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View Poll Results: Should Sasuke revive the clan?
Yes, who cares about brothers and friends? Eternal MS! They should return to their old ways! 10 12.35%
Yes, but Sasuke should change the Uchiha Clan and hide its secret to protect future generations 28 34.57%
Yes, it should be just as it was before they were slaughtered 7 8.64%
At first i thought he definitely should but now I'm not sure 4 4.94%
No! This clan is forever tainted, they have to die or the bloodfest would return eventually 32 39.51%
Voters: 81. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2008-02-09, 22:42   Link #41
madra uchiha xyx
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
It was a popular thing among the Uchiha during decades.
Madara and his brother were the first to have the MS but after he became the leader the Uchiha started their own version of the survival of the fittest, friends killing friends and siblings killing siblings in order to gain the Mangekyo.

And they didn't do this anymore at the time, it probably stopped after Madara's defeat. Itachi decided to renew with the past tradition, why do you think he killed Shuisui in secret and had the Uchiha from the Military Police Force on his back after this?
i was thinking maybe there is a way to gain a new sharingan by killing a clan member or sibling or possibley a gf (lover)
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Old 2008-02-10, 02:32   Link #42
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i was thinking maybe there is a way to gain a new sharingan by killing a clan member or sibling or possibley a gf (lover)
I don't know about killing any random clan member, but I'd guess that doesn't effect the Sharingan, since Itachi killed his entire clan with no change (he already had MS at that time). Killing your sibling might be a requirement for gaining the Eternal MS, but transplanting your siblings MS into your eye sockets is a definite requirement. In that regard, killing your sibling might negate the ability to transplant the eyes and receive the effects. As for killing a lover...no idea. It's never been brought up. Best friend and sibling, yes; lover, no.
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Old 2008-02-10, 03:09   Link #43
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I don't know about killing any random clan member, but I'd guess that doesn't effect the Sharingan, since Itachi killed his entire clan with no change (he already had MS at that time). Killing your sibling might be a requirement for gaining the Eternal MS, but transplanting your siblings MS into your eye sockets is a definite requirement. In that regard, killing your sibling might negate the ability to transplant the eyes and receive the effects. As for killing a lover...no idea. It's never been brought up. Best friend and sibling, yes; lover, no.
I do not think that we do not know for certain that a sibling is needed so much as another MS user so you can replace your eyes with theirs.
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Old 2008-02-10, 07:05   Link #44
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Actually as far as we know killing and stealing the eyes of your sibling is a necessity to obtain a permanent MS whereas the required Sharingan level of said sibling is unknown.
Itachi didn't think Sasuke was ready pre-timeskip but he seems to have changed his mind now.
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Old 2008-02-10, 13:18   Link #45
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There is no such thing as a pure-blooded Uchiha as if they had relations with their bethren that is just gross so from the beginning they married other people and created Uchiha's, so what Sasuke needs to do is burn the Uchiha's past using Katon no jutsu marry someone (I'm voting Ino) and then he could have more sharingan babies with mind control, anyway not every Hyuuga got the byakugan it was only the main and branch families, rememeber genes are stronger in one child than another which is why Sasuke's sharingan can surpass Itachi's and you both parents to be Uchiha's it could be an outsider, just one of the parents has to be an Uchiha to give birth to a sharingan user also if Ino and Sasuke do get married then the Uchiha's will be even more powerful because they would be able to do mind swaps and can use sharingan and he could create the Uchiha's personal sharingan-only ANBU that assassinate corrupt Uchiha's to avoid the destruction of the clan.

