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View Poll Results: Byukugan or sharingan?
Byukugan 407 35.51%
Sharingan 647 56.46%
Neither 92 8.03%
Voters: 1146. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2004-05-31, 18:35   Link #281
Nubixkube
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I think in the case of Byukugan or Sharingan, I'd pick sharingan. Mainly because I think if a person has superior skills in Genjutsu(like itachi, i believe they're illusionary techniques but not sure) you don't have to get close enough to be affected by Byukugan or face its parrying.

Also I think it depends on the person's power level and abilities of the particiular user.
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Old 2004-05-31, 19:28   Link #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Indeed, the Uchiha were known as the unmatched clan because a single guy of this clan was very strong
Get real 3s, if the Uchiha clan was only known to be able to have one strong ninja who whiped them all in a single night, they would be known as the laughable clan, not the most superior clan, not the fearest clan, not the stronger clan, etc.

Seriously re-read the manga, Zabuza, Kakashi, Orochimaru, Lee, Itachi or the rest of the arena including Daymio and ninja leader didn't want to see Sasuke, they wanted to see an Uchiha, when Oro impersonating Kagekaze said that no opponent but an Uchiha could show off Sand's ninjas capacities, you didn't see the 3rd thinking what the hell this moron is saying either.
Every single time that Sasuke does something hard/cool/great/etc. there is someone (Gai, Lee, Kakashi, Oro, etc.) who said Hmmm so that's the Uchiha clan!

No one ever speaks about Itachi when they talk about the genius Uchiha clan.
If you step back from your Uchiha obsession you'd realize that Itachi is what everyone fears, if people in the Uchiha clan were so powerful, how did they get wiped out in a single night? I mean this is a amazing clan with superb fighters, yet they were ALL killed in 1 night, 1 NIGHT AN ENTIRE CLAN WAS WIPED OUT It's pretty simple to tell why people want to see an Uchiha, almost everyone has heard of Itachi, and that Itachi is an Uchiha and that Itachi is very powerful, so it's like real life. If Itachi is that powerful, man I can't wait to see a fight with another Uchiha member because he must be as powerful as Itachi, Only someone as powerful as Itachi can test the limits of our Sand Gennin. It's like the superior sibling complex. If your sister is like Uber smart, atheletic, fast, etc etc, then at one point or another, they're going to think that you too are share some of her abilites, since you're siblings.

The reason people keep saying "So that's the Uchiha power" is because they've only heard about the Uchiha....more like the Sharigan (Since they all got owned), and have never seen it. So when they see Sasuke using someone else's move, it's like wow, that is amazing.
Think about it, if all of the Uchiha were feared, then there would be more names mentioned, look at the Hyuuga clan, they mention Neji, Hiyashi, and Hizashi, but mention Uchiha and only 2 names will come up. Itachi, because he's very powerful, and Sasuke, because he's the only survivor and he's Itachi's brother.

Last edited by Ke0; 2004-06-01 at 04:45.
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Old 2004-05-31, 22:41   Link #283
Explosion of Youth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke0
If you step back from your Uchiha obsession you'd realize that Itachi is what everyone fears, if people in the Uchiha clan were so powerful, how did they get wiped out in a single night? I mean this is a amazing clan with superb fighters, yet they were ALL killed in 1 night, [B]1 NIGHT AN ENTIRE CLAN WAS WIPED OUT
It's pretty simple to tell why people want to see an Uchiha, almost everyone has heard of Itachi, and that Itachi is an Uchiha and that Itachi is very powerful, so it's like real life. If Itachi is that powerful, man I can't wait to see a fight with another Uchiha member because he must be as powerful as Itachi, Only someone as powerful as Itachi can test the limits of our Sand Gennin. It's like the superior sibling complex. If your sister is like Uber smart, atheletic, fast, etc etc, then at one point or another, they're going to think that you too are share some of her abilites, since you're siblings.

The reason people keep saying "So that's the Uchiha power" is because they've only heard about the Uchiha....more like the Sharigan (Since they all got owned), and have never seen it. So when they see Sasuke using someone else's move, it's like wow, that is amazing.
Think about it, if all of the Uchiha were feared, then there would be more names mentioned, look at the Hyuuga clan, they mention Neji, Hiyashi, and Hizashi, but mention Uchiha and only 2 names will come up. Itachi, because he's very powerful, and Sasuke, because he's the only survivor and he's Itachi's brother.[/QUOTE]



YOU are the hyuuga obessed one.

If they are only fearing itachi then why:

- Did zabuza flip out when he heard that Sasuke was an uchiha, obviously because he knew that itachi was the one off exception and all the other uchiha were weaklings

- Why is orochimaru after sharingan instead of byakugan? Obviously the byakugan is the much better eye, thats why he's not going for it...

