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View Poll Results: Spice and Wolf - Episode 2 Rating
Perfect 10 15 33.33%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 15 33.33%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 10 22.22%
7 out of 10 : Good 3 6.67%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 1 2.22%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 2.22%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 45. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-01-23, 07:40   Link #1
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Spice and Wolf - Episode 2 Discussion / Poll

Welcome to the discussion thread for Spice and Wolf, Episode 2.

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Old 2008-01-23, 10:10   Link #2
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Just Finished Watching This Ep ....I liked The First Ep better..
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Old 2008-01-23, 11:21   Link #3
Spectacular_Insanity
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I watched this episode and I have to say I was not expecting Horo to do that funny little whisker-line thing. It was quite funny. I also thought it was funny how Horo was acting like a little kid who broke her friend's toy when she was like "are you still mad?". XD

9/10, because I will watch the rest of this series.

Spoiler for Wheat:
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Old 2008-01-23, 13:47   Link #4
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A '9' .... excellent exposition of some of the complexities of our duo's personalities. Again some efficiency in storytelling, managing to show Horo as not being a simplistic archetype. I suspect my main complaint will be that a single cour was not enough for this series.

yeah, her "Are you still mad?" kind of tore the heartstrings there.
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Old 2008-01-24, 12:09   Link #5
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9/10

I found the little conversation between Horo and Lawrence at the end interesting.
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Old 2008-01-27, 20:42   Link #6
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Just picked up this series; love its opening episodes. I want more of these, they're fun to just watch. Screw the plot.



Yes, I'm serious. To the letter.
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Old 2008-02-25, 07:22   Link #7
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Question not convinced

5/10.
I must say I'm not interested much in what's happening. The story keeps on looking "plain".
Will I be watching the next episodes?

Oh, and I find the ED a bit too childish. Where are we here?
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Old 2008-02-25, 07:36   Link #8
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Story is plain? Are you sure you're watching the same show I am?
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Old 2008-02-26, 01:02   Link #9
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The interesting thing is that his review says more about him than the ser... well, the amazing part is that he's even in France apparently... where some of the basis for this type of story is part of the social and historical landscape (pre-christian local polytheism and animism, medieval motifs, economics of the Middle-Ages, etc).
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-09-19 at 22:54. Reason: hilarious getting a negrep for a year and a half old post :)
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Old 2008-02-26, 10:09   Link #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The interesting thing is that his review says more about him than the ser... well, the amazing part is that he's even in France apparently... where some of the basis for this type of story is part of the social and historical landscape (pre-christian local polytheism and animism, medieval motifs, economics of the Middle-Ages, etc).
Is it really based on France ?
As a fellow frenchman, the architecture of the villages / town reminded me more of Germany personnally (or rather the idea I have of Middle Age Germany)
For the polytheism and animism thing, well the entire gaul has been romanized by the pre-christian roman empire (battle of Alesia : 52 BC) and became christian with it. All pagans references quickly died as well as well as the roman ones. Pre-roman gaul was a celtic country (it wasn't really a country, it was a territory full of celtic tribes / kingdoms) and there is nothing in S&W that makes me think celtic or roman.
I thought the setting was more based on northern europe (mainly because wolfs have a bigger role in northern mythology and because their pagan tradition coexisted for a while with christianism and because they are headed north).
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Old 2008-02-26, 11:00   Link #11
Vexx
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Last time I checked, France was part of Europe, but I didn't say that S&W was based on France The motifs, however, are common to most of Europe. France and England also have their "wolf" legends and all areas have various holiday festivals that have pre-Christian roots (discussed in other threads).

The series itself seems to start in Northern Italy during the pre-Renaissance and they may travel into Germany-like lands on their way to Scandanavian areas. There's some Medici period vibes to the first adventure.

