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Old 2009-06-16, 11:38   Link #121
Riful
Of The West
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidoHunter_Toki View Post
Well "Hoe-Low" is pronounced exactly as I broke it up. The word "hoe" as in the gardening tool, and then "low" as in the english word pronounciation of the word "low".

Personally if it was pronounced as "Hoe-Low" I'd be perfectly okay with that, but "Hollow" (if said in the english pronounciation) I'd find strange.
ok I see. To me, "hoe" is definitely closer to the japanese pronunciation than the first part of "hollow". But both would be spelt the same in Katakana, so both are possible.
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Old 2009-06-16, 11:52   Link #122
Vexx
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What we know for a fact is that her name is identical to the ancient Ainu word for "wolf" (link already provided) ... its one hell of a coincidence if there isn't an intentional connection. Ainu words *are* written in katakana and its spelled both in the light novels and in the Ainu dictionaries using the same characters: ホロ

An additional problem is that there's no European given name that approximates her name.

Basically, the counter-argument you're using seems to be "we don't know for sure unless the author explains how he developed her name" - which is something I have to concede and why it'll never be utterly certain until then. But authors don't just pull their names out of the air - they design them to connect to the character.

Side note, Japanese look at alphabetical letters with an eye to their 'elegance' or 'coolness' factor which sometimes drives their choices more strongly than standards or accuracy. I've been told by a couple of correspondents that "L" simply looks nicer than "R" to their eye.

Hey, if it turns out I'm wrong I'll fold ... its just that so far the weight of the evidence seems to point to "Horo" more than "Holo". Either way, I'll pronounce it exactly the same
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Last edited by Vexx; 2009-06-16 at 12:12.
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Old 2009-06-16, 12:14   Link #123
Riful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
What we know for a fact is that her name is identical to the ancient Ainu word for "wolf" ... its one hell of a coincidence if there isn't an intentional connection. Ainu words *are* written in katakana.
not identical at least. The word apparently can be horkew or horokew or horokeu oO; so it's missing at least a bit. As said, imho it is a nice theory, but nothing more. I clearly prefer this theory over the "they chose it only for esthetic reasons", which is perfectly possible as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Basically, the counter-argument you're using seems to be "we don't know for sure unless the author explains how he developed her name"
Not really, the argument is: We do know for certain the spelling they chose and are actually using pretty much everywhere, for whatever reason. That's the only thing I wanted to make clear.

Quote:
But authors don't just pull their names out of the air - they design them to connect to the character.
That completely depends on the person, see Naruto or Dragonball for names pretty much pulled out of the air ^^;;

Quote:
An additional problem is that there's no European name that approximates her name.
who knows. I don't know every european name, but even if ... she is a fictional character and a wolf deity at that, so I don't see a problem with her not having an existing name.

Maybe the author will one day tell us his reasons, would be interesting at least ^^;;
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Last edited by Riful; 2009-06-18 at 04:45.
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Old 2009-07-10, 12:56   Link #124
Ashlotte
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She'll always be Horo to me...Whether its the official name or not...Even though its changing just one letter I can't imagine ever calling her anything else really...
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Old 2009-07-10, 15:55   Link #125
Vexx
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Just write "ホロ" from now on.... the pronunciation is identical with either "l" or "r" (if the speaker is doing it right).
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Old 2009-07-11, 02:24   Link #126
judgment26
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Japanese people have a hard time distinguishing between the two "liquid" consonants, so either way, it's gonna sound like "Horo."
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Old 2009-07-11, 02:41   Link #127
Riful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judgment26 View Post
Japanese people have a hard time distinguishing between the two "liquid" consonants, so either way, it's gonna sound like "Horo."
nah, that entirely depends on your ears, your native language and the other languages you know, i.e. your "phoneme repertoire". ^^
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Old 2009-07-11, 07:11   Link #128
MeoTwister5
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I usually just pronounce it the way she says in the first episode, and the way Lawrence usually says it.

