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Old 2008-09-09, 12:41   Link #8881
Jimmy C
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker117 View Post
It is 6 years after the JS incident and scientific and technological advancement has allowed the TSAB to explore further than ever before. However some complications arose with a neighboring empire and a conflict ensued which quickly escalated into a galactic war. The new enemy was far more technologically advanced as magic users were a rarity among them, this made them superiors in outer atmospheric battles but the TSAB had the upper hand in atmospheric battles. Not much is known about the enemy as the conferences broke down soon after discovering them, it appears they wish to be the supreme power in the galaxy and will do whatever it takes to achieve their goal.

3 years after the wars start it appeared no side would be yielding anytime soon as territory was lost and retaken in and endless cycle. Neither side was any closer to the others capital so apart from military recruitment and rising prices all seems well in the central provinces of TSAB space. Far from the battlefields 3 girls unknown to each other decide to do their part and sign up for the TSAB not knowing that one decision would change their lives more than they could ever imagine.
I've also toyed with pitting the TSAB against an aggressive transdimensional empire. I don't know what details you have planned, but perhaps I can still offer some tips.
From what I can currently see, the TSAB is screwed. Being tech-based, everyone has access to firepower that could match an A-rank mage in destructiveness, if not more. Considering how everyone in every season of Nanoha complains about the lack of capable mages, Bureau forces could be outnumbered 100 to 1 by this empire. And all one hundred of them would be able to command A-rank firepower unlike the 1 mage who would typically be below A-rank.
Next, you've portrayed this empire as desiring to be the supreme power in the galaxy, that means they remember the lessons of war that the TSAB has deliberately forgotten. Which means they will have superior tactics and strategy.
Third, is the Bureau is the only significant adversary this empire currently has? If they are, then this empire can concentrate its forces on destroying the Bureau fleet. That would reduce the Bureau's force-project significantly.
Finally, I look forward to seeing how you care to explain the Bureau's superiority in atmospheric combat. Based on our own, I'd say any civilization with advanced space combat technology should have developed equally advanced air combat technology as well. If you are thinking that a flying mage can be untrackable by anti-air systems, I'm sure our more mil-minded members can shake that notion from you. In fact, I do believe we discussed the possibility of an aerial mage evading a heat-seeking missle a few months ago, the outcome didn't look good for the mage.
I look forward to seeing how you'll deal with these issues.
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Old 2008-09-09, 13:04   Link #8882
Striker117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I've also toyed with pitting the TSAB against an aggressive transdimensional empire. I don't know what details you have planned, but perhaps I can still offer some tips.
From what I can currently see, the TSAB is screwed. Being tech-based, everyone has access to firepower that could match an A-rank mage in destructiveness, if not more. Considering how everyone in every season of Nanoha complains about the lack of capable mages, Bureau forces could be outnumbered 100 to 1 by this empire. And all one hundred of them would be able to command A-rank firepower unlike the 1 mage who would typically be below A-rank.
Next, you've portrayed this empire as desiring to be the supreme power in the galaxy, that means they remember the lessons of war that the TSAB has deliberately forgotten. Which means they will have superior tactics and strategy.
Third, is the Bureau is the only significant adversary this empire currently has? If they are, then this empire can concentrate its forces on destroying the Bureau fleet. That would reduce the Bureau's force-project significantly.
Finally, I look forward to seeing how you care to explain the Bureau's superiority in atmospheric combat. Based on our own, I'd say any civilization with advanced space combat technology should have developed equally advanced air combat technology as well. If you are thinking that a flying mage can be untrackable by anti-air systems, I'm sure our more mil-minded members can shake that notion from you. In fact, I do believe we discussed the possibility of an aerial mage evading a heat-seeking missle a few months ago, the outcome didn't look good for the mage.
I look forward to seeing how you'll deal with these issues.
I can answer two of your questions straight up.
First: The TSAB's atmospheric superiority comes from the fact the enemies in my story use plasma based weaponry, so magic shields and barrier jackets work well in defense. As for missile attacks, in most cases in our world you can't really shake a heat-seeker anyway and usually have to have allies intercept or use decoys. My theory is that if a mage concentrates some magical energy and super heats or overloads it whatever you prefer it over their own body-temp and dumps it in the missiles path then the missile may or may not change target.

Second: As i wrote somewhere in the start of the first chapter "Humans with magical power have almost tripled in number and power" indicating that TSAB forces are also getting a considerable boost to thier forces.

To tell the truth some of the other stuff i'm undecided on, i've thought of many possible outcomes and im weighing the pros and cons of them to see which way ill go but they will be addressed eventually you'll just have to wait and see.

Hope that answers some questions for you.
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Old 2008-09-09, 13:20   Link #8883
Knight of L-sama
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Writing update~

I don't know if I forgot to mention it, so I is mentioning again.