- Why did lee go out of his way to fight sasuke and uchiha, to test his skills against a genious from a feared clan? If he knew they were all utter shit and itachi was the only strong one why did he go and test himself against an uchiha?

There are 204329 other examples but the uchiha were feared because of their extremely powerful bloodline limit. Not because of one strong ninja.
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Old 2004-05-31, 23:11   Link #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explosion of Youth
YOU are the hyuuga obessed one.

If they are only fearing itachi then why:

- Did zabuza flip out when he heard that Sasuke was an uchiha, obviously because he knew that itachi was the one off exception and all the other uchiha were weaklings

- Why is orochimaru after sharingan instead of byakugan? Obviously the byakugan is the much better eye, thats why he's not going for it...

- Why did lee go out of his way to fight sasuke and uchiha, to test his skills against a genious from a feared clan? If he knew they were all utter shit and itachi was the only strong one why did he go and test himself against an uchiha?

There are 204329 other examples but the uchiha were feared because of their extremely powerful bloodline limit. Not because of one strong ninja.

A bloodline limit doesn't make a genius. Itachi was known to be one as his brother Sasuke too <- and that's why Lee wanted to fight him.
But actually his true target was Hyuga Neiji, also a genius. But he never intended to fight Hinata, since she is not a genius.
It's sad, but Uchiha is not the supreme clan you claim it to be. Kimimarus clan possessed the strongest bloodline limit.
Orochimaru would have been chosen Kimimaru instead of Sasuke, if he wasn't sick. Orochimaru is after the Sharingan now, because it enables him to learn tons of new Jutsus with ease. The Byakugan couldn't do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
For the Xth time, if you're soooo persuaded that the Byakugan is better, why do you need hypothetic new abilities?
Actually the Sasuke fraction's arguments are based on assumptions.
There is no proof that the activated Byakugan would fall for the manga Sharingan, yet all of you are using this as an argument against the Byakugan.
It's a bloodline limit too and therefore it's not a given fact that the mange Sharingan can be used against it.
But to deactivate the chakra flow is an abilitiy of the Hyuga, that's a fact. And since Byakugan users are very strong in Taijutsu, you can't assume the Uchiha to win. The Hyuga could win too. It's not clear yet which bloodline limit is stronger.
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Old 2004-05-31, 23:15   Link #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explosion of Youth
It's pretty simple to tell why people want to see an Uchiha, almost everyone has heard of Itachi, and that Itachi is an Uchiha and that Itachi is very powerful, so it's like real life. If Itachi is that powerful, man I can't wait to see a fight with another Uchiha member because he must be as powerful as Itachi, Only someone as powerful as Itachi can test the limits of our Sand Gennin. It's like the superior sibling complex. If your sister is like Uber smart, atheletic, fast, etc etc, then at one point or another, they're going to think that you too are share some of her abilites, since you're siblings.

The reason people keep saying "So that's the Uchiha power" is because they've only heard about the Uchiha....more like the Sharigan (Since they all got owned), and have never seen it. So when they see Sasuke using someone else's move, it's like wow, that is amazing.
Think about it, if all of the Uchiha were feared, then there would be more names mentioned, look at the Hyuuga clan, they mention Neji, Hiyashi, and Hizashi, but mention Uchiha and only 2 names will come up. Itachi, because he's very powerful, and Sasuke, because he's the only survivor and he's Itachi's brother.


Quote:
YOU are the hyuuga obessed one.
Actually my favorite Character is Orochimaru, I just like the Hyuuga fighting style and their abilites

Quote:
Did zabuza flip out when he heard that Sasuke was an uchiha, obviously because he knew that itachi was the one off exception and all the other uchiha were weaklings
Two reasons one, because he thought all the Uchiha were dead you know they did get slaughtered rather easily by one peson, 2 he's probably heard of Itachi

Quote:
Why is orochimaru after sharingan instead of byakugan? Obviously the byakugan is the much better eye, thats why he's not going for it...
Because the Byakugan can't copy Jutsus that the ONLY reason Orochimaru wants it, since he wants to learn all Jutsus, it's 2+2

Quote:
Why did lee go out of his way to fight sasuke and uchiha, to test his skills against a genious from a feared clan? If he knew they were all utter shit and itachi was the only strong one why did he go and test himself against an uchiha?
Word of mouth, Lee has heard how amazing an a certain member of Uchiha is, hell he may not have heard of Itachi, only there's an extremely powerful member in Uchiha and that he is a genious, and and this guy name Sasuke has the same name, again 2+2

Quote:
There are 204329 other examples but the uchiha were feared because of their extremely powerful bloodline limit. Not because of one strong ninja.
Care to give me some actual good ones and not the crap you shot at me above

Also learn how to quote correctly
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Old 2004-06-01, 03:30   Link #286
Explosion of Youth
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You guys are making some nice ASSUMPTIONS in that they have all heard about Itachi and that he is the reason why the clan was feared, while no one ever once says the Uchiha were the most feared because of Itachi. They always want to see an "Uchiha" fight, not the brother of Itachi, its stated countless times by Orochimaru, the Daimos(sp), Noble lords, Lee too many people. To fear an entire clan because of one person would be silly and it makes no sense aswell. Why would refer to one individual the same way you would refer to what 100 people?

