AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Nanoha

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-10-11, 15:43   Link #16741
Tk3997
Loveable Jerk
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Greensboro, North Carolina
Age: 28
Send a message via ICQ to Tk3997 Send a message via AIM to Tk3997 Send a message via MSN to Tk3997
Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
I live to serve.

You know, that's got to be the most common grammatical error I've seen recently, but oddly enough I've only really noticed it existing over the past couple of years. I'd seen fics which were riddled with mistakes in past years, but never did that one.

Specifically, I'm speaking of the following construction:

"That's right." Said Nanoha to Fate.

It's the combination of a period rather than a comma inside the quotation mark, and a capital letter for the sentence fragment detailing who was taking the action. I'm wondering if it might be because more and more word processors autocorrect the first lowercase letter after a period into a capital letter? In this way, the writer makes one mistake (using the period rather than the comma) and the software chains a second mistake off of it.
I think most people just don't give a damn frankly.

It probably does have to do with word processors, but I think how things are written online matters as well since lines of dialogue are more or less universally spaced apart online you get stuff like

Spoiler for right:


This I think to allot of people looks sort of strange. This is likely because quotes are often whole sentences that are self contained and so when they see like one word with a comma just hanging off it, it looks odd. In theory what’s happened is that the sentence is basically “Agreed, said the random guy gruffly” with the quotation marks merely showing what part of it was spoken, but there is a tendency in people’s minds to consider them entirely separate objects. So you end up in...

Spoiler for wrong:


The capitalization then follows on because people say “Oh a period Capital time!” (The fact such lines are often followed by a name which IS capitalized only adds to it, and shows how completely arbitrary these rules really are)

That said I’m not sure it really matters frankly while one is correct and the other not the difference when actually read is… pretty much nonexistent. The fact is that a quote is more or less already always followed by a brief pause anyway. People don’t ramble right into and right out of a quote with no transition at all when speaking so in practice the period or comma makes no real difference. The capitalization is more or less a style thing as well it’s not like it really changes the meaning of what’s being said. Plus with the quotation marks often containing a fully developed sentence just before it, it actually looks rather natural.

So to me this is sort of one of those “incorrect, but completely irrelevant to actually understanding what’s written” type errors. Yeah it’s not right from a technical perspective, but the fact is it really has almost no effect whatsoever on the readability of the piece (IMO). I suppose it might bother someone who is really a stickler for grammar, but I frankly almost never even notice it.

Too me such nitpicking is really more trouble then it’s worth and feed back on characterization, plot, and perhaps style (subjective as all that is) is often much more useful for a writer. In many cases the fact is a writer knows about the issue, but it’s not something so easily and quickly fixed as with many bad habits.

Not that you where all harping on it like total grammar nazi's, but I've seen it happen where someone will just tear into a story or argument harping on minor grammatical details to the exclusion of any remarks on it's actual content, or will just keep bringing up some tick constantly even after a writer says, "I know I'm trying to work on it." That's just my take anyway based on my own nowhere near perfect grammar knowledge.
__________________



Tk3997 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 15:55   Link #16742
TheShinySword
Master of the Shiny Crack
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a cave
Send a message via AIM to TheShinySword Send a message via MSN to TheShinySword
The problem is if a writer isn't made aware of a constant problem the writing suffers for it. I, for one, have trouble reading pieces with constant mistakes. Nitpicking is bad but it hurts the writer if repeated mistakes aren't pointed out.
TheShinySword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 19:27   Link #16743
Satashi
Vividly Vivio
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Over there
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Satashi Send a message via Skype™ to Satashi
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
The problem is if a writer isn't made aware of a constant problem the writing suffers for it. I, for one, have trouble reading pieces with constant mistakes. Nitpicking is bad but it hurts the writer if repeated mistakes aren't pointed out.
What Shiny said is completely true. If the people here didn't correct me in my "was" and "were", then I would never make an effort to fix it. Granted, it took a few fics before I weeded it out but I think I have it down now ( but I still slip sometimes >.< ).

