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Old 2012-01-05, 01:57   Link #35441
Old_Iron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
I'm unable to form a coherent opinion, due to varying levels of canon and fanon.
That was mostly a joke, since so far in this chapter it looks more like Signum is taking advantage of Yuuno rather than the other way around that Zwei is warning Yuuno about.

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I supposed I read too much into before, because it felt like saying that Yuuno had no place on the battlefield.

My own interpretations of the canon, as well as Yuuno's revealed and expanded capabilities in Gears of Destiny, would not agree with that idea. Nanoha herself even says that Yuuno's (deviceless) defense is much better than hers, and that she (powerhouse that she is) cannot penetrate his defenses without going all-out with an attack.

Of course, she may just be saying that Yuuno is happier and more at home being a scholar than a soldier, and I can't disagree with that at all. It's true, for all that Yuuno actively throws himself into danger to protect others, he's happier when he doesn't have to fight.

Indeed, it's even possible that he doesn't particularly like friendly sparring, or feel any inclination to engage in martial sport.

But while possible, that's never been conclusively stated or shown. Perhaps Yuuno does have some pride and competitive spirit in regards to his combat ability.

How much is the "canonical" Nanoha relegating Yuuno "to the kitchen" in her conceptions? How much is your version of Nanoha doing that?
I think that GoD throws quite a bit of what we know about Nanoha and Yuuno's relationship out the window, so far as I can tell. Not to mention what we know about Yuuno's combat preferences. I think that if he didn't have some pride or competitive spirit, Yuuno wouldn't have developed a combat style that functions as it does.

So far as Yuuno being told to make Nanoha a sandwich goes... I think that canon Nanoha feels that since she has power to protect Yuuno from enemies as she did for the majority of early S1, she must continue to do so whether or not he wants her to. It just so happens that his appointment to the Infinity Library and his enjoyment of the job helps to facilitate this mindset.

My Nanoha is coming from a similar viewpoint. The difference being that she knows Yuuno doesn't need to be protected from enemies, but she'd rather he choose to stay safe and let her protect him anyway. If he wants to train himself, that's fine too.

Quote:
Would either of them be thinking that way after knowing that Yuuno could defeat the likes of Stern the Destructor (an event that did not happen before the Sound Stage was made or your story was begun, and thus had no impact on their "canon")?

Would Nanoha be as upset about this development if it were anyone other than "kind, gentle Yuuno"?

How much of her displeasure stems from disaproval of the character trait itself? Did she previously feel uncomfortable about the trait in Signum? Does she feel that NO ONE should fight with such urges?
I think that after taking down Stern, Yuuno's combat recognition would skyrocket. Since he effectively trounced an 'evil' super-Nanoha single-handedly. The TSAB would be wanting to get him trained with proper combat skills and field him. Possibly the fourth 'Ace'?

I don't think she'd be as upset if it were anyone other than Yuuno. Since his new combat stance is so opposed to his previous one and how violent he's behaving while using it. Its less the urges themselves, but who those urges are affecting. And I doubt that Nanoha would think that such a mindset is a bad thing, its just not something she wants Yuuno to have.

I doubt that her displeasure comes from the trait, but rather with who is displaying it. Imagine how you'd feel if someone you'd been really close to for many years suddenly went and did something that is antithesis to everything that you knew about them. It would be unsettling at the very least depending on what the new action was.

Quote:
In short, I'm having trouble forming an opinion on who is "right", and what I personally feel is "best" for Yuuno.

And how much of this is a previously undeveloped part of Yuuno's personality, and how much does it derive from his usual drive to give others what they want? Is he doing this because he wants to, or because it is something within his power to give to Signum?
Maybe you'll have a better idea when I post the next chapter?

This started as a combination of wanting to improve himself and not wanting to disappoint Signum, who he has a level of attraction to. Though it was more of the former until he saw that Signum was becoming dissatisfied in their first fight, then it shifted to the latter and his improvement simply came along for the ride.

