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Old 2008-02-06, 11:29   Link #21
Shikimori Kazuki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantasmagoria View Post
My goodness, I don't find any of the above anime mentioned sad, depressing or painful.
Is there something wrong with me?

Elfen Lied had the most effect. Kannazuki no Miko comes in later in the series though.

Fate/Stay Night is one of the anime I barely laughed at all. I label it "depressing."
you are too cold-hearted. I advise you go see a doctor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by qtipbrit92
Because we all know how it ends! And because the anime really wasn't that great.
When you say all, it does not mean everyone here has watched Romeo x Juliet, that applies for the person who made this thread. Different people has different opinions about animes. I say is good and you say is bad. We don't know if he/she will like it or not. We're just recommending what we find best suit its category. Please don't go saying what people recommending say is bad. They are their using their personal time like you to try to think of something to recommend to the person.
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Old 2008-02-06, 11:33   Link #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Just because someone wasn't as affected by a series as you did doesn't mean they "didn"t understand" it.
I will have to disagree here. Although I do agree that for most series, you can understand it yet not be as affected by it as another, but for Elfen Lied specifically, I think you don't like it then you didn't understand the true message the director was trying to convey. Now, I didn't say that you're stupid, because you don't have to understand the series the way the director wants you to, since everyone can have different perceptions of the series, because it's somewhat up for grab. This series is just special.
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Old 2008-02-06, 11:48   Link #23
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Well the OP said sad, depressing, or painful, so:

Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora: sad
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien: sad
SaiKano: depressing
Romeo x Juliet: Er ? semi-painful?
Elfen Lied: sad/painful
Byousoku 5 Centimetre: painful/depressing
Mushishi: sad
Chrno Crusade: sad

And also, I still consider the first 130 some off episodes of Naruto one of the best, maybe 9/10 on my list.
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Old 2008-02-06, 12:10   Link #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I will have to disagree here. Although I do agree that for most series, you can understand it yet not be as affected by it as another, but for Elfen Lied specifically, I think you don't like it then you didn't understand the true message the director was trying to convey. Now, I didn't say that you're stupid, because you don't have to understand the series the way the director wants you to, since everyone can have different perceptions of the series, because it's somewhat up for grab. This series is just special.
I can't see how people must always be affected by the same emotions due to scripters message.
As far as I know, we are unique to the point that values and such are very relative and personal.
It is as relative as comedy and such: i don't see how people must be affected by the same emotion if they understood the same thing. Many people could feel the message about war with saikano, but that doesn't mean they will all be struck by depression and such, as it is very personal to see about such things.
Same goes for elfen lied.

Message and emotions don't equate to the same reaction at all.

furthermore, it isn't anything about "if Elfen Lied is depressing or not", but here: how it is compared to the Grave of the Fireflies.
I just can't see how someone can say someone else "didn't get it" because the said person felt the later was more depressing than the former.
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Old 2008-02-06, 12:14   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I can't see how people must always be affected by the same emotions due to scripters message.
As far as I know, we are unique to the point that values and such are very relative and personal.
It is as relative as comedy and such: i don't see how people must be affected by the same emotion if they understood the same thing.

Message and emotions don't equate to the same reaction at all.
That is because I interpreted this as not an emotion. Elfen Lied doesn't hit me as being good for blood, gore, sadness, depression, comedy, romance, or any of those related genres. It is basically a semi-documentary that just explains, and the sadness/blood/gore is just a bonus for people to enjoy it. For me, not being affected if you truely understand it is very similar to watching an explicit documentary about war and act like you've seen it all your life.
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Old 2008-02-06, 12:30   Link #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I will have to disagree here. Although I do agree that for most series, you can understand it yet not be as affected by it as another, but for Elfen Lied specifically, I think you don't like it then you didn't understand the true message the director was trying to convey. Now, I didn't say that you're stupid, because you don't have to understand the series the way the director wants you to, since everyone can have different perceptions of the series, because it's somewhat up for grab. This series is just special.
Sorry, but i don't see how understanding The Messagetm of a show and actually liking said show are two mutually connected things. I can't even stress on how many levels such a point doesn't make sense to me. If anything your claim comes off as somewhat arrogant to me. There is no such thing as automatic enjoyment of a series as soon as you obtain enlightenment about the message of a show. The two are completely different things. And Elfen Lied, while being a show i enjoyed greatly, is no exception to this. It isn't "just special" in the way you want to make it out to be. "Getting" something is a process of perception and analysis of what was presented. "Liking" what was presented is something completely else, influenced by many things that don't even have to be tied to some universal logic necessarily.

