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View Poll Results: Mobile Suit Gundam 00 - Episode 15 Rating
Perfect 10 107 55.73%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 48 25.00%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 13 6.77%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 4.69%
6 out of 10 : Average 4 2.08%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 2.08%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 0.52%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.52%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 5 2.60%
Voters: 192. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-01-24, 05:35   Link #501
SonicX_Zero
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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
you're right then: it's likely that all her contingencies failed.
I wonder if did she even have any contingencies in the first place.



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Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX
The plan of E5 is never explicitly stated. All we know is that Sumeragi predicted Soma's entry into the battle, and that Allelujah would be unable to continue fighting well.

My guess is that it's at this point that she's scrapped the plans to regroup altogether, but no one can say for sure.
Well to me it seems her plans were bound to failed even before the battle started. It was like watching a RTS game and seeing the other player just committing all sorts of fail. =o
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Old 2008-01-24, 07:24   Link #502
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well, plan e5 might as well be everyone run for themselves, which is why exia and virtue separates after the bombardment ended

anyway, I think plan e5 didn't count soma forcefully separate kyrios and dynames, so for all we know, by the time Soma separate them, plan E5 already failed
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Old 2008-01-24, 08:35   Link #503
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I just watched and wanted to post, but decided to read the thread from page one. But found that there's too much too read due to awesomeness of this episode, then I forgot what I wanted to say in the first place.

If I'm correct, I wanted to say this episode is great, other than that I forgot. I gave it a 10.

Also looking for to Neena.
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Old 2008-01-24, 11:35   Link #504
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For a sec, I don't understand why there is Shana picture in your review . I thought you make a mistake while writing a review until I saw that "Urusai! x3".
Nice review, as always.

P.S: Thank for an awesome Shana pic .
It's gonna be weird watching her in this show for some strange reason.
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Old 2008-01-24, 11:52   Link #505
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The way I see it, Sumeragi knew the plan was doomed to fail. She planned it the best way she knew how under the circumstances. Best case scenario it would have worked and I actually think it actually helped the the Gundams in the long run: I don't think they would have survived as long if they all 4 went in guns a blazing. You could see it in her face the whole operation: she was torn because she pretty much knew it was a suicide mission. But the thing is they HAD to go. They are Celestial Being. This is the crap they do: facing the impossible to stop armed conflicts. Tieria even said as much a few eps back. The bad thing is that the 3 blocs did their homework ad pretty much used massive numbers to spank the gundams into submission. An awesome strategy indeed
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Old 2008-01-24, 12:12   Link #506
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This theory depends on Sumeragi alone knowing about the existence of the other Meisters. Not even the CB crew seemed to have any clue besides the plans that Sumeragi laid out. We'll find out in the next episode I guess.

I personally don't get it either. We never get her perspective again after the mention of E5, except near the end of the battle when she says that the Meisters' lives are fading away, so we can't tell exactly how far she planned ahead. But if she did plan further stages, you're right then: it's likely that all her contingencies failed.
And this is why I think it's easy to speculate that Sumeragi knew that the Thrones were the endgame of the contingency failure...

Remember when she was defeated by Sergei in space? She blamed her ineptness and cried about it being all her fault for getting the Meisters in a compromised position...In the space battle she was breaking her neck to give tactical support because she didn't want her mistakes to be the reason CB was outed... But now she's in Wang's sunroom sipping on a cup of joe talking about "This is the end of the meisters..."?? She even gives the auidence a pure foreshadowing with her psuedo-analysis to Billy about their being more Gundams and attack strategies...I think it's fair to think that Sumeragi not only knew of the Thrones, but also knew the Gundams would most likely be defeated void of a miracle...Even when Tieria gives his passionate pride talk about taking on the 3 blocs, you could see she was like, "This ain't gonna work..."
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Old 2008-01-24, 12:42   Link #507
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O_O...well that theory is interesting...does that mean we get a possibility for Sumeragi x Neena?

Other than that, when did Sumeragi have time to know the Throne pilots when the other pilots didn't? It seems Sumeragi's supposed to be one of the most innocent operatives of CB (next to Xtina it seems)...so what kind of shady dealings was she involved with and with whom? So does that mean there's someone higher in command than Sumeragi (besides Veda)? I was under the impression in terms of human beings, she was the head honcho...

Maybe not.
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Old 2008-01-24, 12:46   Link #508
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Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
O_O...well that theory is interesting...does that mean we get a possibility for Sumeragi x Neena?

Other than that, when did Sumeragi have time to know the Throne pilots when the other pilots didn't? It seems Sumeragi's supposed to be one of the most innocent operatives of CB (next to Xtina it seems)...so what kind of shady dealings was she involved with and with whom? So does that mean there's someone higher in command than Sumeragi (besides Veda)? I was under the impression in terms of human beings, she was the head honcho...

