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Old 2009-06-28, 21:26   Link #14061
spawnofthejudge
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Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
I wonder what it'd be like to see Nanoha Vs. Yoda. I know one of Nanoha's lines would have to be "stay still dangit!" XDD
Just make the blast big enough that he can't move fast enough to get out of the way ^_^

I'd rather see Yoda vs. a melee specialist.
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Old 2009-06-28, 21:48   Link #14062
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Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
...Really. I honestly wasn't thinking of Naruto or Star Wars (at least not consciously; I am a big fan of both). It was just a plotline divergence that I really saw as possible after seeing how the incident came to be in canon.
Well, in all honesty, everything has been done ONCE before. If you know it or not, it's been done. I ran into that problem with my Vampire!Fate fic. Everyone was saying "Oh it's like Vampire Knight!" and I was like "what's that?" so I watched some of it and was dissapointed T_T

Also, I did a fic that had Nanoha and crew under "limiters" before StrikerS came out........
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:10   Link #14063
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Basically, every good idea that you think of has probably already been done. The trick is to do it in a way that makes it uniquely yours.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:26   Link #14064
Jimmy C
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Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
Why are there no post-episode-8/9 "Teana turns rogue or evil for more power and/or to prove herself" stories out there on the Internet? Or at least some where she doesn't learn about the Nanoha-almost-dies incident and either goes rogue or at least becomes a very angry and bitter person over being "held back". A story where Teana doesn't learn about Nanoha's past and thus doesn't think she did anything wrong during the "White Devil Incident". A situation where Tia has reason to believe she's completely in the right and that Nanoha has been deliberately holding her back, because she doesn't know the truth.
Mostly because there wasn't time. She was out cold for hours after being slapped down by Nanoha. Less than 3 hours after waking up, she gets slapped down again over it! Then gets her head screwed on straight by Shari's presentation. As a result, Teana doesn't even have time to think about "being held back" before she's put on the right track. Even if the fracas that night hadn't happened, Nanoha was going to talk to everyone over the matter the next morning. It likely would have had the same result. So, all you have is less than 12 hours for Teana's feelings to spiral into the abyss. Most of which she should have spent sleeping.
That brief period is probably why almost nobody gives serious thought to Teana going rogue over the issue. In other stories where the student went rogue, there's plenty of implication that their negative feelings have been festering for days or months, even if it isn't shown outright. That's not the case with Teana.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:30   Link #14065
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
Mostly because there wasn't time. She was out cold for hours after being slapped down by Nanoha. Less than 3 hours after waking up, she gets slapped down again over it! Then gets her head screwed on straight by Shari's presentation. As a result, Teana doesn't even have time to think about "being held back" before she's put on the right track. Even if the fracas that night hadn't happened, Nanoha was going to talk to everyone over the matter the next morning. It likely would have had the same result. So, all you have is less than 12 hours for Teana's feelings to spiral into the abyss. Most of which she should have spent sleeping.
That brief period is probably why almost nobody gives serious thought to Teana going rogue over the issue. In other stories where the student went rogue, there's plenty of implication that their negative feelings have been festering for days or months, even if it isn't shown outright. That's not the case with Teana.
Well, as a fanfic, you can twist that however you want. That's just what you think, limiting yourself by what happened in the show. As a writer, you can change whatever you want to mold it into the story. The whole premise here is that Nanoha's talk/ect never happened. So its already clear that Tea has all the time needed to feel held back.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:34   Link #14066
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I'd say you'd have to dumb down Nanoha quite a bit for her not to talk to the Forwards at the earlist convenience about the matter. There's been plently of criticism about the effectiveness of her teaching methods, but I don't think she can be that bad an instructor.
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Old 2009-06-28, 22:37   Link #14067
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Originally Posted by Jimmy C View Post
I'd say you'd have to dumb down Nanoha quite a bit for her not to talk to the Forwards at the earlist convenience about the matter. There's been plently of criticism about the effectiveness of her teaching methods, but I don't think she can be that bad an instructor.
Or you could have her talk to them about the matter of not trying so hard, which leads Tea to think about being held back, which starts the whole thing. It could very easily work.
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Old 2009-06-29, 00:37   Link #14068
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Yeah, in this timeline, Teana's bitterness and suspicions of Nanoha holding her back have been brewing for a while now by the time the incident happens. The Hotel Misfire and White Devil Incidents were all it took to convince her. Also, I should say something more in case you all forgot. Besides Nanoha, when Vita chewed Tia out at the Hotel Incident, Teana comes to believe that Vita is knowingly assisting Nanoha in holding her back, and combined with Vita's general unpleasantness with Tia and her general hanging-around with Nanoha, Teana comes to hate her as well (referring to her with such things as "Half-Pint/Lil'-Red Bitch/Shrimp", "Takamachi-teme's lapdog", "Drill Sergeant Nasty", etc.
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Old 2009-06-29, 00:46   Link #14069
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Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
Yeah, in this timeline, Teana's bitterness and suspicions of Nanoha holding her back have been brewing for a while now by the time the incident happens. The Hotel Misfire and White Devil Incidents were all it took to convince her. Also, I should say something more in case you all forgot. Besides Nanoha, when Vita chewed Tia out at the Hotel Incident, Teana comes to believe that Vita is knowingly assisting Nanoha in holding her back, and combined with Vita's general unpleasantness with Tia and her general hanging-around with Nanoha, Teana comes to hate her as well (referring to her with such things as "Half-Pint/Lil'-Red Bitch/Shrimp", "Takamachi-teme's lapdog", "Drill Sergeant Nasty", etc.
Have you ever tried to write yourself? Sometimes you'd be amazed at what you can do if you give it the good old college try.
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Old 2009-06-29, 10:25   Link #14070
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"The happiest day of my life?" I looked down at Subaru with a curious expression. She was staring up at me with an interested look and nodded at my returned question. "What is this, all of a sudden?"

