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Old 2009-09-29, 05:17   Link #141
naruto8001360
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sorry i thought u meant sth else
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Old 2009-10-01, 16:58   Link #142
calorie
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There must be ones that I liked more but this one "cool moment" I cannot get out of my head right now - Riful's first intervention in order to save her husband (it's late and I can't remember that dumbass' name either) from Clare and Jean when her arm awakened insinuating the superior fully awakened form she must have.
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Old 2009-10-01, 17:19   Link #143
Ryus
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Originally Posted by bsla View Post
There must be ones that I liked more but this one "cool moment" I cannot get out of my head right now - Riful's first intervention in order to save her husband (it's late and I can't remember that dumbass' name either) from Clare and Jean when her arm awakened insinuating the superior fully awakened form she must have.
Do you mean this moment?



Oh, I love the way you worded that "when her arm awakened insinuating the... ...awakened form she must have."
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Old 2009-10-02, 00:17   Link #144
calorie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryus View Post
Do you mean this moment?



Oh, I love the way you worded that "when her arm awakened insinuating the... ...awakened form she must have."
That's the one.

Rather than going on about how her "power level is over 9000", claymores could confirm their Youki readings with their own eyes. That arm-body contrast is too cool.
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Old 2009-10-04, 09:10   Link #145
klare
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there are many good scenes i like, but this one early in the story is my favourite:

when Terassa cried and hugged the little long-haired Clare

reason is i think i feel my eyes wet at that moment
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Old 2009-10-04, 11:48   Link #146
romari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
there are many good scenes i like, but this one early in the story is my favourite:

when Terassa cried and hugged the little long-haired Clare

reason is i think i feel my eyes wet at that moment
That's everybody's favorite
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Old 2009-10-05, 21:08   Link #147
Ryuken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klare View Post
there are many good scenes i like, but this one early in the story is my favourite:

when Terassa cried and hugged the little long-haired Clare

reason is i think i feel my eyes wet at that moment
Well, I just cried thinking about it.
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Old 2009-11-26, 04:47   Link #148
Altima
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The scene that let me know right away that I would like Claymore was when Raki chased Clare in episode 1 and she pulled her sword out at him almost beheading him. It was just an intense scene.

The scene in episode 5 where Teresa said she would entertain the bandits until each of them had their fill was entertaining.
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Old 2009-11-26, 05:58   Link #149
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Wow, what's up with everyone mentioning the scene where Teresa realised Clare was trying to comfort her, but noone says anything about the scene where Raki saved Clare?

Seriously guys, this male child hate is really disturbing. Children are children. Please solve your issues.
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Old 2009-11-26, 13:33   Link #150
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to me, raki looks more like a teenager, not a child. Teenagers are young adults and (male ones) "shouldn't" be crying like a baby-child anymore...

fear is fine.... heck, i'd be pisin down my leg if claymore manga/anime was real....

but not crying.....
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Old 2009-11-26, 15:21   Link #151
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He is clearly a child.

Many male fans probably cried while watching a cartoon... And Raki isn't allowed to cry when people he cares about die or are placed in extreme danger?

People don't have a problem because he has a weak mind. He actually has a much stronger mind than most modern real grown up men (who like you say would shit their pants). People have a problem because there is some social rule against males showing affection. IMO not only is that a pretty damn lame prehistoric social rule to begin with which should be shrugged off entirely by healthy people, Raki is a child and in any case it shouldn't even apply to him in the first place.
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Old 2009-11-26, 22:10   Link #152
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yes, "macho" image.

Crying (especially) and emotions in general is "seen" as weakness in males. the social image of males is that they aren't to be emotional.
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Old 2009-11-27, 03:50   Link #153
Ryus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Wow, what's up with everyone mentioning the scene where Teresa realised Clare was trying to comfort her, but noone says anything about the scene where Raki saved Clare?

Seriously guys, this male child hate is really disturbing. Children are children. Please solve your issues.


They don't compare, at all. Plus it has nothing to do with "our issues." If you kidding, it's a bad and unclear joke. If your serious then I got to say your failing to recognize the significance of what Teresa realizing Clare was comforting her lead to and how Raki saving Clare didn't lead to anything that wasn't already there.

Raki risking his life to save Clare when he had no chance to really make a difference was nice but it's been done a thousand times, I've lost count how many times Clare has done just that to save others and she's done it to save total strangers. True, it speaks volumes of Raki but it's hardly the most moving moment of the series or Raki in the series, in fact Raki telling Isley he needed power to make another person not worry about him and if possible save them was a far better moment. Since it showed Raki's commitment to saving Clare knowing how far out classed he was by the "monsters" of the world, especially after having Ophelia show him just how weak he really was.