But a lot of English rules are just plain weird:

"I before E, except after C"

Science
Neighbor
Weigh
Weird
Their
Theiler

It is hard to really understand sometimes, 'specially when writing fics. I do recall making the previously mentioned error many times, the one about ending a quote with a period and starting next word Capped.....
Satashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 19:33   Link #16744
Nijiru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Remember, English is the bastard child of human language.
Nijiru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 19:50   Link #16745
TheShinySword
Master of the Shiny Crack
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a cave
Send a message via AIM to TheShinySword Send a message via MSN to TheShinySword
Hey now, no dissing the English language, it's an incredibly versatile language with an amazing range of words, and it's not nearly as hard as everyone wants it to be.
TheShinySword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 19:56   Link #16746
MeisterBabylon
~ Ping For Effect ~
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: The Golden Throne
Age: 28
How else did you think I get by with my lousy language power? I can barely speak English properly, let alone manage other languages!

And then there's linguistic monsters like Anita and her mastery of 7 (2 Asian + 5 European). >_>
__________________

On money: Every man has a price. For everything else, there's MakoCard.
MeisterBabylon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 20:50   Link #16747
Satashi
Vividly Vivio
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Over there
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Satashi Send a message via Skype™ to Satashi
English is hard because it's so easy. There are so man exceptions to the rules, and all sorts of dialects are integrated into the mother language, you can basically not speak a lick of English and speak it fluently.

Example:
"The hat is red"
"The red hat"
the adj describing the noun can come before or after it.

You can basically throw words together and it'll generally make sense. Because of the dialects that often "dumb down" (I'm sorry, they DO!) the language, even mispronouncing things is accepted as correct.

To sum up this post, English is a horrible, horrible language that took little parts of everything and made it all into one language. And that's the truth, America is the "melting pot" afterall.

But anyway, relating this to writing, because of all this, writing is kind of simple but difficult at same time. For example, "you was" is accepted here and isn't counted off on grammar tests I took. Why? Because that's how people where I grew up talked. Same with " 'cha " and " 'ya " being an abreviation of "are you" (What'cha doing? Where'ya going?) were accepted as being correct because of our dialect.

but when I wrote, I quickly found out that not everyone likes it. I understand all languages have that problem, but still...

I also kind of wish that English had better ways of expressing things. Some way to connect it so everyone can understand.... Like the Japanese honorifics. Just by the way you address people in Japan really reflects how you feel about them. Calling them by last name, adding -san, or -kun, or whatever and then dropping it to call them by their normal name... America just doesn't do that really, and it can't translate to the degree of character development on paper that I would like to see.

On another note, I still think that at least 40-60% of posters here don't have English as their main language (well that probably changed since we have many newcomers and a lot of older ones don't show up much anymore...), but everyone speaks English really well. I'm impressed by that.
Satashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 21:30   Link #16748
TheShinySword
Master of the Shiny Crack
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a cave
Send a message via AIM to TheShinySword Send a message via MSN to TheShinySword
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
English is hard because it's so easy. There are so man exceptions to the rules, and all sorts of dialects are integrated into the mother language, you can basically not speak a lick of English and speak it fluently.

Example:
"The hat is red"
"The red hat"
the adj describing the noun can come before or after it.
Actually there is A HUGE difference between those two and I've mentioned it before (because you've used this example before). In one it is important that the hat is red. In the second the redness of the hat may or may not be relevant. The little things matter a lot in writing.

Quote:
You can basically throw words together and it'll generally make sense. Because of the dialects that often "dumb down" (I'm sorry, they DO!) the language, even mispronouncing things is accepted as correct.
But that has nothing to with writing and everything to do with speaking where grammar has little to no relevance. D: Also it is far easier to read a language then it is to speak one precisely because of dialects.

Quote:
To sum up this post, English is a horrible, horrible language that took little parts of everything and made it all into one language. And that's the truth, America is the "melting pot" afterall.
No it's an awesome AWESOME language that took bits of pretty good languages and made them better. (It has so many words that we need another book just to list the synonyms for words!)

Quote:
But anyway, relating this to writing, because of all this, writing is kind of simple but difficult at same time. For example, "you was" is accepted here and isn't counted off on grammar tests I took. Why? Because that's how people where I grew up talked. Same with " 'cha " and " 'ya " being an abreviation of "are you" (What'cha doing? Where'ya going?) were accepted as being correct because of our dialect.


but when I wrote, I quickly found out that not everyone likes it. I understand all languages have that problem, but still...
They don't like it because it is wrong. Your schooling did you such a disservice by not correcting that, in fact I'm horrified and appalled by that fact. There is a humongous reason WE DON'T WRITE AS WE TALK.

