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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 107 55.73%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 48 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 6.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 4.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.08%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.08%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.52%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.52%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 2.60%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-01-24, 00:44   Link #481
Demongod86
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The problem being even after *multiple* detonations, we see *very* little effects on the gundams. My point is that given what happened to them over the course of ~15 hours, wouldn't it have been wiser to tank the missiles initially and just get out with whatever damage sustained then?

I mean gee...if I was flying that gundam and missiles are shooting at me, I think I'd try to escape into the clouds rather than land in plain sight.

It makes me as to why the meisters would employ such horrid tactics. If they knew the strength of the machines, they'd make a run for it and take whatever pot shots that entailed rather than getting caught in the inevitable hairball that followed--and they KNEW it was coming since the plan was to GTFO immediately.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:46   Link #482
Narutaro
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I honestly think the battle is well planned by the writers. sure the director can show a little bit more about Gundam's strategy, but with little bit thinking, I can guess what Sumeragi's battle plan is and what's B2 and B5 plan is. the reason they got pinned down is simply because the 3 faction have better strategy.

what I meant is, it didn't felt forced and actually felt logical.

if you want example of bad plot device or characters forced to do something outside their character for the sake of the plot, try watching second season of Heroes. now that's bad writing
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:50   Link #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The problem being even after *multiple* detonations, we see *very* little effects on the gundams. My point is that given what happened to them over the course of ~15 hours, wouldn't it have been wiser to tank the missiles initially and just get out with whatever damage sustained then?

I mean gee...if I was flying that gundam and missiles are shooting at me, I think I'd try to escape into the clouds rather than land in plain sight.
As already pointed out a few posts above, it's been repeatedly shown with several examples in the series that the Gundams are gonna have difficulty trying to tank said shots while trying to move. They can tank the shots, and they can move, but trying to do both at the same time wouldn't be the easiest thing to do especially with an unceasing barrage of firepower. They'd be easier to knock around if they got hit while moving.

Also who says they're not gonna knock down the Gundams again and again with the same tactics they did to bring them down?

And finally, as is the main point of the episode is all about... the Gundams themselves may take it, but the pilots certainly can't. They're still only human underneath that mass of armor, and unfortunately no armor can stop inertia from exerting itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Narutaro View Post
I honestly think the battle is well planned by the writers. sure the director can show a little bit more about Gundam's strategy, but with little bit thinking, I can guess what Sumeragi's battle plan is and what's B2 and B5 plan is. the reason they got pinned down is simply because the 3 faction have better strategy.
Agreed. The pilots even knew about these plans (thus Lockon referring to the plan moving to B2). Most likely Sumeragi had already briefed the pilots on contingency plans in case a particular phase didn't go as planned. Unfortunately the powers were really that much better.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:50   Link #484
DJ_RockmanX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The problem being even after *multiple* detonations, we see *very* little effects on the gundams. My point is that given what happened to them over the course of ~15 hours, wouldn't it have been wiser to tank the missiles initially and just get out with whatever damage sustained then?

I mean gee...if I was flying that gundam and missiles are shooting at me, I think I'd try to escape into the clouds rather than land in plain sight.

It makes me as to why the meisters would employ such horrid tactics. If they knew the strength of the machines, they'd make a run for it and take whatever pot shots that entailed rather than getting caught in the inevitable hairball that followed--and they KNEW it was coming since the plan was to GTFO immediately.
The outside observer's view of the battle gives us the bias of seeing little effect on the Gundams. That, and Sunrise just doesn't have the budget to have the Gundams flinch every time they are hit with a shell. No matter how much time has passed during the battle, the Meisters are still feeling the entire shock of every impact.

Getting into a defensive position is far smarter than flying into the sky to try and flee. It reduces the shock to the pilot's body, and getting knocked out of the sky repeatedly only leaves the Gundams in a worse position to be captured with each attempt to escape.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:53   Link #485
Narutaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
The problem being even after *multiple* detonations, we see *very* little effects on the gundams. My point is that given what happened to them over the course of ~15 hours, wouldn't it have been wiser to tank the missiles initially and just get out with whatever damage sustained then?

I mean gee...if I was flying that gundam and missiles are shooting at me, I think I'd try to escape into the clouds rather than land in plain sight.

