AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > General Anime

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2011-12-19, 18:06   Link #361
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
I'm very doubting TM fans "critiques" and bashing actually affect the sales in negative way, considering DEEN's F/SN and UBW numbers, UFOtable certainly doing better job, and they should know as rabid fan the box will have the uncut episode and more content anyway.

My point about KnK, that's just uber "minor"novel by nasu before it got re-released after all the hit, if compared to F/Z that direct tie-in for actual TM blockbuster its certainly different.


I doubt this is UFOtable decision.
I think you're still misinterpreting me. Bashing on any show has no consequences on sales (nor have I hinted at this), but I'm saying there are fundamental differences between the supporter of these shows. Just cause they all are part of the Nasuverse doesn't mean the target audiences are identical, and I am saying the differences might be big enough that F/Z would not sell as well. For example, how many F/Z audiences do you think actually understand everything that goes on in TM? Do I have the proof to say they aren't entirely different? Nope, since as I've said from the beginning, that's the impression I get from other message boards.

Obviously, I'm no expert when it comes to TM franchise; again I'm merely repeating what I'm observing, and I'm saying that at the moment it does not look like F/Z can beat F/SN or IS.
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 20:55   Link #362
Archer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
I'm saying that at the moment it does not look like F/Z can beat F/SN.
Well, naturally you're no expert if this thought even exists in your head. Which message boards have you even been to lately?

Fate/Zero was not a blockbuster during its novel run. It did decently, but not to the extent that one would expect from a Type-Moon work. The fact that people can even think of it as a blockbuster now only really highlights just how well the Fate/Zero anime is doing, since its popularity surged only recently. Coincidentally, this is also the same pattern that Kara no Kyoukai followed.
Archer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 21:55   Link #363
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post

Obviously, I'm no expert when it comes to TM franchise; again I'm merely repeating what I'm observing, and I'm saying that at the moment it does not look like F/Z can beat F/SN or IS.
I'd be surprised if F/Z fails to beat F/SN. From what I've read and seen, F/Z has been better received than the F/SN anime was.

That being said, anime movies tend to enjoy a bit of a sales advantage over anime TV series (which is why anime TV series often have their own separate sales list), so I'd be a bit surprised if F/Z hits KnK's numbers.

Somewhere between 30 and 40K is probably reasonable for F/Z.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 21:59   Link #364
Chaos2Frozen
The Evil Within
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The Moon that Wizard came from
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'd be surprised if F/Z fails to beat F/SN. From what I've read and seen, F/Z has been better received than the F/SN anime was.
So was FMA:Brotherhood, but it still sold less than the original
Chaos2Frozen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 22:22   Link #365
Marcus H.
Hunk o' Burning Love
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: the Philippines
But we're talking about DEEN pitting against ufotable here.
Although we're also involved in analyzing sales from series five years apart.

__________________
Marcus' Handpicked!
Summer 2014: Hanayamata, Rail Wars!, Rokujouma no Shinryakusha!?, Sabagebu!, Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun and Hanamonogatari.
Autumn 2014: Log Horizon S2, Amagi Brilliant Park and Fate/Stay Night (2014).
Excited for Mitou Shoukan://Blood Sign?


Contact me on Wikia, MyAnimeList and Hummingbird.
MyAnimeList Status|| Watching: 36. Completed: 214. Plan to watch: 33.

Marcus H. is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 22:26   Link #366
Last Sinner
Screw The Rules
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Summoner's Rift
Age: 33
Send a message via MSN to Last Sinner
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
So was FMA:Brotherhood, but it still sold less than the original
That was several reasons. First FMA adapdation was 50 eps, 2nd was 63. Ppl being asked to fork out for both?! I don't think so - not at those lengths. Secondly, the fact Bones was doing it because it's near to the ONLY big-selling title Bones has ever had made it clear they were doing it for the money with the lure of a more loyal adaptation as a hook. Third, the original FMA series had a lot of promotion and had high TV ratings within a prime-time slot to spread the word whereas the second one didn't.

As for F/Z and KnK novels - yeah, that F/Z novel was weak early, it took until late 2nd volume to kick in. Urobuchi admitted he learned to write properly while writing F/Z. While KnK was something Nasu wrote while he was in the 10th grade. Ufotable had to alter a lot of little things and flaws to make the movies as good as they were. Really, Haruhi is still the benchmark for light novels.