Maybe not.
She's the head huncho of the ship and the 4 gundams under her care. CB is a much, much larger organization and it has been said that different operatives are in the dark of what other operatives are doing, in case they get captured; in other words, plausible deniability.
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Old 2008-01-24, 13:54   Link #509
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They sucked. They need S-Freedom which can take out hundreds of mobile suits in one single multi-cannoned/lasered shot. LOL
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Old 2008-01-24, 16:21   Link #510
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And this is why I think it's easy to speculate that Sumeragi knew that the Thrones were the endgame of the contingency failure...

Remember when she was defeated by Sergei in space? She blamed her ineptness and cried about it being all her fault for getting the Meisters in a compromised position...In the space battle she was breaking her neck to give tactical support because she didn't want her mistakes to be the reason CB was outed... But now she's in Wang's sunroom sipping on a cup of joe talking about "This is the end of the meisters..."?? She even gives the auidence a pure foreshadowing with her psuedo-analysis to Billy about their being more Gundams and attack strategies...I think it's fair to think that Sumeragi not only knew of the Thrones, but also knew the Gundams would most likely be defeated void of a miracle...Even when Tieria gives his passionate pride talk about taking on the 3 blocs, you could see she was like, "This ain't gonna work..."
After some time i also wondered why she would say "This is the end of the Meisters" Now i dont think it was meant in the literal sense it could have meant this is end of the meisters roll or the end of their time and now its the time of Thrones. I didnt really didnt think it meant they were going to die her words were hollow like something was ending and now a new beginning. At least thats what i think the end of the meisters meant the end of their tour of duty and no longer will they spearhead missions.
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Old 2008-01-24, 17:48   Link #511
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Other than that, when did Sumeragi have time to know the Throne pilots when the other pilots didn't?
It may not even be a situation where she even knows who the Throne pilots are...It could be as simple as she was told that at any point if the Gundams are captured or in danger of being destroyed new Gundams would appear effectively phasing out her leadership...I mean if you think about it, maybe during the space battle verses Sergei the Thrones were already watching that battle from God knows where waiting to pounce if the Gundams got captured...Haha, maybe that's why Sumeragi was so sick and frazzled that she got outsmarted during the space-battle because maybe EVEN THEN she knew the Thrones were in arms-length of intervening...Tieria releasing Nadleeh might have been the only thing that kept the Thrones from appearing in that instance...Food for thought huh?

Moreover, it's kinda like being stuck between a rock and a hard place for Sumi...On the one hand the pilots wanna adhere to CB's ideology by fighting an impossible fight, but her leadership gets nullified when and if they lose that fight (Based on my speculation)...Perhaps that's why she was so enigmatically sober at the Wang house while examining the situation...
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Old 2008-01-24, 18:13   Link #512
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
It may not even be a situation where she even knows who the Throne pilots are...It could be as simple as she was told that at any point if the Gundams are captured or in danger of being destroyed new Gundams would appear effectively phasing out her leadership...I mean if you think about it, maybe during the space battle verses Sergei the Thrones were already watching that battle from God knows where waiting to pounce if the Gundams got captured...Haha, maybe that's why Sumeragi was so sick and frazzled that she got outsmarted during the space-battle because maybe EVEN THEN she knew the Thrones were in arms-length of intervening...Tieria releasing Nadleeh might have been the only thing that kept the Thrones from appearing in that instance...Food for thought huh?
Except, Allelujah was already captured and secured before that; the existence of Halelujah was something that Sumeragi, the Meisters, or the HRL knew or expected; as far as Tieria, Veda's fanboy, knew, the HRL had already captured a Gundam before. If the Thrones were to intervene if a Gundam was captured, it would have been when a gundam was already being shuttled away.


Quote:
Moreover, it's kinda like being stuck between a rock and a hard place for Sumi...On the one hand the pilots wanna adhere to CB's ideology by fighting an impossible fight, but her leadership gets nullified when and if they lose that fight (Based on my speculation)...Perhaps that's why she was so enigmatically sober at the Wang house while examining the situation...
Actually, Sumeragi has always been sober, no matter what. We have yet to see her the tiniest bit tipsy, despite being seen drinking almost every episode to date. Sumeragi is always drinking, but never drunk.
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Old 2008-01-24, 19:00   Link #513
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Except, Allelujah was already captured and secured before that; the existence of Halelujah was something that Sumeragi, the Meisters, or the HRL knew or expected; as far as Tieria, Veda's fanboy, knew, the HRL had already captured a Gundam before. If the Thrones were to intervene if a Gundam was captured, it would have been when a gundam was already being shuttled away.
Yeah you're right, so maybe all 4 Gundams have to be in danger then...Or maybe they backed off once Hal escaped...

