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Old 2010-09-29, 12:51   Link #27301
Tiresias
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Looking at her, she can't be any older than 8 or 9, so I don't see how she could be a tyrant. History is written by the winners, so it wouldn't be a stretch for the winners to write that they considered the enemy ruler a tyrant (something her soldiers might encourage: "Fear our mighty ruler who brings life back to the dead!"). It's more likely Ix was just used, and someone else was the tyrant. She wouldn't be forced to do anything, really; just be hooked up to a sufficient power source to produce mariage cores. In that light, she's just a cog in a machine.

At least, given the lack of exact evidence spelling things out, this is the viewpoint I am taking with this fic.

Part of the problem is that this is the Nanohaverse we're talking about, where Nanoha is an incredibly mature 9 year old, so it's easy to mistake that maturity for an adult. I'm simply taking the viewpoint that, no matter how mature they may seem, there is still a kid in there.

Anyway, I'm in the process of PM'ing you, so hopefully we can work something out. I'm also in the process of rewriting parts of the fic, so don't think I'm not listening to what people are saying; I'm just trying to meld the concerns with the vision I had of where I saw things going.
OneTwo more things to take into consideration:
  1. Ten-year olds in the Nanohaverse can be surprisingly mature, even if there are some moments of childishness(and the way she speaks in SSX seems to be mature too, unless I was hearing it wrong)
  2. The idea of using Mariages to fight at all seems utterly repulsive for her back at SSX, and she had probably seen worse war horrors during the Belkan Civil War
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Old 2010-09-29, 13:28   Link #27302
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Originally Posted by Tiresias View Post
OneTwo more things to take into consideration:
  1. Ten-year olds in the Nanohaverse can be surprisingly mature, even if there are some moments of childishness(and the way she speaks in SSX seems to be mature too, unless I was hearing it wrong)
  2. The idea of using Mariages to fight at all seems utterly repulsive for her back at SSX, and she had probably seen worse war horrors during the Belkan Civil War
I addressed #1 a bit, since Nanoha and Yuuno were incredibly mature for 9 year olds. As for #2, people can change, which is partly what I was going to address in Chapter 20. We have to remember we have very few scenes with Ix. A few with Subaru underground, and then one with her shortly before she falls asleep again.

Anyway, I'll post this bit. I took out some of the "mama" parts, and edited some others in minor ways. Hopefully, the more major additions below should give some insight:

Spoiler for Slightly edited parts from FT chapter 19:


Like I said, the rest were minor edits for now, but I'll post this bit to see what people think. And I'll try to speed up on Chapter 20 with the PM's I get, to hopefully shed some light on how things developed.
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Old 2010-09-29, 14:01   Link #27303
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I'm not so sure about that. Looking at her, she can't be any older than 8 or 9, so I don't see how she could be a tyrant.
I got the impression that Ix doesn't age period, so what she looks like hardly means anything. Compare her to Vita and Cinque whose mentality and experience hardly match their appearence.

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I addressed #1 a bit, since Nanoha and Yuuno were incredibly mature for 9 year olds. As for #2, people can change, which is partly what I was going to address in Chapter 20. We have to remember we have very few scenes with Ix. A few with Subaru underground, and then one with her shortly before she falls asleep again.

Anyway, I'll post this bit. I took out some of the "mama" parts, and edited some others in minor ways. Hopefully, the more major additions below should give some insight:

Spoiler for Slightly edited parts from FT chapter 19:


Like I said, the rest were minor edits for now, but I'll post this bit to see what people think. And I'll try to speed up on Chapter 20 with the PM's I get, to hopefully shed some light on how things developed.
Better, but the "friends to parent and child" thing still doesn't sit right with me. Why would Vivio need to 'adopt' Ix in the first place? They went into hiding so it's not like they would be concerned about the legal process of it all. Also, look at Vivid. Vivio sees Ix as her friend even if she is sleeping the whole time and I image the same thing continuing even after 50 years. So what about the difference in physical age? I don't think Vivio would be able to go "She's been my friend for over 50 years, but now she'll be my daughter!" It's so much of a leap that my suspension of disbelief doesn't cover it.

Hell, just Einhart being Ix's mama would work, since Einhart had no real previous contact with Ix so their first meeting is a blank slate that could develop into any sort of relationship. But Einhart hardly seems the type to take a mother role.