The problem is that when I go rebuild my shrine, I'm still debating whether to use an R or an L for the English sign.
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Old 2009-07-11, 07:47   Link #129
Cipher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeoTwister5 View Post
I usually just pronounce it the way she says in the first episode, and the way Lawrence usually says it.

The problem is that when I go rebuild my shrine, I'm still debating whether to use an R or an L for the English sign.
Follow the author's spelling. Its pronounced as Horo and spelled as Holo.

My favorite Holo characteristics are:
1. Mature Feeling (when she changes the look in her eyes and her tone to match an etiquette manner)+combined with her fragile stature and relentless poise.
2. Her Accent+ Voice(Its quite comfortable to the ear)
3. Frank Attitude ( she's inconsistent yet true)
4. Inconsistencies (personality switches)
5. Her Age + Feel of Wisdom(that makes me think, what if she looked like a grandma, i wonder how their relationship would've progressed)
6. Relaxed and Very composed yet still threatened by danger.
7. last but not least, her yearning for company.
-she's strong yet weak...quite a trait I admire.
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Old 2009-07-11, 10:21   Link #130
Kaguya
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Although Horokeu Usui (Horo Horo) of SHAMAN KING with the same origin of a word uses "R" spelling, I do not know why S&W uses "L" spelling.
Probably, someone of Mediaworks editorial departments decided this, because the author had said that he was poor at English.
Although there is no Horo in "ENGLISH PRONOUNCING DICTIONARY OF PROPER NAMES" which I have, there is Holo.
Or it seems to be Roman alphabet spelling in case of "Horo." Probably, they hated becoming so.
Probably this affair will be based on such a trivial reason.

Last edited by Kaguya; 2009-07-11 at 10:42.
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Old 2009-07-11, 10:48   Link #131
Riful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaguya View Post
Although Horokeu Usui (Horo Horo) of SHAMAN KING with the same origin of a word uses "R" spelling, I do not know why S&W uses "L" spelling.
That's only a fan based theory. There's afaik no official statement concerning the origin of Holo's name. So while the theory makes sense, it might not have the same origin as Horohoro from Shaman King.

Quote:
Although there is no Horo in "ENGLISH PRONOUNCING DICTIONARY OF PROPER NAMES" which I have, there is Holo.
really? care to share what they say about it?
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Old 2009-07-11, 18:56   Link #132
Vexx
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All I've ever been able to find is a German baby BOY name of Holo... and no resource has a meaning for it listed.
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Old 2009-07-11, 21:34   Link #133
Cipher
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Just name an An american/english baby girl Horo and voila! we have one now.
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Old 2009-07-13, 13:29   Link #134
FTGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
All I've ever been able to find is a German baby BOY name of Holo... and no resource has a meaning for it listed.
O_O

well, either this baby boy has very cruel parents or its a lie. As far as I can say, there are no german babies called Holo (...not that I am an expert, but at least I am living there :P).
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Old 2009-07-13, 17:13   Link #135
Vexx
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That was from a search of various world "baby-names" listings, so YMMV. But it was the *only* listing at all. I also tried umlaut variants like Hölo.
I guess its just hard for some to admit that it just MIGHT be possible that someone in the graphics art department failed their romaji class or that it may simply have been that "l" looked cooler to the decider than "r". So it goes, like I said I'll probably just be writing ホロ from now on.
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Old 2009-08-22, 10:12   Link #136
BashZeStampeedo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
2. Her Accent+ Voice(Its quite comfortable to the ear)
I completely agree. The way Ami Koshimizu handles her is amazing. I still wonder what the word they are using in place of "baka" is (Update: It turns out it's tawake, たわけ, which apparently is only used much in Nagoya according to a quick search on Google).

Horo is really a beautifully pathetic character, so much so that it hurts. She seems so desperately lonely that she's willing to accept Lawrence as her companion, falls so completely for him, and yet keeps pushing him away for fear of being even lonelier in the end. She is too proud to admit defeat, even to herself, and yet Lawrence has her completely in the palms of his hands (even if he doesn't know what to do with her yet).