Raki charging in to save Clare not making anyone's "favorite scene", and the Teresa and Clare hug making many people's lists, has nothing to do with our hate of Raki or anything like that... it has to do with the dynamics of how the scene changed Teresa and Clare for the better (though for Clare it was a set up for a greater tragedy). When Clare and Raki where separated before anything could develop with them and other event's, like Ophelia playing with the two of them, diluted the moment. Sure they kissed... but that was more Clare trying to get Raki to listen and do as she told him then a direct effect of Raki risking his live to save her. In short it was a great moment but it failed to lead to anything besides +50 chapters of us waiting for them to reunite.

The Teresa's realization of Clare's motivation was far more then a simple realization. It totally changed both characters and in fact was the close to, if not the, defining moment in both of there lives. Teresa went from being a hate full women, scornful of her being betrayed by loved ones and sold into a horrible existence devoid of any real human connection. To being a loving mother figure to an injured and beyond abused child desperate for someone to understand her. For Teresa it was this moment that caused her to drop her emotional guard and let Clare in. The best part being Teresa wasn't just being kind to some kid, she needed the bond as much as Clare did, it saved both of them.

Orsay pretty much said that he thought Teresa would kill a human one day but he didn't say he thought that she would because of her connecting with Clare. He believed she was on a self destructive path and would become a murderer if the situation didn't change some how. It could even be argued that Orsay didn't even realize Teresa's motivation for killing all the bandits until Teresa told him that from now on she was going to live for the child.

Now as for that moment being the defining moment in Clare's life is a bit harder to argue since she's had so much tragedy in her life. Logically though, gaining someone in ones life is just as important as them dying and leaving the person to move on or stay trapped in the past. Though in situations like Clare's it's a balancing act of being trapped by the past and moving on (which drives home Teresa's importance to Clare and yet her need for another connection). Clare truly gained Teresa on that night and lost her soon after. Which probably made those blissful moments all the more important to her.
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Old 2009-11-27, 06:00   Link #154
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I really don't see the distinction you see. At all.

I think you are right on target with your description of what happened in Teresa and Clare scene.

My point was that in Raki and Clare scene the exact same thing happened.

At the beginning of the series, Clare is shown JUST like Teresa: cold and apathetic, not capable of developing a bond with another human being, not having anyone who cares about her, hardly having anything to live for. She does show some interest and a little bit of care towards Raki, but until that scene it really is not much.

Quote:
Raki charging in to save Clare
He isn't charging in to save Clare. He is charging in to die with Clare. And because of that Clare as a person is completely turned, from an emotionless killer with nothing to live for, to someone to whom a connection with another person now means everything and gives her enough strength to do something that was supposed to be impossible. The power of the scene is not in Clare's life being saved (though it certainly adds to it). It's in Clare becoming a human.

Teresa and Clare is just a copy of Clare and Raki. Again, a cold emotionless shell with nothing to live for, who suddenly is overcome with human warmth because someone was willing to go through hell for her. In fact, when I first watched the series, this scene didn't affect me much because it felt like the exact same thing over again.
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:18   Link #155
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If you're talking about the cathedral scene, where Clare is asking Galk to behead her and Raki rushes in and hugs her wanting to "Romeo and Juliet" die together, and because Clare loved Raki so much, she would not let anything kill Raki, not even her awakening...

That is how you display a Romeo and Juliet moment that isn't lame like shakespeare did, hehe.

I actually loved this (Raki and Clare in the cathedral) scene a lot too. It has as much going on as the Clare and Teresa scene of....

Teresa: "This little girl, half my size, taught me that, tears can flow from silver eyes as well"

it just isn't as openly noticible of how major a scene it is and all that is going on in it.

........

or are you talking about when Raki fights with Ophelia?

i'm not sure what scene you're talking about... lol
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:21   Link #156
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Yea cathedral scene.

Quote:
because Clare loved Raki so much, she would not let anything kill Raki, not even her awakening...
I would actually not interpret it that way. After all, Clare could just tell Galk to tear Raki away from her and then behead her. Or she could use her willpower to push Raki away herself and kill herself, which should after all be much easier than overcoming the awakening altogether. But it is only now she realises how much Raki loves her and suddenly her life is filled with meaning which makes her even want to overcome the awakening.

BTW later when it was shown that Miria, Deneve and Helen overcame their awakening pretty mundanely, I felt this scene was strongly devaluated. But there's a big enough gap betweeb these two scenes so they don't interfere too much ^^
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:26   Link #157
HegemonKhan
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ah good i did get the scene right


and besides....