"Well, Nanoha-san," She began. "The other forwards and I were taking a soak in the hotsprings here while we are on vacation-" I had to smile, imagining Erio huddled in a little ball facing away from everyone else with a fierce blush on his face. "And," Subaru went on, "The radio was talking about it and was interviewing someone and asked them that question. Fate-san said it was important for us to know what we are fighting for."

"Fate-chan, hmm?" I put a finger to my chin and thought. "Leave it to her to conenct her happiest day to what she fights for."

"You know what hers is?" I smiled at her question and nodded. It was easy for me to know. After all, I had been there. "Can you tell me?"

"It has to do with water," I told her. Subaru groaned lightly and I knew that Fate-chan hadn't answered the question either. "But for me..." I paused to think about it. What was my happiest day? The first time I flew for fun? The day I was accepted into the TSAB? The day I became a teacher? I thought harder and closed my eyes, trying to recall the happiest moments of my life.

At once I remembered the first time Fate-chan and I made love and it brought a blush to my face that Subaru didn't miss. Instead of lingering on that one thought, I continued to search. The day I offically adopted Vivio and was legally her mother. That would have to be it. I remember my hand shaking as I signed the paper. Vivio was with me then, seemingly knowing what was going on and how important it was because she was smiling up at me. I had hugged her and told her I loved her and she told me she loved me too.

I smiled then, putting my hands behind my back and leaning forward at Subaru so out noses were almost touching. "The best day of my life," I told her, my voice slightly teasing. "Is every day that I come in my house and have my daughter and wife greet me."

Subaru pouted. "That doesn't help me..."

"You have to find your own answer," I told her. Placing my hand on her hair, I ruffled it and grinned. "When you do, let me know okay?"

"Haaaiii...."
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Old 2009-06-29, 10:32   Link #14071
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Well, as a fanfic, you can twist that however you want. That's just what you think, limiting yourself by what happened in the show. As a writer, you can change whatever you want to mold it into the story.
Of course your changes have to make sense in the context of the characters you're working with. Teana deciding in the space of a few hours that Nanoha has been deliberately holding her back--which makes absolutely no sense and a smart girl like Tia should realize that--and that she's better off on her own requires and incredible amount of shoehorning as Jimmy pointed out, and following this route you run an incredibly high risk of the character going completely OOC.

An excellent example of this is a certain famous story that gets posted hereabouts occasionally, namely Satashi's PornStar!Vivio stuff.

Satashi: Nanoha and Fate are killed in action.
Me as the Reader: There's a reason right there for me to not read the story, but keep going...
Satashi: Vivio is distraught, swears off magic forever, and runs away from all her parents' old friends.
Me: Sounds like a serious overreaction, but grief isn't exactly conductive to logic...
Satashi: ...and then she decides to support herself by becoming a porn star!
Me: *Mental record scratch* ...wait, what the fracking hell?

Not to get off-topic or anything, but this is something that's bothered me ever since I heard of the idea; why in the Kaiser's name would Vivio become a porn star of all things when there are any number of other jobs she could get? Never mind that Nanoha and Fate are probably rolling over in their graves and Vivio knows that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
Yeah, in this timeline, Teana's bitterness and suspicions of Nanoha holding her back have been brewing for a while now by the time the incident happens. The Hotel Misfire and White Devil Incidents were all it took to convince her.
What reason would Teana have to be bitter and suspicious towards Nanoha before she ever got smacked down? You can't just make this stuff up as you go, it has to lead from a starting point or your plot makes no sense. You'll realize this if you ever try to write the situation from Teana's point; when you're describing the situation from her perspective, you'll come upon a point where you need to explain where these feelings of resentment started and how they developed over time.
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Old 2009-06-29, 10:40   Link #14072
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"It has to do with water,"
I would want to know what you were thinking about when you wrote that...