It makes me as to why the meisters would employ such horrid tactics. If they knew the strength of the machines, they'd make a run for it and take whatever pot shots that entailed rather than getting caught in the inevitable hairball that followed--and they KNEW it was coming since the plan was to GTFO immediately.
yeah the gundams are barely scratched, doesn't mean it have no effect to the pilot though. the gundam armor in this series is established as being unbelievably strong. but how are you going get out when the missiles come continuously. they don't have time to flee, in fact when the barrage finally stop, Virtue and Exia immediately get the hell out of there. that's how Exia manage to get away after all even though got stopped by Agrrissa not long after his escape.
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Old 2008-01-24, 00:57   Link #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narutaro View Post
yeah the gundams are barely scratched, doesn't mean it have no effect to the pilot though. the gundam armor in this series is established as being unbelievably strong. but how are you going get out when the missiles come continuously. they don't have time to flee, in fact when the barrage finally stop, Virtue and Exia immediately get the hell out of there. that's how Exia manage to get away after all even though got stopped by Agrrissa not long after his escape.
Speaking of Exia bailing from the battle and separating from Virtue, now THAT was a bad move. Had Setsuna stuck with Tieria, he'd have been able to defend Tieria from Patrick and his crack(head) Gundam capture team. Well hopefully at least.

THIS is what you should be complaining about, DG86. Setsuna's decision to break from Virtue was tactically unsound.
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Old 2008-01-24, 01:01   Link #487
Narutaro
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Speaking of Exia bailing from the battle and separating from Virtue, now THAT was a bad move. Had Setsuna stuck with Tieria, he'd have been able to defend Tieria from Patrick and his crack(head) Gundam capture team. Well hopefully at least.

THIS is what you should be complaining about, DG86. Setsuna's decision to break from Virtue was tactically unsound.
not sure about that, they could both get caught in the end. who knows
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Old 2008-01-24, 01:06   Link #488
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Who knows indeed, but sticking together still is a lot better than leaving your fellow soldier to fend for himself. The whole point of putting Exia with Virtue was for Setsuna to defend Tieria from close range assaults anyway, while Tieria focused on being a long range artillery type. You saw how well Tieria was doing when he took charged shots at close range targets, both midway and late into the battle.
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Old 2008-01-24, 01:46   Link #489
monster
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Originally Posted by Panon View Post
Kyrios is the only suit of the four that could have escaped by air and it was knocked to the ground first.
Did anybody see how this could've happened? It seemed to me like a Realdo managed to crash into Kyrios, but that doesn't seem right especially when a few moments later we saw Exia caught up with two flying Realdos from standing position. Is Exia faster than Kyrios in terms of atmospheric flight?
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Old 2008-01-24, 01:58   Link #490
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Originally Posted by monstert View Post
Did anybody see how this could've happened? It seemed to me like a Realdo managed to crash into Kyrios, but that doesn't seem right especially when a few moments later we saw Exia caught up with two flying Realdos from standing position. Is Exia faster than Kyrios in terms of atmospheric flight?
Atmospherically Kyrios should still have the speed advantage, while Exia excels in maneuverability. But that doesn't matter much in the comparison here.

Exia went from a state of rest to closing in on the the acceleration-deficient Realdos with ridiculous acceleration. Setsuna was able to easily catch up to the Union pilots because the Realdos had only been at cruising speed for their patrol, and their rate of acceleration in fleeing couldn't put much distance between them and Exia.

Kyrios on the other hand went from a cruising speed for Dynames's sniping to nearly a halt after the missile barrage. By the time it and Dynames were out of the missile barrage, the amount of deceleration left Kyrios and Dynames susceptible to the line of Realdos that had been advancing on them at a constant speed/acceleration.

I hope I remembered all the physics correctly.
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Old 2008-01-24, 01:58   Link #491
Kaioshin Sama
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As always I have my collective summary and thoughts posted.

This episode truly signals the end of the first act of the series, and basically it's come full circle up to this point. I look forward to the next episode to see just what happens and if the 3 Power will get their prizes or not.
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Old 2008-01-24, 02:04   Link #492
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
As always I have my collective summary and thoughts posted.

This episode truly signals the end of the first act of the series, and basically it's come full circle up to this point. I look forward to the next episode to see just what happens and if the 3 Power will get their prizes or not.
Always a pleasure to read your thoughts on the episode, even if we're halfway through the week.
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Old 2008-01-24, 02:06   Link #493
monster
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I hope I remembered all the physics correctly.
Thanks, and I hope so too.
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Old 2008-01-24, 02:07   Link #494
Chase
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
As always I have my collective summary and thoughts posted.

This episode truly signals the end of the first act of the series, and basically it's come full circle up to this point. I look forward to the next episode to see just what happens and if the 3 Power will get their prizes or not.
nice. lmao @ what you said about Louise and the Kira reference
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Old 2008-01-24, 03:20   Link #495
lordgemini
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You know what is sad, to came in play after all is already said

Ok but let's say somethings

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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
She made several plans. In case you didn't see the sub, she was constantly saying that they should switch plans at about a certain time.
Yes, I know she made a lot of plans, but the main issue was that the enemy will try to tire the pilots, and her tactics don't made any effort to lessen that issue. The plan was a good one but it doesn't seem to lessen that effect.

