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Old 2008-02-20, 04:55   Link #21
Khaos
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This is some speculation based on the meaning names of the characters. I don't know much japanese, so I may be missing something, feel free to correct me!
Some of the Kanji are read differently than normal.

Nakagami Shin'ichiro
仲 - relations, friendship
上 - up, above, the upper part
眞 - truth, purity
一 - one
郎 - man/husband

Isurugi Noe
石 - stone (actually read SEKI, ishi)
動 - to move (actually read DŌ, ugo)
乃 - (name kanji "no")
絵 - picture

Yuasa Hiromi
湯 - hot water
浅 - shallow
比 - comparison, contrast
呂 - (name kanji "ro")
美 - beauty (actually read bi)

Andō Aiko
安 - peace
藤 - (name kanji "dō")
愛 - love
子 - child

Interpretation:
So, Shin is the "one man" (everyting revolves around him) who can fly "up" to the sky, and for at least two of the girls, Ai and Hiromi he is the one for a "true pure relationship", compared to their relationships to Miyokichi and Jun.

Noe "moves the stone", meaning she is there to push Shin further in his developement, and Shin somehow is a stone. I don't really know, what "picture" means, perhaps that she really isn't the one to choose, since a picture is not real? On the other hand, "noe" sounds very much like "moe", maybe also a hint.

Hiromi..."hot shallow water"...this sounds like a danger of getting burned and implies that there isn't much depth in her. However, "compared" to the others she is a real "beauty". I can't make more of this.

Ai..."peace", "love", "child", can it be said any clearer?

If the meaning of the names really matters in the show, and after there IS a meaning, I do believe it matters, then I can't imagine anyone besides Ai to get Shin in the end.

EDIT:
Ok, "hot shallow water" could also be associated with a hot spring...whatever that would mean in reference to a person.

Last edited by Khaos; 2008-02-20 at 07:59.
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Old 2008-02-20, 18:58   Link #22
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Ok so I'm about 99% sure that Ai-chan is not going to end up with Shin...I think she's def going to "settle for less" and give her current bf (Nobuse??) a real shot.

If this is the case I'll be pretty bummed cause I want Shin to freaking open his eyes and go for Aiko!
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Old 2008-02-21, 01:09   Link #23
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Ok so I'm about 99% sure that Ai-chan is not going to end up with Shin...I think she's def going to "settle for less" and give her current bf (Nobuse??) a real shot.

If this is the case I'll be pretty bummed cause I want Shin to freaking open his eyes and go for Aiko!
well, that is consensus from the majority of people, even the Aiko fans. Even with her kiss and her chances increasing due to it, it won't be enough. Aiko doesn't get enough screentime, she is just a plot device to move the story. Even though she is shown as the three rivals in the opening, don't let it fool you.
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Old 2008-02-21, 02:55   Link #24
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Yeah...we all know that it will be Hiromi, right?
But still, this isn't a typical romance series, so we shouldn't be too sure, if the rules of Clannad & co also apply to True Tears.
It is somehow clear, that it won't be Noe, but for the rest...let's just hope for the 1%.
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Old 2008-02-21, 03:01   Link #25
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Originally Posted by Khaos View Post
...
I can't imagine anyone besides Ai to get Shin in the end...
we all know that it will be Hiromi, right?...
It is somehow clear, that it won't be Noe...
Alright, if any of that was the truth, I'd be dropping this series
Have you ever wondered about the lack of choice for the girls in this kind of show? One Shinichiro is boring, duh, there should be like a few more kind & handsome dudes ( not rly like Jun ) so that he could experience what jealousy is like, and learn to appreciate the girls more.
I still don't understand why Noe has to fight over this guy, anybody? She'll go to college, meet sb who'd treat her much better blah blah blah... Screw Shinichiro if he dumps her.
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Last edited by greyhawk; 2008-02-21 at 03:12.
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Old 2008-02-21, 04:15   Link #26
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Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
Alright, if any of that was the truth, I'd be dropping this series
Have you ever wondered about the lack of choice for the girls in this kind of show? One Shinichiro is boring, duh, there should be like a few more kind & handsome dudes ( not rly like Jun ) so that he could experience what jealousy is like, and learn to appreciate the girls more.
I still don't understand why Noe has to fight over this guy, anybody? She'll go to college, meet sb who'd treat her much better blah blah blah... Screw Shinichiro if he dumps her.
Don't cite my contradictions so close together!
That's the problem with the series, the question which girl you prefer change with every episode.