I dont read the manga so I have no Idea who Kimi is and please learn to USE SPOILER TAGS.

Also, the thing wouldn't let me quote it I tried to edit it several times but kept on cutting out half your message.
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Old 2004-06-01, 03:37   Link #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Explosion of Youth
You guys are making some nice ASSUMPTIONS in that they have all heard about Itachi and that he is the reason why the clan was feared, while no one ever once says the Uchiha were the most feared because of Itachi. Also I dont read the manga so I have no Idea who Kimi is and please learn to USE SPOILER TAGS.

Also, the thing wouldn't let me quote it I tried to edit it several times but kept on cutting out half your message.

I'll post some examples when I have the time to look threw the eps.
It's the same as you guys making ASSUMPTIONS that, that's all there is to the Byakugan and the Hyuuga clan. Of course no one is going to actually mention Itachi himself this early, because it would pretty much ruin the whole build up of this shadowy figure Sasuke keeps making mentions to. Also, just because you don't see it happening in a manga/anime doesn't mean it's not happening. For instance, Does the Ramen guy still make Ramen when he's not shwon making Ramen? Does Sasuke train when they don't show him training?
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Old 2004-06-01, 04:05   Link #288
raikage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Indeed, the Uchiha were known as the unmatched clan because a single guy of this clan was very strong
Get real 3s, if the Uchiha clan was only known to be able to have one strong ninja who whiped them all in a single night, they would be known as the laughable clan, not the most superior clan, not the fearest clan, not the stronger clan, etc.

Seriously re-read the manga, Zabuza, Kakashi, Orochimaru, Lee, Itachi or the rest of the arena including Daymio and ninja leader didn't want to see Sasuke, they wanted to see an Uchiha, when Oro impersonating Kagekaze said that no opponent but an Uchiha could show off Sand's ninjas capacities, you didn't see the 3rd thinking what the hell this moron is saying either.
Every single time that Sasuke does something hard/cool/great/etc. there is
I fall somewhere in between the two opinions. I don't think that Itachi was the only prodigy to come out of Uchiha, but neither do I think that there were very many.

Like so many people have said, the fact that Itachi was able to so easily defeat the clan stands as a testament to how far and above the rest he was.

It only takes a few geniuses to make the name known. If people know about the Uchiha abilities (and apparently their capabilities are somewhat well-known), then whenever you fight any Uchiha, you go with the assumption that the Uchiha might have these abilities - whether or not they do. If nothing else, you go with the assumption that they can copy your jutsus (which is still a pretty scary concept in itself), never mind the more advanced forms.

The Chuunin exam - I said this somewhere (I don't remember where), but let's look at the pre-match hype for Sasuke's and Neji's match:

Sasuke vs. Gaara
The last of the famed Uchiha versus the son of the Kazekage; the Sand genin who has completed B-ranked missions without even a scratch on him.

Neji vs Naruto
One of the many Hyuuga faces off against this year's dead-last rookie.

Sasuke vs Gaara is quite possibly the last time one can see an Uchiha in action EVER again. It is the battle of one of Leaf's finest against one of Sand's finest; the international competition to prove which country is better. (Come on, international matches are always huge.)

For Naruto vs Neji, the outcome was never in doubt (for pretty much everyone in the stadium), and no one really thought the match would last more than 2 minutes. It's not an international fight - it's a Leaf vs. Leaf fight which doesn't seem as impressive (considering the Chuunin exam replaces war between countries). There will be more Hyuuga coming along - Hinata may even be in the next tournament. It's not the last of a major clan, it carries no political weight as a battle - it's essentialy throwaway compared to the Sasuke/Gaara clash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Actually in this case, it doesn't matter, he couldn't ignore it.
Spoiler:


Now, we can imagine a Genjutsu which would seem perfectly like the real world, and which wouldn't paralyze the opponent.
In this case it could be useful to know that the character than you see aren't real (because they wouldn't have chakra system or something like that).
You mean like when Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kabuto got caught in the Forest of Death and wasted their stamina wandering aimlessly for hours? That was pretty effective.

Kurenai's disappearing genjutsu seems pretty useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Explosion of Youth
- Why is orochimaru after sharingan instead of byakugan? Obviously the byakugan is the much better eye, thats why he's not going for it...

- Why did lee go out of his way to fight sasuke and uchiha, to test his skills against a genious from a feared clan? If he knew they were all utter shit and itachi was the only strong one why did he go and test himself against an uchiha?
Oro? Pretty much what Ke0 said - the Sharingan works better for Oro's particular needs. That's all.