Now there is just one question: Can female Uchiha's use sharingan? And I doubt Madara and Itachi killed everyone because I don't think everyone will be at home, some might have stayed away from Konoha when they heard about the Uchiha Masscre because they were the polic force so some might of been on missions. I would like to see a blond Uchiha with Ino's eyes but when she uses the sharingan pupils appear and her eyes slowly turn red with tomoes appearing
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Old 2008-02-10, 14:26   Link #46
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Actually as far as we know killing and stealing the eyes of your sibling is a necessity to obtain a permanent MS whereas the required Sharingan level of said sibling is unknown.
Itachi didn't think Sasuke was ready pre-timeskip but he seems to have changed his mind now.
We only have one instance of the creation of an Eternal MS. You can not base an entire argument on one example. Simply because Madara took this route, does not make it the only route. Even if Madara came right out and said that this was the only way, he is a known liar and manipulator, and all we need to disprove Madara's assumptions of the Sharingan is to look at Kakashi. He attained the MS and for all we know, if given more time and the incentive, he could attain the Eternal MS. (I don't believe that Kakashi could actually attain the Eternal MS, but he is a good example of the fact that Madara does not know everything.)

---

In regards to HiroInazuma's post, I sure as hell hope that female Uchiha's can use the Sharingan. If not, I am going to scream foul on Kishimoto and his editors My indignation aside, I do not think we have ever seen a female Sharingan user, nor a female police officer (becuase that was the Uchiha's job in Konoha), so I dubt we can say for certain. We do know that the Hyuuga bloodline, which the Sharingan derived itself from hundreds of years ago, has both male and female practioneers. So, unless the Sharingan gene chnaged that much from the Hyuuga gene, I think it is a fair assumption that there were female Sharingan users.
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Old 2008-02-10, 15:33   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
Actually as far as we know killing and stealing the eyes of your sibling is a necessity to obtain a permanent MS whereas the required Sharingan level of said sibling is unknown.
Itachi didn't think Sasuke was ready pre-timeskip but he seems to have changed his mind now.
killing the sibling thing is not clear enough hunter as we saw itachi just tried to pluck sasukes eyes withoutkilling him and loosing eyes dont kill people...hell losing an arm even didnt kill the opponent...
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Old 2008-02-10, 15:43   Link #48
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killing the sibling thing is not clear enough hunter as we saw itachi just tried to pluck sasukes eyes withoutkilling him and loosing eyes dont kill people...hell losing an arm even didnt kill the opponent...
I agree that killing the sibling is not necessarily a requirement for obtaining the EMS, but what would be the point of leaving your sibling alive with no eyes? Other than pointing and laughing for a good long time, as they stumble around, there's really no reason to leave anyone who has no eyes alive. Ergo, while killing your sibling is not necessarily a requirement to obtain EMS, it's not a stretch to believe that killing them would follow the removal of their eyes.
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Old 2008-02-10, 16:12   Link #49
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I agree that killing the sibling is not necessarily a requirement for obtaining the EMS, but what would be the point of leaving your sibling alive with no eyes? Other than pointing and laughing for a good long time, as they stumble around, there's really no reason to leave anyone who has no eyes alive. Ergo, while killing your sibling is not necessarily a requirement to obtain EMS, it's not a stretch to believe that killing them would follow the removal of their eyes.
LOL are you trying to say that a man (or possibly woman) that just ripped out the eyes of their sibling (which I still say is not a mandatory component) would have the heart to actually put the poor eyeless bastard out of their misery. No, that is when you cackle incessantly , and then walk away. Pity and empathy are not Uchiha emotions .
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Old 2008-02-10, 16:18   Link #50
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LOL are you trying to say that a man (or possibly woman) that just ripped out the eyes of their sibling (which I still say is not a mandatory component) would have the heart to actually put the poor eyeless bastard out of their misery. No, that is when you cackle incessantly , and then walk away. Pity and empathy are not Uchiha emotions .
LOL, I guess that's also a possibility. Although, that resolution would only fuel the already ridiculous Uchiha emo-rage, of which I'm not a fan.