And if F/Z gets outdone by IS considering the waste of potential IS was, that will be a blight on the industry. If a hack job with a few perks outddoes something done more thoroughly, why should studios even try? It'll be a similar kick to the groin like Endless Eight was. But personally, I think Persona 4 obliterating most of the competition this year is lamentable if its numbers don't drop off much in latter volumes.
__________________
Last Sinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 22:57   Link #367
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Sinner View Post
And if F/Z gets outdone by IS considering the waste of potential IS was, that will be a blight on the industry. If a hack job with a few perks outddoes something done more thoroughly, why should studios even try? It'll be a similar kick to the groin like Endless Eight was. But personally, I think Persona 4 obliterating most of the competition this year is lamentable if its numbers don't drop off much in latter volumes.
I wouldn't put P4 on lamentable levels so long as IS is also in the same discussion (or End8). I'd rather have P4 beat everything into submission then be reminded that the best selling garbage in recent history was that level of garbage. P4 has its issues and QUALITY control really is going to be needed on the blu-rays, but its at least holding together a coherent plot, using most of its set pieces well, and has generally interesting characters and dynamics between them. I doubt P4s' sales will remain so astronomical through its whole run unless the series switches into top gear.

Now, if by some miracle F/Z manages to beat P4 (and I hope to the god I don't believe in except now when its convenient that it beats IS), then kudos to ufotable for somehow making a show about grown adults, with a complex plot, and all the other more mature intricacies that have slowly melted out of anime, sell.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-19, 23:14   Link #368
relentlessflame
 
*Administrator
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Age: 32
I think conversations about how series sell as it relates to people's own personal perspective of what is "garbage" and what isn't is of little value. Then again, I quite enjoyed Infinite Stratos for what it was and purchased all the Blu-Rays (including the recent OVA), so according to you lot I have garbage taste. It doesn't really bother me that you think that about me (I'm used to it), but I don't think it adds much value to this conversation overall. People buy what they want because they want to own it, as opposed to other options like renting it, buying it on some other form of media (book/game/etc.), or "just watching it once was good enough". When a certain series you think is crap ends up selling well, it just means that the people buying product aren't necessarily motivated by all the same things you would be or you think they should be. To belittle or dismiss the buying public's purchasing choices is completely besides the point, and basically amounts to whining that people don't share the same "refined" tastes you do (and don't buy accordingly). It's entertainment; people buy as they please. The onus is on the creators to make shows that people want to buy, if that's their goal, and on people in the audience to actually buy the shows they like if they want to send the message to the creators to make more shows like it.
__________________
[...]
relentlessflame is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 02:56   Link #369
Kunagisa
赤緑黒白
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
I think some of you are taking this way too personally.

Whether F/Z sells 100k unit or 10k doesn't concern me at all. I'm not bashing on the series nor am I bashing its fanbase (I watch unpopular/underrated series like Majikoi/UN-GO as well as the popular ones). We have 0 facts to base any of what will or will not sell until records from 2ch gets posted, and even those records are entirely based on Oricon, and even Oricon is freaking inaccurate. The only accurate statement we will ever see is if the company releases statement on it (like these). If you don't like making estimates base on OTHER estimates, I don't know what you're doing in this thread. Stalker points is incredibly low (again that's the only semi-reliable prediction we have right now and already mentioned by fertygo), and I still don't think the fanbase as strong as its indicated here at the English communities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archer View Post
Well, naturally you're no expert if this thought even exists in your head. Which message boards have you even been to lately?
The msg board I visit is komica (the Taiwan version of 2ch if you will) and Stage1. Over 90% of what I posted on this board came from there. As far as I'm concern, the most info there surpasses the speed of aggregate boards like yaraon and others and are mostly accurate, and there are literally people who sit there and talk about sales all day like people on ニュース速報 on 2ch's 【速報】アニメDVD・BDの売り上げを見守るスレ. Yes, I already mentioned I'm no expert, but I believe these people.

I also think P4 and Working's sales are overstated based on their Vol1 sales.
Kunagisa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 03:10   Link #370
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
I think some of you are taking this way too personally.
Well, just to speak for myself here, I'm not massively emotionally invested in Fate/Zero's sales figures.

I'd like to see it sell well since I like the show, but if it falls short of Fate/Stay Night I'd probably just be mildly disappointed.

At least Fate/Zero should sell decently well at least, which is more than I can say for some of my other most liked shows of Fall 2011...


Quote:
Stalker points is incredibly low (again that's the only semi-reliable prediction we have right now and already mentioned by fertygo), and I still don't think the fanbase as strong as its indicated here at the English communities.
I read that with Stalker points, it depends on if you run it through the BD-Box formula or not. With it, it is indeed pretty low. Without the formula, it's rather high.

The question is: How applicable is that BD-Box formula to a major anime release that wasn't first released in volumes? I mean, a major anime originally releasing in BD-Box format (as opposed to Blu-Ray/DVD volumes) is pretty unprecedented, to the best of my knowledge.


So, I guess in fairness to you, a lot of our educated guesses are just that: Guesses. We are dealing with something a bit out of the ordinary here.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 04:01   Link #371
fertygo
Hyakko Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 22
Some of you need take this into your account. Sales =/= Quality/Hype.

Plus F/Z have some circumstances with its disc release, its released in BD-Box format, many people already predicting the sales can take a little dip due to this. Maybe more fans will appreciate it but its not meant they all can afford 2 BD-box with 40000 yen price (its about 1000$ mind you)
I still believe F/Z is giant seller, but there's no proof that suggest its will be 30-40k+ seller like some people predicted.