Lee? Um...he's faced off against Neji...many, many, MANY times. He's never fought Sasuke before, and wanted to fight against someone new. If you were to go back in time and switch Naruto and Lee, I'm pretty sure Rock would have challenged Neji before the exams.

Don't forget that Lee saw Sasuke as a stepping stone to Neji, not Neji as a stepping stone to Sasuke.
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Old 2004-06-01, 06:34   Link #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
I fall somewhere in between the two opinions. I don't think that Itachi was the only prodigy to come out of Uchiha, but neither do I think that there were very many.

Like so many people have said, the fact that Itachi was able to so easily defeat the clan stands as a testament to how far and above the rest he was.

It only takes a few geniuses to make the name known. If people know about the Uchiha abilities (and apparently their capabilities are somewhat well-known), then whenever you fight any Uchiha, you go with the assumption that the Uchiha might have these abilities - whether or not they do. If nothing else, you go with the assumption that they can copy your jutsus (which is still a pretty scary concept in itself), never mind the more advanced forms.

The Chuunin exam - I said this somewhere (I don't remember where), but let's look at the pre-match hype for Sasuke's and Neji's match:

Sasuke vs. Gaara
The last of the famed Uchiha versus the son of the Kazekage; the Sand genin who has completed B-ranked missions without even a scratch on him.

Neji vs Naruto
One of the many Hyuuga faces off against this year's dead-last rookie.

Sasuke vs Gaara is quite possibly the last time one can see an Uchiha in action EVER again. It is the battle of one of Leaf's finest against one of Sand's finest; the international competition to prove which country is better. (Come on, international matches are always huge.)

For Naruto vs Neji, the outcome was never in doubt (for pretty much everyone in the stadium), and no one really thought the match would last more than 2 minutes. It's not an international fight - it's a Leaf vs. Leaf fight which doesn't seem as impressive (considering the Chuunin exam replaces war between countries). There will be more Hyuuga coming along - Hinata may even be in the next tournament. It's not the last of a major clan, it carries no political weight as a battle - it's essentialy throwaway compared to the Sasuke/Gaara clash.



You mean like when Naruto, Sasuke, Sakura, and Kabuto got caught in the Forest of Death and wasted their stamina wandering aimlessly for hours? That was pretty effective.

Kurenai's disappearing genjutsu seems pretty useful.



Oro? Pretty much what Ke0 said - the Sharingan works better for Oro's particular needs. That's all.

Lee? Um...he's faced off against Neji...many, many, MANY times. He's never fought Sasuke before, and wanted to fight against someone new. If you were to go back in time and switch Naruto and Lee, I'm pretty sure Rock would have challenged Neji before the exams.

Don't forget that Lee saw Sasuke as a stepping stone to Neji, not Neji as a stepping stone to Sasuke.
Very good post, but regardless of how good both the clans were Lee wanted to beat up Neji more seeing as there was a lot more emotion invovled in their fight.

Also why did lee not challenge Shino, or Chouji? One of the reasons the Uchiha were one of (if not the most) feared clan in konoha. Also I doubt lee would have recognised him as Itachi's little brother (Going a bit off topic here )
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Old 2004-06-01, 11:51   Link #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ke0
If you step back from your Uchiha obsession you'd realize that Itachi is what everyone fears, if people in the Uchiha clan were so powerful, how did they get wiped out in a single night? I mean this is a amazing clan with superb fighters, yet they were ALL killed in 1 night, 1 NIGHT AN ENTIRE CLAN WAS WIPED OUT
Because they were facing the strongest ninja of their own clan, the only thing that proves is how incredible this advanced bloodline can be into the hands of someone as Itachi.

Itachi killing a whole clan in a night?
Yeah so what? Oro's known to be able to take out a small country by himself.

Quote:
It's pretty simple to tell why people want to see an Uchiha, almost everyone has heard of Itachi, and that Itachi is an Uchiha and that Itachi is very powerful, so it's like real life. If Itachi is that powerful, man I can't wait to see a fight with another Uchiha member because he must be as powerful as Itachi, Only someone as powerful as Itachi can test the limits of our Sand Gennin. It's like the superior sibling complex. If your sister is like Uber smart, atheletic, fast, etc etc, then at one point or another, they're going to think that you too are share some of her abilites, since you're siblings.
What can you answer to something as much stupid as that?
You can say the same for absolutely every clan is the story, the Nara are all weak but one, the Kaguya are all weak but one, the only strong Hyuga is Hiashi, the others are all weak, but he's well known so people believes that the Hyuga are strong haha the losers.

You never heard about the familly of Oro, or of Jiraiya, or of the 3rd, or of the 4th.
They're all incredibly, insanely strong, people should talk about their familly.
No they shouldn't. They're strong by themself, nobody care about something else than their own name because they're strong, not their familly.

