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Old 2009-11-05, 07:58   Link #18341
spawnofthejudge
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Originally Posted by TheShinySword View Post
Unless Spawn and I are thinking of different KJV...
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE!

That's... um... really funny, Shiny. You should write some ancient Belkan texts.
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Old 2009-11-05, 08:37   Link #18342
Satashi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
I personally run on the "CCxCC and OCxOC only" policy,l
Me too, besides Vivio/Syn and that's just 'cause at the time, Vivio had no friends to fall for that wouldn't fall under the squirk category @_@
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Old 2009-11-05, 10:18   Link #18343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Me too, besides Vivio/Syn and that's just 'cause at the time, Vivio had no friends to fall for that wouldn't fall under the squirk category @_@
Eh, for something like that, I'd have to say "Well why did you have to pair Vivio with anyone at all?" Of course "Because I wanted to" is a perfectly acceptable answer. But still, even though I do like challenging myself by making pairings between loosely related characters work, I don't feel that everyone needs to be paired with some one.

On the topic of OCs, I'm pretty ambivalent towards them. I do mostly pass over fics that use OCs in main character capacities, though. I fell in love with the characters from the show, so when I go read fanfiction I want to read the adventures of those characters.

Of course OCs have their uses, but they shouldn't take away from the show characters. To use an example from my own works, my Ace Enforcer series has a large number of OCs, but that's because it's a mystery fic, so I need witnesses, victims, culprits, etc, and I can't really use established characters from the show to fit those roles. However, the story is still about Fate (and to a lesser extent, Teana and Shari).

OC villains are a different story, though. Since any villains from the show are otherwise disposed, you have no choice but to make up your own if you want an evil for Nanoha and co to fight. But in this case I think its best to have a villain grounded in the universe. Instead of creating a brand new evil organization or what have you, make them a corrupt member of the TSAB, or Precia's former assistant or something. Volvo, my original villain from my Rise of the Daemon Kaiser fic has deep ties to Vivio's genetic source, and was sealed away under the Cradle.

So to sum it up, I think OCs should be used only when there is no canon character who can fill the same role. In such case, it's important they fit into the universe and not take focus away from the established characters.

Of course you can just throw all that out the window if it gets in the way of you having fun. Enjoying your writing is the most important thing, I think.
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Old 2009-11-05, 10:30   Link #18344
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Anyone ever thought of crossing Nanoha with Transformers?
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Old 2009-11-05, 10:42   Link #18345
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
So to sum it up, I think OCs should be used only when there is no canon character who can fill the same role. In such case, it's important they fit into the universe and not take focus away from the established characters.
Why didn't I meet you sooner?
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Old 2009-11-05, 11:28   Link #18346
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AlternativeS Chapter 1 (AS rough draft) AlternativeS Chapter 2 (AS rough draft) AlternativeS chapter 3, 3-1 to 3-6
Spoiler for Alternatives 3-7:

Part finished!
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Old 2009-11-05, 11:57   Link #18347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
So to sum it up, I think OCs should be used only when there is no canon character who can fill the same role. In such case, it's important they fit into the universe and not take focus away from the established characters.
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Why didn't I meet you sooner?
Great, another reason to hate my Nano. As if I needed another thing preventing me from writing this November.
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Old 2009-11-05, 12:57   Link #18348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
Great, another reason to hate my Nano. As if I needed another thing preventing me from writing this November.
Gah! No no no! Write it, I'm sure it'll be great! I'm sure we'll all love it, Spawn.
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Old 2009-11-05, 13:05   Link #18349
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Originally Posted by AtomicoX View Post
I personally run on the "CCxCC and OCxOC only" policy, but it's a free world. Some might disapprove of what you do but hey, it's fanfiction, the home to the most fanatical creatures I've seen. Write what you want, kick the fanatics to the curve, but just heed the possible critique from everyone else regarding canon and small details that might just give your fic that little edge. Now I do not actually read anything here, except certain ones, but I wouldn't have a problem with that fic of yours if I did read.
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Originally Posted by Satashi View Post
Me too, besides Vivio/Syn and that's just 'cause at the time, Vivio had no friends to fall for that wouldn't fall under the squirk category @_@
This is also the policy I go with, with regard to romance. "Oh, let's bring in a new character and have them hook up romantically with my favorite canon character!" is the basic structure of most Author Insert Mary Sue fics. Thus any fic with a CCxOC romance will immediately have to overcome that presumption. Particularly in a still-ongoing series, where getting Nerfed by Canon will be inevitable for a CCxOC romance fic, which is another reason all on its own to avoid them; it's one thing for a "completed" series but, for example, one could write a fic where Nanoha met a boyfriend...or girlfriend...one year after StrikerS and then...whoops, there she is raising Vivio with Fate-mama in ViVid, no sign of any outside lover...

(Of course, that's a risk anyway...I'm part of a whole cottage industry of "When Vivio Grows Up!" fics that got nerfed by ViVid, but I digress...)