And ffs there is no shame if F/Z can't beat IS or DEEN's F/SN number, if you that mad about it you can help with buying the BD-Box.
__________________
fertygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 04:41   Link #372
0utf0xZer0
Pretentious moe scholar
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Age: 27
I'm going to be amused if Fate/Zero's sales fall between the average and minimum per volume sales of one of the series people are so eager to compares its sales to, just because I know people will debate which is the "correct" number to measure against. (Personally, I say measure the box set against the minimum, since that's about how many people actually completed the volume set).
__________________

Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.
0utf0xZer0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 06:18   Link #373
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
And ffs there is no shame if F/Z can't beat IS or DEEN's F/SN number, if you that mad about it you can help with buying the BD-Box.
Exactly, people acting like 20-25k is bad need to get their damn head checked. It's also not like sales figures have any bearing on the future of the Fate/Zero franchise since these 2 seasons will cover all the light novel material. It's not a Bacanno situation where there's heaps of LNs after the anime covered and because it sold poorly we'll never see them adapted. It's kinda sad if people just want it to beat F/SN just due to the DEEN factor, like adapting a light novel isn't easier than a vn with multiple routes in the first place..
Westlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 10:46   Link #374
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
-snippity snip-
Apologies on my part, I used overly strong wording. I meant in no way to imply that it is bad for people to buy what they enjoy nor that they cannot enjoy something that does not match my opinion of what is watchable. But in the same way that you are able to buy the series and enjoy it, I am able to regard the series as lost potential and not buy it. And from there our opinions will naturally split.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Some of you need take this into your account. Sales =/= Quality/Hype.
It sets marketing trends, and it shows where the profit in the market lies. Look at the books industry for a pretty good example of this over the last fifteen or so years (similarly for the movie industry with all these recent *adaptations*). First it was Harry Potter which heralded a tidal wave of similar books. Then LotR was made into a movie and became incredibly successful, books of its genre began to flow out from every orifice. Now you have Twilight which has revitalized the vampire genre like no other. Its not necessarily about quality, as the former two are very good series/books, but the later is not exactly a literary piece of art, but they will set trends that become apparent as the years progress and companies seek safe profits.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 12:49   Link #375
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
The only trend that Fate/Zero would set would be getting more Urobuchi works animated and after Madoka that is hardly a problem in the first place.
Westlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 13:08   Link #376
Vena
Carpe Diem
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: ||At the edge of finality.||
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
The only trend that Fate/Zero would set would be getting more Urobuchi works animated and after Madoka that is hardly a problem in the first place.
That bit didn't particularly tie into F/Z, I was speaking more generally about sales & trends. If I were to hope for anything from F/Z, it would be that we see more of this style of mature characterization with depth. Madoka did this through the use of young girls, with depth to their characters, to drive a plot that was quite brutal/philosophical. Older characters are not a necessity as Madoka did just fine, but it wouldn't hurt to see more shows with older cast members that are at least competent.

For some variety, if nothing else.
__________________
Transcend Eternity
Vena is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 13:10   Link #377
Xellos-_^
Married
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: R'lyeh
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post

It sets marketing trends, and it shows where the profit in the market lies. Look at the books industry for a pretty good example of this over the last fifteen or so years (similarly for the movie industry with all these recent *adaptations*). First it was Harry Potter which heralded a tidal wave of similar books. Then LotR was made into a movie and became incredibly successful, books of its genre began to flow out from every orifice. Now you have Twilight which has revitalized the vampire genre like no other. Its not necessarily about quality, as the former two are very good series/books, but the later is not exactly a literary piece of art, but they will set trends that become apparent as the years progress and companies seek safe profits.
there were plenty of Vampire books before twilight revitalized the industry.
__________________
Xellos-_^ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 13:27   Link #378
fertygo
Hyakko Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 22
What trend that expected to set by F/Z success anyway?

More good studios is serious working LN adaptation and not just JC. Staff doing mediocre job on it?

Frankly I think that's already achieved lately, with studio such like Sunrise and A-1 working (and/or) LN adaptation with high attention.
__________________
fertygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 13:32   Link #379
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Not like there's many LNs left to adapt anyway.... what's the biggest one aside from Nisio's Zaregoto anyway?
Westlo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2011-12-20, 13:46   Link #380
fertygo
Hyakko Fanboy
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Age: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Not like there's many LNs left to adapt anyway.... what's the biggest one aside from Nisio's Zaregoto anyway?
They can just pull bake/IS out of nowhere, picking series that unique or very fitting for anime-media and BOOM!

IS/Bake isn't exactly the "thing" on LN and its just explode with the anime.

By that I mean something that bigger name in LN like Haganai won't touch those 2 success at this point.
__________________
fertygo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
news, sales, statistics

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.