Itachi is the ultimate product of this bloodline indeed, but certainely not the only one because people would talk about him and not about the Uchiha clan.

Quote:
The reason people keep saying "So that's the Uchiha power" is because they've only heard about the Uchiha....more like the Sharigan (Since they all got owned), and have never seen it. So when they see Sasuke using someone else's move, it's like wow, that is amazing.
lol so firstly you said that almost everyone has heard of Itachi then that they only heard about the Uchiha, you make perfect sens.

Nobody talk about Sasuke as the brother of Itachi, they only talk about their clan.

Quote:
Think about it, if all of the Uchiha were feared, then there would be more names mentioned, look at the Hyuuga clan, they mention Neji, Hiyashi, and Hizashi, but mention Uchiha and only 2 names will come up. Itachi, because he's very powerful, and Sasuke, because he's the only survivor and he's Itachi's brother.
That's exactly the opposite, if there were only one or two people feared, their name would be known and only them, not really the name of their clan. People speak about the Uchiha clan because they were feared as a whole.

Then your argument is nothing but pitiful lol how many names are mentionned for the Nara clan? the Aburame? the Akimichi? The Yamanaka? The Inuzuka?

We know 1 Kaguya, their clan must have been weak so?
And Haku lol, we don't even know the name of his clan, it must have been incredibly weak.

There're people well known in the Hyuga? Since when?
People talk about them as a whole, exactly as the Uchiha.

How many people have the Sharingan in the story? Sasuke the second main character and one of the strongest Genin, Kakashi known for that as the copy ninja, one of the strongest Jounin in the whole series and Itachi one of the main vilain and one of the strongest ninja in the world.
I still wait to see someone weak having a the Sharingan.


Raikage, you're right, it's stated in the manga that there were only few elite Uchiha having the Sharingan, it's a fact.
The Sharingan masters built the name of the Uchiha, it's almost certain.
But one guy isn't enough to do that, especially for Itachi who stayed as a ninja in Konoha a very short amount of time.

For the point of the Chuunin exam, you don't see the arena become crazy for a fight with one of the Nara vs. the daughter of Kazekage or the fight with one of the Aburame vs. the son of the Kazekage.
Actually I don't even remember one guy ever mentionned the name of Gaara as a reason to expect this fight (in the anime the arena was even shouting who's this guy?/who cares of this guy we want the Uchiha's boy/etc But I don't remember it was the case in the manga)

Then -and once again - to try to invent complicated reasons to explain why plenty of the characters speak about the Sharingan with stars in their eyes is stupid because in the end the fact remains that the autor of this story makes people praises this bloodline all the time, makes the second main character having it, makes the big vilain of the story Darth Oro wanting it, makes the other big vilain having it, etc.

The fact that about half of this series is about the Sharingan and the relation of the characters who haves/wants it is a point by itself.
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Old 2004-06-01, 12:24   Link #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
Raikage, you're right, it's stated in the manga that there were only few elite Uchiha having the Sharingan, it's a fact.
The Sharingan masters built the name of the Uchiha, it's almost certain.
But one guy isn't enough to do that, especially for Itachi who stayed as a ninja in Konoha a very short amount of time.
That's pretty much what I said - I'm sure that Itachi isn't the one and only man who made the Uchiha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter
For the point of the Chuunin exam, you don't see the arena become crazy for a fight with one of the Nara vs. the daughter of Kazekage or the fight with one of the Aburame vs. the son of the Kazekage.
Actually I don't even remember one guy ever mentionned the name of Gaara as a reason to expect this fight (in the anime the arena was even shouting who's this guy?/who cares of this guy we want the Uchiha's boy/etc But I don't remember it was the case in the manga)
Did the arena yell that? I thought they only did it for Shikamaru and not Gaara.

Good points for the Temari and Kankurou matches. Once again, though, it comes down to - this is the LAST time you can EVER see an Uchiha fight - unless he's trying to kill you That in itself is a huge reason to go want to watch him. It's not complicated or convoluted or a big stretch of the imagination - he's the last of the famous Uchiha; the only survivor of the clan massacre, and that itself builds high expectations for Sasuke.
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Old 2004-06-01, 12:51   Link #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raikage
That's pretty much what I said - I'm sure that Itachi isn't the one and only man who made the Uchiha.
I know, that's why i said that I agreed with you ^^

Quote:
Did the arena yell that? I thought they only did it for Shikamaru and not Gaara.
Yeah, with people wondering who could be Gaara, that he couldn't be as good as an Uchiha anyway, etc.
But like i said it's a filler scene, it's not in the manga.

