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Old 2008-01-31, 12:55   Link #1
siya
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Time Travel- A Possiblity of the Future?

I've been seeing alot of threads on topics of torture, death, life, etc....So while on those I got to thinking of things that are complicated to the mind and what not, and time travel was one of those. So I figure it would be a good topic to talk about (though it probably wont go anywhere...xD).

I would like to know your opinons on time travel as to wheather you believe it's possible, if it's a good or a bad thing, and your opinions in general (If you could, try to have a logical explination to your opinion, you don't have too, but it will help all of us understand your point of view as to why you belive in what ever your opinoion is.

Now, there is nothing saying that time travel is impossible, but it would in fact be incredible difficult. To time travel, you would have to create a ripple in space in time, which when I first started really thinking into this, I immediatly thought of a black whole. The gravitational pull is so strong that the close you get the more time slows down. This is not time travel though, all that's happening is that you have more time in which to do something. Now, with a spinning black whole it is said that it can send you to another galaxies as appointed to where ever it ends. Now, since blackwholes gravetational force slows down time, whats not to say that the ripple in which it is could be going through time. Now, to create a machine to do this would be dangerous due to the fact that the pull is so strong in would rip our bodies to pecies....I also tried to think of what wormholes could do. Wormholes are bassically a ripple in space that make a distance shorter and moves what ever quicker uppon entering almost in a split second. This ripple as well could be a ripple though time...Whos not to say it's not? Now, the problem with time travel (if you ask me), time is like layers of things. For every choice, the future is change (though in this case, time is relevent so to the people in the future it's there present and were there past....but yea.). So bassically everything that has happend in our lives has happend in many different ways. Think of it like this. Say I were to kill a massive ammount of people, go back in time and stop myself from killing those people by killing myself as a baby (note this is just an example...I would never kill myself xD), well with in due time when those people where to die, the wouldn't die because I was not there to kill them. They died, but the change of events happend so it's as if it never happend.

Now, if you ask me, I think the military probably has things on time travel. They could of easily changed history many times. You can say they haven't, but you can't say that and absoultly know for sure. Why? Because if they did change history, we wouldn't know about it. We could of lived through what ever it is they changed, but if they changed it, it's as if it never happend and we wouldn't remember it because there would be nothing to remember. Only the people that went back in time and changed it would know because they were the ones who made the chage and were on effected by the change because they were not there at the time the chage happend. By changeing these events, you change the Spacetime- continuum. Spacetime is used to describe an event at the exact time and place. Now these "layers" in which I'm talking about could bassically be called demintions. So the key to getting time travel would not only take haveing to make a ripple in time and space, but also having to move through a series of "layers" in order to get to where you want to go.

Now, there are many dangers with time travel...My friends think "Well yea, some body could use it to take over the world by changing history." I'm thinking more along the lines of "No, the ripple in time in space could cause an after math of a gravitational pull, and the more it sits there the stronger it gets, and this gravitational pull could casue a blackwhole. Which would indoubtebly cause the end of the world." At first it would start from one part of the world, not being able to make phone calls from...lets say Indiana to Texas. Say Texas is closer to the blackwhole then Indiana. This means that the time in Texas is moving slower then the time in Indiana. So say you were standing near someone that was closer to the black whole then you. You could scream "HOE MAH GOSH I LOVE YOU!" The person might not here it untill a minute later after you said it, and you would hear it more as an eco. From there, gravity would strengthen, and it would just be a disater, but you get my point.

Now, obviously there are many flaws in my theroy, and I encourage everyone to give there on opinions, that way everyone can read everyone elses and perhaps change theres to accually work better.
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Old 2008-01-31, 12:58   Link #2
felix
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See: Haruhi Forum; There was a thread there with more then enough discussion on the subject. I think your pushing for discussion.
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Old 2008-01-31, 12:59   Link #3
siya
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cats View Post
See: Haruhi Forum
There was a thread there with more then enough discussion on the subject.
Haruhi Forum?

So then there was another thread just like this.....-_-....Why does search never show up with anything when I search for it..
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Old 2008-01-31, 13:09   Link #4
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Can we talk dimensional travel or anything else.
Do you believe in Hyperspace for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by siya View Post
Wormholes are bassically a ripple in space that make a distance shorter and moves what ever quicker uppon entering almost in a split second. This ripple as well could be a ripple though time...
I take Worm Hole A and pass it through B which is the exit of A. Where is A?

edit 7: you know if we continue changing the content of out posts every 3 sec it's really going to turn into interdenominational travel thread all by itself.
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Last edited by felix; 2008-01-31 at 13:19.
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Old 2008-01-31, 14:40   Link #5
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Um, here... I suggest taking a few physics courses or reading some excellent laybooks by people like Brian Greene, Carl Sagan, Penrose, Deutsche, Hawkings, etc. Most of them discuss the physics of time travel far better than I could summarize.