The next two matches are him using his desire to give Signum a good fight as a catalyst for his own improvement. Its kind of a mix of the two at this point.

Quote:
Signum addressed that; she was fighting for victory. Nanoha wanted to win.

Yuuno is trying to defeat and dominate Signum.

Domination is more concerned with the opponent, whereas Victory is more impersonal. For example, Victory can be achieved through time-out, or a judge declaring a technical victory, or achieving some other sort of goal.

Domination can only be achieved by knocking the opponent unconscious, forcing them to surrender, or killing them.
Well said.

I hope my reply made sense XD
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Old 2012-01-05, 02:08   Link #35442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post

Signum addressed that; she was fighting for victory. Nanoha wanted to win.

Yuuno is trying to defeat and dominate Signum.

Domination is more concerned with the opponent, whereas Victory is more impersonal. For example, Victory can be achieved through time-out, or a judge declaring a technical victory, or achieving some other sort of goal.

Domination can only be achieved by knocking the opponent unconscious, forcing them to surrender, or killing them.
Oh? It's been a while since I've read that part. I remembered that Nanoha had that look in her eyes in that pic.
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Old 2012-01-05, 02:47   Link #35443
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Well, I'm going by what Old Iron has had Signum say, rather than what I may or may not have seen in the manga.

I'd have to go back and look.

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Originally Posted by Old_Iron View Post
I think that GoD throws quite a bit of what we know about Nanoha and Yuuno's relationship out the window, so far as I can tell.
I already wanted to declare discontinuity on StrikerS, anyway.

Still, StrikerS does point out that Nanoha still continued to learn spells from Yuuno after A's, since he's the one who taught her Chain Bind, and likely also Physical Heal. I'd bet money he taught her the Chain Shield she shows in ViVid, too.

But as an aspiring combat instructor, surely she would spar with Yuuno. And help him master Shooting magic more advanced than Shoot Barret, though I don't see him doing any Bombardment.

There's also Vita seeking him out for a rematch, and the Wolkenritters' gratitude for him helping Hayate create Reinforce Zwei.

...Which may not happen in the PSP continuity, if Eins is taking care of that by herself. Do you think Yuuno has any help to offer, with her there?


Quote:
Not to mention what we know about Yuuno's combat preferences. I think that if he didn't have some pride or competitive spirit, Yuuno wouldn't have developed a combat style that functions as it does.
To be the devil's advocate:

He doesn't need pride or aggression if he developed combat skills for the purpose of protecting his clan mates, just like you don't have to like cooking to have a reason to learn how to feed your loved ones.


Quote:
I think that after taking down Stern, Yuuno's combat recognition would skyrocket. Since he effectively trounced an 'evil' super-Nanoha single-handedly. The TSAB would be wanting to get him trained with proper combat skills and field him. Possibly the fourth 'Ace'?
But he didn't fight Stern. Not if the player chooses Nanoha. And you'll probably never get a consensus from the fanbase on which fight "means more", or if Yuuno deserves the screen time.

Of the people he definitely fights and defeats (those whom everyone still remembers afterward, anyway), there's Amitie (who was suffering from a virus) and the Lieze Twins.

Now, the Lieze Twins ARE relatively well-known in the TSAB as combat instructors, and experts in their different combat fields. To defeat both of them at once is a note-worthy accomplishment.

Whatever the TSAB offers or asks Yuuno, if he wanted to improve his combat skills with the intent of moonlighting as a field operative, I'm pretty sure they'd gladly accommodate him. And whatever else, they DO want someone to clean up that Library.

And working in the Library IS the way that he can best help the most people, especially since he's the only one who is willing and able to do that job.


Quote:
This started as a combination of wanting to improve himself and not wanting to disappoint Signum, who he has a level of attraction to. Though it was more of the former until he saw that Signum was becoming dissatisfied in their first fight, then it shifted to the latter and his improvement simply came along for the ride.