Quote:
Good points for the Temari and Kankurou matches. Once again, though, it comes down to - this is the LAST time you can EVER see an Uchiha fight - unless he's trying to kill you That in itself is a huge reason to go want to watch him. It's not complicated or convoluted or a big stretch of the imagination - he's the last of the famous Uchiha; the only survivor of the clan massacre, and that itself builds high expectations for Sasuke.
Oh but I pretty much agree with that, I mean, it's quite obvious that these people aren't here for Sasuke himself, but for the reputation of the Uchiha as a clan.

I was still thinking about Ke0's joke for the whole arena expecting so much to an Uchiha fight -you know the famous Uchiha clan who produced only weakling but for one ninja in their history

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Old 2004-06-01, 15:50   Link #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter

I was still thinking about Ke0's joke for the whole arena expecting so much to an Uchiha fight -you know the famous Uchiha clan who produced only weakling but for one ninja in their history

Yes my idea exactly, you can't call Uchiha a feared clan because of one Ninja, its the stupidest thing ever.
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Old 2004-06-01, 16:27   Link #294
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Hello again everybody. I've been without internet since I got home for this summer and haven't been around to post lately. I haven't completely caught up in this conversation, but from the later posts I've read, it seems as if the current branch is about the clans, and not their abilities (Sharingan and Byakugan). Which clan is more feared really doesn't matter all too much unless it can be proven that the Byakugan or Sharingan ability is the cause of that domination. Otherwise, proving that whatever clan is feared only proves "they are the strongest shinobi" not that the bloodline limit they posses is stronger. I'm sure no one would care to suggest that if the Akatsuki were a clan, they would be the strongest. Proving that would do nothing in describing their abilities. It would only say that the members of the clan are strong.

My 2 cents of original commenting - Sharingan rocks Byakugan. That's just my opinion. Agree with it or leave it :fingers: I don't have the time right now to write an essay on why I think so. Oh wait...I think I already did that back in the "Favorite Advance Bloodline" thread. That link is to a manga thread so those who don't want spoilers shouldn't be aware.
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Old 2004-06-01, 17:04   Link #295
aptenergy
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Well it's settled then. Sharingan > Byakugan. Period. From what we know, Sharingan is unstoppable. Anyone in range of that eye, intentionally or not, is essentially pwned. A Byakugan user standing in front of a Sharingan user that knows Tsukiyomi = pwned.

</sarcasm>

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When you judge an ability, you do it with what you know of the ability, not with what you hope that it will be.
My point is that if you don't allow for any speculation, this entire forum would be done. No one here is disputing the fact that Tsukiyomi is an awesome jutsu, but that doesn't mean that people can't try poke holes into it when trying to figure out how it works. It also doesn't mean that people can't speculate about what a Byakugan user would ultimately be able to do.

I personally think this speculation has to happen because the comparison of Hyuuga and Uchiha is definitely not settled. If someone had wanted it to be, it could have easily been settled back in the Chuunin exams - just let a few jounins say "even though the Sharingan has always been better than the Byakugan" - but that didn't happen. The point is to encourage discussion, to encourage people to take sides, and to encourage vs. threads like this one. Personally I don't think it's ever going to be settled. Either that, or it's going to be acknowledged that they're the same strength (but from different sides).

It's not a hope that I have - it's my conclusion after looking at the strengths of both sides and how they complement each other, looking at how they have been compared so far, and realizing that the Sharingan's extent has been almost fully shown, while Neji still has a while to go in his growth.

A few things...
1) I think Neji was 100% accurate in his reading of expressions. He didn't read from Naruto's face that Naruto was definitely going to lose. That came from his overconfidence and underestimation of raw abilities. But he definitely did read that (iirc) Naruto was not overconfident in himself. I think everyone believes in the accuracy of that statement.

2) The manga (well I started reading the manga after the Naruto/Neji fight so sorry if I don't get it right) never hints at Tsukiyomi / Amaterasu either. After Kakashi's illusions on Zabuza I was thinking, dude that's pretty tight. I don't think it was possible at all to guess that something like Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu even existed in the Sharingan technique - not their titles nor their names. Oh sure you can say that "maybe a better fire technique or illusion technique exists" but I don't think I ever saw the anime backing that up.

3) Insight is not X-ray vision, as I said before. Insight means "the capacity to discern the true nature of a situation; penetration" (dict definition). Sharingan realizes, detects, and can copy almost all jutsu. They see through it, they see how it works, and they can use it. That's an excellent example of insight if you ask me. Meanwhile all Byakugan can do is observe chakra flow (which only has one purpose for the Byakugan user: to stop it). The Byakugan user cannot observe and realize anything about the jutsu being used. And by the way, even though a Byakugan can sense 360 degrees, apparently anyone can do it. (Call it cheap if you want, but it seems that all ninja know what's around them. Itachi is probably better at this than Neji.)

Second definition of insight - "The act or outcome of grasping the inward or hidden nature of things or of perceiving in an intuitive manner." Byakugan observes chakra flow. That's not intuitive, however. Neji just sees chakra flowing, that's it.