SC2 is up on FF.net up to the third chapter. The ff.net version includes revisions done between when I posted each chapter here and when I posted them on ff.net (so they're a fair bit cleaner, IMO)

Artist!Fate is also similarly edited and posted on ff.net (tho not as edited as SC2)

Linkage:

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4504284/...agical_What_If
and
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4502974/...ION_POINT_Fate

[bows... and then runs]

Edit:
@Striker-117 Mikazuki strikes me as a cross between Syn (blue-red heterochromatic smart ass?) and Fate (whose white cape I believe may partially be a sign of her rank rather than being a signature Fate-symbol). She has her own history though, so I reserve judgment beyond that.
Spoiler for More on that:


Ooh, and that reminds me, SC2 has it's own storyline separate from SC1 (I'm seriously beginning to doubt that it even qualifies as a sequel) that involves "a neighboring galaxy". I don't believe it's hostile though, so it may not be the same as Strikers-117's world. Ah.. time will tell.

Last edited by Knight of L-sama; 2008-09-09 at 13:48.
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Old 2008-09-09, 13:28   Link #8884
Evangelion Xgouki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker117 View Post
I can answer two of your questions straight up.
First: The TSAB's atmospheric superiority comes from the fact the enemies in my story use plasma based weaponry, so magic shields and barrier jackets work well in defense.
I'm not sure how this relates specifically to plasma-based weapons. The barriers/shields used by mages already can defend against physical as well as magic assaults (as explained in the manga). How well they can defend would depend on the incoming attack and the abilities of the mage. Like a Rank D mage could defend against normal normal gunt weapons but they can't put enough into their barriers to defend against an artillery-type attack while someone who specializes in defenses like Yuuno could block the attack.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Striker117 View Post
As for missile attacks, in most cases in our world you can't really shake a heat-seeker anyway and usually have to have allies intercept or use decoys. My theory is that if a mage concentrates some magical energy and super heats or overloads it whatever you prefer it over their own body-temp and dumps it in the missiles path then the missile may or may not change target.
That seems a bit difficult to fathom. Heat seeking missiles are able to work against aircraft and vehicles because they generate a lot of heat from their engines and anti-heat seeking missiles systems used decoys that generate MORE heat than the vehicle/aircraft. To have a missile track a normal person's heat signature would be dealing with a narrow heat spectrum that can be generated by a lot of other things. Sometimes the normal air can be hotter than a person. If they tried to target a mage and they were over a civilian area, things like stoves, fires, car engines, or even asphault in the afternoon sun would be hotter and attract the missile's attention.
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Old 2008-09-09, 13:33   Link #8885
Vivio Testarossa
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:06   Link #8886
Jimmy C
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Originally Posted by Striker117 View Post
The TSAB's atmospheric superiority comes from the fact the enemies in my story use plasma based weaponry, so magic shields and barrier jackets work well in defense.
That could work. But you have the war lasting 3 years already. If this empire hasn't figured out they need to switch anti-air weapons to kill aerial mages yet, I'm really disappointed. Still, that's only half the problem. How is an aerial mage an effective anti-fighter platform? Simply being more manuverable is not enough. Does the mage have attacks that can take out fighters at long-range? That being 20km or more. That would be short for an AA missle, but long for what we've seen of mages.

Quote:
My theory is that if a mage concentrates some magical energy and super heats or overloads it whatever you prefer it over their own body-temp and dumps it in the missiles path then the missile may or may not change target.
That's not the problem. The real problem are the speed and reaction times shown by Bureau mages in aerial combat. They're simply not suited for dodging supersonic AA missles. And a proximity blast will ruin a mage's day as badly as a direct hit.

Quote:
As i wrote somewhere in the start of the first chapter "Humans with magical power have almost tripled in number and power" indicating that TSAB forces are also getting a considerable boost to thier forces.
I admit, I missed that line. But a threefold increase isn't enough. The empire still outnumbers the Bureau. Non-mages are virtually useless in the Bureau's combat doctorine. The empire can use anyone who can be trained to point and shoot a weapon. That's virtually their entire population. And they can deploy newer more effective anti-mage weapons while the Bureau's mages will always be limited by their LC power levels. Lastly, the empire doesn't follow the Bureau's regulations, so those fancy laws you mentioned only restrict the Bureau's ability to respond to the empire's developments.