Cute short there, Satashi. I loved Nanoha blushing.

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Old 2009-06-29, 10:57   Link #14073
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Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post

What reason would Teana have to be bitter and suspicious towards Nanoha before she ever got smacked down? You can't just make this stuff up as you go, it has to lead from a starting point or your plot makes no sense. You'll realize this if you ever try to write the situation from Teana's point; when you're describing the situation from her perspective, you'll come upon a point where you need to explain where these feelings of resentment started and how they developed over time.
Well, actually, it could be easy enough.

Just don't have Tiana mouth off when Nanoha tells her to take the day off. Just have her grip her hands tightly and nod curtly.

Thus what happened to Nanoha isn't brought to light and Tiana probably doesn't get a talk from anyone about it...
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Old 2009-06-29, 11:14   Link #14074
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Well, actually, it could be easy enough.

Just don't have Tiana mouth off when Nanoha tells her to take the day off. Just have her grip her hands tightly and nod curtly.

Thus what happened to Nanoha isn't brought to light and Tiana probably doesn't get a talk from anyone about it...
That doesn't solve one crucial fact about this situation; the only ways Teana can leave are by deserting her unit or transferring out the legal way.

Deserting her unit flies in the face of Teana's goal of redeeming the Lanstar name for Tiida's sake. To get around that you'd have to have Teana decide that power = honor, which requires a very smart and level-headed girl to act on some really screwed-up logic, which is blatantly OOC of her. I absolutely cannot see Teana making this kind of decision unless she was under the influence of some outside party, and then you've just turned Teana into the Nanohaverse version of Sasuke.

Transferring out the usual way will lead to questions being raised about why she wants to leave, which in turn will probably lead to a confrontation with Nanoha, which in turn leads right back to the Bright Slap Signum Punch and Nanoha's lecture. Moreover, if Tia has been holding in so much resentment all this time, it's more likely than ever at this point that she'll completely lose it while confronting Nanoha and have an epic screaming flailing blasting-things-to-pieces temper tantrum.
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Old 2009-06-29, 11:28   Link #14075
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Well, as a fanfic, you can twist that however you want. That's just what you think, limiting yourself by what happened in the show. As a writer, you can change whatever you want to mold it into the story. The whole premise here is that Nanoha's talk/ect never happened. So its already clear that Tea has all the time needed to feel held back.
I disagree, if only because the whole idea of Teana going rogue is built on next to nothing.

For one thing, Teana never has the time to properly develop any real resentment for Nanoha specifically; it's true that in canon she feels frustrated over being "held back", but that feeling isn't given the time it needs to become a deep, nasty resentment that could lead to her even considering leaving before Signum bitch slaps knocks some sense into her and Shari explains everything in detail.

On top of that, Teana's whole character is built on redeeming the Lanstar name and her brother because of how he died; that's her driving force behind nearly everything she does. If you make her go rogue, then you're essentially changing something that's so much a part of her character that she wouldn't even be Teana anymore but some Nanohaverse version of Sasuke or Ishida.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but doing it properly without making some major story changes would be extremely difficult. The only way it would work is if Teana was influenced by an outside force (and who would that be, anyway? Jail?) or if you go back and change how Tiida died, which in turn would change Teana's whole motivation in the first place.
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Old 2009-06-29, 11:41   Link #14076
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Guidelines are good to keep a fanfic but it limitates a lot the creatrivity of the author, I personally admire writters like Satashi and Atomico X who are brave enough to try totally new things with very limited plots (speaking of making a fic based on an alredy existing story) and they actually bring good stuff out. Having stories following a predeterminated set of "rules" may turn out to have a repetitive and boring story.

Said this, jumping a bit out of canon is not so bad, but if you wish to move really, really out of Canon I recomend to better try in original-land, it worked for me and now my original comics are a hit.
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Old 2009-06-29, 12:18   Link #14077
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Originally Posted by Comartemis View Post
Of course your changes have to make sense in the context of the characters you're working with. Teana deciding in the space of a few hours that Nanoha has been deliberately holding her back--which makes absolutely no sense and a smart girl like Tia should realize that--and that she's better off on her own requires and incredible amount of shoehorning as Jimmy pointed out, and following this route you run an incredibly high risk of the character going completely OOC.

An excellent example of this is a certain famous story that gets posted hereabouts occasionally, namely Satashi's PornStar!Vivio stuff.

