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Old 2008-02-01, 12:10   Link #801
krisslanza
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Nanoha and Fate will do it anywhere eh? They are like bunnies At least now Fate knows how Nanoha felt touching her sticky hand in SbtB...

@Keith:
Well... That is very hard to say. Nanoha and Yggdra Union are on two very different levels of "power". Nanoha has individuals with massive power. Yggdra Union is about armies clashing against other armies, this isn't Dynasty Warriors where a single character wipes out a army single-handedly (Although I betcha Gulcasa could do it...). Really not a single character in Yggdra Union could probably stand much of a chance against a character of Nanoha's strength, unless she was somehow weakened... She is a S+ mage after all. Characters of perhaps Teana or Subaru's level, B rank, might be more reasonable as they aren't all that uberly powerful.
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Old 2008-02-01, 12:35   Link #802
Gillian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Challenged. Short. N/F in car. >: D

Spoiler for NSFW, implied lemon actions:
entertaining as always
Spoiler:


@Satashi
May I ask, how far are you with SbtB X?


Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Nanoha and Fate will do it anywhere eh? They are like bunnies At least now Fate knows how Nanoha felt touching her sticky hand in SbtB...

@Keith:
Well... That is very hard to say. Nanoha and Yggdra Union are on two very different levels of "power". Nanoha has individuals with massive power. Yggdra Union is about armies clashing against other armies, this isn't Dynasty Warriors where a single character wipes out a army single-handedly (Although I betcha Gulcasa could do it...). Really not a single character in Yggdra Union could probably stand much of a chance against a character of Nanoha's strength, unless she was somehow weakened... She is a S+ mage after all. Characters of perhaps Teana or Subaru's level, B rank, might be more reasonable as they aren't all that uberly powerful.
hm, Yggdra Union looks interesting

maybe I should look it

Last edited by Gillian; 2008-02-01 at 13:09.
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Old 2008-02-01, 13:42   Link #803
Satashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
Nanoha and Fate will do it anywhere eh? They are like bunnies At least now Fate knows how Nanoha felt touching her sticky hand in SbtB...
I almost feel bad for both of them. Then I realize I'm just jealous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gillian View Post
entertaining as always
Spoiler:


@Satashi
May I ask, how far are you with SbtB X?
3.5k words. Been busy lately with WoW.

No short today, using the time to write a little in SbtB
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Old 2008-02-01, 14:24   Link #804
krisslanza
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I'm just jealous that I never have Fate in my dreams but somehow Nanoha will be in them... Err nothing odd happens I mean but uhh... WHY NO FATE-CHAN!?
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Old 2008-02-01, 14:57   Link #805
Gillian
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Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
I'm just jealous that I never have Fate in my dreams but somehow Nanoha will be in them... Err nothing odd happens I mean but uhh... WHY NO FATE-CHAN!?
yes
would be a nice inspiration



thx satashi-sama
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:08   Link #806
Satashi
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Okay here's something that's been bothering me.

Doesn't it seem that out of the fan works, fanfiction gets shafted the most? Like, gets slapped with more criticism, has less tolerance, and done the least.

For example: the Nanoha 4koma that everyone loves. Hayate is a cosplay queen, Nanoha is an evil hell bent power blasting demon that kills everything, Fate is a horny teen who will stop at nothing from seducing Nanoha... They do things that are 100% not their character. The plot line of the comics is almost a 95% direct rip from the anime itself. Does anyone complain that it's not original? No. Does anyone complain it's just like the series? No. does anyone complain that they are OOC? No. Do people widely accept this stuff as being offical fanon? Yes.

If you wrote a fanfic like that, it wouldn't fly. People would instantly claim that you're ripping off the series, that characters are OOC, that it's just not good.

So why is it that fanart is mainly OOCness but everyone loves seeing them do that. But if it's written, everyone instantly gets on your case about it?

Discuss :3
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:23   Link #807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Okay here's something that's been bothering me.

Doesn't it seem that out of the fan works, fanfiction gets shafted the most? Like, gets slapped with more criticism, has less tolerance, and done the least.

For example: the Nanoha 4koma that everyone loves. Hayate is a cosplay queen, Nanoha is an evil hell bent power blasting demon that kills everything, Fate is a horny teen who will stop at nothing from seducing Nanoha... They do things that are 100% not their character. The plot line of the comics is almost a 95% direct rip from the anime itself. Does anyone complain that it's not original? No. Does anyone complain it's just like the series? No. does anyone complain that they are OOC? No. Do people widely accept this stuff as being offical fanon? Yes.