Quote:
To tell the truth some of the other stuff i'm undecided on, i've thought of many possible outcomes and im weighing the pros and cons of them to see which way ill go but they will be addressed eventually you'll just have to wait and see.
I urge you to think carefully about this. If you throw the Bureau against a tech-based empire bent on galactic domination, you need very good answers as to why it hasn't overrun the Bureau yet. But if you make the empire less effective, you'll have to explain why the Bureau hasn't overrun them either.
I'll be awaiting future developments from you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelion Xgouki View Post
Sometimes the normal air can be hotter than a person. If they tried to target a mage and they were over a civilian area, things like stoves, fires, car engines, or even asphault in the afternoon sun would be hotter and attract the missile's attention.
You're thinking of early-generation heat-seekers. Newer models can track heat pattern signatures, not simply go after the hottest signals. The military already has heat sensors that can identify people, what would a more advanced civilisation have?
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:25   Link #8887
Keroko
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A point to concider Jimmy: In SSX track 6 Erio goes around blocking bullets. So mages very much have the reaction time to deal with supersonic weaponry, the anime just doesn't always show that speed.
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:28   Link #8888
Vivio Testarossa
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
That could work. But you have the war lasting 3 years already. If this empire hasn't figured out they need to switch anti-air weapons to kill aerial mages yet, I'm really disappointed. Still, that's only half the problem. How is an aerial mage an effective anti-fighter platform? Simply being more manuverable is not enough. Does the mage have attacks that can take out fighters at long-range? That being 20km or more. That would be short for an AA missle, but long for what we've seen of mages.
I doubt mages would be used alone without backup of some sort, maybe ships?


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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
That's not the problem. The real problem are the speed and reaction times shown by Bureau mages in aerial combat. They're simply not suited for dodging supersonic AA missles. And a proximity blast will ruin a mage's day as badly as a direct hit.
Maybe mages have AT Fields?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I admit, I missed that line. But a threefold increase isn't enough. The empire still outnumbers the Bureau. Non-mages are virtually useless in the Bureau's combat doctorine. The empire can use anyone who can be trained to point and shoot a weapon. That's virtually their entire population. And they can deploy newer more effective anti-mage weapons while the Bureau's mages will always be limited by their LC power levels. Lastly, the empire doesn't follow the Bureau's regulations, so those fancy laws you mentioned only restrict the Bureau's ability to respond to the empire's developments.
A greater number of individuals don't mean "The empire" is more powerful take Star Wars for example. The above also assumes all people in the empire agree with them and there are no factions that want to side with the TSAB.

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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I urge you to think carefully about this. If you throw the Bureau against a tech-based empire bent on galactic domination, you need very good answers as to why it hasn't overrun the Bureau yet. But if you make the empire less effective, you'll have to explain why the Bureau hasn't overrun them either.
I'll be awaiting future developments from you.
Maybe the villains are arrogant, and figure the the TSAB cabal isn't worth destroying...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
You're thinking of early-generation heat-seekers. Newer models can track heat pattern signatures, not simply go after the hottest signals. The military already has heat sensors that can identify people, what would a more advanced civilisation have?
Even still, the missiles can't phase through matter... so if the target there "tracking " is inside a building the missile would just hit the building...
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Old 2008-09-09, 14:39   Link #8889
Evangelion Xgouki
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Originally Posted by Vivio Testarossa View Post
Maybe mages have AT Fields?
That still wouldn't matter as the AT Field isn't a reflexive defense. The user needs to consciously manifest the field into existence in a similar manner to how mages produce a barrier. Plus a normal mage would not be able to generate an AT Field without, in a sense, killing themselves.

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Even still, the missiles can't phase through matter... so if the target there "tracking " is inside a building the missile would just hit the building...
Delayed detonation. There are numerous missiles and bombs that are designed to penetrate structures and then detonate once they are inside. Not to mention the yield of the explosive could end up taking out the wall and sending small and large pieces of debris into the targets or destroy the entire building, killing the targets anyway.
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:05   Link #8890
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@Thread: Maybe you guys should take that to the "Magic and Technology" thread since it seems to be more a discussion about that than application in fanfics. (course I could be wrong, and fi so, please continue here )

[edit] yeah, needs to go to the other thread lol
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Old 2008-09-09, 15:12   Link #8891
Jimmy C
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
In SSX track 6 Erio goes around blocking bullets. So mages very much have the reaction time to deal with supersonic weaponry, the anime just doesn't always show that speed.
It's nice of them to settle the shields vs bullets debate. Was the shield up before the shots were fired?

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Originally Posted by vivio testarossa View Post
I doubt mages would be used alone without backup of some sort, maybe ships?
If only the Bureau thought that way. Look at all 3 season of Nanoha, how often do we see the Bureau use anything heavier than a mage in any kind of fighting? Twice, and both times only against boss-level enemies. Granted, given three years, they might realise the need for something heavier than a mage to kill fighters.
However, if the Bureau lacks space superiority, it cannot deploy its ships in the atmosphere to support aerial mages. The empire's superior spaceships can target and attack them from orbit although they can't localize individual mages from that distance. And don't tell me "maybe they lack the range". If a space combat system can't traverse less than 100km of atmosphere to damage a ship, this empire doesn't have much space superiority.