Girls have always a lack of choice, since normal romantic anime is made for guys. However I'm sure there exist enough anime/manga with one girl having to choose among a harem of guys. I don't know, how many girls watch animes like True Tears or Clannad, but I'm sure their number is far greater than the number of guys watching animes with one girl having to choose among the guys. I think the average male anime viewer can't stand this kind of show, what if the guy he identifies himself with isn't choosen?

And Noe, for me this looks like a teenage crush, like a first experience, which will be soon over.
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Old 2008-02-21, 04:20   Link #27
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Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
Alright, if any of that was the truth, I'd be dropping this series
Have you ever wondered about the lack of choice for the girls in this kind of show? One Shinichiro is boring, duh, there should be like a few more kind & handsome dudes ( not rly like Jun ) so that he could experience what jealousy is like, and learn to appreciate the girls more.
I still don't understand why Noe has to fight over this guy, anybody? She'll go to college, meet sb who'd treat her much better blah blah blah... Screw Shinichiro if he dumps her.
If Aiko ends with Shin, this will be the biggest upset in anime history, even bigger than "canvas2".

Last edited by golthin; 2008-02-21 at 07:55.
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Old 2008-02-21, 04:34   Link #28
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If Aiko ends with Shin, this will be the biggest upset in anime story, even bigger than "canvas2".
And the show would be all the better for it. But i only think that because i prefer aiko.

Also, does anyone other than me think that the next few eps will have hiromi getting insanely jealous over shin and noe/aiko to the point she'll run off and do something really stupid, like go down on jun? It just seems fairly likely to me.
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Old 2008-02-21, 04:51   Link #29
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And the show would be all the better for it. But i only think that because i prefer aiko.

Also, does anyone other than me think that the next few eps will have hiromi getting insanely jealous over shin and noe/aiko to the point she'll run off and do something really stupid, like go down on jun? It just seems fairly likely to me.
Yeah, then there will be some kind of TV show like "Anime gone wild"
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Old 2008-02-21, 07:42   Link #30
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Originally Posted by greyhawk View Post
Alright, if any of that was the truth, I'd be dropping this series
Have you ever wondered about the lack of choice for the girls in this kind of show? One Shinichiro is boring, duh, there should be like a few more kind & handsome dudes ( not rly like Jun ) so that he could experience what jealousy is like, and learn to appreciate the girls more.
I still don't understand why Noe has to fight over this guy, anybody? She'll go to college, meet sb who'd treat her much better blah blah blah... Screw Shinichiro if he dumps her.
You're looking the wrong genre, though this series has pretty glaring elements of jealousy in it for plenty of the characters. Nobuse, Shin, Hiromi, have all been shown to become jealous (or what I'd call jealous) over Aiko/Shin, Jun/Hiromi, Shin/Everything respectively, and then theirs also Shin's mother. Now that's just pure jealousy.

Noe fights over Shin because it the first person to help her break from her dream reality. Which is what Jun seems to be hoping for, to help her grow up. So... ya.

EDIT: Totally forgot about Aiko too, she's got jealousy too. Every character has basically shown jealousy and has acted under its effects.
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Old 2008-02-21, 10:22   Link #31
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You're looking the wrong genre
Ye, I always knew it was wishful thinkingTrue Tears belongs to the "male harem" genre, doesn't it? But technically speaking, there's no such genre
A drama/romance film can always have more than 1 male lead. The trend's become so typical that you can almost call it a genre, but it's not.
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Nobuse, Shin, Hiromi, have all been shown to become jealous (or what I'd call jealous) over Aiko/Shin, Jun/Hiromi, Shin/Everything respectively, and then theirs also Shin's mother. Now that's just pure jealousy.

Noe fights over Shin because it the first person to help her break from her dream reality. Which is what Jun seems to be hoping for, to help her grow up. So... ya.