If you wrote a fanfic like that, it wouldn't fly. People would instantly claim that you're ripping off the series, that characters are OOC, that it's just not good.

So why is it that fanart is mainly OOCness but everyone loves seeing them do that. But if it's written, everyone instantly gets on your case about it?

Discuss :3
Simple: Imagery.

With pictures, and doujins, it's easier to accept that it's blatantly OOC because it's there, in black and white and all other colours of the rainbow. It's a classical what-you-see-what-you-get scenario.

With fanfictions it's hard. Why: You're dealing with words. You have to paint the image you want to convey into their head. And most of all, people are looking for stories that are based on the anime, or draw elements from the anime.

Because you've got to realize, with fanart they're taking the physical elements of the characters and putting them into whatever scenario the artist so desires.

Fanfiction does not allow that leeway. Because if you just take their name, you are essentially creating a whole new character which is utterly different from the one you've come to be familiar with.

I'm not sure if I got my point across, but that's how it always worked, and how I had always understood it.

If you want me to elaborate further, just ask.
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:26   Link #808
SpaceBrotha
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
If you wrote a fanfic like that, it wouldn't fly. People would instantly claim that you're ripping off the series, that characters are OOC, that it's just not good.

So why is it that fanart is mainly OOCness but everyone loves seeing them do that. But if it's written, everyone instantly gets on your case about it?

Discuss :3
That's an easy one: Because no one takes the 4komas seriously, they expect it to be parody and comedy above all else so they don't get on anyone's case about it.

But when it's something like fanfiction, it's usually read with a bit more serious attitude than any 4koma... or doujin for that matter.

You could say that people come to read fanfiction meaning business

Then again, there's all the downright insane crack that's floating around here and the OC thread... and you don't get that many people who protest against it either...

and to be completely honest, you've included a bit of quirks to the characters that aren't exactly shown in the serie itself... But no one minds because most of us love the way you write the story, so little things like quirky characters can be forgiven... especially since they only add to the overall enjoyment of your stories.

So it's not like we're completely unforgiving to OOC, but we let it slide if it's not too heavy, or done with a good reason
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:43   Link #809
Satashi
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and my OOCness in SbtB? What do you people think about it?
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Old 2008-02-01, 16:48   Link #810
Sam the Onion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Okay here's something that's been bothering me.

Doesn't it seem that out of the fan works, fanfiction gets shafted the most? Like, gets slapped with more criticism, has less tolerance, and done the least.

For example: the Nanoha 4koma that everyone loves. Hayate is a cosplay queen, Nanoha is an evil hell bent power blasting demon that kills everything, Fate is a horny teen who will stop at nothing from seducing Nanoha... They do things that are 100% not their character. The plot line of the comics is almost a 95% direct rip from the anime itself. Does anyone complain that it's not original? No. Does anyone complain it's just like the series? No. does anyone complain that they are OOC? No. Do people widely accept this stuff as being offical fanon? Yes.

If you wrote a fanfic like that, it wouldn't fly. People would instantly claim that you're ripping off the series, that characters are OOC, that it's just not good.

So why is it that fanart is mainly OOCness but everyone loves seeing them do that. But if it's written, everyone instantly gets on your case about it?

Discuss :3
If people started to take 4komas and drawings seriously we would have a big proplem.

Yeah, but seriously it might be because there's just more to criticize. 4koma is a small strip, a picture is a picture, but fanfic on the other hand is real text. It takes actual effort and time to read and thus there's more things to go wrong. Not to mention that most pictures and 4komas are meant to be extremely OOC just to make them more fun, which is their main purpose.

There's fanfic that's purely for fun. It's crack, which suprisingly has the same elements. It doesn't suffer from criticism, because it's not meant to be taken seriously in the first place.

Fanfiction is ucking serious business. Nothing we can do about it

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceBrotha View Post
and to be completely honest, you've included a bit of quirks to the characters that aren't exactly shown in the serie itself... But no one minds because most of us love the way you write the story, so little things like quirky characters can be forgiven... especially since they only add to the overall enjoyment of your stories.

So it's not like we're completely unforgiving to OOC, but we let it slide if it's not too heavy, or done with a good reason
There's a reason for adding more to the anime. It gives you no info even that it's slice of life. (Don't say that it's really something else. You're just fooling yourself.)