Going by that i should have a high opinion on everything i have watched (which is clearly not the case), because i am fairly sure i "got" what the director wanted to say. What if i simply didn't like what he had to say ? What if i didn't like the way it was presented ? See: now i have a reason to "dislike" the show, even if i got the message. Show is made up of a number of elements that supplement each other and in the end form the full picture which is what you get, and how the show is exposed to you. The Message is just one thing among all the elements.
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Old 2008-02-06, 12:41   Link #27
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Sorry, but i don't see how understanding The Messagetm of a show and actually liking said show are two mutually connected things. I can't even stress on how many levels such a point doesn't make sense to me. If anything your claim comes off as somewhat arrogant to me. There is no such thing as automatic enjoyment of a series as soon as you obtain enlightenment about the message of a show. The two are completely different things. And Elfen Lied, while being a show i enjoyed greatly, is no exception to this. It isn't "just special" in the way you want to make it out to be. "Getting" something is a process of perception and analysis of what was presented. "Liking" what was presented is something completely else, influenced by many things that don't even have to be tied to some universal logic necessarily.
Perhaps I didn't say it clearly in the first post, so I retract the comment about liking. I already said that you can perceive it differently, and that's fine, but if you do, then that's not The Messagetm now, is it? I'm not claiming anything, but rather, to summarize, my point was about being affected by it in some way. As hesitant as I am to compare this anime to School Days, it provides a perfect example to what I mean. Do I like School Days? Not really. Do I get the message? Yes. In fact, I think everyone got it, but it was a much less obscure message. Everyone who watched School Days that I talked to were affected by it.

And of course, everyone is a useless term because it's inaccurate. Let us assume that everyone = almost everyone to the point where its difference is insignificantly minimal.

If I get a reply along the lines of "not everyone will like an anime even if they understood it," then I will give up this discussion because I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt and say that I can't articulate my thoughts into words on this subject.
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Old 2008-02-06, 14:17   Link #28
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Honey and Clover was kinda sad at times.
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Old 2008-02-06, 15:20   Link #29
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Like some people here suggested, Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora (looking up at the half-moon) is one of the sadest and depressing animes, i have ever seen.
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Old 2008-02-06, 16:16   Link #30
Ichihara Asako
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Going by that i should have a high opinion on everything i have watched (which is clearly not the case), because i am fairly sure i "got" what the director wanted to say. What if i simply didn't like what he had to say ? What if i didn't like the way it was presented ?
Exactly. I dislike Evangelion, even though I "get it" -- I simply didn't like the way it was presented, you put it in better words than I can generally be bothered trying to explain to rabid fans though. ^^;

As for series that are supposed to be sad/depressing, Kimi ga Nozomu Eien was supposed to be really emotionally moving, but I just found the story boring and the characters (especially Takayuki) to be very dislikeable. Yet I enjoyed School Days, despite hating the characters, because of the beautiful ending. The series itself was very mediocre, or even sub-par, but was built entirely to support the brilliant conclusion.

Air is another series that people claim is sad/depressing, but I wasn't moved by it at all either. It was pretty, and a nice story, but certainly didn't make me tear up as everybody had 'guaranteed' it would.

It's a simple matter of people's tastes differing. Just because some or most people are moved by something doesn't mean everybody will be. I could go in to some long rant about why this may be the case due to life experience, expectations of the story and more, but, there's no real point since that is going pretty far off topic.

So I'll just say, I'm somebody who has never been scared by an anime, regardless of how horrific or frightening it's supposed to be. I've very, very rarely been brought to tears by any story (and teary moments for me are often different to most people's anyway) and I've never been left depressed or gloomy over a series, either. It actually surprises me when people say they do get like that. At most for me I'll be disappointed a series is over, but it doesn't take much to move on and find something else to fill the gap.

Basically, everyone is different. You can't say somebody "doesn't get it" if they don't enjoy it. I hear that all the goddamn time from Eva fans. It's a simple matter of taste... which has countless factors contributing to it.
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Old 2008-02-06, 17:48   Link #31
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Wow dang... let's start from the beginning. When I said Digital Boy didn't understand it... it was mostly because he said it was too "showy". Now I thought he meant something along the lines of the gore and nudity. But not only that.... Kholdstare, what you said about having to get the director's message to understand it. I'll sorta have to disagree there.
Spoiler for elfen lied:
It was just things like these that he obviously didn't understand.
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Old 2008-02-06, 19:04   Link #32
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Just to add a show to the original question:

Wolf's rain is at the same time very beautiful and quite sad, depressing.
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Old 2008-02-06, 19:39   Link #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reno View Post
Wow dang... let's start from the beginning. When I said Digital Boy didn't understand it... it was mostly because he said it was too "showy". Now I thought he meant something along the lines of the gore and nudity. But not only that.... Kholdstare, what you said about having to get the director's message to understand it. I'll sorta have to disagree there.
Spoiler for elfen lied:
It was just things like these that he obviously didn't understand.
No no, the converse isn't always true for all logic. The only thing I will say about this is you don't have to understand anything to enjoy anime period. I'm sorry I brought this up, so let's just drop it can we?
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Old 2008-02-06, 20:28   Link #34
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Oh my god, there's no WAY I can let this go. Didn't understand Elfen Lied?! As if it were so complicated that I need a fucking college degree to get it! Believe me, I understood it just fine and it made pretty much the same mistake as Uta Kata did in fucking itself over (though thank god it was so much better than Uta Kata) Elfen Lied just doesn't do what it wants to in a good way. The blend of slice-of-life and violence and use of tragedy to make you sympathize with the characters just wasn't handled well. Everything in that show is a bit forced because it is essentially showing you an obvious gimmick and then spending the entire show trying to get you to believe it isn't a gimmick. And I'll give them credit, they got me to at least give a damn, and I thought it was a pretty good show, but it's not like it was great.

