AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Current Series > Naruto

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2008-01-08, 20:19   Link #21
Ero-Senn1n
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunarskylar View Post
in every fight, the battle isn't won until there is a giant kock out jutsu
for kakashi it's raikiri
It was, now it is MS. But after he uses it he will be in hospital for a week. And then by your logic we get FRS > MS or it can be MS > FRS
Ero-Senn1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 20:22   Link #22
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
What does it matter, if he cannot use that power effectively? Naruto has one of the most powerful jutsus, he has 4 times the chakra capacity of Kakashi, but, at the end, he still needed the help of Kakashi and Yamato to avoid getting killed in the first try. Of course the opponent he faced was already reduced to a lower offensive capacity (his lower chakra and the number of new and old opponents restricting the use of his remaining capacity against a single opponent) and defensive capacity (reduced number of hearts in addition to facing other opponents that can join the fight at anytime) thanks to his early fights. (that is why I didn't find Kakuzu's loss an overly exaggerated loss to illustrate Naruto's strength)
But to be fair, remember that the first Rasengan fizzled out at the last second. Naruto's strategy worked perfectly the first time, but unfortunately for him, he was still getting used to the new jutsu. So Naruto got help from Yamato and Kakashi, but Kakuzu also caught a lucky break because if Naruto could've held the jutsu a second longer, Kakuzu would've been screwed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vision55
ALL of Naruto's wins over anyone is because they UNDERESTIMATED him so he got the jump on them and knocked them out. I do not foresee kakashi underestimating his former student.
With Kakuzu, it was the opposite. He was actually so worried about the power of Naruto's jutsu, that Naruto ended up using his own cautiousness against him. Kakashi probably knows most of Naruto's tricks, but it's not like Kakashi's incapable of being caught off-guard.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KageGunshi Shikamaru
The plot has given him potential to become a great ninja thats only surpassed by Sharingan.. in that he can't just look at a jutsu and learn it. As much as it pains me I think the author doesn't want him to use it. Naruto's character has always been the screwup that never gives up so I don't think theres any drive to make him powerful.
Well that's one of the theme's of the story, it's why they had a flashback of Jiraiya talking Oro. Knowing a bunch of jutsu is not what makes a great shinobi. Naruto represents that belief, so he doesn't need a boat load of techniques.
__________________



Sabaku Kyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 20:26   Link #23
Ero-Senn1n
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hidden Village of Sake
I think we can all agree that Naruto would never be able to win against Kakuzu by himself. He had big help from all the others, he took out only the remaining 2 hearts. While Sasuke took out both Orochimaru and Deidara by himself.
Ero-Senn1n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 20:32   Link #24
Grimkill7
Inattentive Dreamer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
The only thing that matter is what Kishimoto wants to happen with his characters.
QFT. Naruto isn't a democracy. The story doesn't follow what the readers think should or shouldn't happen. Whatever Kishi writes instantly becomes fact, not opinion. If Kishi writes that Naruto has surpassed Kakashi, he has. It's as simple as that. If you hate this revelation or any others, you'll have to take it up with Kishimoto himself.
__________________
Grimkill7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 20:37   Link #25
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n View Post
I think we can all agree that Naruto would never be able to win against Kakuzu by himself. He had big help from all the others, he took out only the remaining 2 hearts. While Sasuke took out both Orochimaru and Deidara by himself.
I don't agree. Naruto could've and would've won. Had the first Rasengan hit, Kakuzu would've been K.O.'d, I think even, if he had all 5 hearts. The jutsu destroys the body's ability to use chakra. Plus, Sasuke beat Oro while he was weakened and Deidara killed himself, so his victories weren't all that clear-cut either.
__________________