The motifs of the setting, however, are common to much of Europe. And even though pagan influences officially stopped in 452 AD across Rome's empire .... the countryside and rural lands persisted with local traditions for centuries - well into the Renaissance. There are festivities to this day in England and other countries in Europe that trace directly back to pagan roots though most people may not know the history of their "town festival".

But you're just nailing the reason I'm scratching my head about the post I questioned -- you're showing awareness of the history of Europe (I've got a couple of tabletop wargames for replaying the battle of Alesia ).

I cock my eyebrow a bit at people who don't seem to be aware of their local history (local = european) in this case. I've got no problem with someone simply not finding S&W interesting -- but the post (and previous ones by him) is giving me vibes of a much more fundamental "not getting" what is going on.
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Old 2008-02-26, 11:48   Link #12
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Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves? raphaŽl didn't explain why he felt the story is "plain" and it looks like he isn't keeping track of the ongoing discussion. I think it's a bit presumptious to think he is ignorant of his local customs as a result.

I recalled enjoying this episode because of Horo's cuteness. Looking back, this episode delved a little bit into Lawrence's past and showed us another side of Horo's personality we had not seen before. Plot-wise, the scene was being set for future developments, so nothing "major" happened per se. I guess that's why this episode can seem "plain" to some viewers.
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Old 2008-02-27, 12:23   Link #13
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Exclamation explanation needed

I think there's an expression saying " culture and science are like jam, the less you have the more you spread them".
That's exactly why I don't like people like Vexx, when they come and try to make you look like an ass. I noticed men in their 50s tend to do that when they're confronted to younger people. And I'm usually not fooled by them. And yeah, I know much more about my "land" (Europe) than I show. But unlike some, I never spread.

Anyway, the fact is I really thought no one would read my post, and yes again, i just meant to write down how I felt about it in a few words. "Plain" because trying in vain to look "intellectual", "educative", or "high-class". Maybe i'll change my mind in a few episodes. Anyway, it's no wonder vexx likes it already.

Then, still, as TRL said, Horo is cute, but, to me, not that different from the other deity in bishoujo shape i've seen so far ( next time I hope I can give you names). And Lawrence doesn't appeal to me at all, sorry. Remember the wandering hero of mushishi? He was classier.

Now flame me as you please, i haven't been around for a long time. It's like I don't care being unpopular anymore.
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Old 2008-02-27, 15:33   Link #14
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Yeah, yeah... but if you're going to post, Raphael - you should expect people to read and comment or dispute. So if you had originally *explained* why you have the opinion you do -- we wouldn't have to guess why you label the series.

Nice age stereotyping and insulting of me to sidestep the discussion.
I was having to guess why you think what you do about the series.
I happen to work with a lot of bright young people (I'm a debate coach and math/physics tutor) and I'm "confronted with young people on a daily basis" ... so your remarks don't stick well. Also a nice insulting negrep, however, I'll refrain from a "return fire".

Thanks for explaining your basis for your opinion of the series though. It might have saved you from the guesses we had to make concerning your posts on ep 1 and 2.
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Old 2008-02-27, 17:07   Link #15
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I was going to just leave this alone until I saw he hit me, too.
RaphaŽl, quite frankly you strike me as someone who will appear to be unintelligent and then jump on people when they assume you are, if only to show them how wrong they are and draw attention to yourself. I really don't enjoy discussing anything with people who do this sort of thing. Like Vexx said, if you had bothered to (or not intentionally refrained from, whichever it was) explain what you didn't like instead of "I didn't like it and the ED is silly," which is usually considered trolling around here, we could have avoided all of this nonsense.

But at least now I know that I can safely ignore your posts.
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Old 2008-02-27, 19:51   Link #16
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Arrow here we go again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Nice age stereotyping and insulting of me to sidestep the discussion.
Because you consider the following not insulting?