EDIT: Totally forgot about Aiko too, she's got jealousy too. Every character has basically shown jealousy and has acted under its effects.
Darn, you misunderstood me Well I was just talking about Shinichiro. In Jun/Hiromi case, he finds it annoying not because Hiromi likes the guy but rather he thinks that way, plus all the girls are crazy about him, and Hiromi will eventually be back by his side anyway. There's not much competition going on, so this dude spends most time thinking about Hiromi while taking Aiko and Noe for granted (at least I think so), which is very stupid of him. We need some sort of rivalry, some other capable male leads to even the odds and teach this kid a lesson or two on how you should treat a girl.
It just ain't gonna happen, right? (At least in most series I know). Not to mention it would seriously degrade the whole show, so let's just stop talking about the impossible...
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Last edited by greyhawk; 2008-02-21 at 10:36.
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Old 2008-02-21, 12:02   Link #32
Var
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Ye, I always knew it was wishful thinkingTrue Tears belongs to the "male harem" genre, doesn't it? But technically speaking, there's no such genre
A drama/romance film can always have more than 1 male lead. The trend's become so typical that you can almost call it a genre, but it's not.
I suppose you can't exactly call it a genre, but its a specific subset of a genre. So, let me reword it and say you're watching the wrong subset of this genre. Heh.

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Darn, you misunderstood me Well I was just talking about Shinichiro. In Jun/Hiromi case, he finds it annoying not because Hiromi likes the guy but rather he thinks that way, plus all the girls are crazy about him, and Hiromi will eventually be back by his side anyway. There's not much competition going on, so this dude spends most time thinking about Hiromi while taking Aiko and Noe for granted (at least I think so), which is very stupid of him. We need some sort of rivalry, some other capable male leads to even the odds and teach this kid a lesson or two on how you should treat a girl.
It just ain't gonna happen, right? (At least in most series I know). Not to mention it would seriously degrade the whole show, so let's just stop talking about the impossible...
I don't know if he finds it annoying or if he's jealous, he acts jealous at times so I do not see why we can't call it jealousy. I'm certain he was feeling it prior to the whole confesion from Hiromi.

There's competition, Shin was (prior to confession) trying to win Hiromi. Though now he's with Noe, the only who's really been taken for granted is Aiko. Which is, if things develop correctly, around whom a rivalry could occur but their's really no time for that, in my opinion.
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Old 2008-02-21, 13:40   Link #33
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To say the least... Shinichiro is going to have one hell of a time trying to sort out his emotions... lol
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Old 2008-02-21, 15:03   Link #34
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To say the least... Shinichiro is going to have one hell of a time trying to sort out his emotions... lol
True, but in the end he has to settle for 1 out of the 3 beautiful girls... such horrid luck

I personally root for Noe, her mindset is just too interesting!
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Old 2008-02-21, 15:04   Link #35
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To say the least... Shinichiro is going to have one hell of a time trying to sort out his emotions... lol
The fun thing is that he has to do it ALONE! No Aiko to help him anymore!
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Old 2008-02-21, 15:18   Link #36
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Although it seems, according to normal plot patterns, that Noe is peaking too early, this show can do a lot in six episodes: the two can have ups and downs and still end up together.

Back in ep1, there are several indications that Noe is very special. When he first sees her, she is the angel up in a tree, with uniquely dramatic music and the sun shining from behind her. Then there is his iconic statement, when she is up on seawall: "Isurugi Noe's tears." And finally, we fade to a watercolor still that again makes Noe an icon, grand against the sky.

And there is also that vision of Noe, before he ever met her, from a point of view up in a tree. This shows some special spiritual connection between them. Perhaps we will see more of this supernatural element in the rest of the show.

Although in ep7 he is to some extent trying to convince himself he loves Noe, I think he really does. He may not love her as much as he does Hiromi, but she has wormed her way into his heart. In ep3, after he has been shocked to see her getting on a strange boy's bike, he finds himself sighing as he walks toward Ai's place, and angrily asks himself what he's sighing for. His love for Hiromi is a settled and pleasant habit. His love for Noe is growing despite the way she disturbs him, and despite his embarrassment at her antics. And she has a better effect on him. Hiromi drives him to angst and stupidity. Noe helps him fly.