So if you don't think ripping out the eyes of your sibling to obtain EMS is a mandatory component, what do you consider it? Are there any components you would consider mandatory? I agree that you can't always base facts on only one example, but Madara is the only example we have to go on for now, and Itachi is following that path pretty directly so, I think for the time being, that can be considered fact; much in the same was that it was considered fact that MS could only be obtained by killing your best friend. That was only contradicted after Kakashi appeared in part 2 with his MS. Before that, it was an undisputed fact.
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Old 2008-02-10, 16:25   Link #51
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We only have one instance of the creation of an Eternal MS. You can not base an entire argument on one example.
"For decades, the Uchiha killed their friends to obtain the MS.. And their siblings to make it permanents!"
There isn't just one instance of this, after Madara did it the entire clan followed his example and kept doing so probably until Madara was out of the picture. Or so they thought.
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Old 2008-02-10, 17:05   Link #52
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"For decades, the Uchiha killed their friends to obtain the MS.. And their siblings to make it permanents!"
There isn't just one instance of this, after Madara did it the entire clan followed his example and kept doing so probably until Madara was out of the picture. Or so they thought.
But this information comes from a known liar and manipulator. You should consider this information as dubious at best: Madara could have started this rumour, or he could have altered the historical text to make it seem true (since no other Uchiha at the time Itachi killed his family possessed the MS or, conceivably knew of the MS, I think it is a fair assumption that Madara merely deluded Itachi into thinking that the Uchiha clan did these things), or Itachi or Madara could simply be lieing to Sasuke as they told him the dark Uchiha clan history, still trying to force him to kill his best friend.

Added to that, there is still the known discrepency of Kakashi. While I will acknowledge that Kakashi may have used a genjutsu to make himself think he killed his best friend, he did not commit the act himself (if he did...well I don't know what), the very fact that he has advanced his Sharingan to such a level implies that something else can be done and presumably, in Sasuke's case, will be done.

(That is, unless you are arguing that the tool called the Sharingan is seperate from the Uchiha blood. It could be that the Uchiha blood is so different from a regular shinobi that they can actively alter the Sharingan to the extent that they can only kill their friend and then kill their sibling to evolve the Sharingan. I doubt anyone would argue something this insane .)
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Old 2008-02-10, 17:31   Link #53
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Which is why I started my sentence by "as far as we know" considering there are still a few pieces of the puzzle missing.
But quite frankly I wouldn't call a "fair" assumption the theory that everything we learned is a lie which include I suppose the information on the scroll in the Uchiha secret meeting place.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:15   Link #54
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Which is why I started my sentence by "as far as we know" considering there are still a few pieces of the puzzle missing.
But quite frankly I wouldn't call a "fair" assumption the theory that everything we learned is a lie which include I suppose the information on the scroll in the Uchiha secret meeting place.
We, briefly, argued in the most current chapter thread, that Itachi is more or less controlled by Madara (well...I doubt either of us said 'controlled', but we both implied that he implicitly works for and under Madara). Anything Itachi says, then, comes directly from Madara. And we have seen that Madara and Itachi (as well as a plethora of other characters, Orochi-kun most significantly) believe that Sasuke's eyes are some how better (or at least have a greater potential) than every other Uchiha. So, it would not surprise me if Madara, through Itachi, is trying to gain control of Sasuke's eyes.

Added to that, Madara seems to take years to actually do anything (immortality gave him extreme patience), so I can't help but think it is safe to assume that Madara is trying to subtely and delibrately control Sasuke's actions to create a superior MS. To go further, couldn't it be that Madara and Itachi killed off the rest of the Uchiha clan so that they could keep information away from Sasuke that the members of the clan knew (I am not sure what they 'knew', maybe that Madara was an outcast that loved to kill Uchiha...who knows)?

We have talked about what happens if an Uchiha member kills their friend, and how this can result in the MS. But, maybe if an Uchiha member kills their direct sibling (i.e. immediate family), a different MS can be formed. True Itachi killed his mother and father, but that was after he gained the MS from killing a cousin, an distant relative. So, maybe killing an MS weilding immediate family member with a regular advanced three-tomoe eye can result in a superior MS. Honestly, this makes as much sense as anything else regarding the Sharingan .