Probably that's the biggest stumbling block for any CCxOC romance for me, honestly. You could write a truly wonderful romance, introducing a well-drawn, three-dimensional character who gets together with a canon character in a natural and organic manner, but from the moment you pick up the fic you know it's an Alternate Universe setting because of the romance!! And the first question that comes to me is, "Why? Why spend all the effort on that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00-Raiser View Post
Eh, for something like that, I'd have to say "Well why did you have to pair Vivio with anyone at all?" Of course "Because I wanted to" is a perfectly acceptable answer. But still, even though I do like challenging myself by making pairings between loosely related characters work, I don't feel that everyone needs to be paired with some one.
More like, "Romance/relationship fics are what Satashi writes, and Satashi likes Vivio and wanted to write about her," I suspect. Moreover, Satashi had already paired (trioed) off Erio, Caro, and Lutecia together in his/her 6th Division stories and so had basically used up Vivio's entire generation of known characters. My Vivio fics lack romance because, well, romance is not the first thing I write about.

I do, however, agree with you generally on the topic: there's a lot more to write about out there than romance. Indeed, the Nanoha franchise features plenty of ship-tease, but zero romance in its actual plots.

Quote:
On the topic of OCs, I'm pretty ambivalent towards them. I do mostly pass over fics that use OCs in main character capacities, though. I fell in love with the characters from the show, so when I go read fanfiction I want to read the adventures of those characters.

Of course OCs have their uses, but they shouldn't take away from the show characters. To use an example from my own works, my Ace Enforcer series has a large number of OCs, but that's because it's a mystery fic, so I need witnesses, victims, culprits, etc, and I can't really use established characters from the show to fit those roles. However, the story is still about Fate (and to a lesser extent, Teana and Shari).

OC villains are a different story, though. Since any villains from the show are otherwise disposed, you have no choice but to make up your own if you want an evil for Nanoha and co to fight. But in this case I think its best to have a villain grounded in the universe. Instead of creating a brand new evil organization or what have you, make them a corrupt member of the TSAB, or Precia's former assistant or something. Volvo, my original villain from my Rise of the Daemon Kaiser fic has deep ties to Vivio's genetic source, and was sealed away under the Cradle.

So to sum it up, I think OCs should be used only when there is no canon character who can fill the same role. In such case, it's important they fit into the universe and not take focus away from the established characters.
I find this to be an entirely subjective point, which is dependent on a major question: why are you writing this fanfic within this canon source?

If the attraction of the canon is the characters, then yes, what you say is true.

On the other hand, if it's the universe/setting of the story that's interesting and attractive to you, that's a different story. In that case, then the canon represents the adventures of Canon Characters in that universe, and the fic represents the adventures of...someone else.

For example, I've written a Phantasy Star II full-length novel fic which doesn't have one single canon character in it. I just happen to like the setting of the Algo System and the mix of magic and fantasy elements with sci-fi technology and cyberpunk dystopia worked well with the plot. The big surprise there is that anybody cared and that it was well-received within the fandom at the time.

That's sort of the raison d'etre of the OC thread, after all: for people to come up with their own original characters and concepts that fit within the canon universe.

So the question really is--why are you writing this fic? What is it you like about this franchise?

I'd also like to point out that there is a subtle difference between having an OC where there's another, canon character who could fill the role, and having an OC who usurps a canon character's role.

For example: There are presumably a lot of Enforcers running around within the TSAB. So maybe you want to write a Lost Logia-based mystery/suspense thriller kind of story. You could use Fate or Teana or Ginga as the main character for that. But you might also use someone else, especially since that gives you the freedom to have the investigating Enforcer get killed or get possessed or turn out to be guilty without messing with canon (that matters to me, though it may not to other people--I enjoy the fics I write and the fics I read to either be as close to canon as possible or to be completely AU).

On the other hand, an OC who's a better trainer than Nanoha, or who has more raw magical power (unless a villain--see above) than Hayate, or who exists only to be a moeblob team mascot, or who's a Device Meister for the other canon heroes...well, these are people who are surpassing/usurping the in-canon jobs of the existing characters.

The difference is, a fic which is merely OC-based will generate disinterest on the part of fans who are there for the sake of the characters ("Vivio is a neat character! I want to read more about her, not some OC."), but a fic with OC usurpers will generate anger.

Quote:
Of course you can just throw all that out the window if it gets in the way of you having fun. Enjoying your writing is the most important thing, I think.
This is very true on one level. However, on another level it isn't true: if you're going to be submitting your writing for the opinions of other fans, then it's a good idea to have a realistic awareness of how your story will be received. And on yet a third level, I have seen soooo many OC and AU ideas which genuinely aren't half bad on their own, were they not shoehorned into a fanfiction fandom which they had nothing in common with (my main problem with most of the AU NanoFate romances I've seen, for example, is not that they're romances or that they're AU, but because they're neither Nanoha or Fate, just OC who have been modded to look like Nanoha and Fate--neither their personalities nor the themes and central conflicts are preserved from the Nanoha and Fate we know, and thus my interest becomes zero).

Quote:
Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge View Post
Great, another reason to hate my Nano. As if I needed another thing preventing me from writing this November.
You're going to have to expand on that...Dropping hints into a discussion without explanation is not allowed!
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Old 2009-11-05, 13:31   Link #18350
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That time again...