Quote:
Maybe mages have AT Fields?
We already know there are limits to even an AAA-rank mage's ability to deploy a protective shield. This empire had better be working on a way to overcome the mages' shields if it doesn't already have one.

Quote:
A greater number of individuals don't mean "The empire" is more powerful take Star Wars for example.
That's not a good analogy. Everytime a Rebel base was located by the Empire, all they could do was flee. They won by hiding and striking from within the Empire. The Bureau doesn't have that option against this empire.
Striker117 is implying that the empire is at a virtual stalemate with the Bureau. I don't see this being a possibility if Bureau mages can mow down the empire's troops with impuity. Therefore the empire has to be at least as good at killing Bureau mages as the Bureau is at stopping them.

Quote:
The above also assumes all people in the empire agree with them and there are no factions that want to side with the TSAB.
Perhaps, perhaps not. It doesn't change the fact that the empire can and probably has mobilised more people to fight the Bureau than the Bureau can against it.
And if any factions want to side with the Bureau, will they play by its anti-tech weapons rules? Will the Bureau allow them not to? Do they realise what a compromise on that level will mean for their ban?

Quote:
Maybe the villains are arrogant, and figure the the TSAB cabal isn't worth destroying...
If the empire thought so little of the Bureau, that's a weakness the Bureau can exploit, why haven't they?

Quote:
Even still, the missiles can't phase through matter... so if the target there "tracking " is inside a building the missile would just hit the building...
Ever heard of the tandem-charge warhead? This warhead has 2 charges. Both can be set to blow at impact to create a large hole to enter a building. Or the second can be delayed slightly to detonate inside the building, bringing the whole thing down. Other than that, there are such things as bunker buster missles, you know.
Granted, those don't sound like the standard loadout for an AA mission. But if the mage wants to go to ground instead, keep her supressed until ground attack assets can be called in.

Last edited by Jimmy C; 2008-09-09 at 15:24.
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Old 2008-09-09, 16:41   Link #8892
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It's nice of them to settle the shields vs bullets debate. Was the shield up before the shots were fired?
There was no specific sound of any defensive spell activating, so Erio either deflected the shots with Strada or they bounced off his Barrier Jacket.

The guy then frightengly blabbers something that sounds like "the gun.... didn't work... this kid... is a mage?" The translation is questionable, I'm not sure on the word he uses to describe what happened with his gun, but he does sound awefully scared that he's facing a mage, even though he has a gun.
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Old 2008-09-09, 18:30   Link #8893
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Saw a pic in the image thread that got the gears turning (or crack flowing ). This thread needs more Hayate fics anyway .

Spoiler for Experimental Mishap:
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Old 2008-09-09, 18:46   Link #8894
Vivio Testarossa
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Saw a pic in the image thread that got the gears turning (or crack flowing ). This thread needs more Hayate fics anyway .

Spoiler for Experimental Mishap:
Ah how adorable, adult Nanoha + Fate child Hayate... well written story, I do hope for a sequel...

So the spells translated name is old norse for "mistletoe"?
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Old 2008-09-09, 19:49   Link #8895
Laith
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Crossroads


To the place among heavens

…Or the devil´s home.


Spoiler for part 3:


Spoiler for Decision 3:


Spoiler for R/S:


If you have noticed a better grammar thank TSS. I fail at it

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Old 2008-09-09, 19:52   Link #8896
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I pick C Go Go Power range- I mean Knight... =-=
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Old 2008-09-09, 19:53   Link #8897
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A I choose youuuuuuu~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 2008-09-09, 19:57   Link #8898
Seraph42
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Crossroads


To the place among heavens

…Or the devil´s home.


Spoiler for part 3:


Spoiler for Decision 3:


Spoiler for R/S:


If you have noticed a better grammar thank TSS. I fail at it

Votes end in more or less 19.30 hrs remember Green and Big
Go! C, Go!
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Old 2008-09-09, 20:10   Link #8899
Vivio Testarossa
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A for more NanoFate scenes.

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Spoiler for R/S:
I'm surprised on this one... Oh wait... this is AS, not 4chan.
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Old 2008-09-09, 20:12   Link #8900
OrderNorChaos
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Originally Posted by Laith View Post
Crossroads


To the place among heavens

…Or the devil´s home.


Spoiler for part 3:


Spoiler for Decision 3:


Spoiler for R/S:


If you have noticed a better grammar thank TSS. I fail at it

Votes end in more or less 19.30 hrs remember Green and Big
Well, I will select A.
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