Sabaku Kyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 21:10   Link #26
KageGunshi Shikamaru
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Well that's one of the theme's of the story, it's why they had a flashback of Jiraiya talking Oro. Knowing a bunch of jutsu is not what makes a great shinobi. Naruto represents that belief, so he doesn't need a boat load of techniques.
Guess you're right. Kishi has a perfect opportunity to qualify everything he says about Naruto being different and Naruto surpassing the previous generation. I personally think it would be cool for him to learn those techniques. He has the potential of going into a fight with a clone that uses complementary jutsus to make the jutsus that he's using stronger IE. Kakazu with his wind and fire maks firing off at the same time. But reguardless he'll always attack with clones Naruto is Konoha's One Man Army.
KageGunshi Shikamaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 22:06   Link #27
Naotaka
Sensei
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
I really don't know if it's your guys hate for Sasuke, that makes you want to defend Naruto so he can look better then what he really is, or you guys blindly accept anything Kishi says, but either way, it's a crock of $h1t. Omg Kishi said, this so it must be true. Yep, I'll belive it when he's actually able to demonstrate it. He also said Naruto & Sakura were on Kakashi's level when they got the bells from him, to this point I'm not convinced, considering the cheap cop out he gave us all.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=70686&dateline=119772  7988
Naotaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 22:30   Link #28
naruto89
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naotaka View Post
I really don't know if it's your guys hate for Sasuke, that makes you want to defend Naruto so he can look better then what he really is, or you guys blindly accept anything Kishi says, but either way, it's a crock of $h1t. Omg Kishi said, this so it must be true. Yep, I'll belive it when he's actually able to demonstrate it. He also said Naruto & Sakura were on Kakashi's level when they got the bells from him, to this point I'm not convinced, considering the cheap cop out he gave us all.
Ha ha quality, its a fictional universe which kishi controls, what he says is law, no demonstrations are needed, accept the will of the author (master)
naruto89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 22:42   Link #29
Naotaka
Sensei
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Do as you wish, I don't intend to share your ideals.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=70686&dateline=119772  7988
Naotaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 23:27   Link #30
Sagittarius
'One'
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naotaka View Post
Do as you wish, I don't intend to share your ideals.
Uhhh what LOL???

Fact is fact what Kishi says goes, as stated he is the author, this isn't an ideal, it's fact.
__________________


"It's a Beautiful Day" U2
Sagittarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-08, 23:33   Link #31
X_Danny_X
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Kishi said Naruto and Sakura were on Kakashi level? I know he said that Naruto was on his level and possibly beyond when Naruto defeated Kakuzu.
__________________
X_Danny_X is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 00:53   Link #32
Naotaka
Sensei
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sagittarius View Post
Uhhh what LOL???

Fact is fact what Kishi says goes, as stated he is the author, this isn't an ideal, it's fact.
And you're welcome to belive this so called fact. Sorry but I refuse to believe something like that, until it's actually shown in the manga. When Naruto actually does defeat someone that Kakashi clearly couldn't have, I'll take the word on it, till then w/e. And no Kishi himself didn't say this, Kakashi said that he thinks Naruto has surpassed him, for all we know Kakashi is being modest. At best you have someone's opinion. Not a fact.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=70686&dateline=119772  7988
Naotaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 01:06   Link #33
Kiiroi Senko
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
I do indeed.

Last edited by Kiiroi Senko; 2008-03-25 at 16:25.
Kiiroi Senko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 01:18   Link #34
Cael
Lurker Mode
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by X_Danny_X View Post
Kishi said Naruto and Sakura were on Kakashi level? I know he said that Naruto was on his level and possibly beyond when Naruto defeated Kakuzu.
Jman and the Fifth both said that Kakashi was a given for being the next Hokage but that Naruto was still a little ways off. When Kishi/Kakashi say that Naruto has surpassed him, I have to think that he means in terms of strength or power. Because Naruto might be really good at sneeking up behind an enemy with shadow clones but it's clear to me that he lacks the kind of insight and analytical ability that Kakashi, Sasuke and other high level shinobi have. When you have a ridiculous amount of chakra, rasengan and unlimited shadow clones, you can give anyone a hard time. I think that with Narutos recent training with a sannin, has given him just enough to make him dangerous. Even though he doesn't have a lot of abilities, he has dangerous abilities with even more dangerous potential. Still, the fourth, Jman and Kakashi were able to make rasengan in one hand. If Naruto still can't do that after his training, he has a ways to go.
Cael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 07:53   Link #35
ChojinLocke
Year 2
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Age: 8
Kakashi is overrated. Naruto is underrated. Dunno if they fight i guess Kakashi would beat him because he knows him better than Naruto knows Kakashi. But what Kakashi said was that Naruto surpassed him which means Naruto has the necessary abillity to beat Kakashi..too bad he doesnt have the brains to match up the abilities.
ChojinLocke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 09:42   Link #36
Rurik
Golden
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: 9th Temple
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naotaka View Post
And you're welcome to belive this so called fact. Sorry but I refuse to believe something like that, until it's actually shown in the manga.
That's called Denial.