If you were to write about the characters exactly as they were in the anime, the fic would end up most likely boring and predictable. And if something isn't shown in the anime, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just because we didn't find out anything about Yuuno doesn't mean he has nothing to find out about. It's because the cast was too big for the show and half of the time was spent in something complitely irrelevant.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
and my OOCness in SbtB? What do you people think about it?
I don't see anything bad in it. You write from the dark times, that nobody even knows about. As long as the concept of the character stays the same and you don't go waaay overboard with OOC, which you have only done in that shortie where Fate was playing and Nanoha stripping but that was crack (read above for more if you didn't already), I don't really see a proplem with it.

Last edited by Sam the Onion; 2008-02-01 at 17:15.
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Old 2008-02-01, 17:10   Link #811
Gillian
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
and my OOCness in SbtB? What do you people think about it?
I think its really good to see Fate and Nanoha in an other light, then usual


by the way:
where I found this 4komas?

seems interesting
*curious of the seducing fate*
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Old 2008-02-01, 17:10   Link #812
Kirika-chan
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Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
and my OOCness in SbtB? What do you people think about it?
I think it's not bad, because you keep the same character for every figure. And I don't know why but I find a similarities in the figures in your fic and the original serie.

... Well, it's not really >_> hum...Yeah. Sorry it's not very english XD!

But OOC it's good (sometimes) and if the work is good I see no problem with that.

For me, I don't really like "crossover" but it's only my opinion. ^^"
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Old 2008-02-01, 17:32   Link #813
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I think as noted before its cause its a parody, and by definition, no one really takes that all that seriously.

Although on the other hand I have read some drop dead bad doujins also, I think that it's that there are more elements that makes a good doujin than fic. Is the art good? Is the graphic design good? Are the characters easily recognized? Is the camera in the best places that show the action? Are text easy to read and bubbles not in the way (This is more important than people think it is)? Then there is the concern of story and characters.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that since there is so many elements if one or two of them are a little below par, it's almost forgivable for many if the rest are good. However, a written work drives at story and characters, if those aren't good, well it's not going to do well in general.

My final point I guess is that even though the goal is the same (tell a story to entertain the viewers) they actually are a little different, and therefore judged differently, whether one is more difficult than others, I'm gonna use the cheap way out and just say they are both really difficult just in different ways.
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Old 2008-02-01, 19:15   Link #814
arkhangelsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krisslanza View Post
@Keith:
Well... That is very hard to say. Nanoha and Yggdra Union are on two very different levels of "power". Nanoha has individuals with massive power. Yggdra Union is about armies clashing against other armies, this isn't Dynasty Warriors where a single character wipes out a army single-handedly (Although I betcha Gulcasa could do it...). Really not a single character in Yggdra Union could probably stand much of a chance against a character of Nanoha's strength, unless she was somehow weakened... She is a S+ mage after all. Characters of perhaps Teana or Subaru's level, B rank, might be more reasonable as they aren't all that uberly powerful.
Here's one way to make it work: Since Yggdra Union is about tactics, try making that their strong point. I'm assuming you want them to cooperate somehow. The enemy will be one that requires tactics and large forces to beat, not just aces with Blaster 10s. And we all know the tactical ability of the TSAB and its aces. Try and make something out of that.
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Old 2008-02-01, 20:42   Link #815
Gilraen Isilra
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Spoiler for Good morning Vivio:


Okie now this is not so off-topic I LOLed at this and got the idea for this.

Spoiler for The Mom Song:


Spoiler for Lyrics:
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Old 2008-02-01, 20:46   Link #816
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Spoiler for Good Evening Vivio:
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Old 2008-02-02, 01:05   Link #817
HoyaSaxa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Okay here's something that's been bothering me.

Doesn't it seem that out of the fan works, fanfiction gets shafted the most? Like, gets slapped with more criticism, has less tolerance, and done the least.

For example: the Nanoha 4koma that everyone loves. Hayate is a cosplay queen, Nanoha is an evil hell bent power blasting demon that kills everything, Fate is a horny teen who will stop at nothing from seducing Nanoha... They do things that are 100% not their character. The plot line of the comics is almost a 95% direct rip from the anime itself. Does anyone complain that it's not original? No. Does anyone complain it's just like the series? No. does anyone complain that they are OOC? No. Do people widely accept this stuff as being offical fanon? Yes.

If you wrote a fanfic like that, it wouldn't fly. People would instantly claim that you're ripping off the series, that characters are OOC, that it's just not good.

So why is it that fanart is mainly OOCness but everyone loves seeing them do that. But if it's written, everyone instantly gets on your case about it?