Quote:
Actually, Sumeragi has always been sober, no matter what. We have yet to see her the tiniest bit tipsy, despite being seen drinking almost every episode to date. Sumeragi is always drinking, but never drunk.
Not during the space-battle she wasn't...Maybe because her own life was in danger, but in this episode it seemed to me like she had already succumb to the fact that everything was about to change after this battle...IMO she was cleary "out of it" unlike any other battle...Almost like she came to terms with the eventual endgame...
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Old 2008-01-24, 19:05   Link #514
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I don't think CB ever told Sumeragi about the Thrones. I think she just figured out they had some other Gundams because of her battle planning abilities. If she can predict the actions of the 3 power blocs she can probably predict some of CB's actions as well.
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Old 2008-01-24, 19:12   Link #515
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I don't think CB ever told Sumeragi about the Thrones. I think she just figured out they had some other Gundams because of her battle planning abilities. If she can predict the actions of the 3 power blocs she can probably predict some of CB's actions as well.
I like this theory. I also think CB's not going to tell sumeragi about thrones. but really like the idea of Sumeragi can predict CB's moves. more power to sumeragi yay
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Old 2008-01-24, 19:21   Link #516
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Yeah you're right, so maybe all 4 Gundams have to be in danger then...Or maybe they backed off once Hal escaped...
It was quite clear that Allelujah was comatose for a decent while; they went from field restrictions such as wires to the "safety" of the inside of a transport in entirely new restraints by the time he woke up. If it weren't for the fact that the HRL wanted the obviously non-active gundam whole, turning to a cock-pit cutter only after they couldn't open the suit any other way, they could have done what they tried to do to the Virtue and chopped it to bits at any point in that time. For them to have "backed off" while Hal escaped would have meant that they merely watched him be completely vulnerable for disection and capture for a good while.

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Not during the space-battle she wasn't...Maybe because her own life was in danger, but in this episode it seemed to me like she had already succumb to the fact that everything was about to change after this battle...IMO she was cleary "out of it" unlike any other battle...Almost like she came to terms with the eventual endgame...
"Out of it" =/= drunk. Sumeragi was having issues with failure, true, but she wasn't drunk. She was perfectly coherent, her thought speed was as fast as ever as she picked out exactly what AND how Sergei had gotten her, and she had plenty of control to maneuver in zero-g to get out of the cockpit.

So tell me, how was she drunk (literally)?
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Old 2008-01-24, 22:00   Link #517
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It was quite clear that Allelujah was comatose for a decent while; they went from field restrictions such as wires to the "safety" of the inside of a transport in entirely new restraints by the time he woke up. If it weren't for the fact that the HRL wanted the obviously non-active gundam whole, turning to a cock-pit cutter only after they couldn't open the suit any other way, they could have done what they tried to do to the Virtue and chopped it to bits at any point in that time. For them to have "backed off" while Hal escaped would have meant that they merely watched him be completely vulnerable for disection and capture for a good while.
Well I wasn't suggesting they were 5mins away...Prolly more like a lightyear away^^...In any event this was a loose speculation at best...My only point here was that maybe the Thrones were en route is all...Maybe they were asked to deploy when Al was captured, but didn't make it in time (as this was a surprise attack vs. the earth battle that was an obvious trap so the Thrones could have already deployed themselves near the engagement area)...

Quote:
"Out of it" =/= drunk. Sumeragi was having issues with failure, true, but she wasn't drunk. She was perfectly coherent, her thought speed was as fast as ever as she picked out exactly what AND how Sergei had gotten her, and she had plenty of control to maneuver in zero-g to get out of the cockpit.

So tell me, how was she drunk (literally)?
I think you misunderstood me...My point had nothing to do with Sumi's pension for getting $hitfaced nor did it have to do with her space battle verses Sergei...My point was that during the recent earth battle she seemed to have the demeanor of someone who had accepted that defeat was imminent...By "out of it" I meant she seemed like she was daydreaming or something, talking in the 3rd person about the meisters being defeated instead of her usual laid-back, yet tactical self...The whole team had an enigmatic soberness to them while sitting in Wang's house because they basically had accepted defeat or prepared themselves for the worse (When they usually always have some degree of confidence)...
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Old 2008-01-25, 02:21   Link #518
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Well I wasn't suggesting they were 5mins away...Prolly more like a lightyear away^^...In any event this was a loose speculation at best...My only point here was that maybe the Thrones were en route is all...Maybe they were asked to deploy when Al was captured, but didn't make it in time (as this was a surprise attack vs. the earth battle that was an obvious trap so the Thrones could have already deployed themselves near the engagement area).
IMO is more like the second one, the thrones were not ready to deploy in that surprise attack (after all, they were found by a human mistake, in fact one of the dumbest mistakes I have seen in this serie) so they can't do a thing. In this new operation everyone knew of the battle, so the thrones could be ready to enter anytime (or maybe, after 5 o 6 hours of battle, CB decide to deploy them, and they need a few hours to leave the base and came to the earth)

About the existance of the other team, I am not sure if Tieria didn't know, after all, he is in contact with Veda and the Zealot of CB, so I will be not surprise if he knew already and keep their existance a secret to everyone. and after the battle he will be crying " we don't deserve to be gundam meisters, we show the Thrones in a so early stage".

Last edited by lordgemini; 2008-01-25 at 04:44.
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Old 2008-01-25, 02:34   Link #519
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Old 2008-01-25, 04:56   Link #520
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in the next episode preview, tieria have a surprised face, so I don't think he knows anything about thrones. actually the preview show all gundam meister in surprise
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