Very quick notes: *
reverse-time travel is completely equivalent to faster-than-light travel which appears to be impossible because of the infinite energy required to hit light speed though some people wave their arms postulating a "tunneling" effect somewhat like electron tunneling (skipping positions or speeds).
*Forward-time travel is easier -- just go a substantial fraction of light speed.
*Time measurement itself is relative to a non-accelerated frame of reference.
*There are a lot of quantum measurements that can be explained in several ways - one of which is that the particle is moving backwards in time (or at least that is one interpretation of the math and the measurements).... but quantum behavior averages out of view as the collection of particles being observed increases.
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Old 2008-01-31, 14:44   Link #6
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No, because what people percieve as "time" is nothing more than movement of particles at high speed. There is no physical way to reverse movement and make everything in the universe move backward, undevelop, etc. Time is relative to the speed and movement of the observer, so really time travel I would say, is impossible.
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Old 2008-01-31, 16:45   Link #7
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Grandfather paradox at work. If you go back in time and kill your grandfather so that you were never born and then go back to your time, you'd never be born so you couldn't have gone back in time to kill your grandfather, can you?

And if it just creates an alternate timeline, then WTF is the point? Not like yours changes.
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Old 2008-01-31, 17:31   Link #8
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I don't believe time travel will ever be possible, time will always move forward it's a sure thing.

If time travel was even possible, humanity couldn't be trusted with it.
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Old 2008-01-31, 23:32   Link #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demongod86 View Post
Grandfather paradox at work. If you go back in time and kill your grandfather so that you were never born and then go back to your time, you'd never be born so you couldn't have gone back in time to kill your grandfather, can you?

And if it just creates an alternate timeline, then WTF is the point? Not like yours changes.
Even if one could only go to an alternate timeline, I'd still like to do it. It'd be the best tourist experience ever . (You could see everything from the earliest life forms, mammal-like reptiles before dinosaurs, dinosaurs, hominids, all of human history... so many possibilities!)
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Old 2008-01-31, 23:57   Link #10
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I strongly condemn time traveling, it will cause more evil that the possibility of "good" that it can bring.
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Old 2008-02-01, 00:09   Link #11
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It is possible if a couple of millenniums but we're dead when that time happens(unless you can keep cloning ur self indefinitely and have the same memory)
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Old 2008-02-01, 02:59   Link #12
teachopvutru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Um, here... I suggest taking a few physics courses or reading some excellent laybooks by people like Brian Greene, Carl Sagan, Penrose, Deutsche, Hawkings, etc. Most of them discuss the physics of time travel far better than I could summarize.

Very quick notes: *
reverse-time travel is completely equivalent to faster-than-light travel which appears to be impossible because of the infinite energy required to hit light speed though some people wave their arms postulating a "tunneling" effect somewhat like electron tunneling (skipping positions or speeds).
*Forward-time travel is easier -- just go a substantial fraction of light speed.
*Time measurement itself is relative to a non-accelerated frame of reference.
*There are a lot of quantum measurements that can be explained in several ways - one of which is that the particle is moving backwards in time (or at least that is one interpretation of the math and the measurements).... but quantum behavior averages out of view as the collection of particles being observed increases.
I haven't taken a physic class yet (except for half a year in 8th grade, which the only thing I took out of was 'everything is made of matter') so my questions my sound strange (or possibly even illogical) but...

Hmmm... I have always thought traveling to the future is easer as well (since, if we travel to the past, it would turn into a time loop, right? ), but what I'm wondering is how it is possible if the future hasn't been created yet? Would the time-travelers somehow land on the an alternative reality and the alternative they do on the future somehow serves at a reference point for the present to lead to?

Does the movement of light produce energy? If not, why does it take so much energy to reach that speed?

Weeks ago, there was a thread about the 10th dimension, and the video on that threads holds the possibility of time traveling at the 5th and 6th dimensions (or at least, that's what I've taken out of it). But time isn't static so what triggers the movement of time in the first place?


As for my thought about time-traveling, I disprove that idea as well. I maybe ignorance since I haven't hear about the theory behind it but it doesn't sound safe and will complicate things even more. I'd rather hope time-traveling is possible if you only can 1)Have absolutely no alternation on it except having a sight (so maybe in a way of camera or something) and 2)Can only see the past.

Plus, since the present always link with the past and the future, and the past and future link together, the result is an infinite amount of "interconnected points" and "interconnected lines" linking together, so wouldn't you need to break those "lines" first?

Offtopic: I much prefer dimensional travel, like in Doraemon, the door that takes you to somewhere else instantly (within 10 years of light speed, if I remember correctly), but only getting around Earth is enough (as long as we don't just suddenly fall into the Ocean, jungle, near volcano as it's about to erupt, etc. unless wanted to, although I don't see how anyone wish to fall into the last one).

EDIT: @siya: speaking of Doraemon, then it's possible that you will end up unable to kill your grandfather no matter what, and somewhere along the way when you grow up, you would have probably (or would not) heard his story about someone trying to kill you. And while speaking of anime, I'm kinda remind of Shana where Denizens withdraw PoE from humans and create distortions. So as an alternate form that's similar to that story, then maybe you would be able to kill him, the you still exists, but there ends up to be a "hole" in the flow of event, creating "distortion" in time. There may wind up to be an occupation in the future to handle that sort of stuff.