That is why grammar is important! Your schooling did you a huuuuuge injury by not correcting you. Grammar is what links the thousand dialects together. Without grammar no one would be able to read what anyone else wrote because everyone has distinct verbal characteristics. Writing should be universal to anyone who can read the language. (the only exceptions being 1st person and dialog and even then it should be toned down and fit the character.

Quote:
I also kind of wish that English had better ways of expressing things. Some way to connect it so everyone can understand.... Like the Japanese honorifics. Just by the way you address people in Japan really reflects how you feel about them. Calling them by last name, adding -san, or -kun, or whatever and then dropping it to call them by their normal name... America just doesn't do that really, and it can't translate to the degree of character development on paper that I would like to see.
I used to think that way... until I realized that while an interesting unique cultural thing it isn't necessary for someone like me, who can't possibly actually understand how it all works, to use it to get similar effects. There are still a thousand different ways to call a person differently in English (your first name, your last name, your full name, a nickname, your first name that you don't like because you use a nickname (story of my life right there), your name with a y added on because that makes it easier to say, Mr, Mrs, Ms, Master, Mistress, Boss, Sir, Ma'am, Madam and of course, hey you.)

Quote:
On another note, I still think that at least 40-60% of posters here don't have English as their main language (well that probably changed since we have many newcomers and a lot of older ones don't show up much anymore...), but everyone speaks English really well. I'm impressed by that.
Well everyone writes really well at least. But that doesn't change the fact that it's really cool
TheShinySword is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 21:41   Link #16749
Oseng
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: United States of America
Well I finally finished putting together chapter one of my fanfiction, which is actually my first one. I do not have a name for it yet though. I hope Admiral Tigerclaw doesn't mind that I added a little allusion/shout out to his fic.

Anyway here is the story. Constructive criticism would be very welcome.

Spoiler for Chapter One:
Oseng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 21:42   Link #16750
RadiantBeam
Test Drive
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to RadiantBeam Send a message via Skype™ to RadiantBeam
Didn't we discuss this pages ago?
__________________
RadiantBeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 22:03   Link #16751
Satashi
Vividly Vivio
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Over there
Age: 31
Send a message via AIM to Satashi Send a message via Skype™ to Satashi
Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiantBeam View Post
Didn't we discuss this pages ago?
we did :3 I even used the same example, as shiny pointed out hehe ^^;

on that note....um....

Have a mental image of Fate singing a lullaby to Vivio :3
Satashi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 22:03   Link #16752
Rika23onROOF
meow~ give me cookies~
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: cat cage, meow~
I think everyone here really is good in English, except me.
Although English is not my main language, I've enjoy writing stories very much.
But compare to everyone here my English is bad(Grammar & spelling).
Even if I knew that, I just like to write stories to express myself. If I'm in a bad mood, I'll write angst and drama story. If I'm happy, there be lots of fluffy romance.

So when I write something, I'll apologize in advance for the bad English.

*BOW DOWN* *TURN* (=/////=) *RUN AWAY*
Rika23onROOF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 23:00   Link #16753
Tempy
Σ(。д(o--(ಠ益ಠ )
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hotsprings Resort
Age: 28
It amuses me that people always apologize for their English, regardless of how good or bad it is. One's grasp of the language actually varies quite a bit in here, but I suppose everyone can stand for some improvement.

Though Rika's behavior reminds me of this this.
__________________
Tempy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-11, 23:13   Link #16754
RadiantBeam
Test Drive
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: USA
Age: 23
Send a message via AIM to RadiantBeam Send a message via Skype™ to RadiantBeam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Have a mental image of Fate singing a lullaby to Vivio :3
Thank you very much. :3
__________________
RadiantBeam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 00:07   Link #16755
Alavon
Worshipper of Nanoha...
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: In my imagination...
I was bored and decided to write a short fic but I found the first chapter of a series I began half a year ago and I decided to continue it. So here you go.


Spoiler for Please, Arrest Me!:


Spoiler for Author's Notes:

Last edited by Alavon; 2009-10-12 at 00:13. Reason: Oops! Forgot the intro for the chapter
Alavon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 00:10   Link #16756
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
I for one would like to see it continued.
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 00:11   Link #16757
DKN117
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whittier, Southern CA
Age: 25
Since I’ve been told that it’s okay to post outlines and ask for help & opinions, here is what I have for a Nanoha/Negima crossover. Despite the fact that the Negima-verse’s events are the primary focus here, there is no “Negima Fanfic Discussion” forum, so this entry is going here. If you haven’t read Mahou Sensei Negima, don’t even bother reading this post.