Certainly, we could end up with a Hiromi end, and Noe could just be the angel who takes her tears -- and is then able to cry herself. And perhaps I'm just playing favorites. But to me Shin continues to have the deepest interactions with Noe, weird as they are, and is most likely to end up with her at the end.

I should add that the six remaining episodes make me think that Ai is also at least possible. Lots can happen, and there is no doubt in my mind that Ai would be the best, easiest, most productive, partner for Shin. It would be an upset, but they have lots of time to make it more reasonable than Canvas2, which pulled the rabbit out of the hat in the last part of the last episode (despite covert hints before that). I still think Ai is the least likely of the three, but if she now starts to appear in his dreams/visions, as the other two already have, we will know she has a real chance.

By the way, another good point from golthin, about Shin having to face his new quandary alone.
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Old 2008-02-21, 19:35   Link #37
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Hiromi drives him to angst and stupidity. Noe helps him fly.
That only shows how much he loves her. He would'nt be so bothered if his feelings for her were that weak. As for the angst, Shin's mother probably deserves most of the blame. She's the one who actually created this distance between Shin and Hiromi, making them both miserable as a result.

They got along well when they were younger but things changed once she moved into his house in the past year and we now know it was because of what Shin's mother told her.

Shin's own words in episode 1 at 11:50 regarding her change.
"I've always been in the same class as her since elementary school. I was really surprised. She was always so cheerful. I loved her smile. I loved her smile..."

It does look like things could be developing to the point that Shin's mother is no longer an obstacle. It appears more likely with each episode that what she said was a lie although she probably has her own reason for hating Hiromi's mother.

Noe sees the potential in Shin to fly. He's not flying yet. Right now he's just as grounded as Hiromi is by his inability to go after what he really wants. I think Noe will wonder why Shin is'nt flying and reaching for the sky when she feels that he is capable of doing so. She may come to the realization that the only way for Shin to fly is to be with Hiromi.
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Old 2008-02-21, 19:49   Link #38
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Does anyone else see Shin moving to a monastery to spend some time in seclusion?

Think about the pressure this guy is facing;, he's got a thing for a girl who may, or may not be his sister, he's agreed to date this odd girl who can't cry and has a thing for chickens, and to top it off his best friends GF comes and plants a kiss on him out of nowhere.

Whew.
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Old 2008-02-21, 21:59   Link #39
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.... I think Noe will wonder why Shin isn't flying and reaching for the sky when she feels that he is capable of doing so. She may come to the realization that the only way for Shin to fly is to be with Hiromi.
Good point. Highly possible. Although I do think he is already flying. That's what Noe said when he gave her the tissue-box chicken, I believe. And things like his speaking up to his mother and asking Noe to keep away both showed him having a little more independence. Even confessing to Noe was a big flight, whether it was the deal that caused it or not.

Could you explain why you think it is becoming more likely that the sibling thing isn't true? As far as I can see, it is still just as possible as it always was, but maybe I'm missing something. The things that make it possible are the fact that the Shinmother was surprised Hiromi didn't remember the conversation; and the fact that Hiromi used words that could be construed as meaning "may be" rather than "is." But Hiromi seems to have believed it enough to (a) steer clear of Shin for the whole year, and (2) tell him about it, even though she likes him. The writers may be leaving us uncertain in order to sustain the doubt and tension that help make this show so fascinating.

I should add that the abortive overtures of Shinfather to Shin and Shinmother to Hiromi do indicate that there is more info of some kind to pass on, maybe that yes, he and Hiromi's mother had an affair, but no, it is not likely that Hiromi is their child. But the info could also just be apologizing for (a) keeping it from Shin and (b) causing Hiromi unnecessary pain. I continue to doubt that Shinmother would have made up something so shameful for the family, and for her.

And I certainly agree that the effect Hiromi has on him is because of how strongly he feels about her. That doesn't change the fact that it is so far making his life worse instead of better. I didn't mean he didn't love her and might not end up with her, just that they were so far not helping each other much.

I think Shin would be well advised to at least take a vow of silence for a while, even if he can't get into a monastery.
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Old 2008-02-22, 03:20   Link #40
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Although it seems, according to normal plot patterns, that Noe is peaking too early, this show can do a lot in six episodes: the two can have ups and downs and still end up together.