Anything said by the author is a fact until proven otherwise by Himself. Is like asking for proof that there is really a Mitsukage, because he has not been shown in the Manga.
__________________
"when you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." -
Rurik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 10:32   Link #37
naruto89
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by yaku View Post
I think Naruto never win against Kakuzu
Well then youre wrong he didnt kill him, but he damn right defeated him.

naruto is still too inexperienced to be able to pawn kakuza outright (case in point the failed rasengan) but what that fight demonstrated is that he has the skill to fight on that level e.g the kage bunshin assesment method and the capabilities to take out these S- level rank ninja, he has a jutsu now that if you were to underestimate him or make an error in a battle its game over because its a jutsu that exceeds just killing an opponent, he will bloody paralyse you aswell which surpasses techniques such as kakashi's raikiri that failed to take out kakuza because he was a freakish abomination, which a couple of these shinobi's seem to be , so techniques such as fuuton:rasengan are the future, I tell thee.

But it seems obvious naruto couldnt of completely surpassed kakashi overall eg scouting, experience but just on an area of skills/abilities

Last edited by naruto89; 2008-01-09 at 10:45.
naruto89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 11:31   Link #38
Hunter
Bubbly and super fun
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Doesn't look like Kansas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sazelyt View Post
Naruto should have beaten Kakuzu regardless of those helps, and the fight has no proof of that. And, Kakashi's fight against Kakuzu does not really mean a lot without the use of MS. If you want to consider Kakashi's MS the same as Naruto's Kyuubi mode (which has not also been taken into account during the evaluation), that is something I have to disagree.
I could discuss this further but truthfully this isn't not what i'm talking about.
You can go in great details about how Naruto was utterly outdoing Kakuzu in a couples of seconds before he messed up with the FRS or how because of this mess Naruto is still not up there or how weakened was Kakuzu after fighting many ninja and whether it really would have changed anything given Naruto's strategy and mini nuke jutsu or how credible was the whole fight in the first place but it is not my point at all.

All of this is merely about how good the fight was and how believable Kishimoto made his story during these events. I'm not going to defend this fight, you know I think it was stupid and worse, boring.
But it doesn't change what Kishimoto intends to show. You think that he completely failed to show this "new Naruto" Yamato talked about? You think it's ridiculous to see Kakashi comparing him to Yondaime and Tsunade thinking of him as a future Hokage given what we have seen? You think Kakashi must be talking out of his ass when he is repeatedly saying Naruto is at least his equal?
Well that's ok, in fact I agree Kishimoto didn't make a good job showing it, but it's not going to change a thing to what's going to happen.

It's like... Reading the volume 19 and hearing a spoiler about Naruto fighting Kabuto and laughting out loud at the idea that Naruto could somehow manage to land a blow on him and then watching Kabuto stupidly standing still and being struck down by a Rasengan or debating about the credibility of Naruto learning Kage Bunshin in a few hours whereas he sucked so much he couldn't learn any jutsu properly before.
You can find that unbelievable but it happened anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naotaka
He also said Naruto & Sakura were on Kakashi's level when they got the bells from him
No.
Hunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 12:36   Link #39
Naotaka
Sensei
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
That's called Denial.

Anything said by the author is a fact until proven otherwise by Himself. Is like asking for proof that there is really a Mitsukage, because he has not been shown in the Manga.
Nope, it's called being able to think for myself and make my own desicions. You should try it sometimes, instead of being a sheep, accepting everything that you're told. Like Cael pointed out, if Naruto was as great as you make him out to be, he would of been chosen for the Hokage position. Instead Jiraiya said, that he has a ways to go, and both, Jiraiya & Tsunade agree that Kakashi would probablly be the next one.

Sorry but fact is as you guys wanna point it out, that it's only 1 opinion that Naruto is on Kakashi's level. That opinion was given by Kakashi. As I've said before it could be nothing more then modesty. Since the Sannin don't seem to agree with that opinion either, I'll take their words over his. And till Kishi is actually able to show us decently that Naruto has actually surpassed Kakashi, I'll contine beliving what I want. Feel free to spin it any way you like, but I'm certainly no more wrong then you are.
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=70686&dateline=119772  7988
Naotaka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2008-01-09, 12:48   Link #40
Ichimaru
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Naotaka View Post
AWhen Naruto actually does defeat someone that Kakashi clearly couldn't have, I'll take the word on it, till then w/e.
i doubt kakashi wouldve been able to kill off kakazu

1on1 fight naruto vs kakashi, kakashi gets owned the moment 4tails comes out or when a FRS hits him = 1hko
__________________
SHINSOU
Ichimaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:07.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.