Also, a few elements of the Naruto-verse make themselves known here. However, none of the characters show up (though there may be a passing mention much later on of a certain invincible, mask-wearing, current-and-true Big Bad of the series), and the Naruto world is not visited. The influence? Jutsu. A few Naruto-verse techniques will show up (partly thanks to the Negima-verse’s local ninja-girl Kaede), and another dark jutsu of the ‘verse will play an important point soon…

This is an outline, not a full story; I am soliciting help in ideas to flesh out the storyline. There will be parts below that are woefully undetailed, and after a certain point everything just stops altogether as I have no idea how to proceed.

For every month spent in the Negima-verse, one day passes back on Midchilda in this story; a side-effect of the below-mentioned dimensional anomaly.

Spoiler for Main Plot:


And this is where I’ve hit a dead-end. I have no idea how to approach the following plot ideas:

Spoiler for Help Please:


I… I have no clue whatsoever how to proceed with all this. Help? Ideas? Suggestions? Comments? Details? Anyone? Be nice, please (by that I mean, no “OMG ur stoopid NEGYMA sux u fayl at stohreetelyng” comments).
DKN117 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 01:05   Link #16758
SulliMike23
Soldier of Nod
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Send a message via AIM to SulliMike23 Send a message via MSN to SulliMike23 Send a message via Yahoo to SulliMike23 Send a message via Skype™ to SulliMike23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alavon View Post
I was bored and decided to write a short fic but I found the first chapter of a series I began half a year ago and I decided to continue it. So here you go.


Spoiler for Please, Arrest Me!:


Spoiler for Author's Notes:
Not a bad start. Subaru, an ex-cop for the NYPD getting suspended because she made a mistake while putting a guy in jail. I'd stay off the streets for a couple weeks if I were her.
SulliMike23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 02:45   Link #16759
Keroko
Adeptus Animus
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKN117 View Post
Since I’ve been told that it’s okay to post outlines and ask for help & opinions, here is what I have for a Nanoha/Negima crossover. Despite the fact that the Negima-verse’s events are the primary focus here, there is no “Negima Fanfic Discussion” forum, so this entry is going here. If you haven’t read Mahou Sensei Negima, don’t even bother reading this post.

Also, a few elements of the Naruto-verse make themselves known here. However, none of the characters show up (though there may be a passing mention much later on of a certain invincible, mask-wearing, current-and-true Big Bad of the series), and the Naruto world is not visited. The influence? Jutsu. A few Naruto-verse techniques will show up (partly thanks to the Negima-verse’s local ninja-girl Kaede), and another dark jutsu of the ‘verse will play an important point soon…

This is an outline, not a full story; I am soliciting help in ideas to flesh out the storyline. There will be parts below that are woefully undetailed, and after a certain point everything just stops altogether as I have no idea how to proceed.

For every month spent in the Negima-verse, one day passes back on Midchilda in this story; a side-effect of the below-mentioned dimensional anomaly.

Spoiler for Main Plot:


And this is where I’ve hit a dead-end. I have no idea how to approach the following plot ideas:

Spoiler for Help Please:


I… I have no clue whatsoever how to proceed with all this. Help? Ideas? Suggestions? Comments? Details? Anyone? Be nice, please (by that I mean, no “OMG ur stoopid NEGYMA sux u fayl at stohreetelyng” comments).
I can't do a detailed break down at the moment, but I already see a glaring weakness. Teana's "I'm going to go rogue because you were holding me back!" is so blatantly out of character (not to mention painfully cliche) that it quite frankly impossible to take seriously. Teana may have had a serious drive to grow stronger in StrikerS to the point where she would needlesly risk herself, but she did not, and would not, fight against her friends and allies because of that, much less accuse them of holding her back. Teana blamed herself for her weakness, not others.
__________________
Keroko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2009-10-12, 02:48   Link #16760
Rising Dragon
Goat Herder
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: The middle of the Middle of Nowhere
Age: 27
And to add to that, there's her whole personal goal to consider, which is impossible if she goes rogue from the TSAB.

... also I'm getting serious deja vu here. Wasn't the idea of Teana going rogue brought up here once before?
__________________
Rising Dragon is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
authorshipping, befriending, fanfiction, interactive fanfiction, nanoha

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.