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Old 2009-08-24, 12:02   Link #141
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Quick questions for you Spice and Wolf afficionados:

Due to a very, shall we say odd circumstances, i ended up showing a few episodes to friends who don't regularly watch anime and the reaction right off the bat about Horo was the following:

1.) From the Renaissance Italian History buff: "She acts like a Venetian Courtesan! Her verbal sparring is exactly what they used to do!"

2.) From the Elderly Japanese gentleman/Relative of Friend: "Hahaa. She's like a heroine in a chambara Edo-period drama. She fits the mold of one of those "meek tea house girls/dangerous women" who with their Samurai/Merchant lovers helped overthrow the Tokugawa shogunate."

3.) From my Classic Films-otaku friend: "She's got a lovely Audrey Hepburn-esque quality. Go watch the move Roman Holiday with Carey Grant, Horo's got it down to a T."

4.) From a Guy who spent a little too much time/money in some of the shadier places in Ginza/Kabuki-cho: "All the smart Bar Girls i've ever known are like Horo. The know how to make the best conversation, stroke your ego, and drain your wallet dry before you know it, and you get left with nothing but maybe a wink and a smile."


Which kind of led me to the question: Has the writer ever actually stated what inspired Horo's personality?

The character traits of the above mentioned seem pretty much the same, with the same weakness too: Loneliness and Alienation.
You have some very insightful friends ALL those characterizations work for me

But sorry, I've not come across any interview where the author spoke of his inspirations for the characters (or even the storyline).
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Old 2009-08-26, 15:50   Link #142
Kaguya
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Originally Posted by WuWei View Post
Which kind of led me to the question: Has the writer ever actually stated what inspired Horo's personality?

The character traits of the above mentioned seem pretty much the same, with the same weakness too: Loneliness and Alienation.
According to the interview to Isuna Hasakura, only Horo's language such as "...arinsu.", and beast ear were specified as her character.
When the writer creates a character, he opts only for rough setting, such as Horo's "beast ear and tail", and Lawrence's "peddler."
First of all, the writer appointed Lawrence as the leading role, and as a result of actually moving a character, Horo was characterized as such personality.
Therefore, a clear personality is not compelled to any characters.
That is, in order to emphasize Lawrence's weakness, Horo is sometimes strong, and in order to emphasize Lawrence's tenderness, Horo is sometimes lonely.

About Horo's language, the writer was charmed by one scene of "SAKURAN" which took up the red-light district Yoshiwara in the Edo period, and he adopted the heroine's language.

About Horo's beast ear, the writer was touched off by "The Golden Bough" written by James George Frazer, and he adopted beast ear.
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Old 2009-08-27, 10:31   Link #143
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Thanks to the all knowing Kaguya! ^^
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Old 2009-08-31, 07:33   Link #144
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Regarding the possibility of Horo still being "untouched", I found this little comment in the vast areas of the internet:

Quote:
Hmmm I think Horo may still be a Virgin. Even though she does have a human form she still thinks very much like a wolf and wolves usually don't have sex unless it's to produce off spring and I'm pretty sure Horo isn't a mother, she would have at least said so by now. Also Horo is a goddess of harvest. Which ties in with fertility, which is associated with the Virgin image. Also back then I'm pretty sure they had little to no contraceptives, so if she was having sex, it would be fair to say she would have kids by now. But also because of Horo's own personalty has some thing to do with it. I think Horo is way to proud to be dominated by a man like that.
That sounds pretty plausible to me....
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Old 2009-08-31, 11:04   Link #145
Vexx
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And also a load of bollocks I'll eviscerate each assumption it makes later when I have more time. Frankly, I view the whole "is the heroine a virgin or not" to be one of the most immature facets of otaku-dom.

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-08-31 at 11:29.
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Old 2009-08-31, 15:12   Link #146
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And also a load of bollocks I'll eviscerate each assumption it makes later when I have more time. Frankly, I view the whole "is the heroine a virgin or not" to be one of the most immature facets of otaku-dom.
No kidding. The way she behaves I doubt she cares about such things. And the way Lawrence behaves I doubt he cares. For all we know it's the reason Horo's so pissed off at Amarty, but why dwell on it so intently?

I suppose one can argue about whether she can even have children with a human. After all, Horo's seems to have been itching to figure that one out for a while, and even Lawrence seems at least curious. But again, dwelling on something that only the story can answer is at best pointless when there is so much story left to cover.
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Old 2009-08-31, 20:38   Link #147
Komitadji
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I've been thinking:
Horo's non-sexualized nudity is a depiction of her divinity.
Before Christianity took over Europe, most of the classical Cultures of Europe and the Mediterranean world depicted divine figures in the nude. Greek and Roman gods were depicted in the nude, 'divine' and 'semi-divine' humans such as 'divine' kings and emperors were depicted in the nude in art and sculpture when their mortal counterparts were clothed.