The next two matches are him using his desire to give Signum a good fight as a catalyst for his own improvement. Its kind of a mix of the two at this point.
Yes, I rather forgot that his first appearance in this story involved him undergoing training to surpass his limitations. I'm glad that you had him mention to Rein that he'd hit a plateau, because it ties back into that earlier element.

He's changed which aspect of his skills he's trying to surpass (offensive punch instead of flexible agility), but the fact remains that he's trying to overcome a weakness.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-01-07 at 15:31. Reason: don't double-post
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Old 2012-01-05, 11:59   Link #35444
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Just some randomness.

Spoiler:
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Last edited by WarpObscura; 2012-01-05 at 21:53. Reason: Details
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Old 2012-01-05, 12:56   Link #35445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
Just some randomness.
That's a bit creepy.

Hanging on his back via flight with a perfectly straight face would be cute, but I'm not even sure that's what was being described. It sounded more like she was partially merged with him in a disturbing variant of Unison.

Speaking in perfect sync and confusing gender lines (or hell, lines of individual identity) only adds to that impression.
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:12   Link #35446
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StrikerS 1-35

StrikerS 36

StrikerS 37

StrikerS 38

StrikerS 39

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 40:
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:21   Link #35447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
StrikerS 1-35

StrikerS 36

StrikerS 37

StrikerS 38

StrikerS 39

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 40:
Me: When will Zest and Quint will, once again, do the big damn heroes just for Nove receive a motherly hug(read: bear-hug) from Quint?

Odin: With this commotion, it will be soon.

Val: I'm sure both faction will be wishing they bashed themselves silly when Levi and Quattro revealed themselves...

Me: Oh Nanya-muse!!! We got another dozen box of cinnamon rolls and a truckful of stolen muses... *points outside at the parked truck*
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:26   Link #35448
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Nine lives of payback is coming your way, Erio ! lol
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Old 2012-01-05, 21:53   Link #35449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
That's a bit creepy.

Hanging on his back via flight with a perfectly straight face would be cute, but I'm not even sure that's what was being described. It sounded more like she was partially merged with him in a disturbing variant of Unison.

Speaking in perfect sync and confusing gender lines (or hell, lines of individual identity) only adds to that impression.
Huh, I didn't deliberately intend for it to be creepy... Went and changed some details.
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Old 2012-01-06, 03:08   Link #35450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpObscura View Post
Huh, I didn't deliberately intend for it to be creepy... Went and changed some details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold View Post
That's a bit creepy.

Hanging on his back via flight with a perfectly straight face would be cute, but I'm not even sure that's what was being described. It sounded more like she was partially merged with him in a disturbing variant of Unison.

Speaking in perfect sync and confusing gender lines (or hell, lines of individual identity) only adds to that impression.

I didn't get a good mental picture of what was happening either...

Then I looked at Warp's avatar, and it all became clear.

After both readings, this is better. I had a similar problem to what Sunder the Gold did.

Last edited by GaelicDragon; 2012-01-06 at 03:21.
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Old 2012-01-06, 03:53   Link #35451
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Shh! Spoiler that! You're giving the joke away!
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Old 2012-01-06, 13:14   Link #35452
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StrikerS 1-40

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 41:
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Old 2012-01-06, 13:21   Link #35453
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My second Snippet for MadScientist Fate-chan

Spoiler for Snippet #2:
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Old 2012-01-06, 18:14   Link #35454
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
StrikerS 1-40

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 41:
Mariemeia: Maimers of the bunny hat: 2. Vita pounding the maimers: 2

Me, Val and Odin: Ah Shut up Marie! *wacks her with a trio of paper fan.*

Odin: *stow away paper fan* Talk about payback....
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And I can't still make fanfic without restarting from the start when new ideas comes in...
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Old 2012-01-06, 21:00   Link #35455
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Wish my ears weren't ringing so much.