If you really, really, REALLY want this whole "Vivio and Einhart have a kid just like Nanoha and Fate did!" introduce a new character instead of using Ix. Ix just doesn't fit that role.
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Old 2010-09-29, 14:26   Link #27304
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Hell, just Einhart being Ix's mama would work, since Einhart had no real previous contact with Ix so their first meeting is a blank slate that could develop into any sort of relationship. But Einhart hardly seems the type to take a mother role.
Actually, Ein would know Ix from her memories of Ingvalt.
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Old 2010-09-29, 14:51   Link #27305
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Actually, Ein would know Ix from her memories of Ingvalt.
Hell, when she was first introduced, didn't Einhart mention she was looking for both Vivio and Ixy?
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Old 2010-09-29, 14:54   Link #27306
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Yes she did. And I doubt she was looking for a weak little 8 year old kid.
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Old 2010-09-29, 15:38   Link #27307
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It's not quite clear that Einhart is aware that Ix is even a fighter. Indeed, we see that Ix isn't. So it's more probable that Einhart simply knew that Ix as the "Dark Queen" and heard the stories about how powerful she was, and wanted to prove herself against that. We all know how a fight would go between Einhart and Ix. If Einhart really knew what Ix was like, she'd know that Ix was actually weak.

Also, Ix certainly seems to think she's a child. She calls Vivio someone her own age and Subaru refers to Ix several times as a child (and even pokes her forehead like an adult would do to a child to punish them).

Still making changes and considering how to reword things. After listening to the tracks Ix was in, I'm not convinced she was anything but a child (as far as Nanohaverse children go), but I may look into editing specific things.
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Old 2010-09-29, 15:43   Link #27308
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
She calls Vivio someone her own age
And there's another reason she wouldn't view Vivio as a mother. Even with the Rip Van Winkle effect, that perception wouldn't change, or at least not very easily. Especially when, to Ix, Vivio was her age not too long ago.
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Old 2010-09-29, 15:46   Link #27309
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And there's another reason she wouldn't view Vivio as a mother. Even with the Rip Van Winkle effect, that perception wouldn't change, or at least not very easily.
Well, I thought it was just Ixy playing a part really...

You know what they say about masks...

Eventually you become the mask you wear...

So, maybe Vivio should just say that she and Einhart have just looked after Ixy like a family, and the whole "mama" thing started as a joke, but it was one that never ended, so they never stopped with it.
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Old 2010-09-29, 15:55   Link #27310
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
And there's another reason she wouldn't view Vivio as a mother. Even with the Rip Van Winkle effect, that perception wouldn't change, or at least not very easily. Especially when, to Ix, Vivio was her age not too long ago.
Perceptions can change, especially when it was video call of a few minutes. I'll agree with you that this is what Ix would revert to when she wakes up, but you're assuming someone can't change in the interval of two years. We see how big of a change Lutecia went through in the course of just one year, after all.

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Well, I thought it was just Ixy playing a part really...

You know what they say about masks...

Eventually you become the mask you wear...

So, maybe Vivio should just say that she and Einhart have just looked after Ixy like a family, and the whole "mama" thing started as a joke, but it was one that never ended, so they never stopped with it.
This is partly where I'm coming from in this. Never underestimate the human mind to adapt and fit the narrative, even if it was only a joke.
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Old 2010-09-29, 15:56   Link #27311
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
And there's another reason she wouldn't view Vivio as a mother. Even with the Rip Van Winkle effect, that perception wouldn't change, or at least not very easily. Especially when, to Ix, Vivio was her age not too long ago.
Depends on how many times she'd done the Rip Van Winkle effect such that she saw people go from child to adult quasi-"instantly". She'd recognize the changes in them over almost any amount of time was massive compared to what she experienced during any given "awake" time.

Maybe they wanted to have a family dynamic, for a little bit of normalcy where locking themselves into hiding is anything but normal. Maybe Ix wanted to have a parental figure who was more Reasonable Authority than War Leader, with the opportunity to actually be a kid, which she has been denied.

Or maybe it's like Nanya said; the mama thing came from apparent ages as a joke and sorta stuck 'cause there wasn't anyone who didn't get the joke present, ah, ever.
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Old 2010-09-29, 16:49   Link #27312
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I believe I suggested it being a joke that stuck before. However in that case when Nanoha goes "Mama?" Vivio should respond with a more "Oh, she's really not, it's a joke and we had no reason to stop..."