Satashi: Nanoha and Fate are killed in action.
Me as the Reader: There's a reason right there for me to not read the story, but keep going...
Satashi: Vivio is distraught, swears off magic forever, and runs away from all her parents' old friends.
Me: Sounds like a serious overreaction, but grief isn't exactly conductive to logic...
Satashi: ...and then she decides to support herself by becoming a porn star!
Me: *Mental record scratch* ...wait, what the fracking hell?

Not to get off-topic or anything, but this is something that's bothered me ever since I heard of the idea; why in the Kaiser's name would Vivio become a porn star of all things when there are any number of other jobs she could get? Never mind that Nanoha and Fate are probably rolling over in their graves and Vivio knows that...
The thing is, like Rick said, is that some writers like to take that bold step out from the norm and try to pull something off. As to the little conversation we had (which makes me giggle thinking back on it), I like to classify that as "Glorification of words". You can make anything you want sound as good or as bad as you want by the words you use. A good example is eating chicken

me: I'm eating a roasted chicken with herb-butter seasonings and it's really juicy and moist and is just delicious!

me: I'm eating the heated flesh off a dead bird.

See what I mean? The same was to PS!Vivio.

me: Vivio runs away and becomes a porn star!

me: Vivio almost has a mental breakdown after seeing her parent's death, and tries to hide from the harsh reality that any of her friends could die at any moment. After a series of mistakes, she can't handle life and resorts to posing nude for money to live on. After the shame makes her sick, she tries even harder to make her own life and thinks that she can never return. As she learns what life really is, she resorts to doing it again. Then, she finally meets someone who treats her with respect, and she learns what it means to truly walk on your own two feet.

Same story, just "words of glory". the story was fairly well recived, for what it is. 58 reviews and about 7,000 reads.


As for Rogue!Tea, I can't justify any of my reasoning without actually writing it and "stepping out of the norm to try an off teh wall story to try and make it work"
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Old 2009-06-29, 12:26   Link #14078
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As for Rogue!Tea, I can't justify any of my reasoning without actually writing it and "stepping out of the norm to try an off teh wall story to try and make it work"
I think RB's just trying to warn of the extent of the divergence from canon required. (A step out from the norm, yes, but you have to leave your feet to attain this one, like you did with PS!Vivio) It's not that it can't be done; it's that in order to not destroy Teana's character in the process, an author would have to step carefully with her current motivations and make sure that she doesn't drive against them. It's not too hard to imagine someone pulling it off, but it would take more careful thought about Teana's original reasons for joining the TSAB in order to make it such that I wouldn't throw something across the room when I read it. Teana's a great character as is; ruining her for this plot is giving the plot too much respect. Carefully tending her so that she works in the plot, however...

It can be done, and it even can be done excellently. That doesn't mean it's easy.
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Old 2009-06-29, 12:31   Link #14079
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
Well, actually, it could be easy enough.

Just don't have Tiana mouth off when Nanoha tells her to take the day off. Just have her grip her hands tightly and nod curtly.

Thus what happened to Nanoha isn't brought to light and Tiana probably doesn't get a talk from anyone about it...
That won't get him where he wants to go either. Like I said and as you can see in ep9, Nanoha was going to talk to the Forwards about the matter the next morning anyway. Even if Tiana spends the whole night seething in anger, she's unlikely to do anything other than listen then. It's not in her character to do less. Not in such a short time.

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Originally Posted by BPHaru View Post
I would want to know what you were thinking about when you wrote that...
Tsk, tsk. I'm disappointed that you, Mr Devotee-of-all-things-NanoFate, can't even make a guess. Assume it's a scene we actually saw in the anime, does that help?

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Originally Posted by comartemis View Post
Not to get off-topic or anything, but this is something that's bothered me ever since I heard of the idea; why in the Kaiser's name would Vivio become a porn star of all things when there are any number of other jobs she could get?
Spoiler for I wanted to do this a while ago but forgot:


Bottom line, Vivio's too powerful a mage to be allowed to just vanish without a through search being mounted.

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Same story, just "words of glory". the story was fairly well recived, for what it is. 58 reviews and about 7,000 reads.
I agree it's a great story, and I liked it. But elephant in the room sometimes got hard to ignore.
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Old 2009-06-29, 12:41   Link #14080
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As for Rogue!Tea, I can't justify any of my reasoning without actually writing it and "stepping out of the norm to try an off teh wall story to try and make it work"
I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it can't be done without some very careful consideration and an understanding of Teana's character and what makes her tick. Indeed, if you choose to write it, I'd love reading it.

The problem with a story like this, which would require some major changes to canon, is to make these changes without completely losing Teana's character and who she is. The writing could be excellent and the storyline could be compelling, but if I don't recognize Teana's character, then I'll have a much harder time enjoying it.
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