I admit, I am essentially concocting a conspiracy theory, and there is never a lot of evidence to support a conspiracy theory. But, I can't help but feel that there is something else at work here.
___

To Quzor - My problem with the Eternal MS as Madara and now Itachi talk about it has to do with the fact that it seems so...random. Why does it have to be a brother? Why couldn't it be any MS user? In fact, wouldn't it make more sense if you could do it for any MS user. That would mean that there would be an active competition to get the "best" eyes. And what happens if you do not have a brother, Does that mean that if you do not gain the Eternal MS? It's just this one rule (needing a sibling) that bugs me. Replacing one MS with another to create a new magical MS called the Eternal MS, I am completely okay with .
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:24   Link #55
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To Quzor - My problem with the Eternal MS as Madara and now Itachi talk about it has to do with the fact that it seems so...random. Why does it have to be a brother? Why couldn't it be any MS user? In fact, wouldn't it make more sense if you could do it for any MS user. That would mean that there would be an active competition to get the "best" eyes. And what happens if you do not have a brother, Does that mean that if you do not gain the Eternal MS? It's just this one rule (needing a sibling) that bugs me. Replacing one MS with another to create a new magical MS called the Eternal MS, I am completely okay with .
I see what you're saying, but at the same time, I could ask, why a "best friend" for regular MS? Why not just a normal friend, or an enemy, for that matter? And all of this leads me to another question; why is Naruto considered Sasuke's best friend? Is it because that's how Naruto feels about the relationship? Sasuke has never acted like a best friend to Naruto...ever. He's never been there to talk to Naruto, never helped Naruto with anything, none of it. They were rivals for a while, then Sasuke left. If we're going by that standard, you could call Gai Kakashi's best friends, but Kakashi's best friend was Obito (I presume that's a fair assumption), so that's out the window. Anyway...

In regards to your EMS qualms; perhaps not everyone can gain MS. Perhaps, if you don't have a brother, you're just shit outta luck. Not everyone can gain MS, so why should those who can, automatically be allowed to gain EMS? Just because you can achieve one, doesn't automatically qualify you to attain the other. Not everyone can do it...that's part of what makes it so special.

I don't know for sure, I'm just spit-balling. I agree that it would make more sense to just replace your MS with another for EMS, but so much in the Narutoverse doesn't make sense, I'm willing to concede that, that just may not be the case.
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:40   Link #56
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I see what you're saying, but at the same time, I could ask, why a "best friend" for regular MS? Why not just a normal friend, or an enemy, for that matter? And all of this leads me to another question; why is Naruto considered Sasuke's best friend? Is it because that's how Naruto feels about the relationship? Sasuke has never acted like a best friend to Naruto...ever. He's never been there to talk to Naruto, never helped Naruto with anything, none of it. They were rivals for a while, then Sasuke left. If we're going by that standard, you could call Gai Kakashi's best friends, but Kakashi's best friend was Obito (I presume that's a fair assumption), so that's out the window. Anyway...

In regards to your EMS qualms; perhaps not everyone can gain MS. Perhaps, if you don't have a brother, you're just shit outta luck. Not everyone can gain MS, so why should those who can, automatically be allowed to gain EMS? Just because you can achieve one, doesn't automatically qualify you to attain the other. Not everyone can do it...that's part of what makes it so special.

I don't know for sure, I'm just spit-balling. I agree that it would make more sense to just replace your MS with another for EMS, but so much in the Narutoverse doesn't make sense, I'm willing to concede that, that just may not be the case.
No what you are saying makes sense.

If you imagine that it requires an extreme emotion (love or hate) to create the MS and EMS, then what you are saying is extremely accurate. Who would you have a closer emotional attachment to your best friend or a regular friend? After that, who would you have a greater emotional attachment to, your brother or your cousin? Presumably, in both cases, you would choose the best friend and the brother. But, if that is true, why do you need to kill the best friend first, why not just skip to the brother (ala Sasuke). Or better yet a lover. If you think you like your best friend or that you like your brother, your lover will easily dwarf them.

But, what you say makes sense and it isn't just "spit-balling" (God, it's been years since I heard that expression ).
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Old 2008-02-10, 18:46   Link #57
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No what you are saying makes sense.

If you imagine that it requires an extreme emotion (love or hate) to create the MS and EMS, then what you are saying is extremely accurate. Who would you have a closer emotional attachment to your best friend or a regular friend? After that, who would you have a greater emotional attachment to, your brother or your cousin? Presumably, in both cases, you would choose the best friend and the brother. But, if that is true, why do you need to kill the best friend first, why not just skip to the brother (ala Sasuke). Or better yet a lover. If you think you like your best friend or that you like your brother, your lover will easily dwarf them.