In that case I think Ix should drop the 'mamas' when she goes into 'serious mode.'
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Old 2010-09-29, 16:56   Link #27313
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Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
I believe I suggested it being a joke that stuck before. However in that case when Nanoha goes "Mama?" Vivio should respond with a more "Oh, she's really not, it's a joke and we had no reason to stop..."

In that case I think Ix should drop the 'mamas' when she goes into 'serious mode.'
I did, actually. As soon as Einhart mentioned that a shipment came in, all trace of the childishness vanished. Ix just said she was ready. And in my rewritten scene, I made mention that it started as a joke.

There's a lot about Ix that is unknown, and various ways people can take her character. I hope I'm not trying to get across that this is the One True Way, but rather just one possibility. I can think of quite a few theories that would fit, but for now, I'll try to drop this so as to not take over the FFT, heh. Instead I'll work to complete chapter 20 soon, and hopefully the actual character development will be highlighted better. Though this is pretty much what I've done with all characters thus far; Nanoha encounters them as changed individuals, and then she learns how they changed over the years.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I'll continue to make changes, and am holding off on ff.net posting for now. Let's try to let this thread open back up for everyone else's fics, heh.
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Old 2010-09-29, 17:07   Link #27314
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That is one of the things that makes this series so good to write for, so much about so many is unknowm. This naturally allows for an infinite number of alternate character interpretations. That was what i assumed this whole thing about Ix was, just one more way of looking at the character from a different angle.

Also if you'd lived life the way she had and someone gave you the opportunity to revert to a child-like state and enjoy what you never had would you not play the part to the utmost? even if it was only a joke to begin with?
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Old 2010-09-29, 17:15   Link #27315
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I did, actually. As soon as Einhart mentioned that a shipment came in, all trace of the childishness vanished. Ix just said she was ready. And in my rewritten scene, I made mention that it started as a joke.
But you didn't have her address either of the other two girls. Adding a line where Ix says Einhart and/or Vivio's name without the 'mama' would help things in my opinion.
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Old 2010-09-29, 17:53   Link #27316
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Last chapter I'll have posted for a little while at least.

...

Doesn't help my muse is writing out chapters for future events before I can get to them.

ANYWAY!

Big thanks to Raiser for all his help.

Day in the Life

Chapter 41

Spoiler for Reaffirming:
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Old 2010-09-29, 17:56   Link #27317
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Last chapter I'll have posted for a little while at least.

...

Doesn't help my muse is writing out chapters for future events before I can get to them.

ANYWAY!

Big thanks to Raiser for all his help.

Day in the Life

Chapter 41

Spoiler for Reaffirming:
Really liked the quality time Fate and Yuuno had this chapter Everything else was good too
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Old 2010-09-30, 00:53   Link #27318
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Last chapter I'll have posted for a little while at least.

...

Doesn't help my muse is writing out chapters for future events before I can get to them.

ANYWAY!

Big thanks to Raiser for all his help.

Day in the Life

Chapter 41

Spoiler for Reaffirming:
Fate and Yuuno so cute together, and quirky maid are pure win. Interesting how hertwarming and heartwrenching Subaru/Touma interaction can be...
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Old 2010-09-30, 15:37   Link #27319
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Einhart and Vivio have promised to get the plot back to ViVid.

Or at least, that's what they tell themselves.
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Old 2010-09-30, 16:06   Link #27320
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Future Tense

Chapter 19: Family, Part 1


In which Nanoha meets some interesting people, and learns a shocking truth behind Carim's desperate gamble...

Previous chapters can be found here.

Spoiler for Future Tense, Chapter 19: Family, Part 1:
Spoiler for Comments:


And I'm personally of the opinion that it's believable for Ixy to jump at an opportunity to live like a kid after never having that chance in her early life. Doesn't feel too OOC to me, especially after the tweaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempy View Post
Hey Nanya. You asked for it, so here it is.

Spoiler for Side Due X:
Ahh, compromising positions. Always such a goldmine for comedy.

Not to mention Due gnawing on Kevin's ear. And his reaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
ANYWAY!

BIG thanks to Raiser for his help.

For everyone waiting...

Day in the Life...

Chapter 40...

The title is...

Spoiler for Death:


Spoiler for Notes:
Spoiler for Comments:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Last chapter I'll have posted for a little while at least.

...

Doesn't help my muse is writing out chapters for future events before I can get to them.

ANYWAY!

Big thanks to Raiser for all his help.

Day in the Life

Chapter 41

Spoiler for Reaffirming:
Spoiler for Comments:
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