Discuss :3
I definitely agree that fanfiction gets no respect from most fans. Aside from those active in the communities, either by writing or reading in it, fanfics are tolerated at best, disregarded and/or flamed at worst. I think a lot has to do with how many people view fanfiction as merely an exercise in "wish fulfillment," and unforunately that usually translates to a poorly disguised self-insertion. One has to admit that the vast majority of fanfiction at a place like fanfiction.net is trash. Especially in those popular fandoms like Harry Potter, Mary Sue syndrome abounds. It wasn't until my later years in high school that I realized people who wrote decent fanfics usually maintained their own websites or published somewhere other than fanfiction.net.

Practically everyone I know has taken a crack at my fondness for fanfiction; those that are aware at least. I don't advertise the fact that I like fanfiction because the majority of my friends would have no idea what I meant, and if they did, ridicule me further.

I once asked this question at certain imageboards I frequent, and the majority of responses I got were less than friendly. Then again, I don't go there for the scintillating conversation, lol.

To be as succinct as possible- people see fanfiction and fanfiction writers as being failures at life.
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Old 2008-02-02, 04:28   Link #818
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*delurks*

Hi all, first time posting in this forum. Delurked because... well, I hoped that I could help with the fanfiction discussion.

This issue that Satashi raised struck close to my heart because I live off both fanfiction, comics and manga. I'm not an author, but I've been reading fanfiction for roughly... 8 years? So here I am, offering my experiences with these two forms of media.

One basic assumption that all fandoms have, whether it's fanfiction, doujin or digital manips is that it's FAN-based. That is, an extention of canon.

Most doujins achieve that by exaggerating certain quirks or characteristics that most fans relate too, whether serious or just simply to make fun of. Comics need to grab the attention of people with limited "real estate". Something like caricatures. Thus, you have the Pwning!Nanoha and CosplayObsessed!Hayate in the Nanoha 4koma. Throw in a little imagination with Fate's perpetual blushing and closeness with Nanoha, and you have Bunny&Jealous!Fate.

While it's a different ballgame with fanfiction simply because it's wordbased, the principle is the same. The hallmark of most successful fanfiction in most other fandoms achieve that. In the EriolxTomoyo fandom from CCS for example (which isn't a canon couple), most fics are done featuring two seriously manipulative and intelligent people (let the mind games begin!). Draco Malfoy from HP, whether he's with Ginny, Hermione, Harry, Pansy or multi-somes is witty/ sarcastic if it's a lighthearted fic, obsessive and violent if it's a dark fic. These are all characteristics found from canon. I'll skip the fanfiction recommendation part, or this post will never end. :P

This is why fanfiction have a higher tendency to be flamed for being OOC by reviewers and critics - not everyone can do a doujin, but anyone who can read and write can do a fanfiction. And fanfiction which lose a character's basic essence is... well, usually not well written because it can't appeal to fans.

I will declare that I'm a huge fan of Satashi's works, including SbtB at this point of time, in case people start assuming that I dislike fanfiction that add in new character quirks or deviate from original ones.

I believe that fanfiction like Satashi's, although not following the above mentioned principle are still quite well done simply because the additions are belivable and complement original characteristics. So, while I feel uncomfortable reading Fate and Nanoha screaming into pillows from frustration (my inner canon-character-police at work - they have always given me the impression they like hiding problems until everything falls apart), it goes in line with their tendency of keeping their troubles to themselves. It helps that it's well written, and these are very common reactions, thus being easy to imagine.

So, yea. OOC-ness doesn't necessarily make a fanfiction bad, it's unbelivable OOC-ness that drives readers to want to protect their favourite characters by flaming, etc. Because unbelivable OOC-ness immediately gives the impression that it was written to satisfy inner fantasies, etc like it was mentioned above. This level of "unbelivable" is highly subjective. So if your fic can appeal to a mass audience, I'll say it's belivable.

Right. End of post. My two cent's worth. Hope this helped, and was understandable. Will be happy to further discuss this.

*goes back to squirming while waiting for SbtB X*

Last edited by Racerin; 2008-02-02 at 04:46. Reason: Spelling
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Old 2008-02-02, 10:01   Link #819
Satashi
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In order to keep this post from being like 2,000 words, I'll just give a thanks to everyone who replied All really good comments and suggestions on why it's like that. Gave me a good incite on how to write and what to avoid, so I'm happy I got such good replies ^_^

@Racerin: I hope you stop being a lurker and talk to us here ^^

@thread: SbtB X will be released today.
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Old 2008-02-02, 11:16   Link #820
Gillian
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@thread: SbtB X will be released today.
cannot wait for it
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