Back in ep1, there are several indications that Noe is very special. When he first sees her, she is the angel up in a tree, with uniquely dramatic music and the sun shining from behind her. Then there is his iconic statement, when she is up on seawall: "Isurugi Noe's tears." And finally, we fade to a watercolor still that again makes Noe an icon, grand against the sky.
One problem with this image is that, while it may seem positive in its angelic apperance, things that are usually portrayed in such a way are meant to be 'beyond reach' or simply 'unreachable'. For instance, Noe had to jump down to Shin, he did not climb up. Alot of what was portrayed in the earlier episodes is now void as it has faded away. She began the show as someone beyond the regular teenager, but as the show progresses we see her returning to her more human routes. E.g. she is begining to feel things she's never felt before and she's losing her innocence.

Quote:
And there is also that vision of Noe, before he ever met her, from a point of view up in a tree. This shows some special spiritual connection between them. Perhaps we will see more of this supernatural element in the rest of the show.
This again shows her as an angelic figure. The spiritual connection this shows isn't romantic, its more an encouraging one. She's higher than him, he has to go up. However, as we saw, he didn't go up, she came down.

Quote:
Although in ep7 he is to some extent trying to convince himself he loves Noe, I think he really does. He may not love her as much as he does Hiromi, but she has wormed her way into his heart. In ep3, after he has been shocked to see her getting on a strange boy's bike, he finds himself sighing as he walks toward Ai's place, and angrily asks himself what he's sighing for. His love for Hiromi is a settled and pleasant habit. His love for Noe is growing despite the way she disturbs him, and despite his embarrassment at her antics. And she has a better effect on him. Hiromi drives him to angst and stupidity. Noe helps him fly.
More of episode seven shows that he really has little romantic attachment to Noe than it shows that he does. He says it himself, 'Noe likes me, Jun likes Hiromi, and I like Hiromi' or something along those lines. If he were truly trying to say he liked Noe he would have said it. All that we see from him is either Hiromi-thoughts or doubt.

Its pretty obvious what he's sighing for, he's confused and uncertain of what his heart/head are doing. His heart points at Hiromi but his morals stop that, then he goes to Noe but then his heart isn't sure. He's caught between a rock and a hard place at the moment with his emotions and 'good boy' mind set.

You mentioned something as a boon but it seems more as a detriment. Noe's ignorant/childish mind set, while cute and nice to get someone's attention, falls short when things become far more serious, such as dating. And yes Noe helps him fly, just like the beneficial angel would from the allusions in the first few episodes. But once that person learns to fly, the angel is no longer needed. Again, returning to your own point and seeing it in a negative light.

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Certainly, we could end up with a Hiromi end, and Noe could just be the angel who takes her tears -- and is then able to cry herself. And perhaps I'm just playing favorites. But to me Shin continues to have the deepest interactions with Noe, weird as they are, and is most likely to end up with her at the end.
The deepest interaction isn't with Noe. That's just the most shown interaction. The deepest is somewhere within Shin and Hiromi, and Shin and Ai. While the latter was not romantic, Ai was his pillar of support. As we saw from Ep.7, when he's confused and uncertain of what he's truly doing, the first person he goes to see is Ai. In normal situations with teens its usually not a guy going to girl or the reverse, its a guy going to a guy, or girl to a girl (or siblings for either -> see Jun and Noe). So while it is not directly shown its pretty heavily implied. The hiromi interaction is also pretty obvious as she is the one who's been driving him for most of the show (I'd argue alot more than Noe).

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I should add that the six remaining episodes make me think that Ai is also at least possible. Lots can happen, and there is no doubt in my mind that Ai would be the best, easiest, most productive, partner for Shin. It would be an upset, but they have lots of time to make it more reasonable than Canvas2, which pulled the rabbit out of the hat in the last part of the last episode (despite covert hints before that). I still think Ai is the least likely of the three, but if she now starts to appear in his dreams/visions, as the other two already have, we will know she has a real chance.
Ai went from impossible to possible at the end of seven, and was probably the last/best moment possible for the change. Prior to seven there was no chance, she would never have acted without something to truly urge her forward. And I'd no longer call anything canvas2, episode seven (and before it) foreshadowed that something would happen between Ai and Shin, so when it did happen it was not 'out of the blue' but concretely alluded to in previous episodes. I do not expect to see much of Ai in his dreams, she is neither the angelic noe nor the elusive/secluded Hiromi. The other two girls appear because they have reason to be there, Noe is inspirational in a positive light while Hiromi is a worry/mystery to Shin which he wishes to solve/understand.
Given that, now with the kiss, he may be just as confused about Ai but with her last line I don't think there's much for him to need to figure out. She's telling him to look at her, to acknowledge her as a woman and someone who cares for him in more than simple friendly ways.