This is what-when Clare was made-became a Half Awaken !!!!!! (when she got her much greater power, lol)

and all because of Raki and their love for each other !!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

another thing that made the cathedral scene so great.....

how many stories do you know of where the main protagonist hero asks someone (Galk) to and is about to be decapitated ? .... LOL

It was a total surprise and shock, to be thinking WTF, the main character is going to be killed just a "few" chapters into the manga (or the 4th episode of the anime) !!!!

in shakespeare's work, the Romeo and Juliet death scene is at the END of the story, not the beginning, like in Claymore manga/anime, lol.

that was so way cool !!!

Last edited by HegemonKhan; 2009-11-27 at 13:37.
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:35   Link #158
Ryus
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Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
I really don't see the distinction you see. At all.

I think you are right on target with your description of what happened in Teresa and Clare scene.

My point was that in Raki and Clare scene the exact same thing happened.
Sorry but Clare opened up to Raki long before that scene. Depending on your point of view it either happened at the end of chapter 1 when Raki confessed how he felt and opened up to Clare. Giving her the necessary motivation to accept Raki as more then just another random person and someone she could care about. The other scene being chapter 11 when Raki opens up to Clare again and tells her that he'd rather die with her then be with out her, which is clearly the same thing taken to the next level. Not only did it save her from a fate she viewed as worse then death but it let her drop her emotion guard with Raki.

True, Raki doing this again helped Clare open up to Raki even more but it's part of a long series of events that saved both Clare and Raki, when that Teresa/Clare moment is a singular event that changed both of there lives.

I guess my main point being, IMHO, your making the 4th event in a series into the end all of the chain of events. One being Raki following Clare and seeing past her yoma side, Two being Raki confessing his feeling to Clare, Three being Raki begging to die with Clare when she was about to awaken. Sure there where other little things like Raki taking on Cid when he insulted Clare but I view those as more of reminders of Raki's desire to be with Clare forever than events that truly caused Clare to let Raki in. The next event being there parting kiss and the final two being Clare finding the girl who told Clare about the statue of the twin goddesses and lastly her seeing Raki's carving of it on the wall.

If you change the list from being events that caused Clare to open up to Raki to events that showed Raki's commitment to Clare. I personally view Raki asking for training from Isley as another key event and Raki being undaunted by Renee logical argument that Clare must be dead as another.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
At the beginning of the series, Clare is shown JUST like Teresa: cold and apathetic, not capable of developing a bond with another human being, not having anyone who cares about her, hardly having anything to live for. She does show some interest and a little bit of care towards Raki, but until that scene it really is not much.
Clare wasn't just like Teresa. There were some major differences. First off Clare's attitude towards the common folk wasn't that of pure distain like Teresa but more of a guard against them hurting her. It's a big difference.

Teresa was always purposely scaring the villagers both with her actions and words. Clare on the other hand never verbally tried to scare anyone let alone throw swords at them, fling yoma blood at them, or hitting children who followed her. Teresa also seemed to enjoy extorting money from the villagers for killing the final yoma, when Clare would kill all the yoma and then let the org handle the price negotiations. Clare also would risk her life twice to save villagers before her backup arrived knowing she didn't exactly have the power Teresa did... Would Teresa have done the same? (Rhetorical question)

I agree Teresa was cold and apathetic (assuming you mean apathetic as in... not interested or concerned; indifferent or unresponsive and not it's other definition... having or showing little or no emotion) when Clare is aloof, on guard, and unemotional... or at least emotionally stunted.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
He isn't charging in to save Clare. He is charging in to die with Clare. And because of that Clare as a person is completely turned, from an emotionless killer with nothing to live for, to someone to whom a connection with another person now means everything and gives her enough strength to do something that was supposed to be impossible. The power of the scene is not in Clare's life being saved (though it certainly adds to it). It's in Clare becoming a human.
I do view Raki as having the underlying motivation of dying with Clare as a cause from him to jump into the fray but I don't see it as his end all cause for taking on Ophelia. Raki previously charged a yoma, he is offensive in nature but he also realizes his limitations. IMHO, Raki jumping into the fight was more to do with him not being able to stand idly by, then a consciously realizing both of them where doomed. His comment about Ophelia failing to harm him indicated that he was fighting to give Clare a chance to recover then die with her. Maybe he believed he would die to give her that chance but that is unstated and is speculation at best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vantek View Post
Teresa and Clare is just a copy of Clare and Raki. Again, a cold emotionless shell with nothing to live for, who suddenly is overcome with human warmth because someone was willing to go through hell for her. In fact, when I first watched the series, this scene didn't affect me much because it felt like the exact same thing over again.
Teresa wasn't emotionless, she was scornful and filled with hate and disgust. Clare isn't emotionless either she's just emotionally stunted (buried her emotions deep inside), Clare has had her emotions and reactions break through the surface before and will again. Teresa needed saving from herself when Clare needed a reminder of a human connection to live for. Clare still did have her revenge drive, so she did have a logical reason of something to live for. However without a human connection her revenge drive was being diluted by the pains of being alone. To me Raki reinvigorated her revenge drive and reminded her of why life was worth living. That is very different from Teresa needing to be saved from her own course of actions.