StrikerS 1-40

StrikerS 41

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 42:
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Old 2012-01-06, 23:46   Link #35456
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Wish my ears weren't ringing so much.

StrikerS 1-40

StrikerS 41

Spoiler for Blood That Flows - StrikerS 42:
Me: MOAR!!! MOAR!!!!!!!!!

Odin: You just broke your usually record of 1/day update... I think we like it, right guys?

Val: Yup!

Reia: Hai! Hai!

Iris: Hai!

Sarah: *nods*

Mariemeia: HELL YEAH!!!!

Ami: Yes.

Elane: Do it again!!!!

Me: Btw... Nove pull out The Super Inazuma Kick from Gunbuster, no?
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Darwin's nominee are best for laughs.
MGLN "Befriending" shows love thru superior firepower (Zenryokou Zenkai!)
Gundams are your worst nightmare in the battlefield.
SRW beats all foes.
JAM Project pwns all!!!

And I can't still make fanfic without restarting from the start when new ideas comes in...
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Old 2012-01-07, 00:58   Link #35457
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Originally Posted by Old_Iron View Post
Sorry that this took so long and I apologize that its not as long as the others. But I hope you enjoy it all the same.

Major credit goes to Kuroi Hadou for beta-ing this chapter and helping me get off my sorry arse.

Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3a
Chapter 3b

Spoiler for Swords and Shields: Chapter 4:
You did it again, a new interesting chapter xD!

I like that both Nanoha and Signum have pros and cons on their arguments.

Nanoha is right in that Signum is unaware of how easily she's letting herself be carried on by her opinions and feeling and thus having unexpected and exaggerated reaction like beating Fate for the sake of teaching her a "lesson" but she's overlooking all the progress Yuuno is making as also Signum's pretty valid points on the matter(probably a bit biased by her preocupation for her close friend).

The Blazing General is right on wanting to pursue excellence and improvement but she slowly started to loose her grasp on earth to the point of feeling indignation at opponents not taking fights as seriously as her and/or taking advices/warnings as direct offenses(also probably bbiased by the newfound excitement she's getting by training with him). I doubt she goes to the lenghts of "disspose of Yuuno when she gets bored" as Nanoha claims but the Ace of Aces is right that signum is definetely not her usual self.

Yuuno's word on the matter will be very important for the developement of the story xD!

I'll keep waiting for the next chapter, keep up the good job xD!
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Old 2012-01-07, 01:44   Link #35458
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How about this for a concept?

Picture if you will a world where magic isn't a fantasy but a known fact...

We would be in a magical arms race. Young girls and boys would be drafted and indoctrinated into the magical military at young ages to be trained to defend their countries from various threats including other magical military powers.

It would be the duty of various International Organizations to create magical weapon arms treaties to lower the number of these (Magical Weapons of Mass Destruction) MWMD's.

Scientists and psychologists would dedicate their time to creating artificial scenarios to induce tragic pasts on unsuspecting children to awaken their magical powers putting them on the path to becoming powerful magical warriors.

It would be a world of constant war and chaos where only the strongest and prettiest survive.

It would be hell...It would be Earth 20XX A.M. (After Magic)
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Old 2012-01-07, 02:07   Link #35459
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With Nanoha class mages ? Earth is in the same Dimensional sea right ? But when ? The Old Belkan Wars , or the TSAB era , a few decades into the future?
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Old 2012-01-07, 02:20   Link #35460
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With Nanoha class mages ? Earth is in the same Dimensional sea right ? But when ? The Old Belkan Wars , or the TSAB era , a few decades into the future?
According to canon I believe it is said that it's rare for mages to be born on earth but when they are they tend to be the most powerful mages of all. Remember when Nanoha was awakened she was measured as AAA rank.

In few decades in the future it is suppose to be the After Magic era you the world becomes aware of magic.
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