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By the way, another good point from golthin, about Shin having to face his new quandary alone.
This is a good point and actually can be spun to give Ai a pretty significant boost, though in ways it can be spun in the reverse. He also has Nobuse who I think will, if he keeps true to his words, assist Shin towards Ai. However, I do doubt that he will as he is too obsessed with Ai and I think he may become even more of a secondary character but still with significant effects on the plot.

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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Good point. Highly possible. Although I do think he is already flying. That's what Noe said when he gave her the tissue-box chicken, I believe. And things like his speaking up to his mother and asking Noe to keep away both showed him having a little more independence. Even confessing to Noe was a big flight, whether it was the deal that caused it or not.
He's still grounded. You cannot fly if your heart and mind are disjointed and you don't know what the hell is going on. I'd say he was flying at one point, maybe in the middle of the 1-7 run so far, but then he just fell thanks to Hiromi's confession.

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Could you explain why you think it is becoming more likely that the sibling thing isn't true? As far as I can see, it is still just as possible as it always was, but maybe I'm missing something. The things that make it possible are the fact that the Shinmother was surprised Hiromi didn't remember the conversation; and the fact that Hiromi used words that could be construed as meaning "may be" rather than "is." But Hiromi seems to have believed it enough to (a) steer clear of Shin for the whole year, and (2) tell him about it, even though she likes him. The writers may be leaving us uncertain in order to sustain the doubt and tension that help make this show so fascinating.
People tend to see the mother's attempts to talk with Hiromi as an attempt to rectify a lie or some misunderstanding. However, I still cannot think of a reason for Shin's mom to make up that large of a lie. That's just going a bit to far out of spite/jealousy, especially since she gains little from it. She can stop Shin and Hiromi from dating in far easier ways if that was her true intention.

To be honest, Hiromi is an indecisive fool/downright stupid at times. She is unable to admit to anything nor does she ever display a backbone, hell she rarely even expresses free will. She's either lieing, getting swept up in the flow (started from her lines) or being submissive.

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I should add that the abortive overtures of Shinfather to Shin and Shinmother to Hiromi do indicate that there is more info of some kind to pass on, maybe that yes, he and Hiromi's mother had an affair, but no, it is not likely that Hiromi is their child. But the info could also just be apologizing for (a) keeping it from Shin and (b) causing Hiromi unnecessary pain. I continue to doubt that Shinmother would have made up something so shameful for the family, and for her.
The father at times act's too innocent to be guilty of adultery, but then at other times he does not. When he asks shin what was the matter, he seemed to have caught onto something but due to how vague the question was it cannot be given to any specific side. Also, when he says 'She's our daughter now too' or similar it can be spun in either direction. It can be seen as kindly and genuinely innocent of any other meaning but it can also be reverse. He could be saying it in a way that means, 'She's officially our daughter now too'. In which he is admiting to his sins but also making it seem duitiful that they cannot simply discard the child. Also, I found it interesting that she came to live with them and not any other relative (I do not believe it has been said that her family had no living relatives). I tend to see that as a further boost to the idea that she is the result of some adultery.

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And I certainly agree that the effect Hiromi has on him is because of how strongly he feels about her. That doesn't change the fact that it is so far making his life worse instead of better. I didn't mean he didn't love her and might not end up with her, just that they were so far not helping each other much.

I think Shin would be well advised to at least take a vow of silence for a while, even if he can't get into a monastery.
Opposite spectrums to test the 'hero'. Trials and tribulations are common themes in many stories and are usually embodied by two or more characters. Noe is the progressive trial while Hiromi is more the tribulations and pitfalls. And again, Ai falls somewhere in the middle. Pitfalls present with a progressive/supporting presence.
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