Also , I don't know if the power use "all the offensive power" in this operation, after all, they want to capture the gundams, not to blow them into pieces, that 's a good reason to think they would only do a few scratches.

Also, I want to known what will do the powers if the faill in this mission.
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Old 2008-01-24, 04:01   Link #496
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Originally Posted by lordgemini View Post
Yes, I know she made a lot of plans, but the main issue was that the enemy will try to tire the pilots, and her tactics don't made any effort to lessen that issue. The plan was a good one but it doesn't seem to lessen that effect.
Of course not. The point of each of her plans was to escape at every instance possible.

First Phase: After taking down the terrorists, Lockon and Allelujah get out as fast as possible.

Problem: They're shot out of the sky and forced to land, and must take defensive positions so as not to be so easily subdued.

Plan B2: Exia and Virtue enter the battle, and Virtue cuts a path for Dynames and Virtue to escape. Dynames and Kyrios will regroup with Exia and Virtue, and the Gundams can make their way out from here.

Problem: Exia and Virtue are pinned down after Tieria creates the trench. Too much time passes before Lockon and Allelujah join up with Setsuna and Tieria.

Plan E5: Soma and the HRL enter the picture, and Allelujah will be unable to battle normally. Lockon must cover for Allelujah as best as he can, and then they must continue on to regroup with Setsuna and Tieria.

Problem: The Meisters can no longer regroup at this point. That is all.

Lockon even showed his frustration after Plan E5 began (Conclave-Mendoi sub): "Things are going according to plan?!" Things were playing out the way they were supposed to according to Sumeragi's strategy, and it really did involve them taking so much punishment. Problem is that there was no resolution for the endgame as far as I can tell, other than losing to the world armies.
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Old 2008-01-24, 04:02   Link #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin_Sama View Post
As always I have my collective summary and thoughts posted.

This episode truly signals the end of the first act of the series, and basically it's come full circle up to this point. I look forward to the next episode to see just what happens and if the 3 Power will get their prizes or not.
For a sec, I don't understand why there is Shana picture in your review . I thought you make a mistake while writing a review until I saw that "Urusai! x3".
Nice review, as always.

P.S: Thank for an awesome Shana pic .
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Old 2008-01-24, 05:04   Link #498
lordgemini
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@DJ_RockmanX: Yes I give you all the reason, I know the paln and i see the stages, but as Lockon said, Things were gone according to plan, but What was the plan??????, the situation only lead to a resistance of 15 hours that will end in defeat. I don't knew but in my opinion, or

a) the defeat was planned. it os something like "let the power fell confident and then attack them with equip trinity when they are tired" or something like that. Only the meisters don't knew the plan. to keep the secrecy about the other CB teams

or

b) Sumeragi plan was defeated, and I still don't see the main reason of her plan E5

I will not say that the plan was bad or anything, only that she doesn't seem to take in account what the facts and Billy tell her, that they will atack to break down the pilots, not the gundams. But is only and opinion
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Old 2008-01-24, 05:13   Link #499
SonicX_Zero
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Originally Posted by lordgemini View Post
b) Sumeragi plan was defeated, and I still don't see the main reason of her plan E5
What was plan E5 again? I mean really what was supposed to happen in plan E5?
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Old 2008-01-24, 05:16   Link #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgemini View Post
a) the defeat was planned. it os something like "let the power fell confident and then attack them with equip trinity when they are tired" or something like that. Only the meisters don't knew the plan. to keep the secrecy about the other CB teams
This theory depends on Sumeragi alone knowing about the existence of the other Meisters. Not even the CB crew seemed to have any clue besides the plans that Sumeragi laid out. We'll find out in the next episode I guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordgemini View Post
b) Sumeragi plan was defeated, and I still don't see the main reason of her plan E5

I will not say that the plan was bad or anything, only that she doesn't seem to take in account what the facts and Billy tell her, that they will atack to break down the pilots, not the gundams. But is only and opinion
I personally don't get it either. We never get her perspective again after the mention of E5, except near the end of the battle when she says that the Meisters' lives are fading away, so we can't tell exactly how far she planned ahead. But if she did plan further stages, you're right then: it's likely that all her contingencies failed.

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Originally Posted by SonicX_Zero View Post
What was plan E5 again? I mean really what was supposed to happen in plan E5?
The plan of E5 is never explicitly stated. All we know is that Sumeragi predicted Soma's entry into the battle, and that Allelujah would be unable to continue fighting well.

My guess is that it's at this point that she's scrapped the plans to regroup altogether, but no one can say for sure.
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