Both needed saving and both received there salvation from an unexpected source... a helpless child. For Clare dealing with a child served a double purpose, salvation and it also forced her to confront her past. However why they needed saving and how each child saved them aren't comparable on a psychological level but there minor similarities. Which actually help and hinder Clare, reminders of the past force her to confront them but she hasn't exactly taken the head on approach. Also the actions of the children themselves aren't comparable. Clare mentioned that what she hated the most was that she was too scare to do anything for Teresa, yet Raki has risked life and limb twice for Clare... once to die with her and once to save her (maybe die with her as you said, though I disagree on that point).

Your right that the scene is very important... I just wish it had shown Clare's thoughts of seeing a young boy risking life and limb to save her. Especially since he just did the one thing for her that she wished she had done for Teresa. If that had been included, rather then just as surprise in Clare's eyes, I have no doubt that scene would have made my favorite list. However I just feel that the scene failed to follow through with it's potential. All the logic for the scenes importance is there but it failed to have the truly deep emotional connection that other scenes had.
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:37   Link #159
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Quote:
another thing that mde the cathedral scene so great.....

how many stories do you know of where the main protagonist hero asks someone (Galk) to and is about to be decapitated ? .... LOL

It was a total surprise and shock, to be thinking WTF, the main character is going to be killed just a "few" chapters into the manga (or the 4th episode of the anime) !!!!
Yes, I feel Claymore is one of the very few stories where the main charachter(s) constantly escape huge danger, but yet you feel the danger is real every time, and it's the charachters' insurmountable persistence despite overwhelming odds that gives them the victory, not mere author's whim.

EDIT: Umm, Ryus, it seems you've been thinking I was talking about Ophelia scene all this time? LOL, sorry I should have been more clear >< I assumed everyone considered the cathedral scene as the most important between Raki and Clare, didn't realise it's possible to take it in another way...

Ophelia scene was just a cool scene, where Raki showed he's not nearly as big of a pussy as people might have thought. Like you, I didn't feel it was very emotional or pivotal in the development of charachters.

But did you feel the cathedral scene was even less important then? I mean if you excluded the possibility that I was talking about that scene, you must have thought even less of it than the Ophelia scene?

And BTW Ophelia scene actually DOES show up on people's favourite scene lists hehe.

Quote:
Teresa wasn't emotionless, she was scornful and filled with hate and disgust.
I mean she had no meaning in her life or nothing to live for. If she was on the way of becoming a murderer, then it would have only been a consequence of that.

Clare didn't have anything live for either. Except revenge, but I suspect you'll agree that is a very cold and depressing purpose, not comparable to having a strong bond with another person.

Both charachters in their respective scenes had the love of a child completely turn them around and fill their empty lives with purpose. In Clare's case, this was further escalated by it giving her strength to do something that was considered impossible and come back from awakening. And her scene was first in the story as well. Yet people love Teresa+Clare scene but don't seem to even mention Clare+Raki scene (in the cathedral, that is ><), which I find disturbing, as it seems to stem from some lame medieval social rules that males shouldn't show affection.

Quote:
However why they needed saving and how each child saved them aren't comparable on a psychological level but there minor similarities.
I felt the reasons were effectively the same on a psychological level and there were minor differences

Quote:
Also the actions of the children themselves aren't comparable. Clare mentioned that what she hated the most was that she was too scare to do anything for Teresa , yet Raki has risked life and limb twice for Clare...
Clare followed Teresa until she was so weak that she was about to collapse, and walked off a cliff. Because she wanted to comfort her. I think that counts as doing quite a bit. Besides, she also attacked a bandit for Teresa, against whom she was completely powerless... And faced the consequences in form of severe beating... Yet even during that she was worried about Teresa, not herself.

Seriously I don't understand how you make such a big difference between Teresa+Clare and Clare+Raki! They're VERY similar!

Last edited by Vantek; 2009-11-27 at 14:20.
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Old 2009-11-27, 13:44   Link #160
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Yup, the cathedral scene is one of my favourite too.

Another good one to me, or at least an emotionnal one, is the flashback of the aftermath of the battle of Pieta where we see Miria crying. It was the first time time we saw Miria display self-doubt and vulnerability, when she had been everyone's pillar of strength till that point.
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