PS: Anime vs. Time-Traveling FTW
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Last edited by teachopvutru; 2008-02-01 at 03:13.
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Old 2008-02-01, 03:13   Link #13
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Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Hmmm... I have always thought traveling to the future is easer as well (since, if we travel to the past, it would turn into a time loop, right? ), but what I'm wondering is how it is possible if the future hasn't been created yet? Would the time-travelers somehow land on the an alternative reality and the alternative they do on the future somehow serves at a reference point for the present to lead to?
You're not literally traveling to the future, just your relative time is passing slower than the rest, if you are traveling at sub-light speed.

Check out Top o Nerae! Gunbuster series if you wanna see a good sci-fi representation of the effect.
Oh, and it has bouncing boobs. Which is always good.
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Old 2008-02-01, 03:25   Link #14
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Time is relative to the speed and movement of the observer, so really time travel I would say, is impossible.
That and the fact that if you could travel back in time we would already know, since there would be at least one person wanting to solve all the problems of today with tomorrow's technology. And if you wanted to travel forwards in time... Isn't that what we all are doing now?
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Old 2008-02-01, 06:40   Link #15
teachopvutru
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
You're not literally traveling to the future, just your relative time is passing slower than the rest, if you are traveling at sub-light speed.
Please elaborate... not that I understand but shouldn't the relative time passes faster? (relativity to what, btw? )

Also, since Vexx said "Time measurement itself is relative to a non-accelerated frame of reference.", and it kinda made me think of videos, so... in the real world, (if it works that way) how many frames are in a seconds?
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Old 2008-02-01, 07:03   Link #16
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I think many movies and shows like Back to the Future and Futurama have discussed this idea and you must go back and watch them. Also according to general relativity time travel is impossible. Einstein proved it. However many people do agree that general relativity is still incomplete and that a quantum relativity theory is needed.
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Old 2008-02-01, 07:32   Link #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiachopvutru View Post
Please elaborate... not that I understand but shouldn't the relative time passes faster? (relativity to what, btw? )

Also, since Vexx said "Time measurement itself is relative to a non-accelerated frame of reference.", and it kinda made me think of videos, so... in the real world, (if it works that way) how many frames are in a seconds?
It's not that difficult, first of all we need to keep in mind

Rule #1 Speed of light is constant;

now let's say we entrap a ray of light between paired mirror which becomes

Rule#2 The distant between mirrors is constant

and that ray of light is bouncing between mirrors so the time for that ray of light to reach one mirror to the other is the same under any condition.

Ok, now let's place that paired mirror in a space ship that travels 90% the speed of light.
As an observer inside the spaceship, light is bouncing between the pair of mirrors. The distant between the pair of mirrors are the same and the time for the ray of light to reach one mirror is the same but if an observer standing still out side the spaceship were to witness the same event as the spaceship passes by him, since the space ship is moving at 90% the speed of light, the light seems to be moving diagonally with the horizontal vector of the moving spaceship and the vertical vector of the ray light combined in the same time frame.
This breaks the first rule in which speed of light is always constant under any condition. The only way to remedy this paradox is hypothesize that time elapse slower within the space ship then the time out side the spaceship.
This is what is know as the Lorentz transformation converting between two different observers' measurements of space and time.

This is all explained through Einstein's special relativity theory, for more information go to link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_relativity
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Old 2008-02-01, 08:04   Link #18
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Possibility of time travel, well since we still have no idea what time really is, I don't think we will have any answers to that question.

There are interesting hypothesis under special conditions such as, if we were able to find a worm hole that was made back in time and we were to travel through that worm hole then we will be able to travel back to the time when the worm hole was first created.

In terms of can we travel back is an interesting question but what is more fascinating is, what will we find?
All matter of this time-space continuum is moving on a linear motion. If something was to move out of our time-space to travel back in time, we will witness it to have vanished with a big thundering noise as air gushes into the space where that something had once occupied but since all other matter within our time-space continuum is accounted for when that something reaches it's destination there should be nothing there since all matter had already moved out from that time frame.
This is my understanding anyways.
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Old 2008-02-01, 08:15   Link #19
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Okay.. i don't think we will be able to go back properly, because if we do we would see people who are dead?

Interesting topic btw but I am no scientist so i don't really get it.
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Old 2008-02-01, 12:38   Link #20
Vexx
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Time is an illusion we "experience" as measured by "change of physical state"

We measure/experience time by observing change of physical state. Why?

I could pull an anthropic principle (caution: bullshit incoming) -- that consciousness can only exist in a state whereby physical state change is perceived by stepping along the time vector. In other words, we exist the way we are because no other experience of the universe works.

There's no meaning to the idea that a consciousness could experience the totality of space-time unless one postulates some sort of pseudo-time vector at right angles to the other four vectors of phase state.

Right... now pardon me while I go shower off the cowdung I've just rolled in...
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