an end the historic campaign pitting the first serious female candidate against the most viable black contender ever.

Obama secured the delegates Tuesday night to claim the Democratic nomination, but Clinton stopped short of acknowledging that milestone.

Clinton agreed to back Obama during conference call Wednesday with impatient House Democrats who urged her to end the division between the Obama and Clinton camps, said a senior campaign adviser, speaking on condition of anonymity because the candidate has not authorized public discussion of the private conference call with supporters.

The adviser said Clinton will congratulate Obama for having gathered enough delegates to clinch the nomination, a step she planned to take Tuesday but postponed.

Several of the lawmakers on the call said they would be willing to appear at Clinton's side if she were to hold an event supporting Obama. The details of the conversation were described by people familiar with the discussions
And she is finally get out of the race and support Obama, so I want to know what she got out of this?
__________________
Neki Ecko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-06-04, 20:52   Link #1120
bayoab
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neki Ecko View Post
So you saying that she deserved a prize for conceding?
In Clinton's case, where the loyalist base are willing to destroy the Democrat's chances of winning, yes.
I was reading earlier of two other strings of thought. One is that all that matters is the winner and there is no second place in this contest. Therefore, you just give them the finger since there is always a small amount of turnover in the party when you get to the election. The problem is the size of them this year and certain groups (old people) are reliable voters. Normally, you want to cut off the cancerous part like how republicans cut off the extremist Ron Paul supporters. (Not to imply all Clinton supporters are "cancer" to the party, but those extremists like I've previously linked to are.)

The second is simply to put on a political play and make them think that Clinton is actually getting something when she is getting nothing. You make her an offer of a future cabinet post or something that she would might have actually gotten at whether it was a 51-49 or 70-30 race. This is what is likely going to happen. All she does is gain a little bit of bargaining power because the running theory is that it is her and her husband's legacy at stake if she ends up causing a party schism. It is also her NY senate seat at risk if she ends up pushing the wrong buttons.
bayoab is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
debate, elections, news, politics, united_states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 14:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.