Horo's nudity is a representation of her divine or semi-divine nature and because of that if anyone accuses fans of Spice & Wolf of being perverts just looking at Horo, we can explain that there are very good symbolic reasons why Horo is frequently depicted in the nude in a non-ecchi way...
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Old 2009-09-01, 02:04   Link #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And also a load of bollocks I'll eviscerate each assumption it makes later when I have more time. Frankly, I view the whole "is the heroine a virgin or not" to be one of the most immature facets of otaku-dom.

I didnt meant to bring up an immature aspect. I just wanted to liven this thread up a bit. *success*

Last edited by FTGT; 2009-09-01 at 02:53.
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Old 2009-09-01, 12:03   Link #149
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Not yelling at you (sorry if it seemed like that) ... but I was pretty put out by the "Nagi incident" and it rubs my fur the wrong way that some idiot somewhere is trying the idea out on ホロ. Here, I'll just address the incorrect assumptions of the writer:

Hmmm I think Horo may still be a Virgin.
Opinion, everyone is welcome to an opinion. But then the rest of it goes downhill.

Even though she does have a human form she still thinks very much like a wolf and wolves usually don't have sex unless it's to produce off spring
False. Wolves have sex to bond and to maintain pack relationships. I've seen a number of ridiculous posts in which writers basically document they have no clue how wolves work.

and I'm pretty sure Horo isn't a mother, she would have at least said so by now
Reasonable assumption but "pretty sure" is unwarranted from a forensics perspective.

. Also Horo is a goddess of harvest. Which ties in with fertility, which is associated with the Virgin image.
What? Now he's just making stuff up. Harvest goddesses and fertility goddesses have *lots* of sex in mythology. I can only assume he's reaching for that dysfunctional stapling on of the "Virgin Mary" to substitute for feminine goddesses that communities forced into Christianity often did. There's no functional connection there.

Also back then I'm pretty sure they had little to no contraceptives, so if she was having sex, it would be fair to say she would have kids by now.
There were contraceptive methods then - (e.g. condoms made from sheep's innards), there was also rhythm method (that part of the month women are infertile). But the failure is this --- ホロ is not human nor is she a regular wolf (which have very easily discerned fertile/infertile periods). She's a demi-goddess or at least a member of a very special species. So the writer's assumptions simply have no traction without more information.

But also because of Horo's own personalty has some thing to do with it. I think Horo is way to proud to be dominated by a man like that.

This fails to even make sense and assumes that sex is an inherently "dominating" activity rather than a mutually desirable affair. ホロ might want someone she trusts and can go eye-to-eye with but claiming she is "too proud to have sex" is just an instant fail assertion. In my view, this probably puts the writer in the category of people who have never been in a relationship that pontificate about relationships.
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Old 2009-09-01, 13:38   Link #150
BashZeStampeedo
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
But also because of Horo's own personalty has some thing to do with it. I think Horo is way to proud to be dominated by a man like that.
---
This fails to even make sense and assumes that sex is an inherently "dominating" activity rather than a mutually desirable affair.
Moreover, I'm pretty sure that Horo's the type that wouldn't mind being "dominated" once in a while

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Also Horo is a goddess of harvest. Which ties in with fertility, which is associated with the Virgin image.
---
What? Now he's just making stuff up.
I get the impression that some people mistake "virility" with "virginity". I wonder how many people have this impression? Shows just how backward our thinking has become, to think that a god(dess) of fertility/verility would be a virgin.
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Old 2009-09-01, 14:54   Link #151
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
"Also Horo is a goddess of harvest. Which ties in with fertility, which is associated with the Virgin image."
What? Now he's just making stuff up. Harvest goddesses and fertility goddesses have *lots* of sex in mythology. I can only assume he's reaching for that dysfunctional stapling on of the "Virgin Mary" to substitute for feminine goddesses that communities forced into Christianity often did. There's no functional connection there.
To me that simply sounds like wishful thinking, because an unmarried non-virgin character isn't as likeable as a virgin. Apart from everything you said, Holo also seems to have no problem whatsoever to allure and charm Lawrence or to make ambiguous statements and jokes (remember the poor boy in episode two). She seems quite open about it ^^
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Old 2009-09-01, 15:16   Link #152
BashZeStampeedo
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..an unmarried non-virgin character isn't as likeable as a virgin.
I know many, many people who would disagree with that (I'm one of them). Not everyone equates virginity with sexual allure. Still, it's fun to hypothesize why people might think that way, if you aren't one of them.