No! Don't try to say this wasn't the director's intent, because yes, he DID want to show you something, he just straight-up didn't do it well. That's all there is to it. There IS a defining line between good and bad directors (Shinbo = good, guy who did Touka Gettan = bad) and this guy is just in the middle. It could have been much better, but the bottom line is the guy isn't good enough. There's nothing more to wrap your brain around or anything.

Reno, there is NOTHING wrong with excessive nudity (This Ugly Yet BEautiful World did it pretty well, despite not being a very good show) there is NOTHING wrong with excessive gore (Berserk, anyone?) and there's nothing wrong with combining them, you just have to do it right, and it wasn't done perfectly in Elfen Lied. That's my opinion anyway, and everyone has their own, because I'm sure there's plenty of people who have seen as much anime as I have and think Kannazuki no Miko is the bomb diggity while I'd rather get raped in the face then sit through that crap. But saying I didn't understand it has nothing to do with it. It's purely a matter of how I perceive what is good or bad.

And Elfen Lied didn't depress me simply because I didn't like Lucy. The way she would retreat to idiot mode at the right times bothered me because it meant the writer could use that device to carefully control the revelation of information, but it was just so blatant. There was also the way she acted (head down all the time) just not my kind of thing (which is surprising, cuz I love broken chicks) I liked Nana loads more and guess what? I thought the show had a really happy ending anyway. If you want to see what real characters are like, go watch Eureka Seven or ef, or even Lain and then come back to me.
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:04   Link #35
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@Deus ex Digital Boy: You understood Elfen Lied in a different say, and more power to you. Although once again, my point was not the direct correlation between understanding an anime and liking it; it's something else different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
Well the OP said sad, depressing, or painful, so:

Hanbun no Tsuki ga Noboru Sora: sad
Kimi ga Nozomu Eien: sad
SaiKano: depressing
Romeo x Juliet: Er ? semi-painful?
Elfen Lied: sad/painful
Byousoku 5 Centimetre: painful/depressing
Mushishi: sad
Chrno Crusade: sad

And also, I still consider the first 130 some off episodes of Naruto one of the best, maybe 9/10 on my list.
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Old 2008-02-06, 21:22   Link #36
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
@Deus ex Digital Boy: You understood Elfen Lied in a different say, and more power to you. Although once again, my point was not the direct correlation between understanding an anime and liking it; it's something else different.
i was very definitely not talking to you. Well, maybe somewhat.
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Old 2008-02-06, 22:58   Link #37
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
And also, I still consider the first 130 some off episodes of Naruto one of the best, maybe 9/10 on my list.

Yes! It's been a long time since I found someone with decent anime taste who agreed with me (meaning not crazed Naru-tards... sorry guys). Those first episodes were capable of some damn good, near tear-jerking drama at times.

As for my suggestion, I found Sola to a bit depressing because...
Spoiler for ending:
.

I also found some bits of Myself; Yourself to be a bit of a downer. Especially the somewhat tragic relationship between the two twins. Definitely worth a watch.
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Old 2008-02-06, 23:35   Link #38
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im sorry there is just no way i can pass-up on a good elfen lied debate. they are just to brutal to ignore....

first off, i think that you guys are analyzing this eries to much. its not poetic or deep in anyway. it not a series with hidden messages, everything is pretty clear cut. i would understand if you were argueing about don mclean's american pie song, becuase there are many hidden refrences and ambiguous meanings in the lyrics. but that fact is elfen lied just isn't peotic at all. i myself loved that series, and it on my top 3 list. i can see where both of you are coming from, but i also think its a matter of semantics...whether you liked it or not....wether it was to bloody or to graphic...whther the character designs were flawed or perfect....


so all it comes down to is prefrence...but in my opinion there is not other series that devasatingly depressing and painful. i think it was beautifully done...
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Old 2008-02-07, 09:29   Link #39
Supah Em
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people, there is a separate forum for elfen lied debate.


but EL is kinda sad especially in the end.

i also forgot to mention saikano, which was freakin painful.
sola because the ending is definitely more bitter than sweet to me.
some scenes in KGNE seem forced but its still sad (dont debate with me on this)
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Old 2008-02-07, 13:13   Link #40
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Originally Posted by KholdStare View Post
I'm sorry I brought this up, so let's just drop it can we?
Nono don't be sorry!! It was Digital Boy and I who started it. But, yeah, I can't be bothered to argue with him anymore. -_-
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