My conclusion from that long winded discussion is that when Kakashi (a high level ninjutsu user) says the Byakugan offers more insight, I'm not concluding it's simply because Neji can see holes in someone's body.
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:04   Link #296
nh1
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Originally Posted by Hunter
What can you answer to something as much stupid as that?
I wanna answer! I wanna answer!
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You never heard about the familly of Oro, or of Jiraiya, or of the 3rd, or of the 4th.
They're all incredibly, insanely strong, people should talk about their familly.
Yeah! Like Sakura killed the whole Haruno clan in 1 night! The Haruno clan must be incredible!
Quote:
There're people well known in the Hyuga? Since when?
People talk about them as a whole, exactly as the Uchiha.
I just realized, these arguments favour the Hyuuga! They're not as lucky as to have a genius like Itachi in their clan (It seems Neji is only slightly above Sasuke on the genius scale. Or maybe not, but he has not completely developed).

Well, it doesn't matter anyways. If Kishimoto wants Sharingan to be better, then he does, and there's nothing we can do about it

...

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Old 2004-06-01, 18:06   Link #297
Ke0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aptenergy
3) Insight is not X-ray vision, as I said before. Insight means "the capacity to discern the true nature of a situation; penetration" (dict definition). Sharingan realizes, detects, and can copy almost all jutsu. They see through it, they see how it works, and they can use it. That's an excellent example of insight if you ask me. Meanwhile all Byakugan can do is observe chakra flow (which only has one purpose for the Byakugan user: to stop it). The Byakugan user cannot observe and realize anything about the jutsu being used. And by the way, even though a Byakugan can sense 360 degrees, apparently anyone can do it. (Call it cheap if you want, but it seems that all ninja know what's around them. Itachi is probably better at this than Neji.)

Second definition of insight - "The act or outcome of grasping the inward or hidden nature of things or of perceiving in an intuitive manner." Byakugan observes chakra flow. That's not intuitive, however. Neji just sees chakra flowing, that's it.

My conclusion from that long winded discussion is that when Kakashi (a high level ninjutsu user) says the Byakugan offers more insight, I'm not concluding it's simply because Neji can see holes in someone's body.
So what you're saying is that Byakugan only offers almost 360 degree vision and the ability to see chakra flow and that's it? What exactly are you saying?

And those talking about the Uchiha, I said that the clan is feared because of the feats of a few members, Itachi, xxxxx, xxxxx, xxxxxx and probably a few others. Though since it's been stated that Itachi is the strongest member Uchiha clan has ever had, I'm pretty sure he's a one off person. To me I wouldn't fear a clan that I know only has a handful of strong people, and the rest are like normal people who go about life like normal people. In that case they Hyuuga would be more feared, since almost everyone in the family...........families are trained to fight. Though I don't think we've seen her, I'd be more afraid of Neji's mom than Sasuke's
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Old 2004-06-01, 18:28   Link #298
Naruto714
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I have a question do you think that Itachi at the age of 13 (when he wiped out his clan) could have wiped out they Hyuuga clan at that age.

I mean with his level of skill with the Sharingan against the Hyuuga clan

I would say no because Itachi is really the only one that seemed that strong during the flash back. Everyone else just kinda got hit and died. While Kakashi seemed to put up an okay fight for a jounin I believe that if there was a village of strong people they could have resisted.

Itachi is the only person as of now that can do the Mange Sharingan while Neji while strong doesn't appear to overwhelm everyone else that much like Hinata who was considered weak put up a good fight

Kakashi said that Sasuke couldn't beat Neji at his level and said Byakugan is better in insight than the Sharingan

All in all we shouldn't use Itachi who was able to the defeat the whole clan versus a decently powerfall clan

So in conclusion overall the Sharingan can be better as we see with Itachi but using the Byakugan to its full potential like Neji did with 64 Hands and Heintan (sp) the Byakugan is easier to use/inherit
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Old 2004-06-01, 19:13   Link #299
Ke0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Naruto714
I have a question do you think that Itachi at the age of 13 (when he wiped out his clan) could have wiped out they Hyuuga clan at that age.

I mean with his level of skill with the Sharingan against the Hyuuga clan

I would say no because Itachi is really the only one that seemed that strong during the flash back. Everyone else just kinda got hit and died. While Kakashi seemed to put up an okay fight for a jounin I believe that if there was a village of strong people they could have resisted.