But if they are going after that demographic, then the choice of a sultry pagan deity with an obvious sex drive may not be the best/most accessible way to denote "virginity".
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Old 2009-09-02, 19:52   Link #153
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Horo's nakedness really draws attention at first.. at first I was thinking it was a hentai series. LOL!!
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Old 2009-09-03, 13:07   Link #154
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Horo's nakedness really draws attention at first.. at first I was thinking it was a hentai series. LOL!!
....that implies that you started with this show just because you were looking for naked Wolf-Girls doing impure things.
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Old 2009-09-03, 23:06   Link #155
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Yen Press when they first licensed Spice and Wolf, had written Horo as Ho"r"o, with an R.

But now it says Holo on the site.

ACK!

Guys, we must act quickly before the books are finalized and printed for shipment. We must keep Horo's name correct, as HO"R"O! lol

-Matt

PS. ALSO, we need to insist that they not change Nora to Nola.

Horo and Nora are perfect names, and I feel changing them could pottentially hurt sales, considering a good sounding name can be a good step to becoming succesful.

So who's up for an e-mail campaign to help make sure the english licensed novels keep the correct spelling? ^_^
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Old 2009-09-04, 00:18   Link #156
Vexx
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Too late.... the japanese production company dictated the names. Someone on the Japan side is infatuated with "lo" versus "ro"....

As much as I'd like it to be "Horo", the publishing company in Japan seems determined to go with "Holo". That's why I just write ホロ anymore.... :P

Besides, it isn't "the correct spelling" ... the correct spelling is ホロ. Any english transcription is only an approximation of the sounds. Advanced Hepburn or whatever you use - "lo" and "ro" neither completely matches the "l/d/r" sound of that character "ロ". Every textbook I have uses "ro" for that sound but older textbooks and some variants are known to use "lo" ... and someone who makes decisions seems to have learned it that way or simply thinks the letter "l" looks cooler than the letter "r".

I suppose its a few points that they are using the German spelling of Lawrence's name "Kraft"
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Old 2009-09-04, 00:38   Link #157
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How do you know for sure that the Japanese company is dictating the names and it wasn't an open decision for Yen Press to make? O_o

-Matt
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Old 2009-09-04, 01:35   Link #158
Vexx
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Most translated adaptations have to undergo approval by their japanese licensors, especially the names.

By all means, write to Yen and plead the case for "Horo". I've already written a while back and ask that Yen Press research it and push back at their licensors. However, I have a sneaking suspicion the very reason we saw ホロ's signed name (as Holo) a few episodes ago is that the japanese production has heard the pushback from the American fans and basically settled the matter visually in their eyes.

Hey, I even took her name (in the light novels) to a few Japanese instructors I know and they were like, "of course it should be "ro" that's the official romaji for that character". They also intuitively made the connection to the Ainu word for wolf. I'm just sensing some older stubborn guy at the other end of this decision

No one has been able to find a European source for the name (unlike Chloe or Lawrence, etc) and so far the author has been silent on the matter.

Either way, if you're pronouncing it properly, "Horo" or "Holo" will sound exactly the same.

edit: Now this is the first I've heard of them writing "Nora" as "Nola" ... if so, that's definitely offbase as there's clearly a European name spelled "Nora". Blergh... another reason to learn Japanese and blow off the translations, eh?

I don't see anything on the Yen Press site speaking of Nora (Nola). Got a link?

Last edited by Vexx; 2009-09-04 at 01:46.
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Old 2009-09-04, 22:38   Link #159
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I guess the question is if anyone here would be able to read the translated novels with Horo's name being put in as Holo? I just don't get why they were so firm on sticking with Holo. If people have sent in mail then they should know how people feel about that spelling. You'd think they'd want fans of the series to buy the novel. I just find it sad that we have the novels coming out and the most important character's name is done wrong. It may not technically be wrong but it feels wrong.

I'll send a message even though no one there will give a damn.

Anyways back to good Horo discussion. You have to appreciate how much Horo enjoyed that meal in episode 9. There was barely anything left .
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Old 2009-09-04, 23:27   Link #160
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Anyways back to good Horo discussion. You have to appreciate how much Horo enjoyed that meal in episode 9. There was barely anything left .
I'm more interested in knowing how she got such a meal out of Lawrence? It clearly can't have been cheap, and I doubt she would have paid for it herself She's more impressive than Fuu from Samurai Champloo..
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