RadiantBeam and I are here to present...

In multiple posts...

One thing, I find that the character limit on these forums is WAAAAAY too small!

Day in the Life

Chapter 29

Normalcy

Spoiler for Normalcy - PT I:
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Old 2009-11-05, 13:32   Link #18351
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Spoiler for Normalcy - PT II:
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:04   Link #18352
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AlternativeS Chapter 1 (AS rough draft) AlternativeS Chapter 2 (AS rough draft) AlternativeS chapter 3, 3-1 to 3-6
Spoiler for Alternatives 3-7:
Spoiler for AlternativeS 3-8:
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:04   Link #18353
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Hey 00-Raiser, when's the next chapter for your Decade crossover gonna be done?
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:08   Link #18354
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For me, the major draw of a universe is the characters *and* the setting. It's the main reason I write and read; because I want to see the adventures of these characters continue in that universe.

It's really hard for me to read a fic that diverges too much from the tone of the series. If it's light and fluffy, someone writing an extreme dark/horror fic seems incredibly out of place. Or someone who screws around too much with the characterization or pairings of a series. I mean, if you're gonna change it and throw out half the conventions or more, why don't you just do an original story instead? Messing too much with it, just screams "I don't like what the creator did, so I'm making it MY way."

If you don't like certain aspects of the series, there are many more out there that would probably suit you better.

It's partially why I don't particularly like reading AUs, crossovers, or fusions. It turns the world I know into something unrecognizable, and thus a fanfic author has immediately failed to make a connection. Not that I'm putting down people who write such; just stating my reasons for why I don't particularly care for them.

I was originally going to write a fic with the Tenchi OAV continuity. Then I saw the third OAV series, and gave up on that, because I didn't like where it was headed. I would have had to change too much.

Pairings is another issue. If there is decent support for the pairing in the canon, I can usually go with it, ie, Nanoha/Fate or Nanoha/Yuuno both are plausible. But reading a fic where Chrono leaves Amy for Arf doesn't come across as believable for me (except as a humorous spamfic, which someone is now going to write...).

It always reeks to me of the author saying: "Well, I hate this character, but I like these two, so I'm gonna destroy the one I hate while bringing these two into a quick lovey-dovey relationship, despite the fact that they never showed these kind of feelings before."
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:11   Link #18355
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Messing too much with it, just screams "I don't like what the creator did, so I'm making it MY way."
Uh... *Scratches head* Isn't that the purpose of fanfiction? To screw with what the creator did and do things your way?

@ Sulli, that's kinda rude and demanding. It took RadiantBeam and myself six days to get chapter 29 out.

@ Satashi, GAH! Vivio's so cute!
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:16   Link #18356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
One thing, I find that the character limit on these forums is WAAAAAY too small!
I think your chapters are just waaaay too big, oi x.o

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Originally Posted by SulliMike23 View Post
Hey 00-Raiser, when's the next chapter for your Decade crossover gonna be done?
Dunno. I have some papers I should be working on, but I'm a hardcore procrastinator. They're both due on Tuesday, but I have Friday - Sunday off, and I have plenty of time on Monday between classes to work on them too.

I should also finish off my 2nd Vivio centric fic, and the recent drama repeat on Nanochan inspired a Yuunoha fic, and there's also a solemn Remembrance Day style fic I wanna do.

So much to do... Well, I'm watching Kamen Rider Den-O right now, so that'll keep my interest in that fic on the top of the list. There's only the big fight chapter left to write anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
@ Sulli, that's kinda rude and demanding. It took RadiantBeam and myself six days to get chapter 29 out.
Don't worry about it Nanya. I can usually shoot out a chapter in a few hours. Of course they're not as long as yours x.o

If anyone wants an update, though, it's probably best to PM/visitor message me about it rather than make a post.
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:22   Link #18357
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I was only asking Nanya. Besides, it's rare for me to ask questions like that; especially when it comes to fics that catch my interest.
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:31   Link #18358
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I figured as much, Sulli, but stuff like that can come across as rude, that's all.
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:50   Link #18359
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Great chapter, I like the nod back to old plot-lines left dangling . Yay for the Amy inclusion!
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Old 2009-11-05, 15:15   Link #18360
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Originally Posted by Nanya01 View Post
"Get the treasure booty, boyos!" A pirate captain yelled as he pointed his sword out to the library.

"I'm a girlie, fat-ass!" A large-breasted pirate yelled and kicked the captain in the butt.

Arf groaned. "Summoning Leprechaun pirates that have human-sized robots?" Okay, the robots were big for the Leprechauns, but it was still ridiculous. She glared at the book. "What the heck is in these things?!" She ducked a blast from one of the robots. "And what's with that Ninja Pirate!?" She screamed, wondering why that guy had a sword strapped between his legs.

"Pirate Ninja!" One of the Leprechauns "corrected" her.

"Whatever!" Arf yelled at him.
Do what you want 'cuz a pirate is free~

You are a pirate~!
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