Itachi is the only person as of now that can do the Mange Sharingan while Neji while strong doesn't appear to overwhelm everyone else that much like Hinata who was considered weak put up a good fight

Kakashi said that Sasuke couldn't beat Neji at his level and said Byakugan is better in insight than the Sharingan

All in all we shouldn't use Itachi who was able to the defeat the whole clan versus a decently powerfall clan

So in conclusion overall the Sharingan can be better as we see with Itachi but using the Byakugan to its full potential like Neji did with 64 Hands and Heintan (sp) the Byakugan is easier to use/inherit
The thing is, 64 Hands of Hakke and Kaiten aren't the full potential, because if Hyuuga clan is based on The Divinitation thing, then there are 8 holy moves that they should know, so far we've only seen 2
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Old 2004-06-01, 19:31   Link #300
Hunter
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Okay to much to answer that will be -once again- long

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Originally Posted by EbonySeraphim
Which clan is more feared really doesn't matter all too much unless it can be proven that the Byakugan or Sharingan ability is the cause of that domination. Otherwise, proving that whatever clan is feared only proves "they are the strongest shinobi" not that the bloodline limit they posses is stronger. I'm sure no one would care to suggest that if the Akatsuki were a clan, they would be the strongest. Proving that would do nothing in describing their abilities. It would only say that the members of the clan are strong.
I completely agree with that, besides and in the case of the Uchiha/Hyuga, the organization of the clan count as well.

The Uchiha were the fearest clan, the unmatched clan, etc.
But remember that in the case of the Hyuga, the strongest members, the Main family, don't fight outside Konoha.
Neji and his father are an exception, because Hizashi was pushed into the Branch family for political reason.
But usually the Hyuga fighting for Konoha are the one who has inherited the less of the Byakugan.

In the other hand, the best members of the Uchiha, the Sharingan users, fight (fought) for Konoha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aptenergy
My point is that if you don't allow for any speculation, this entire forum would be done. No one here is disputing the fact that Tsukiyomi is an awesome jutsu, but that doesn't mean that people can't try poke holes into it when trying to figure out how it works. It also doesn't mean that people can't speculate about what a Byakugan user would ultimately be able to do.
Don't misunderstand me, I like speculate, and I think it's fair to imagine new way to use bloodline's abilities to show that there could be more than the manga showed.
For example in another thread, Raikage spoke about a way to use the Byakugan for long range attacks and it's perfectly possible because he just used the abilities that already existed.
Same thing with the bloodline of Haku, there must be countless others way to control water than he did.

But if someone says that Haku's bloodline could also manipulated the fire then it's a bullshit.
If someone says that the Byakugan can manipulate the chakra of others people and make them make implode remotely then it's a bullshit.
If someone says that the Sharingan can summon ghosts to eat people's soul then it's a bullshit.

You can speculate all you want on abilities already existing, but you can't invent by yourself completely new abilities, or else it's impossible to discuss about anything.

Quote:
A few things...
1) I think Neji was 100% accurate in his reading of expressions. He didn't read from Naruto's face that Naruto was definitely going to lose. That came from his overconfidence and underestimation of raw abilities. But he definitely did read that (iirc) Naruto was not overconfident in himself. I think everyone believes in the accuracy of that statement.
Naruto prooved that Neji's reading abilities wasn't 100% accurate when he fooled him, making him believe that the real him didn't dare to fight with the others clones at close range.

Quote:
2) The manga (well I started reading the manga after the Naruto/Neji fight so sorry if I don't get it right) never hints at Tsukiyomi / Amaterasu either. After Kakashi's illusions on Zabuza I was thinking, dude that's pretty tight. I don't think it was possible at all to guess that something like Tsukiyomi or Amaterasu even existed in the Sharingan technique - not their titles nor their names. Oh sure you can say that "maybe a better fire technique or illusion technique exists" but I don't think I ever saw the anime backing that up.
The Tsukiyomi didn't really surprise me, the Sharingan had already proven that it has induced genjutsu during the fight Kakashi vs Zabuza, in the other hand the Amaterasu really came out of no-where (and we still wait for its true explanation btw).
I see what you mean, that it was impossible to predict this kind of new abilities, thus the Byakugan (or else) could have new incredible and deadly abilities.

And it's true, I never say the opposite, however it's not an argument, I explained why above, you can't say like that that the Byakugan can prevent the Sharingan to function remotely, or that the Sharingan can make explode the eyes of the opponent at will.
If you start to invent new capacities, it will only stop when someone will say that one bloodline can destroy the world at once.

Quote:
3) Insight is not X-ray vision, as I said before. Insight means "the capacity to discern the true nature of a situation; penetration" (dict definition).
[...],
I'm not concluding it's simply because Neji can see holes in someone's body.
But the Byakugan's vision is much better than that.
Spoiler:


Then the Hyuga have an incredible insight, like I said, i believe that they're very good to read people's faces and emotions.
But like Naruto said, that's not because you can see everything that you know everything, neither that you understand everything.

And maybe very good ninjas can sense things around them, but not as good as the Hyuga who can do that naturally and perfectly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nh1
Yeah! Like Sakura killed the whole Haruno clan in 1 night! The Haruno clan must be incredible!
We never ever see the Haruno family not because they're dead, but because they're too shameful of their daughter
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