But, what you say makes sense and it isn't just "spit-balling" (God, it's been years since I heard that expression ).
The lover thing is something that keeps coming up, and I definitely think it's something that good for speculation. Just like the other two relationships, there is a chance that it wouldn't exist, which limits the possibility of exploiting it, the same as would not having a brother or best friend. Concurrently, your assertion is correct, in that it appears you must kill the people with whom you share strong bonds in order to advance your sharingan. Ergo, the lover argument makes sense, because who else would you share a stronger bond with?

In a twist, I can almost speculate an answer to that question; the person attempting to advance their sharingan is so in love with his or her self, that he/she cannot possibly love another person so strongly. Through this argument, one could argue that he has a stronger bond with his best friend because love is not a factor (MS), and I believe there's been more than one person who said "Blood is thicker than water," suggesting a stronger relationship with one's sibling (EMS) and cutting the lover out of the equation.

Lastly, I love the expression "spit-balling." I try to use it once a day, just to see if I can
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:07   Link #58
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The lover thing is something that keeps coming up, and I definitely think it's something that good for speculation. Just like the other two relationships, there is a chance that it wouldn't exist, which limits the possibility of exploiting it, the same as would not having a brother or best friend. Concurrently, your assertion is correct, in that it appears you must kill the people with whom you share strong bonds in order to advance your sharingan. Ergo, the lover argument makes sense, because who else would you share a stronger bond with?

In a twist, I can almost speculate an answer to that question; the person attempting to advance their sharingan is so in love with his or her self, that he/she cannot possibly love another person so strongly. Through this argument, one could argue that he has a stronger bond with his best friend because love is not a factor (MS), and I believe there's been more than one person who said "Blood is thicker than water," suggesting a stronger relationship with one's sibling (EMS) and cutting the lover out of the equation.

Lastly, I love the expression "spit-balling." I try to use it once a day, just to see if I can
Damn, if that is true, then there really is no hope for the Uchiha Clan.

Then again, maybe the lover option is how you evolve the Eternal MS?
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:12   Link #59
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Damn, if that is true, then there really is no hope for the Uchiha Clan.
Well, there could be hope, if everyone who had the Sharingan could avoid obsessing over advancing it, and just be happy with what they got (not likely).

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Then again, maybe the lover option is how you evolve the Eternal MS?
Ooh, an interesting theory. That's one that, if it was to be true, we probably wouldn't be able to confirm directly. Unless, of course, Kishi decides to throw another nice, long break into the story. Or, perhaps Karin will become Sasuke's lover, simply to prove his point that killing your lover can evolve the EMS. I don't see Kishi killing off any of the other women in the series for that purpose. Then again, I didn't see a lot of the things that were coming...so who knows.
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Old 2008-02-10, 19:37   Link #60
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Well, there could be hope, if everyone who had the Sharingan could avoid obsessing over advancing it, and just be happy with what they got (not likely).
Wow, I think you just summed up the human condition. That's it, Kishimoto designed Sasuke and his clan to be a reflection of the human condition, and our constant desire for more, when in reality we would be more content with what we allready have...atcuall that makes some sense.

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Ooh, an interesting theory. That's one that, if it was to be true, we probably wouldn't be able to confirm directly. Unless, of course, Kishi decides to throw another nice, long break into the story. Or, perhaps Karin will become Sasuke's lover, simply to prove his point that killing your lover can evolve the EMS. I don't see Kishi killing off any of the other women in the series for that purpose. Then again, I didn't see a lot of the things that were coming...so who knows.
Why does it have to be a women?...just kidding. If Sasuke can find a fanatical enough girl, I am sure they will willingly sacrifice their life for his Sharingan to advance. I can jus imagine a scene similiar to the scene from The Omen where Damien's (the son of the devil) nurse kills herself while, at the same time, saying "It's all for you, Damien!". Sasuke just needs a girl like that, suicidal and fanatical
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