Last edited by BashZeStampeedo; 2009-08-24 at 13:19. Reason: Figured out what word she was using
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Old 2009-08-23, 02:24   Link #137
WuWei
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Quick questions for you Spice and Wolf afficionados:

Due to a very, shall we say odd circumstances, i ended up showing a few episodes to friends who don't regularly watch anime and the reaction right off the bat about Horo was the following:

1.) From the Renaissance Italian History buff: "She acts like a Venetian Courtesan! Her verbal sparring is exactly what they used to do!"

2.) From the Elderly Japanese gentleman/Relative of Friend: "Hahaa. She's like a heroine in a chambara Edo-period drama. She fits the mold of one of those "meek tea house girls/dangerous women" who with their Samurai/Merchant lovers helped overthrow the Tokugawa shogunate."

3.) From my Classic Films-otaku friend: "She's got a lovely Audrey Hepburn-esque quality. Go watch the move Roman Holiday with Carey Grant, Horo's got it down to a T."

4.) From a Guy who spent a little too much time/money in some of the shadier places in Ginza/Kabuki-cho: "All the smart Bar Girls i've ever known are like Horo. The know how to make the best conversation, stroke your ego, and drain your wallet dry before you know it, and you get left with nothing but maybe a wink and a smile."


Which kind of led me to the question: Has the writer ever actually stated what inspired Horo's personality?

The character traits of the above mentioned seem pretty much the same, with the same weakness too: Loneliness and Alienation.
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Old 2009-08-23, 03:54   Link #138
MeoTwister5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Quick questions for you Spice and Wolf afficionados:

Due to a very, shall we say odd circumstances, i ended up showing a few episodes to friends who don't regularly watch anime and the reaction right off the bat about Horo was the following:

1.) From the Renaissance Italian History buff: "She acts like a Venetian Courtesan! Her verbal sparring is exactly what they used to do!"

2.) From the Elderly Japanese gentleman/Relative of Friend: "Hahaa. She's like a heroine in a chambara Edo-period drama. She fits the mold of one of those "meek tea house girls/dangerous women" who with their Samurai/Merchant lovers helped overthrow the Tokugawa shogunate."

3.) From my Classic Films-otaku friend: "She's got a lovely Audrey Hepburn-esque quality. Go watch the move Roman Holiday with Carey Grant, Horo's got it down to a T."

4.) From a Guy who spent a little too much time/money in some of the shadier places in Ginza/Kabuki-cho: "All the smart Bar Girls i've ever known are like Horo. The know how to make the best conversation, stroke your ego, and drain your wallet dry before you know it, and you get left with nothing but maybe a wink and a smile."


Which kind of led me to the question: Has the writer ever actually stated what inspired Horo's personality?

The character traits of the above mentioned seem pretty much the same, with the same weakness too: Loneliness and Alienation.
1). I'd say it all boils down to her lengthy life experiences. She can easily converse and spar with Lawrence, contrasting Lawrence's experiences from travel and Horo's experiences with the people who have come and gone in her life.

2)+4). One of the other threads mentions that her speaking style resembles the style used by Edo-era or generally 19th-early 20th century courtesans... or perhaps shall we say prostitutes? I believe the author did intend for her to speak like this.

3). Because she is a god after all. She carries an air of nobility and elegance that is punctuated again by her charming wit. Pretty much why everyone in this subforum worships her to an unhealthy degree.
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:37   Link #139
FTGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
...
Which kind of led me to the question: Has the writer ever actually stated what inspired Horo's personality?
Interesting question. As far as I know the inventor of the story and characters of S&W never mentioned officially what actually inspired him to write this diverting tale.
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Old 2009-08-24, 06:55   Link #140
Cipher
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Originally Posted by FTGT View Post
Interesting question. As far as I know the inventor of the story and characters of S&W never mentioned officially what actually inspired him to write this diverting tale.
The question of Holo's name's origins should also be asked. "Hoe"-Lo's courtesans' speech malevolently leads me into the dirty corners of my encephalon(brain). Could that be a part of the author's inspiration? Medieval prostitutes?
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