Quote:
The interesting thing is that his review says more about him than the ser... well, the amazing part is that he's even in France apparently... where some of the basis for this type of story is part of the social and historical landscape (pre-christian localpolytheism and animism, medieval motifs, economics of the Middle-Ages, etc).
Quote:
I cock my eyebrow a bit at people who don't seem to be aware of their local history (local = european) in this case. I've got no problem with someone simply not finding S&W interesting -- but the post (and previous ones by him) is giving me vibes of a much more fundamental "not getting" what is going on.
Who are you to judge me like that? Do you even know me or my background?
So yeah, the age stereotyping was completely intentional, and the moron thing too. I hate being insulted, just like everyone else. Oh, and just because you work with young people doesn't mean they all have to bow to everything you teach them.


Then OK, FPB, I used to post quite a lot here, and usually never received any feedback, so now I just happen to "concise" my posts, especially when I don't agree with the rest of the reviewers. That's my way to say "no, unanimity doesn't exist", and the thing is, I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that way, even here.
Call it trolling or whatever you want, It's my mistake and I'll live with it.
And please ignore my posts then. As I said, I wouldn't care less. It's just I like things to get straight when it comes to my "unintelligence".
I just tried to express how I despise intellectualization. Call me a retard if you like, I'd be actually quite proud to be that kind of retard.
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Old 2008-02-27, 21:14   Link #17
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One thing you have to understand about forums is that, other than what you say and how you say it, we have no other way to know what you're like. Since people who pop into threads just to say they don't like something to try and stir up a hornets' nest are common around here, and your post looked just like one of those posts.
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Old 2008-02-27, 21:17   Link #18
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Because you consider the following not insulting? ...
Yes, that was not insulting. People form ideas about someone based on the information or lack of it. That's how it works and it led to that assessment and you're not giving me much reason to change it so far. Saying someone doesn't seem to be aware of a class of subject matter based on their own words isn't an insult, its a hypothesis. You're welcome to supply data to dispute it and I'll change it accordingly. We can only work with what you tell us.

OTOH, making a sweeping generalization based on a stereotype of an entire age group rather than critiquing what an individual has said *is* being insulting or worse. Calling someone a moron *is* being insulting -- quite a bit different than "you don't seem to be knowledgeable about this subject".
You're also putting words in my mouth -- I didn't say anyone had to "bow" to what I taught. I said I spent time with young people every day and wasn't a stranger to their ideas. It was given in response to your idea that I was unfamiliar with being around younger people and listening to their ideas.

What your follow-up posts communicate to me is that you're not used to having your thoughts critically examined and react angrily when they are. Again, this is a discussion forum - not a press release site. Anyone posting should assume their comments may be examined and discussed, why are they posting otherwise?
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Old 2011-04-27, 10:15   Link #19
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watched this and ep 3 again. Seems like Holo is in a rather chippy mood and perhaps she is trying to impress Lawrence. Do you think she may have scoped him out earlier and chose him specifically? Its like a really good first date. Good vibes everywhere despite the over cautious Lawrence.
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Old 2011-04-27, 11:58   Link #20
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Originally Posted by Progbuusters View Post
Seems like Holo is in a rather chippy mood and perhaps she is trying to impress Lawrence. Do you think she may have scoped him out earlier and chose him specifically?
I think she chose him specifically, yes. He can't have been the only wheat merchant passing through Pasroe all that time, and it's clear she could have left on her own whenever she wanted to (she just didn't want to).

Since Lawrence had been through Pasroe several times before, and it's an event when someone arrives in a remote village like Pasroe, it's likely that she "scoped him out", and decided that he was a good candidate to be her sugar-daddy.

I think she was waiting for an excuse to travel with him, and that he wouldn't be that easy to win over. Let's face it: her cover-story is just cute nonsense designed to appeal to his ego and tug at his heartstrings. It didn't take him long to realize she was just lonely, like him.

I think she was trying to "impress him" in the sense that she wanted to prove she was indispensable. At first, all she could offer was flirty companionship, which she knew he was weak to. Of course, she's clearly weak to that as well, which is why we have a story.
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